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Florida county gives taxpayer money to evangelical festival, sees nothing wrong with it.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-08 12:31 AM
Original message
Florida county gives taxpayer money to evangelical festival, sees nothing wrong with it.
The line has been crossed so often in this state between secular and religious, that they really don't know what they did is against the constitution. Or so they say.

Florida’s Constitution is explicit. It says:

“No revenue of the state or any political subdivision or agency thereof shall ever be taken from the public treasury directly or indirectly in aid of any church, sect, or religious denomination or in aid of any sectarian institution.”


Hernando County has also promised to provide taxpayer support for next year's festival.

Sour Note: Florida County Fails To Find Itself In Concert With The Constitution

Hernando County, Fla., officials saw no problem with allocating $5,000 in tax money to promote an event called the “Hernando Freedom Festival” in July. Local government officials are often eager to support events that might bring in tourist dollars, and this one attracted 15,000 people.

But it turns out that someone’s constitutional radar antenna was broken. This was no ordinary festival, and it should not have received taxpayer support. As the St. Petersburg Times has reported, “Hernando Freedom Festival” was sponsored by the Brooksville Ministerial Association. The event was evangelical in character and included a Christian concert.

..."Asked about the festival, Joseph Santerelli, head of the Ministerial Association, admitted that it was evangelical in character and then start spouting off the usual Religious Right nonsense about church-state separation not being in the Constitution and how all the founders were right-wing Christians and most people in the county are Christians. Blah, blah, blah.

A more coherent opinion was offered by Glenn Katon, director of the religious freedom project for the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida. Katon noted that both the U.S. Constitution and the Florida Constitution ban diversion of tax aid for religious purposes.


The head of the ministerial association said that most likely most of the people in the county were Christians anyway. That is a very strange and arrogant assumption.

Tax money helped pay for faith-based event in Hernando

Hernando's tourism bureau spent $5,000 in tourist tax revenue to sponsor the event through the Brooksville Ministerial Association. Last month, the Tourist Development Council agreed to allocate another $5,000 for the 2009 event. It was the largest allocation for any of the dozen local groups seeking tourism dollars to promote Hernando County.

The funding also stands out in another way: It may violate the Florida and U.S. Constitutions' language calling for the separation of church and state.


They just seem to ignore that the state constitution forbids such. They just excuse what they do.

"When there is not specific statute, the rule of 'public purpose' comes into play. The statutes are pretty gray in this respect and basically say that if the board determines in a public forum that an expenditure is a public purpose, then it is a legal expenditure,'' Gillis told the Times in an e-mail.

Even so, if the Clerk of the Circuit Court finds the public board's decision to be a stretch, it could be challenged, she said.


The ministerial head uses the claim that most in the county are Christian...

Joseph Santerelli, who heads the Ministerial Association, said that he didn't hesitate to ask for help from the tourism board. "I pay taxes,'' he said.

When he applied for the money this year, he said no one questioned the appropriateness of the funding. In fact, he said, "they were excited because of what they had already seen last year.''

Santerelli doesn't dispute the faith-based nature of the event. When questioned about the legal separation of church and state set out in the U.S. Constitution and legal opinions on the meaning of the so-called "establishment clause,'' Santerelli said the separation is not in the Constitution.
He went on to say that the country's governing documents were written by Christians, the country was founded by Christians, and the majority of Hernando County residents were likely Christians.

"Would you really want a complete separation of church and state?'' he asked.


Florida worries me with its lack of concern over keeping religion and secular issues separate. I feel it is being done deliberately and with knowledge it is not the right way to do things.

They keep pushing and pushing, just like they did with the Church State showdown over vouchers for private religious schools.

Jeb kept pushing it, but finally the amendments were taken off the ballot by the Florida Supreme Court.

They never give up. It is like all the lawyers from the religious law schools started by Falwell and/Robertson are getting out into the field and setting up test cases. We have given more to the ACLU than ever before, and we have begun supporting Americans United as well.

It is not a Christian atmosphere they are after, it is just plain raw power they want.









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ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-08 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
1. This problem will take a generation to repair...
but enforcing the laws on the books can start immediately.
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Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-08 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. And then there's Disney. A separate little country in the heart of Fla. eom
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-08 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. It's own little world...Disney.
.
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fishbulb703 Donating Member (492 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-08 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
3. Another great reason for FL voters to turn up, not that we needed another one.
My District 6 will hopefully go Dem, especially after the incumbent Repub REFUSED to debate the Democratic challenger. Unfortunately, the University of Florida has its fair share of idiots.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. We are early voting next week.
I don't have much faith that Obama will win here, but still hope.
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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-08 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
4. I love the smell of lawsuit in the morning!
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PermanentRevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-08 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
5. "Would you really want a complete separation of church and state?'' he asked.
Yes. Yes, I would.
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4lbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-08 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I would too. Unless that person would like America to turn into the Christian equivalent of Iran
where the religious leaders really control the country, and the "elected" President is more of a figurehead.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. He's so ignorant he doesn't even understand what he's saying.
He'd sign up for separation of church and state in a big hurry if he found out that the church running his state wasn't exactly what he had in mind. I'd love to see these guys run to the Constitution if the Wiccans announced that they'd taken over the state of Florida and things were going to run according to the Wiccan Rede from now on!

(Not that that would necessarily be a bad thing, except that I'm totally opposed to any religious group having secular power. Even Jesus had something to say about that. Don't these people even read their own Bibles? Never mind. Don't answer that. I already know the answer...)
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-08 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
9. Why does this crazy shit always happen in Florida?
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. 'Cause of the crazy shitheads?
Americans seem to go nuts when you put them somewhere warm
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. It's not just Florida. They're just so used to it being tolerated by the gummint that they
think it's just normal and fine to do it. After all, they are Christians. And Christians can't do anything wrong. Because they are blessed by the love of Jaheeezus and gawd.

Amen.

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machI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 06:09 AM
Response to Original message
13. Kick
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Poseidan Donating Member (630 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 06:22 AM
Response to Original message
14. sometimes....
Edited on Sat Oct-18-08 06:24 AM by Poseidan
Religious people need to get the shit kicked out of them. The separation of church and state is in the Constitution, just not worded that way. It is called INTENT, a basic rule of law which all lawyers know.

These asshole Christians, who are not real Christians in any way, and certainly not Americans, need a severe re-alignment. Our founders were not Christian, our nation has never been Christian and 'most of the people being Christian' does not change the Constitution or the reason behind free-religion, and therefore freedom in general (if even 1 person is un-free, it is not freedom).

Anyone who breaches the separation should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
15. Where are those fiscal conservatives when you need them?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
16. Corrupt officiasls turn "NO" into "Yes" --
“No revenue of the state or any political subdivision or agency thereof shall ever be taken from the public treasury directly or indirectly in aid of any church, sect, or religious denomination or in aid of any sectarian institution.”
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JimboBillyBubbaBob Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
17. Hernando Festival
Tax exempt churches drawing public funds! What a scam. It's part of that Socialism, that redistribution of wealth. Hah!!!
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