lost a friend today

[bigtree]

I called him and he began complaining about his washer broke and his landlord not fixing it and that he had to go to the laundromat.

"The place was full of black people, in my way." he said. "And they were rude to me."

Okay, I let that slide. Then, he began ranting about 'aliens' and that Obama was going to let them all in. Okay. I tried, like I always do, to talk him down with facts.

Then it became, 'Obama has terrorist friends.'

"Where's the proof of that?!" I countered, my temper rising. "What terrorists?!"

"I don't know, I saw a picture."

To be honest, this is a man who has always talked this way, but I guess I assumed I had made some impact on him with my friendship. I can see now that there hasn't really been any understanding.

I have to blame the politics of McCain for encouraging this confrontation with my friend. He's relying on all of the right-wing propaganda against Obama to make his case. He's apparently believing them and now he feels free to offer that crap up as legitimate political debate.

I told him he was out of line and he hung up. I'm done. I'm done trying to dissuade him from adopting and embracing idiotic, racist, bigoted propaganda. I decided that the best I could do was to show him that his politics was so far out of line that he forfeited any chance of a relationship with me.

I'm terribly hurt by this. I've always considered that he was the one upset and frustrated and that I was secure enough to wade through his bigotry and offer enough balance to . . . I really don't know. I failed. Rove republicans won. It's devastating to me, really. We're winning the war, but I lost this battle close to home.

I pray for some sanity, but I'm not prepared to put myself on the line again to repair this one close relationship and that's a tragedy to me. Best of luck to us all as we elect this decent and generous man.

[Saturday]

1. ((bigtree)) nt

[bigtree]

5. thanks, yadayadayada

I need it.

[gratuitous]

2. You're well quit of him

His washing machine broke, so he goes to the laundromat, and he's all upset because other people are there in his way? First off, he's in their way. If he's been doing his own laundry all these years and has to go to the laundromat, he's the interloper, not the people who've been using the laundromat for years. Unless he thinks laundromats should open just on the off chance that he will patronize them should his washing machine break down.

Someone unable to get around that elementary fact are not to be reasoned with. You can't save everyone (and maybe not anyone), and this person sounds like his little red caboose has chugged completely around the bend.

[bigtree]

3. I just the type of person who understands why frustrated folks turn to the demagoguery

. . . and, I'm secure enough to offer reason.

What happened today was that I've become full-up with the bull. That's not such a good thing. I feel diminished by my own frustration. I pray for better days.

[gratuitous]

8. Everyone has their limits

And from your description of the conversation, you went way, way past where I would have hung up the phone. I don't mind listening and responding to even the most stone-brained opinions, but your former friend doesn't seem to have the capacity for understanding that not everything in the world exists solely for his benefit.

If you really think there's something worth salvaging with this person, by all means give yourself permission to take a little break and lower your frustration level. But from the sound of things, this person needs some basic revisions to his weltanschaung before anything else might be done for him.

[bigtree]

10. I agree

He's forfeited the benefit of my counsel. Sad.

[SammyWinstonJack]

4. "I don't know, I saw a picture"?

:wtf: :banghead: :argh:

Too stupid to bother with, imo.

[bigtree]

7. I'm more of a humanist than that

I understand where these expressions come from and why they are used. I work to help folks who feel that way find understanding of the truth and it's relationship to their plights. To admit failure and walk away is devastating for me. I hope you understand that. This person didn't lose his humanity because of what he believes and expressed to me. He's still a victim of the propaganda, now, I guess, he's prepared to assume the attitude of those who convinced him that he has someone else to blame for his troubles. But, he was my friend. And, this is a loss. I don't feel better off.

[SammyWinstonJack]

11. I'm sorry then that you lost a friend. I apologize.

[bigtree]

12. Thanks BSN

I'm crying here . . .

[SammyWinstonJack]

14. ...

:hug:

[blue cat]

6. Sorry, but good ridance

Make another friend.

[bigtree]

9. I don't need another friend to replace him

I'm secure enough with myself to care about him. Nothing good can come from adopting right-wing bull. It's not as if rejecting him solves anything. And, I'm about solving things.

[Turbineguy]

13. Weird.

I had the quite the opposite experience a few weeks ago. As a white person (as in north of Hadrian's Wall white) I was in a laundromat waiting (for a tow truck- it's a long story) and had a nice conversation with a black man. CNN was on the tube and I expressed some comment. He asked me "Who do you hope wins?". I answered, "No brainer, Obama". We talked about "the bailout". He was against it, I was for it, we discussed our various views. It was very nice.

When I am in Fort Lauderdale I go there once a week for my laundry and NOBODY has ever been rude to me.

I hope this wingnuts get their heads out of their asses otherwise they are going to be very unhappy and for no particular reason. They've been miserable for the last 12 or so years and ought to start listening to somebody smarter than that asshole Rush Limbaugh.

[Contrary1]

15. Same old song...different year.

My Freeper sister-in-law told me four years ago that she wouldn't vote for Kerry because he was "wishy-washy", kept changing his stance on issues.

When pressed for an example, she scrunched up her face as if in deep thought. (yeah, right. :eyes: ) "Nothing particular comes to mind, but I know he does it".

No point in wasting time on morons like this.

[stillcool]

16. I'm sorry for your friend...

but you just never know...


No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man.
- Heraclitus of Ephesus


Life may change, but it may fly not;
Hope may vanish, but can die not;
Truth be veiled, but still it burneth;
Love repulsed,--but it returneth.
- Percy Bysshe Shelley

But the nearer the dawn the darker the night,
And by going wrong all things come right;
Things have been mended that were worse,
And the worse, the nearer they are to mend.
- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow,
Tales of a Wayside Inn--

[bigtree]

17. Things have been mended that were worse,

And the worse, the nearer they are to mend

heh, yep.

[mmonk]

18. It's hard to put reason in other people's heads when they

have a set belief system that is being reinforced by bad political rhetoric.

[bigtree]

19. it's that reinforcing

. . . that I'm furiously fighting against. Very frustrating.

I expect folks outside of the system and outside of the inner circle of media and pols to exhibit human weakness and a certain amount of gullibility. I have no tolerance for those in a position to make a difference who are working to inflame with their misinformation and lies.

[mmonk]

20. I know what you mean. My tolerance for it is low as well.

[mitchtv]

21. Sorry,bigtree, this won't make you feel better

but at least the idiot isn't in your family like my "mensa" brother, and my dumbass sister

[mitchum]

22. No great loss for you

[SalmonChantedEvening]

23. It can hurt to stop trying bigtree

I've had to with quite a few friends, and you miss the things you enjoyed about them. You wish they would think, and want to educate themselves about the true criminals plundering this country.

Peaceful vibes Holmes. :hug: :hug: :hug:

[bigtree]

26. you understand perfectly

thanks

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

24. Your friend sounds,...desparate and pretty whacked out.

Unfortunately, those most troubled seem terribly vulnerable to rather extreme influences.

If he is YOUR friend, perhaps he'll agree to end the political talk (with you reciprocating) and you both can focus ONLY ON your friendship?

I do understand how tragic it is when a relationship is infected by those who do not give a damn about either you or your friend.

[bigtree]

27. yep. He has a hard time coping.

Funny thing is, he hates McCain even more. It's mostly his economic situation and a rash of bad luck. I've tried over the Bush years to keep him positive with every advance of our party, but, as things haven't really improved in the nation, things have gotten much worse for him. Gas prices, work, housing . . . The kicker is the way that his painting career has been displaced by folks (newly arrived?) who are willing to work from dusk to dawn for less. I wish it was just a false and bigoted meme, but it's quite true. He still finds work but he's definitely been impacted by the changing work force in his field. The rest just fell in place and made him open to the demagogues who are bent on convincing him that his competition is 'illegal' or some kind of threat. He's heard the truth, but his life is still in the toilet. It's inevitable, I suppose, that he's latching onto whatever scapegoat he can grab a hold of. He's just doesn't have the capacity to take a hold of the truth as he struggles. I'll admit, he spouts every notion that I abhor, but he does it with sincere anguish over his own miserable life. Bottom line, we have to keep working to make our economic situation better to help pull folks like this out of the gutter . . . if we care about them. I just can't tolerate the racism and the bigotry anymore, no matter how much I sympathize and support him as a human being, as the friend I promised I'd be.

I agree, the political talk is through, if we reconcile. It's been a long day. It'll likely be a long night. Thanks for understanding.

[Canuckistanian]

25. I have a feeling that a lot of friends are being lost

I see it more and more. Some people are just so drawn into this election BS that they can't be rational.

It's sad to see America like this, the world used to look up to America as a beacon of knowledge, sanity and justice.

That memory is fading fast.

[bigtree]

28. I hope and pray for better

[ArmedAmerican]

29. if you do ever talk to him again, bring up an analogous situation

Just offhandedly talk about a documentary you saw last week about how Hitler blamed the war-depleted German economy on the Jews, and how that escalated into the biggest clusterfuck of evil in history. See if that seems wrong to him. Don't say "and that's just like Lou Dobbs blaming our economy on the Mexicans", but instead just make comments around that point, see if he makes the connection himself. If he does, maybe there's hope for him. If he doesn't, well, there are a lot of other people in the world to be friends with.

(hey, is Lou short for Lucifer?)