Is MRSA spreading in Florida hospitals without public knowledge?

[sixmile]

Be careful if you are going to the hospital, particularly in Florida.
MRSA is the methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus strain of staph infection that is resistant to commonly used antibiotics.
I ran into an old acquaintance in Miami Beach this morning whose wife was admitted to a Broward County hospital for ankle surgery seven months ago, contracted a MRSA infection and now risks losing her entire leg. He told me further that he had met a couple who recently gave birth to twins who both came down with MRSA in the hospital, also.

It seems to be moving down the Florida peninsula like a pest (think Whitefly or citrus canker if you live here).
The following cases are all from the past month in Florida. Infections contracted by healthy student athletes. If the news is reporting these external cases you can imagine how many REAL cases there are in hospitals.

http://www.ocala.com/article/20081016/NEWS/810161021/-1/OPINION?Title=Third_case_of_MRSA_confirmed
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/osceola/orl-b3justin19serasdfa08oct19,0,3097778.story
http://www.wesh.com/news/17739392/detail.html
http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2008/10/23/third_kissimmee_football_player_contracts_mrsa.html
http://www.wesh.com/health/17786951/detail.html
http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2008/10/26/fourth_high_school_football_player_contracts_mrsa.html

It's even affecting pro sports.
http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1853828,00.html

The moral is be careful if you have to go to a hospital. Wash your hands. Touch as little as possible. And lean on your local media to report to the public on what could be a deadly virus spreading throughout the populace.

[peace frog]

1. I went in for surgery earlier this year

in a Central Florida hospital. Prior to admittance (it was a scheduled non-emergency surgery) my nasal passages were swabbed and tested for Staph, and I was given an antibiotic liquid cleanser to wash with for several days prior to entering the hopsital. Preventing MRSA is being taken very seriously, whether of not the public knows about it.

[sixmile]

2. Cases are up 300% in a decade.

Severe cases of MRSA, occur in about 94,000 people a year nationally. About 20 percent of those cases result in death.

[peace frog]

3. Which would explain

why hospital staff were so cautious about prevention before and duing my stay, which is probably standard procedure.

[bobbolink]

7. You were fortunate.

No, it's not "standard procedure".

Unfortunately.

Especially if you're poor.

[peace frog]

11. Yes, I was fortunate

and you may be correct that it isn't standard procedure for the uninsured, which if true is despicable treatment. But that doesn't change the fact that the hospital staff I dealt with were very concerned about Staph and intent on taking preventive measures. Disparate treatment of patients, however, would undo their efforts and I hope this fact is recognized and acted upon.

[FM Arouet666]

23. Uninsured and poor patients don't get the same care.

I have seen infections not treated appropriately because the patient was treated with a less effective and less expensive anti-biotic. Some patients simply cannot afford proper treatment and most docs go out of their way with free drug samples, free wound care supplies etc to get patients treated. The system is broken for those without insurance and for those who cannot afford proper care.

Many uninsured patients are treated only after a chronic condition becomes an acute emergent condition. These patients tend to do poorly when compared to those who have had regular medical care.

The bottom line is that the US needs to have health care for all people regardless of income. Universal health care should be a right in this country.

[bobbolink]

39. nevermind....

It's not worth it.....

[peace frog]

86. Agreed

Health care should be a right, not a commodity available only to those who can afford it.

[bobbolink]

37. Thank you for ujnderstanding. It's so cold to see the attacks I get for posting the obvious... the

things that "progressives" pride themselves on!

And, it's not just "the uninsured"... it's MEDICAID patients, too!

As a matter of fact, what would make a good journalistic series is for some reporter to "go underground" as a Medicaid patient, and report on the treatment. There are some dedicated doctors who actually survived medical school with their compassion intact, but there is a LOT of judgementalism and just plain UGLY treatment when you're poor.

Really, that would be a very good series, and I wish that some reporter had the support to do it.

[FM Arouet666]

62. Just going to needle you some more.

Actually, I agree with you on this one, it would be a great undercover series. As an example, I know a private practice doctor who takes all his referrals and then places them in order of who pays the best. Good insurance first, next not so good, down to Medicare then Medicaid, and charity. He seems to pride himself on this system. If your on Medicaid and have a serious illness, guess what, you probably will not get seen by this "doctor" anytime soon. I always thought that those with the most serious medical conditions should be treated first. But then again I am just a confused "progressive" doctor who bashes others in the GD forum. And that does it for me tonight.............

[magdalena]

82. This is unfortunately too true.

A few years back I took a job that had incredible health benefits. About a week after they were effective I came down with a terrible kidney stone. I went into the emergency room around 9pm, and after running all the tests I was scheduled for surgery at 6am the next morning. I'm put up in a private room that's akin to a hotel suite with video game consoles, internet access, and free dvds. A nurse who prepped me for surgery was astonished that I was having surgery for my condition, let alone having it scheduled so quickly. She actually says to me, "Wow, you must know some important people or have some great insurance." I'm kept in the hospital for two days following surgery with a steady supply of morphine. I have to pay virtually nothing.

My brother comes down with a kidney stone a month later. He unfortunately had a terrible health plan with bare bones coverage and an insanely high deductible. He goes to the same emergency room as I did and gets the same physician. The doctor runs some tests, prescribes a painkiller and sends him on his way to suffer for two weeks until his stone finally passes. He actually returns to the emergency room a few days later because his pain is unbearable despite the drugs and they tell him there is nothing more they can do for him. His out of pocket expense was over 1000$.

I saw first hand how disgusting the disparity of health care is for those with good insurance vs. those with poor/no insurance. I can't imagine how it would be for people with serious or chronic conditions. This really would be a good undercover series. Maybe it would wake people up to the reality of how the health care industry works and help them to realize their lives are literally in the health insurance company's hands. Perhaps then they wouldn't be so frightened of Obama's "socialist" agenda.

[Hannah Bell]

60. Hospitals vary. Some do great, some are abysmal.

[old mark]

4. It is in some hospitals and institutions in PA, and no one has said a word

publicly. They say it violates "patient confidentiality" to publicize the facts.
I don't have any links on this - I worked in a hospital with several MRSA-infected patients.


mark

[Patiod]

38. when my dad was in the hospital in PA last Thanksgiving

They had big bold red MRSA signs outside patients' rooms

My SIL, who is a nurse in a dialysis unit, just gave an in-service to her staff about MRSA

If you read the book "Better: A Surgeon's Notes on Performance" by Atul Gawande he details just how difficult it is to get everyone involved to make the necessary behavior changes - doctors, nurses, all the techs - and make them permanently, not just for a short time.

[Hannah Bell]

61. They've done it in sweden, holland, & other places. there's a tested protocol.

It cost some $, time & training.

cuts down on profit & short-staffing.

[Patiod]

85. And there's the rub - they might actually need

adequate number of competent and decently-paid staff. As you say, cuts down on profit (the whole "non-profit" thing is such a joke)

The one thing I learned being at the hospital all the time is that if you're just relying on RN/LPN staff, you're in trouble. We ended up doing a lot, and pestering staff, as well as pushing his GP to be a stronger advocate for him. The patients without advocates did not get nearly as much attention.

[MrsBrady]

5. it took us over a year for my husband to get rid of his MRSA.

this is not to be "f-ed" with.

also more than one kind of MRSA, so a person HAS to be tested so dr's know which one it is.

I won't go through the LONG story of how we got rid of it, but if anyone needs to know what we did exactly to get through this - please feel free to pm me, and I'll give anyone the long version.
my husband had 5 of these in his head and face area, and one in his foot after a surgery (he already had it at the time of his surgery)
the first time he ended up in the ER.

he's been clear for almost year now. our dr said we would never get rid of it, but we did.
it takes a lot of this medicine to put up the nose to get the "colonization" out. AND the correct antibiotics, otherwise it could make it worse.
it takes vigilance and determination with standard medicine, hospital like cleaning of literally everything (from walls, furniture, fixtures, appliances--i mean EVERYTHING) in our home, cars and his work area.
plus i learned there is stuff you can do at home to help prevent it as well.
and we also did a lot of stuff with vitamins, diet, and natural anti-biotics, and herbs (from a real herbalist who knows her stuff)

we are in Texas.
we don't know how he acquired it. it may have been from his crappy Taekwondo school (he's since switched schools and gone to Karate) because they shared equipment. something this new school does not allow.
BUT -- he also travels about 25-50% of the time. So he may have picked it up somewhere else. No way to know.

By the way, the hospital did not swab him for MRSA after we told them he had had it. The surgeon just assumed he still did and gave him a drip of anti-biotic before surgery. he still ended up with a break out at the incision.

on edit: these resistant strains do not need openings in the skin like regular staff. they just come up on their own.
and, he had NOT been in the hospital before his infection

[bobbolink]

6. How can you "be careful" if you're a patient in a hospital?

How can you "Be careful" if you are being treated by a nurse who hasn't washed her hands???

How can you "BE careful" when you're in surgery, especially under anesthesia?

I really do wish that we would stop with the blaming the victim, and expecting VULNERABLE people to somehow be responsible for changing outcomes over which they have NO CONTROL!

The patient washing their hands (assuming they are even mobile and able to get to the bathroom under their own power) does NOTHING TO STOP AN INFECTION PASSED ON BY MEDICAL PERSONNEL!

I had a conversation recently with a nurse, and she was complaining about how many doctors and nurses don't even wash their hands, let alone use gloves, or any other REQUIRED proceedures.

And if you were to complain, or even ASK if they had washed their hands, what kind of treatment do you think you'd get from there on?

PLEASE>>>> LEt's stop this warning people to "Be Careful" when they have no control!

The time to BE CAREFUL is BEFORE you are a patient! What are the people of this state Doing to change this???? THEY are the ones who need to be nudged to take charge of this situation!

[MrsBrady]

8. you can't be...

it could be in the bed, on the walls, tables.

this MRSA does not die (easily) and can live outside the body in clothing, sheets, beds.

unless they are being extra vigilant at the hospital/employee level, they won't.
Also, patients would have to be aggressive in making sure that people who touch them have cleaned themselves properly, but I don't see how you could do that if you are not feeling well and much of the time not able.

just my opinion

[bobbolink]

9. Thank you! You're exactly right.

You detailed it exactly.

You only left out ONE THING... if you were speak up, and ask about it, you would be then treated with disdain, and who knows... you might even be purposely exposed just out of meanness.

Yes, medical personnel also don't like to be questioned, and can retaliate, when you're the most vulnerable.

I ask again... please, let's watch our language on these things, and not make people responsible for that over which they have no control!

[MrsBrady]

10. when my husband had his surgery

we told them that he had had MRSA and had been treated several times that year.

they didn't swab, they didn't do anything...they had no kind of pre-screening procedure.
WE were the ones that brought it up.

they kinda acted like it was just a fact of life.

all they did was give him a drip of "whatever the name of that antibiotic drip is" ( i'd have to look up the name)

really careless. after that I got extra vigilant and did research.
he had two or three more breakouts after that, but finally got rid of it with our military style attitude to get rid of it.
not even his regular dr seemed to have any kind of sense of urgency about it and just seemed to think he wouldn't get rid of it. careless - so careless.

this stuff left untreated will KILL you, i don't understand how they can be so passive.

[TZ]

15. Would you like to back up your claim

That medical personnell will retaliate and deliberately infect people if questioned? Or are you okay with slandering an entire profession with little proof? Your prejudice is disgusting...:puke:

[bobbolink]

43. Back atcha....

:puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:

Such intelligence.... wow.. it was truly stunning.

:crazy:

[FM Arouet666]

21. Your post is offensive.

You might find some isolated occurrences of retaliation against patients, and be clear on this, such occurrences would be criminal. As in, assault with intent to cause bodily harm or, if the patient expires, murder. To suggest that such occurrences are common is just ridiculous. If you think that they are common show your evidence. To suggest that medical personal will treat you with disdain is counter productive to this conversation. Do you want others reading this post to remain silent because they fear retaliation from their doc or nurse?

Speak up, ask questions, arm yourself with information about any medical treatment or procedure. Most docs are used to it in the age of the internet, and many, like myself, encourage it. Many of my patients can quote to me the complications and risks of the procedures they are about to have before I even initiate the conversation.

You may find some "meanness" but fear of a negative reaction is no excuse for remaining silent when your health is on the line. If you perceive that the "meanness" has lead to retaliation, report them, speak up! If you do not like a nurse or doctor because they are "mean" ask to see someone else, talk to the charge nurse, talk to the chief of the medical staff.

[bobbolink]

32. And you didn't find it "offensive" when the poster ahead of this said it's what happened to her?

How.... interesting...

"If you do not like a nurse or doctor because they are "mean" ask to see someone else, talk to the charge nurse, talk to the chief of the medical staff. "

Either you haven't been in a hospital lately, or you have a postion of safety in some way. To actually DISMISS what happens to poor and elderly people quite often is what *I* find offensive. IN the age of for-profit "health care", to think that there is actually any compassion to be found there is naive in the extreme.

And this is "PROGRESSIVE"??? Blaming the victims????

Pull your head out of the clouds!

[uppityperson]

40. Which poster said retaliation happened to them?

I don't see any.

[FM Arouet666]

53. Well, you are very angry I will give you that.

You posted that you think that doctors will purposely infect people who stand up. I said that was a stretch and stand by that, If you have evidence to the contrary then post it. Yes, I suspect that you might find some cases, but the majority of those in the medical field will not assault a patient who complains.

Haven't been in a hospital lately? Position of safety? Not here, I am in the hospital every day and hardly feel safe. Legal action can be brought against a physician for just about anything. Sometimes justifiably so, sometimes not. A patient can also anonymously file a complaint with the state board of medicine which is taken very seriously. But you are right, not everyone can get a lawyer or has the means to file a complaint and, as one poster pointed out below, it may not be in your best interest to complain. While you may not get assaulted with MRSA, you may find it hard to get medical care in the future.

You need to calm down for a second, I understand your frustration with the system, it flat out does not work. However, saying that the system is devoid of all compassion and all docs are greedy bastards is simply not true. I am not blaming the victims and I am not dismissing nor making any excuse for what happens to those without health care coverage.

[uppityperson]

29. Shame on you for those allegations.

Your scenario is medical personnel running around with MRSA will retaliate if you ask about it? Shame on you. Spreading fear (don't ask because you will be retaliated against) is wrong, and will cause more health care issues than it will help. If you run up against a rare health care worker who you think is "mean", speak up to the next higher person.

[Lifetimedem]

16. Exactly!

The best thing any of us can do is get out of the hospital as soon as possible. Hospitals are dangerous places .
If you have a family member there, STAY and watch EVERYTHING. Sick people usually can not do it themselves , old people think doctors and nurses are gods.

I am an old nurse so i watch what everyone does carefully.

I had a nurse almost kill me with a med I am allergic to. When i questioned her she was clueless and ya angry.

But I made her check my chart and call pharmacy ( where the mistake originated.)

I always tell them to wash their hands or put on gloves..are they happy NO but we all have to take care of ourselves and our loved ones.

Do not trust the nurses or the doctors.. speak up

I turned the dumb nurse in to her supervisor, I have called the nursing director to complain no one was getting the elderly lady next to me out of bed..

In short I am pro active BECAUSE I am a nurse.

BTW I always watched other nurses to make sure that sterile dressings stayed sterile and that hands were washed.

[bobbolink]

33. "When i questioned her she was clueless and ya angry."

You might notice that I've been castigated for saying this happens.

You might want to reply to them, also.

Some of us who speak up about reality get nail holes from it.

I hope you will voice this to the people who are attacking me.

I appreciate the kindness and the attention you give to other vulnerable people! :hug:

You sound like a gem.... thank you so much for speaking up!

[FM Arouet666]

54. Bingo.

You hit it on the head. You said exactly what I was posting above, but I got creamed for it.

[FM Arouet666]

18. True but you can take action.

The most correct thing you stated was "The time to BE CAREFUL is BEFORE you are a patient!"

The washing of the hands is important, but your right, if the patient or family is washing and the doctors and nurses are not, you can expect to see a lot of infections. Most rooms now have anti-bacterial gel dispensers on the wall, did your doc use it when he or she came into see you? Did your nurse? Yes, they may be a bit taken aback by your vigilance if you ask them to please use it, but it is your health that is on the line. How do you
"be careful" when you have surgery? Ask the doctor and ask the hospital about the number of MRSA infections that they see.

Ask the hospital if they have an infectious disease doc who is tasked with monitoring the number of infections and tasked with fighting the spread of MRSA through the hospital. Ask to speak with infectious disease doc to get the information you need in making your decision about where to be treated.

I have a number of patients who come to me after having a MRSA infection and they are all very vigilant, monitor the docs and nurses and ask questions. It is not about blaming the victim, it is about not becoming a victim in the first place.

[bobbolink]

34. "It is not about blaming the victim, it is about not becoming a victim in the first place. "

Good luck on that.

Given that it's all for profit now, what we NEED is not exactly a priority.

Especially if you're alone and have nobody to speak up for you, or, God forbid, if you're poor.

And, for those who like to bash me for speaking to reality, you *MIGHT* consider remembering the "experiments" that poor people have been subjected to in this society. Then think again about telling people to "take action" and "protect themselves".

[FM Arouet666]

59. I am not trying to BASH you

I understand your pissed off, we should all be pissed off in this country.

I cannot speak to your personal experience, we all have different experiences with health care. I do not know what it is like to be poor, alone, a victim of discrimination because of my sex, skin color or sexual orientation. I do not know what it is like to be afraid to speak up because I might lose what little health care I have or fear that someone might try to harm me.

But I do know that it is wrong to have a system that favors only those who can afford insurance. I do know that a "for profit" medical system does not work and that discrimination does occur and occurs more often than most in the medical profession would like to acknowledge.

I also know that a health care system that allows people like yourself to be afraid to speak up is a failure and needs to be changed.

I also know that change will not occur with silence.

[bobbolink]

89. Really???? Telling me my post is "offensive" isn't bashing????

You're making sooooo many assumptions.... which is very common among health care workers who think they are "above" their patients.

And how often is it effective to YOU when somebody tells you to "calm down"???? That's so damned paternalistic, yet you can't understand my anger???? Try listening some time, dearie, instead of telling people they "need" to "calm down". Maybe YOU need to grow a heart. Ever consider that?

Assuming that I've been silent is VERY OFFENSIVE!!!

I've done so much volunteeer work for an organization trying to get single-payer health care...

Oh fuck it.. I'm not going to defend myself to you.

I'm SICK of "progressives" who pride themselves on "needling" people and putting them on the defensive.

If that's "progressive", then fuck it all..........

[sixmile]

92. We come with many stories to this place

But we're all important to someone.

When someone tells me to calm down, or if I tell someone to calm down the reactions are typically the exact opposite.

I know what you mean. I feel you.

May God smile on you and may you be in peace.

[bobbolink]

95. Thank you.

I wish some of these self-satisfied clowns would walk in my shoes for just a short time.

Thanks for understanding.

It means a lot.

:pals:

[rainbow4321]

48. A patient can do their part...will at least cut down on the MRSA spreading

Speaking as a nurse I say:
If ANY health care professional enters their room and doesn't go DIRECTLY to the sink, the patient needs to tell them "please don't assess/touch me until you wash your hands". If they see them about to leave their room after being assessing/touched, tell them straight out "you really should wash your hands before you leave". If you get 'tude about it, talk to the charge nurse.
Any family members coming to visit? Same thing. They need to be told to wash their hands. MRSA stays on hard surfaces for 30 days. So all those doorknobs and elevator buttons your family just touched on the way INTO see you were most likely covered with MRSA and is now on their hands. Same thing if they sat in the waiting rrom or went to the cafeteria.
Lots of healthcare setting also have wall mounted dispensers of hand santizers in public areas specifically for visitors to use. Ours even had one down in the lobby next to the elevator.
It would amaze me to see people who brought their little kids into the hospital to see a patient and let them crawl/play all over the floor. Ick. I wouldn't even wear my work shoes around my house after walking around the hospital.

That is the part I never understood back when they were closing schools down to be cleaned after MRSA was found. All those backpacks and other stuff the kids bring to/from school, books, etc...all at one point or another had touched a hard surface at the school where the MRSA had been. Doesn't do much good to clean the school/desks/floors if you are only going to allow all the student's accessories come back NOT cleaned.
All that does is bring the MRSA right back! Really, any items one has in the hospital that are brought home can also be carrying MRSA if they touched a hard surface at the hospital.

[sixmile]

49. Sounds like a business opportunity

Are there on site companies who specialize in non intrusive sterilizing facilities top to bottom?

[Hannah Bell]

63. well, it's true a patient *could* do those things, but 1) many patients are too ill, &

2) unless a patient has a stellar manner or the doc is one in a hundred, telling the doc to wash his hands will earn the patient a label & possibly even a snotty response. & in most cases, the charge nurse won't be an advocate v. the docs.

I work in a hospital. I know what goes on behind the scenes, & how some *difficult* patients are discussed & treated.

Is it too much to expect health personnel to follow infection control policies known for a century, without sick patients having to remind them? Nothing personal, I realize you're just trying to give useful information for circumstances which presently exist, but it ticks me off that the system is such that this is considered practical advice.

[bobbolink]

90. Thank you, Hannah. It's sad that so many people don't understand how hospitals label

and treat "difficult" people.... I really appreciate you detailing this.

we get blame from both sides, and I challenge the blamers to come up with just how that blame is supposed to help our health! Being in a no-win situation certainly hasn't made me healthier!

[barbtries]

75. my cousin had to get blood work

she insisted that the nurse put on gloves. the nurse first laughed at her, then put on the gloves and acted offended. tough shit. insist on it.

[FM Arouet666]

12. Take a deep breath

And just for clarity, MRSA is a bacteria and not a "deadly virus." MRSA is a problem in hospitals all across this country. However, your post makes it sound as if a new plague is secretly weaving its way through Florida. MRSA is not new and has been with us for decades. Fortunately, there are still a few antibiotics which can treat it, the chief among them being an antibiotic called vancomycin.

The post is correct in terms of the severity of some MRSA infections. Most MRSA infections are treated easily. However, there are patients that are more at risk. Diabetics, immuno-compromised; be it by drugs e.g. chemotherapy, steroids or illness e.g. HIV etc, elderly, any patient with an artificial implant. The latter category can be particularly devastating. An infected artificial joint, heart valve or mesh used in hernia repair can lead to horrific consequences. And, yes, sometimes young otherwise healthy patients get a devastating MRSA infection.

All hospitals track MRSA infections, especially after surgery. Some hospitals have a higher percentage than others. Infectious disease specialists at hospitals are tasked with trying to lower the number of infections through strict hand washing after seeing patients, isolation of those with infections or with a history of infections etc. If you have a concern, contact the hospital or surgi-center where you might be having a procedure and find out how many MRSA cases they have and compare it to other hospitals in your location. I do know if they will tell you this information, but I do know they have it as I work in the medical field.

Now if you want to be scared about something, think about VRSA and VISA, vancomycin resistant and vancomycin intermediate Staphylococcus aureus, strains of Staph which are resistant to vancomycin. Both are described but have not attained clinical significance, yet. Meaning they have not appeared in hospitals and are not killing people, yet. And the one case which I found for VRSA was treatable with other antibiotics.

The moral is be careful if you have to go to the hospital, wash your hands, touch as little as possible and ask a lot of questions. What is the rate of infection at the hospital and ask your doctor how often he or she sees MRSA infections.

[TZ]

13. Thank you for the sane post.

People seem to think if they haven't heard about it it MUST BE A COVERUP! OMG!!
As for the idiot who thinks doctors and nurses would DELBERATELY INFECT a patient with MRSA out of spite..:wtf:
Once more the DU hatred of medical professionals raises its ugly ugly head.
MRSA is a problem that the health community is well aware of and actually HAS been well publicized! In fact there is a VERY high profile case of it right now! Tom Brady of the NE patriots.
Yes, washing hands is a preventative, but mistakes happen and in hospital environments its VERY easy to get Staph infections. Has been a problem for years actually. And if you don't think hospitals take this seriously..you are just ignorant.

[FM Arouet666]

19. Argh! didn't see the post on deliberate infection. Thanks for noting it n/t

[AngryAmish]

22. ONly the Cleveland Browns deliberately infect people with MRSA...

[Ishoutandscream2]

36. Yeah, they really dig pus

[Duppers]

77. I don't know about 'deliberately infecting' someone either, but

The point is:
IF THE MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS WERE DOING THEIR JOB, THERE WOULD NOT BE THESE SERIOUS OUTBREAKS IN HOSPITALS!

Now, don't get defensive, T-Sue, but Medical professionals are just like the rest of the human population: there are all kinds of people in it. It's not a homogeneous group that should not be stuck on a pedestal, nor should they be degraded. They are human.

Regarding things being reported: Some years ago my son had meningitis. There was another case, a little girl in very serious condition in isolation next door to him at the small local hospital where he was admitted. Neither case made the news/papers. A Cover-up?
NO, just not reported to the public. Perhaps it was just that non-reporting the person was referring to?

[sixmile]

45. I took a deep breath. Thanks.

Going into a hospital for minor surgery and ending up with an amputation is scary. The point of the original post was to tell folks stay out of hospitals or take the necessary precautions if you have to be admitted. I was also trying to establish that MRSA is more prevalent than we may know in the world of the layperson.
Thanks for the VRSA and VISA information. Very valuable.

[Duppers]

76. This is about medical professionals stopping the infections

Thank you for your posts, sixmile.

-d

[northernlights]

47. thank you for a voice of sanity

MRSA is everywhere; not just in hospitals and not just in Florida hospitals. There have been community outbreaks off and on, at places where people congregate.

I find it hard to believe doctors and nurses are careless about it, since they are at risk as well as the patients. I'm in pre-med level microbiology right now and certainly in school we are being drilled on handwashing and decontamination of surfaces; all of the students are very aware of the risks.

In Europe, they swab every patient on entry to hospital to test for MRSA. Sensible protocol, but for that we'd probably need, ahem, national health care.

[Cetacea]

83. CA-MRSA IS new. It is no longer confined to health-care settings.

And it is epidemic. Google is your friend.

[sixmile]

87. I didn't think I was hyperventilating

Look at the cases being spread through high school sports teams. I don't remember ever seeing so many in such a short period of time.

[Critters2]

14. A nurse in my congregation tells me that MRSA is present in pretty much

every hospital. When I had been exposed while visiting a parishioner, she told me that people are exposed to MRSA all the time, but those with healthy immune systems also fight it off every day. In short, for the vast majority of us, it's nothing to worry about.
For those in hospitals, there are effective treatments available. It's life-threatening in a tiny number of cases.

[LeftCoast]

17. I am an RN. MRSA is everywhere. Not just in the hospitals

Additionally, MRSA isn't just one bacteria it is a spectrum of drug resistant staph. aureaus strains that range from resistance to only Methycillin to resistance to virtually every known antibiotic (thankfully this type is extremely rare).

Even if your friends came down with it after a hospitalization it's not necessarily safe to say they got it from the hospital since they may have had it colonized on their skin long before they visited the hospital.

Is it scary. Yes. Should we panic? No. Always take your entire course of antibiotics when they are prescribed. Don't ask for antibiotics for a viral infection (such as a cold or flu). Wash your hands frequently for at least 20 seconds.

[Hannah Bell]

25. nevertheless, the us has a comparatively high rate of hospital-acquired infection & death

v. e.g. sweden, holland:

"Forty-one per cent of strains of Staphyloccus aureaus in UK hospitals were found to be antibiotic resistant compared with one per cent in Sweden and Finland and zero in the Netherlands."

http://www.direct-healthcare.com/mrsa.htm

These countries once had higher rates but instituted serious surveillance programs. The US could do it too.

[LeftCoast]

26. Yes, our rates are way too high

There's a very large effort currently underway in the US to work on it, but as with everything in our system...it's not going great.

[Hannah Bell]

27. Some european countries are near zero.

http://easydiagnosis.com/blog/?cat=50

"Among developed countries, the United States has one of the worst records for curbing, not only MRSA, but other drug-resistant infections. The CDC itself noted a 32-fold increase in MRSA hospital infections between 1976 and 2003. 25 years ago Denmark, Finland, and the Netherlands faced similarly soaring rates of MRSA, but have nearly eradicated it. How was this accomplished?

Hospital Infections in Europe and Canada

In an eye-catching article in the online magazine, Slate, “Europe is killing off hospital infections. Why isn’t the United States following suit?”, Arthur Allen writes, “If you are an American admitted to a hospital in Amsterdam, Toronto, or Copenhagen these days, you’ll be considered a biohazard. Doctors and nurses will likely put you into quarantine while they determine whether you’re carrying methicillin-resistant staph…If you test positive for MRSA these European and Canadian hospital workers will don protective gloves, masks, and gowns each time they approach you, and then strip off the gear and scrub down vigorously when they leave your room. The process is known as “search and destroy.”


After five years of deliberation, the CDC continues its refusal to endorse search and destroy."

[Hannah Bell]

28. also, us-style fragmented care, with functions ultra-divided = increased transmission vectors.

this is a function of applying division of labor for profit to health care.

[bobbolink]

41. Thank you for your great information.

As I know from anthropology, it's always important to look at the rest of the world.

In so many cases, we learn that we are NOT the best, and have much to learn from other countries.

You're a fount of info!

:applause:

[uppityperson]

44. Isn't Toronto in Canada, not Europe? Info on Europe (yes, it is there)

http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/MeetingAbstracts/ma?f=102264782.html

Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) is an important cause of nosocomial infections worldwide. Recent studies suggest that the epidemiology of MRSA may be changing, as the isolation of MRSA is no longer limited to hospitalized patients or persons with predisposing risk factors. In Europe, the prevalence of MRSA varies considerably between countries. However, the prevalence of MRSA colonization in healthy persons in the community has been shown to be low, even when MRSA is highly endemic in hospital settings. Differences in classification of hospital and community-acquired MRSA (CA-MRSA) in published reports make it difficult to estimate the true impact of CA-MRSA in Europe. Several reports, however, demonstrate spread of certain CA-MRSA clones within communities. A review on these reports will be provided. In a recent national study from Finland, CA-MRSA was defined as a MRSA-positive specimen obtained outside hospital settings or within 2 days of hospital admission, from a person who had not been hospitalized within 2 years before the date of MRSA isolation. Based on these criteria, it was shown that one fifth of Finnish MRSA strains were isolated from persons without a recent hospital contact. The median age of MRSA-positive persons who did not have a contact with a health-care facility was lower than that of persons who had contact. In addition, the proportion of children 15 years of age was higher in CA-MRSA than in hospital-acquired MRSA strains. The CA-MRSA strains were most often sensitive to antibiotics other than beta-lactams, and showed several different genotypes. One non-multiresistant clone accounted for almost 40% of all CA- MRSA. In spite of variation of genotypes, the majority of CA-MRSA shared the same SCCmec type, namely SCCmec IV. CA-MRSA also often shared genotypes found amongst MSSA strains. These results suggest that horizontal transfer of SCCmec from unknown donor(s) to several MSSA background genotypes has occurred in Finland.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/Eid/vol10no9/04-0069.htm

We explored the variation in proportions of methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) between and within countries participating in the European Antimicrobial Resistance Surveillance System and temporal trends in its occurrence. This system collects routine antimicrobial susceptibility tests for S. aureus. We examined data collected from January 1999 through December 2002 (50,759 isolates from 495 hospitals in 26 countries). MRSA prevalence varied almost 100-fold, from <1% in northern Europe to >40% in southern and western Europe. MRSA proportions significantly increased in Belgium, Germany, Ireland, the Netherlands, and the United Kingdom, and decreased in Slovenia. Within countries, MRSA proportions varied between hospitals with highest variance in countries with a prevalence of 5% to 20%. The observed trends should stimulate initiatives to control MRSA at national, regional, and hospital levels. The large differences between hospitals indicate that efforts may be most effective at regional and hospital levels.

Geographic variation in proportions of methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) (1999–2002).


Statistically significant trends (p < 0.05) in methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) proportions per year by country, 1999–2002, including hospitals participating for at least 3 consecutive years and reporting data of >20 isolates only.

http://www.privatehealth.co.uk/hospitaltreatment/treatment-abroad/mrsa-europe/

MRSA statistics across Europe
In terms of antibiotic resistance in hospitals, the UK has one of the worst records, particularly for MRSA. . For people who are concerned about the possibility of MRSA infection in UK hospitals has been one of the factors which has encouraged them to seek hospital treatment abroad.

The EARSS (European Antimicrobial Resistance Surveillance System ) monitors antimicrobial resistance in Europe. It maintains a comprehensive surveillance and information system that provides comparable and validated data on the prevalence and spread of major invasive bacteria such as MRSA. According to EARSS (European Antimicrobial Resistance Surveillance System ) Norway had less than 0.6% MRSA in 2005.

[Hannah Bell]

58. Never said the bug wasn't there. Said the rate of hospital-acquired was near zero in some health

systems.

The UK has one of the worst records, but Scandanavia & Holland, though they once had high rates, have significantly reduced them through health protocols.

But apparently that information isn't welcome to some. No "how do they do that"? etc.

[Midlodemocrat]

20. My husband just recovered from a CA MRSA pneumonia.

It's not the death sentence it was a year or so ago. The drug cocktail is very effective. They culture the blood and give a broad spectrum antibiotic until the culture grows out completely and treat the patient with whichever antibiotic it isn't resistant to.

It's scary, but not as dangerous as it used to be.

[Hannah Bell]

24. Sweden instituted infection control policies that cut their rates of hospital-acquired

infections significantly below international averages.
Recently their rates began to rise, though still below int'l rates. 1/4 of cases acquired abroad.

IMO, we could do more. I suspect if rates are rising in florida, culprits are 1) cost-cutting in for-profit care & 2) increasing economic insecurity = poorer, sicker people.

[Are_grits_groceries]

30. I got MRSA in a cut on my left middle finger.

It took forever to get rid of it. Luckily, mine didn't turn out to be the worst kind that can spread and affect the body organs.
I had to go back into the hospital 5 years later, and I told them I had had MRSA. I thought they were going to quarantine me on the roof.
I just had to go to the doctor because I have a sore on the same hand that won't heal quickly. It wasn't MRSA, but they wanted to see me ASAP.
I was lucky.

[FM Arouet666]

31. Denmark, Finland, Netherlands, Sweden are socialist.

They have universal coverage and very low MRSA rates. Obviously a failed system. As we all know socialism = communism = evil evil evil. More infection is more drugs which is more profit. We need more disease in this country, not less. :sarcasm:

Sorry, saw all the posts about other health care systems in comparison to what you have in Florida and couldn't resist. Demand universal health care.

[RedLetterRev]

51. I'm glad I read down the thread

to see you are one of the good guys. But I do want to relate -- as gently as I can -- that it doesn't always do one well to try to climb the chain of command. Sometimes, no matter how politely one asks, no matter how right one is to do so, it comes to no good end. I admire and laud your idealism -- please hang on to as much of that as you can. Please understand, in balance, that it isn't always as easy as it sounds to fight for what's right, true, and just, though.

I have some personal experience from about 7 years ago. My SO had been receiving some pretty excellent care in SoFla, but circumstances (the end of a contract and no prospects) dictated that we move to my home state of NC. The contract I thought I had to keep us afloat didn't materialize, so that left us in some pretty rough circumstances; a bad winter in a home with no heat. He is a long-term (almost 30-year) survivor of HIV and soon developed pneumonia. His ID wasn't available and wouldn't be until Monday (this was Saturday). The only alternative was to get him to the emergency room, where they put him on O2 seeing that he was purple with a sat of about 85%. When they were taking his vitals, he divulged his status and the technician removed the O2 and said, "we can't do anything further for you; you have to leave now". In shock, I asked if they were refusing to treat him because of his status. The technician refused to say.

I asked to speak to the Charge. That's what you're supposed to do, right? Not in that town, my friend. When she deigned to appear, she said if we didn't leave immediately, she'd call security. Woh.

I asked if it was because of his status. She refused to say. Rather than being granted an audience with the Attending, the next thing I knew, there was a big, fatass rent-a-cop with his hand on his gun saying if we didn't leave then, then the next call would be to the sheriff with a complaint of trespassing.

We didn't raise a fuss at any time -- we were too shocked. Here was a man with a fever, smothering, quite blue, and they turned him out. He had Medicare and Medicaid, so there wasn't a question of them getting paid. It was the county hospital, plus he had Ryan White. We quietly left. There was no alternative. I'd do him no good in jail for trespassing and he would certainly have died there.

Long and short, they simply didn't want to deal with him and that was it. Going up the chain only infuriated the staff worse and they threatened to call the law on us simply for asking for treatment. Worse, for having the temerity for politely asking for fair treatment -- even knowing they'd be paid.

So, gently as I can relate, it doesn't always do good to try to go up the chain. When one is indigent, one has no rights and the Charge and the Resident are gods who can choose. If they decide not to treat you for whatever (religious) reason, there isn't anything in this world you can do about it. I have kin in the medical profession who work with HIV patients; one started a project for HIV care, one of the state's first. I was advised in no uncertain terms not to push any further, lest I ensure that he get blacklisted and never receive any care at all. He did get to see his ID that week, but just in the nick of time. A once-strapping, 195# beefy, body-builder-type had wasted down to 155# by the time he got through that bout. Years later, he's just now catching back up.

Things are different now, I'm relieved to report. Quite soon after that I managed to find a good job in another part of the state. My beloved has managed to be placed in the care of some fantastic docs at Duke where he has gotten incredibly good and remarkably progressive care. But the hurt from that past experience has left a mark because I know for a fact that people -- good and deserving people -- go through it each and every day. We no longer have to fight and grovel for care -- but we personally know people who still do.

You're welcome to PM me. We've made some remarkable friends in the medical profession along the way. I do sincerely thank you for fighting the good fight. I know your heart is in the right place and we need more docs like you who know how to fight and are willing to. We really, really do.

Information is the best weapon anyone can have. But everyone's situation is different and climbing the chain can be a very, very dangerous thing for some people to do -- even if they are in every way right and correct to do so.

And that is why your statement is absolutely correct -- we must have universal health care. Human dignity and human decency alone demand it.

[FM Arouet666]

52. Well, all I can say is sick.

I am sorry for sounding so idealistic, certainly was not my intention. Your right, the real world is much more complex. I have seen my share of ignorance and intolerance in medicine. Sometimes you have to weigh your options carefully. Your story reminded me of medical school.

I recall a child in the early 90s, about 3 or 4 years old, African American, HIV+ progressing to AIDS, mom abandoned him and was mixed up on drugs.
My future wife kind of adopted him in the ward because no one else would show him any attention. We would go visit at lunch time during our pediatric rotation. Some of the residents avoided the child and any other HIV+ patient, some making very ignorant remarks. I recall being so pissed off toward the chief resident because he went on a homophobic rant when he found out the little kid was HIV+. I wanted to report him, actually I wanted to deck him, then report him. But I didn't. Your right, sometimes you have to know when making waves will not help your situation. Medical students who complained risked not passing or getting black balled in other rotations. I was afraid to stand up and I remained silent.

I remember the last day of our rotation. We saw the little guy in his crib. He was laughing and playing until my wife told him we had to go and wouldn't be able to visit for awhile, the rotation was over. He cried and cried. We were all he had at the time, no family ever visited and only a few nurses ever paid him any attention. My wife rotated back through the same hospital months later and found out that he had died of AIDS. I like to think the few months we showed the little guy some affection made a difference some how. I wonder if taking a stand against the resident staff would have helped change attitudes about HIV patients. I do know that this event helped shape the attitudes of two young doctors.

Sorry for the rant, your story made me sick to my stomach and this just popped into my head. The medical staff you dealt with reminded me of the indifference most of staff showed toward this little child.

What we need is universal human dignity and human decency which I suspect will be harder to come by than universal health care.

[RedLetterRev]

78. Don't be sorry

because that idealism is part of what makes you a more than a good doc -- it makes you a healer. There's a difference.

When I get angry at the mill the medical profession has become, I run into a healer and the world is right again. I know there are still good folks out there, despite the bean-counters and (dys)functionaries, who are still taking the Oath seriously, who are still making a difference. I just wanted you to know that your efforts are appreciated, in the same way that I appreciate the efforts of the committed Dems and Progressives on DU who scratch a line in the earth with their toes and quietly stand firm for dignity.

You and your wife remind me of a couple I knew way-back-when in Chicago, when I was a puppy working at the University of Chicago. They were busting their butts becoming good docs, coming into the apartment building with sleep in their eyes, talking about their cases whilst riding the elevator; chattering when things worked out well, holding hands quietly when they didn't. I often thought how lucky their future patients would be. Reading your posts now, I suspect yours are pretty durn lucky now.

So don't apologize for that idealism. That's the difference between a millworker and a healer. Do what you do, do well. When we lead by example, as we will in the coming 4, 8, or hopefully next 16 years, the rest will follow.

[Duppers]

81. both of your stories, yours and FM-666, have touched me

I'm a rather emotional person anyway, but I now have a big lump in my throat.

I love you both.

:grouphug:

[Hannah Bell]

64. Don't say it gently - say it loudly, it's a crime, & those people who kicked you out are criminals.

I had a similar experience; i had a relative undergoing surgery - & before the scheduled date, it came out that the scheduled anethesiologist was under investigation for using his own drugs - but still working at the hospital.

I went to the doc & said i didn't want him working on my relative. I was told in a very nasty way that that was fine, but then my relative would just have to wait however long it took - months even - for his surgery - it was for gangrene.

I was young, & so shocked at the nasty response & the threat to what seemed like a totally reasonable request, I backed down.

I went into my field because of that (& some similar experiences) - thinking i could make a difference.

I found that in the hospital setting, for the most part, i couldn't. The structure of power is too strong, & most of the time no one will buck it. I found that except on the margins, i couldn't either - which is why i left. i couldn't stand the lies, waste, fraud & hypocrisy.

But most people don't believe me when i talk about it. Because "those people care."

a lot of them do, some don't, but it doesn't matter. The main determinant of behavior is the structure of power & protocol.

[goforit]

35. I work in a hospital and EVERY hospital in the US has MRSA!!! Only if your

immune system is down or you have a open wound and are vulnerable to
this infection.
Acinobactor is another bacteria that has run rampant. But once again only if a person
is susceptable is only when their chances are high of getting it.

Every human soul carries staph and/or strep on their bodies.
Their are alot of fungi out there as well. For instance, if you own birds or even like
to feed pigeons in the park and accidently inhale bird poop dust you can have a fungal pneumonia
that make take up to six to ten months to get rid of and you will have to take meds that could damage
your liver/kidneys.

Hospitals carry bacterias that cause infection, but your home does too.
The trick is to eat well, exercise well and take vitamins. Keep your immune system up.

[bobbolink]

42. Read Helen Bell's posts.... NOT in other countries.

We must be careful about swallowing too much of the happy talk from the "health" corporations...

[uppityperson]

46. Info on Europe posted above, here is link.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4313096&mesg_id=4314388

Yes, MRSA is something to be aware of, but it is not something to freak out about or bash health care providers about.

[Hannah Bell]

65. Every country has it in the general environment, but some have been more successful

than others in reducing the rates of hospital-acquired infections & death/disability rates.

Others, like the UK & US, have seen rates climb.

This is about infection control procedures, not vitamins.

The main bearing vitamins, etc. have on the subject is that US/UK/Israel, etc. & other countries with high rates of hospital-acquired infection/death is:

They have higher POVERTY rates, & poor people are more likely to be in poorer health & more infection prone.

[ileus]

50. It's spreading in ALL hospitals....

[Cetacea]

56. Correction: It's spreading in all communities

Hundreds of schools were shut down last year due to the NEW STRAIN: CA(Community acquired) MRSA. It was deemed an epidemic that has killed more people than AIDS has in a two year period. The CDC is suffering from lack of funding (thanks Bush) and there were no formal reporting requirements in place as of last year.

Both my neighbor and myself contracted CA-MRSA within one week of each other.

The media has done it's job as there were hundreds if not thousands of articles in the major newspapers and they ran for a very long time.

I posted this information a year or more ago and was roasted on this site.

MRSA is going to kill and/or sicken a
lot more people than AIDs or the friggin Bird Flu.

[Hannah Bell]

66. no.

The Sunday TimesFebruary 4, 2007

Dutch doctor: why you are failing on MRSA

Sarah-Kate Templeton, Health Correspondent

AS a doctor who has worked in Britain and Holland, Hajo Grundmann could not have a better insight on why the two countries are so far apart in the battle against the superbug MRSA.

While Holland, along with Norway, has emerged as the nation with the lowest rate of MRSA in Europe, Britain has one of the highest, together with Cyprus, Malta and Portugal.

In Norway and Holland less than 1% of all bloodstream infections are drug resistant, while in Britain the figure is 44%. Figures compiled by the European Antimicrobial Resistance Surveillance System, which Grundmann co-ordinates, show that Britain has higher rates of the superbug than all comparable European countries, including Germany, France and Spain.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3856379.stm


The "it's the same everywhere" meme is false. There are things we could do, but they're not *profitable*. That's the crux of it.

[Cetacea]

84. True. There is also confusion regarding CA MRSA versus MRSA

The CDC has been pretty vocal about the lack of funding.

[Miss Chybil]

55. MRSA is a problem all over the world - Here's how you can help protect yourself.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/mrsa/DS00735/DSECTION=prevention

Prevention

Hospitals are fighting back against MRSA infection by using surveillance systems that track bacterial outbreaks and by investigating products such as antibiotic-coated catheters and gloves that release disinfectants.

Still, the best way to prevent the spread of germs is for health care workers to wash their hands frequently, to properly disinfect hospital surfaces and to take other precautions, such as wearing gowns and gloves when working with people infected with resistant bacteria.

In the hospital, people who are infected or colonized with MRSA are placed in isolation to prevent the spread of MRSA. Visitors and health care workers caring for people in isolation may be required to wear protective garments and must follow strict hand-washing procedures.

What you can do in the hospital

Here's what you can do to protect yourself, family members or friends from health care-associated infections.

Ask all hospital staff to wash their hands or use an alcohol-based hand sanitizer before touching you — every time.

Wash your own hands frequently.

Make sure that intravenous tubes and catheters are inserted under sterile conditions, for example, the person inserting them wears a gown, gloves and mask and sterilizes your skin first.

What you can do in your community

Protecting yourself from MRSA in your community — which might be just about anywhere — may seem daunting, but these common-sense precautions can help reduce your risk:

Wash your hands. Careful hand washing remains your best defense against germs. Scrub hands briskly for at least 15 seconds, then dry them with a disposable towel and use another towel to turn off the faucet. Carry a small bottle of hand sanitizer containing at least 60 percent alcohol for times when you don't have access to soap and water.

Keep personal items personal. Avoid sharing personal items such as towels, sheets, razors, clothing and athletic equipment. MRSA spreads on contaminated objects as well as through direct contact.

Keep wounds covered. Keep cuts and abrasions clean and covered with sterile, dry bandages until they heal. The pus from infected sores may contain MRSA, and keeping wounds covered will help keep the bacteria from spreading.

Shower after athletic games or practices. Shower immediately after each game or practice. Use soap and water. Don't share towels.

Sit out athletic games or practices if you have a concerning infection. If you have a wound that's draining or appears infected — for example, is red, swollen, warm to the touch or tender — consider sitting out athletic games or practices until the wound has healed.

Sanitize linens. If you have a cut or sore, wash towels and bed linens in a washing machine set to the "hot" water setting (with added bleach, if possible) and dry them in a hot dryer. Wash gym and athletic clothes after each wearing.

Get tested. If you have a skin infection that requires treatment, ask your doctor if you should be tested for MRSA. Doctors may prescribe drugs that aren't effective against antibiotic-resistant staph, which delays treatment and creates more resistant germs. Testing specifically for MRSA may get you the specific antibiotic you need to effectively treat your infection.

Use antibiotics appropriately. When you're prescribed an antibiotic, take all of the doses, even if the infection is getting better. Don't stop until your doctor tells you to stop. Don't share antibiotics with others or save unfinished antibiotics for another time. Inappropriate use of antibiotics, including not taking all of your prescription and overuse, contributes to resistance. If your infection isn't improving after a few days of taking an antibiotic, contact your doctor.

[Hannah Bell]

67. no. the rate of resistant infections in britain is 44%, in the us somewhat less,

in holland 1%.

The difference isn't random, it's attributable to different protocols.

Holland's rate used to be higher.


Effective control measures are well-understood:

Isolation of MRSA carriers identified by clinical cultures is insufficient to control MRSA. However, combined with proactive search (of high-risk patients on admission and/or contacts of index patients), it will maintain prevalence levels <1%.

Concerted implementation of S&D in countries with high nosocomial endemicity reduces nosocomial prevalence to <1% within 6 years.

Stepwise implementation of control measures can reduce isolation capacities needed. RDT can reduce isolation needs by >90% in low-endemic settings and by 20% in high-endemic settings.

Surveillance of colonization and improved hand hygiene can markedly increase control efficacy.

These findings strongly suggest that:

(i) causality exists between S&D and low MRSA prevalence;

(ii) isolating MRSA carriers identified by clinical cultures as a single measure is insufficient for control;

(iii) a combined approach of isolation and screening confers efficacy; and

(iv) MRSA-prevalence levels can be reduced to <1% in high-endemic settings by S&D or a stepwise approach to interventions.


http://www.pnas.org/content/103/14/5620.abstract


But all i hear in this thread is "health professionals" telling people it's endemic everywhere & it's the responsibility of patients & visitors to wash their hands.

BULLSHIT.

[Miss Chybil]

68. If you notice my post, which was taken from the Mayo Clinic website

tells patients to ask "health professionals" to wash their hand before touching them - the patient - with either soap and water, or alcohol-based hand gels. Washing one's own hands is a very effective way to keep from picking up something in a hospital room and then rubbing it on a compromised area of one's own skin, or on someone else's skin. I'm sure even in Holland they do it.

Obviously, there are more steps to be taken before we can reach the success they have found in Holland, but washing our hands will be the first step on that ladder.

[Hannah Bell]

71. My bitch isn't with you. It's with the implication that visitors & patients

are responsible for the rise in hospital infection rates, & responsible for controlling them.

"First step" - Handwashing - duh? It's like we've been transported back to the 18th century.

The reasons for the rise in infection are pretty much known, & the methods for stopping them known also.

Little fact sheets on visitor handwashing are cheap, & make it look like someone's doing something.

[bertman]

57. Thanks for posting this, Sixmile.

[Awsi Dooger]

69. My mom contracted MRSA recently and may need dialysis for the rest of her life

This thread was spooky to open. In late June my mother, 73 years old, fell and broke her ankle in three places. She was admitted to Doctor's Hospital in Coral Gables. They had to wait two weeks to operate, allowing the swelling to subside. They decided to use an external fixator.

Eventually she was transferred to a rehab center. She has other problems, physical and cognitive, so she couldn't come home immediately. Several weeks later she was scheduled to be released but the doctor ordered otherwise at literally the last minute. My mom had contracted MRSA in the rehab center.

Since that point it has been one setback after another. Her kidneys failed and she gained 65 pounds in water retention. They tried to hold off on dialysis but the diuretics stopped working. Eventually they were forced to use ultrafiltration and then dialysis. My mom has lost the water weight but she has less than 10% kidney function. There was no problem in that regard before the broken ankle. She has Hepatitis C so there was liver damage but her kidneys had always checked out fine.

On Thursday my mom will finally have the ankle fixator removed. She was recently diagnosed with a bacteria, apparently another hospital disease due to a catheter, something called serratia (sp?) My dad wants to get her home as soon as possible. One doctor is optimistic she can be weaned off dialysis and her kidneys will recover enough to enable that, but the other primary doctor is not as optimistic.

I'm sick about it because the more I read about dialysis the worse it sounds, supposedly 50% survival rate of 3 years given her age.

[Hannah Bell]

72. supposedly 50% survival rate of 3 years

fwiw, i'd get more info on that - 73 isn't that old, & dialysis usually fairly well tolerated.

one other thing - it's possible to go into kidney failure when you're ill/infected & recover sufficient function once the infection clears.

serratia is just the name of a bacteria - she's got infection.

[Awsi Dooger]

73. I saw that 50% on a table

Actually it was 51.5% and the data was about 9 years old and indications were the results were steadily improving. Depressing, nonetheless.

I've read that you need to get above 15% to get off dialysis, preferably closer to 20%. My mom is just below 10% so I have hope. She has had several months of antibiotics to treat the MRSA. Once the antibiotics are no longer needed the doctors think the kidneys will begin to improve. I was worried she had fallen to 5% or less so I was actually encouraged by the 10% quote on Friday.

[FM Arouet666]

79. You do have cause to worry but.

73 years old by itself does not give enough information to judge prognosis. You state that she had normal kidney function prior to this episode, but did she have risk factors for kidney disease? Is she diabetic?, if so her risk is considerable. If not, was she extremely sick throughout her infection? A person, even at 73, who has normal kidney function but goes into acute renal failure because of some inciting event such as a severe MRSA infection would be expected to recover more so than someone with significant risk of kidney disease under the same circumstances. Your best source of information is the nephrologist, kidney specialist, you will have to have one involved in your mom's care if she is on dialysis(HD).

Serratia is a bacteria and typically is treatable with antibiotics and is sensitive to many types of antibiotics. However, the longer your mom is on HD the more she is at risk of catheter infections.

I do not recall the exact survival rate for HD in your mom's age group but I would not be surprised if it was 50% at 3 years. HD is not well tolerated long term, especially in the elderly and especially if the patient has a number of other medical conditions.

Talk with your nephologist they are the most qualified in giving you a prognosis.

[Awsi Dooger]

91. Yes, she is diabetic

As of a few years ago. In fact, she was scared when they finally put her on insulin, and did not do it or tell anyone. We had no idea for nearly a year, when she collapsed and had to be hospitalized. Her blood sugar was over 1000. The doctors said she was fortunate to recover.

Unfortunately my mom's mental condition has her acting like a child in many respects, seeing what she can get away with, like eating ice cream and sneaking candy into her room, instead of being concerned with her health. She will not allow my dad to attend her medical appointments or psychiatric appointments, and he has had no luck insisting on it through the specialists. They allow my mom to smile and convince them she is doing fine. It's been maddening.

She was not particularly sick during the MRSA infection. Her worst period was swelling when her weight rose due to water retention but before they decided on ultrafiltration. At the height of her weight gain she basically could not move and her hands were too swollen to use utensils or a telephone.

Thank you for the information and suggestions. :)

[Captiosus]

70. As a MRSA Cellulitis survivor, may I say it was the scariest

point in my life. Especially since I was uninsured and no one knew how the hell I got CA-MRSA in the first place. I don't share clothes with anyone, I don't participate in any group sports or belong to a gym and I hadn't been hospitalized but I ended up with it anyway. I never overused antibiotics and, prior to this event in February of this year, I hadn't had antibiotics, at all, for over 10 years.

Treatment nearly bankrupted my family, the medication made me absolutely miserable for two months (sometimes I thought death couldn't be worse than the way the antibiotic cocktail made me feel), I ultimately lost 17 pounds during the ordeal and the sore on my foot where the infection had been its worst has never fully 'healed' (and I was told it never will). I had to regularly see an infectious disease doctor for checkups and after the infection was "gone", I had to use special body wash (pHisohex) for two months.

It was scary to get a disease that could have killed me and to this day no one knows why or how it happened.

Edit: Forgot to add, ever since that episode I've been highly paranoid of having it happen again, especially every time I see the place on my foot where the sore was.

[barbtries]

74. MRSA

is a bacteria not a virus. having said that, thank you for posting this. i work at a firm that is developing a new drug that will fight MRSA. i'll bring this to the attention of my boss. bookmarking your thread for that purpose.

[sixmile]

88. Thanks for pointing that out

Bacteria. Not a virus. No less scary, though.

[DeSwiss]

80. An alternative solution to consider....

The below research links are to articles, scientific studies and abstracts which report that the tetrahydrocannabinol and cannabinoids in marijuana can halt the spread the MRSA bacteria and numerous other types of cancer cells -- including:

MRSA: http://www.webmd.com/news/20080904/marijuana-chemicals-may-fight-mrsa

Prostate Cancer: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T36-3XFTGPR-X&_coverDate=09%2F24%2F1999&_alid=422767905&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_qd=1&_cdi=4938&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=1c29920efb1acb800723560310e9004e

Breast Cancer: http://mct.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/6/11/2921

Lung Cancer:   http://www.nature.com/onc/journal/v27/n3/abs/1210641a.html

Pancreatic Cancer:   http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/66/13/6748

Brain Cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16804518

And in addition to the cancer research, here's a report from an Austrailian newspaper about a French study that found that cannabidiol in marijuana may prevent the development of prion diseases such as BSE because it inhibits the accumulation of prion proteins in infected mice and sheep. Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22430980-23109,00.html

[sixmile]

93. WSJ two hours ago

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122513986888873305.html

Staph germs more difficult to treat-studies say

[knitter4democracy]

94. Of course it is. All forms of it are.

They're spreading throughout our communities, hospitals, jails, you name it.

The reality is, though, if we live in fear of getting something like this and stop touching anything, clean everything with bleach, and try to make our environment as bug-free as possible, some studies suggest that we'll get smacked with autoimmune diseases as our bodies start thinking our own bodies are foreign invaders that need to die.

We just have to be smart about this, know what a MRSA lesion looks like and get it checked, and fight like hell for national health care so that no one dies from something like MRSA because they couldn't afford to get checked, let alone get treated.