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I just talked with my 19 year old godson deployed in Afghanistan using Yahoo IM.

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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 01:32 PM
Original message
I just talked with my 19 year old godson deployed in Afghanistan using Yahoo IM.
He is in the Korengal Valley, maybe the worst place to be deployed anywhere and he thinks that things are going well, that the people there like and support our troops and that they have the border with Pakistan secured. He believes that only people who have been there should make decisions about Afghanistan and that civilian leadership should get out of the way. He hates politics and so thankfully I am sure that he did not vote. It was a bizarre conversation and I have heard nobody else make the claims that he did about how things are going there.
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iamthebandfanman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. thank the war in iraq for the situation in afghanistan n/t
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. Why did you say "thankfully . . . he did not vote"?
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Well, clearly it's alright if people who disagree with us don't/can't vote, right?
Oy.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. DU rules prevent me from posting an honest reply. n/t
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. Yes/no. I would be perfectly happy if people who leaned Republican
would abstain from voting for any reason. There is no equivalence between choosing not to vote and being prevented from voting.
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. considering that everything he writes is monitored...
I'm wondering if that's what he really believes. :shrug:
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I think that is what he really believed because he got pissed at me and simply left.
I reminded him that it's the Constitution that put civilians in charge of the military and that he took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. I told him if he was unwilling to do that he maybe should find another country to live in and he replied that he would do that. I don't think he can see the forest for the trees.
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plaintiff Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. He sounds like a prick.
:shrug:
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. I do not know where his head is at, but he was pretty indoctrinated by the military
before he enlisted because he attended one of those Nation Guard challenge schools for troubled youths. One of my problems with him is that I have sent him probably a dozen boxes and spent hundreds of dollars in doing it and he just cannot bring himself to thank me or almost anybody for what he gets in spite of the fact that he is online nearly everyday and logs into his MySpace account. His own mother is so disappointed in his attitude that although she does send him some stuff she has taken to sponsoring a few other soldiers there who express their gratitude for what they get.
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plaintiff Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. Ah well that pretty much confirms it. He's a prick.
You should tell him I said so. :D
(and I served in the military long before he was a gleam in the milkman's eye) :evilgrin:
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. He is a kid who is self centered, has gotten everything and appreciates nothing.
Somewhere on this earth there is a black hole that is filled with all the stuff which he has "lost" throughout his life. His mom spent a good deal of money to buy him a laptop computer to take with him and only asked that he would keep in touch, but he doesn't. There has been times when he is not heard from for weeks, but you can see that he often logged onto his MySpace account. I have sent him stuff and asked him about it and get the reply, "I get too many boxes". That kind of answer is what has caused his mom to send more stuff to other soldiers. I have known him most of his life and his attitude is very disappointing.
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. My nephew is going to Afghanistan next summer.
His specialty is a high risk area and I'm scared for him. I'm beginning to get a glimmer of what military families go through. We owe them so much.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. My godson will be getting out in August unless his stay is extended. n/t
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I hope his stay is not extended and he comes home.
The situation there is not hopeful. What a mess! It's the * Legacy.

FWIW, my nephew is pretty much a *bot also. He loves playing army -- and he's 36 with a wife and little girl.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. you seriously have to send him this article
what a freakin eye opener. NO western diplomat thinks thinks are better than "grim".....


How We Lost the War We Won
A journey into Taliban-controlled Afghanistan



http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23612315/how_we_lost_the_war_we_won/print

NIR ROSEN

Posted Oct 30, 2008 9:19 AM


• Embedded with the Taliban: Photos and commentary by Nir Rosen
• Video Interview: Nir Rosen on his experience in Afghanistan

The highway that leads south out of Kabul, the capital of Afghanistan, passes through a craggy range of arid, sand-colored mountains with sharp, stony peaks. Poplar trees and green fields line the road. Nomadic Kuchi women draped in colorful scarves tend to camels as small boys herd sheep. The hillsides are dotted with cemeteries: rough-hewn tombstones tilting at haphazard angles, multicolored flags flying above them. There is nothing to indicate that the terrain we are about to enter is one of the world's deadliest war zones. On the outskirts of the capital we are stopped at a routine checkpoint manned by the Afghan National Army. The wary soldiers single me out, suspicious of my foreign accent. My companions, two Afghan men named Shafiq and Ibrahim, convince the soldiers that I am only a journalist. Ibrahim, a thin man with a wispy beard tapered beneath his chin, comes across like an Afghan version of Bob Marley, easygoing and quick to smile. He jokes with the soldiers in Dari, the Farsi dialect spoken throughout Afghanistan, assuring them that everything is OK.

As we drive away, Ibrahim laughs. The soldiers, he explains, thought I was a suicide bomber. Ibrahim did not bother to tell them that he and Shafiq are midlevel Taliban commanders, escorting me deep into Ghazni, a province largely controlled by the spreading insurgency that now dominates much of the country.

Until recently, Ghazni, like much of central Afghanistan, was considered reasonably safe. But now the province, located 100 miles south of the capital, has fallen to the Taliban. Foreigners who venture to Ghazni often wind up kidnapped or killed. In defiance of the central government, the Taliban governor in the province issues separate ID cards and passports for the Taliban regime, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. Farmers increasingly turn to the Taliban, not the American-backed authorities, for adjudication of land disputes.

By the time we reach the town of Salar, only 50 miles south of Kabul, we have already passed five tractor-trailers from military convoys that have been destroyed by the Taliban. The highway, newly rebuilt courtesy of $250 million, most of it from U.S. taxpayers, is pocked by immense craters, most of them caused by roadside bombs planted by Taliban fighters. As in Iraq, these improvised explosive devices are a key to the battle against the American invaders and their allies in the Afghan security forces, part of a haphazard but lethal campaign against coalition troops and the long, snaking convoys that provide logistical support.

We drive by a tractor-trailer still smoldering from an attack the day before, and the charred, skeletal remains of a truck from an attack a month earlier. At a gas station, a crowd of Afghans has gathered. Smoke rises from the road several hundred yards ahead.

"Jang," says Ibrahim, who is sitting in the front passenger seat next to Shafiq. "War. The Americans are fighting the Taliban."

Advertisement

Shafiq and Ibrahim use their cellphones to call their friends in the Taliban, hoping to find out what is going on. Suddenly, the chatter of machine-gun fire erupts, followed by the thud of mortar fire and several loud explosions that shake the car. I flinch and duck in the back seat, cursing as Shafiq and Ibrahim laugh at me.

"Tawakkal al Allah," Shafiq lectures me. "Depend on God."

This highway — the only one in all Afghanistan — was touted as a showpiece by the Bush administration after it was rebuilt. It provides the only viable route between the two main American bases, Bagram to the north and Kandahar to the south. Now coalition forces travel along it at their own risk. In June, the Taliban attacked a supply convoy of 54 trucks passing through Salar, destroying 51 of them and seizing three escort vehicles. In early September, not far from here, another convoy was attacked and 29 trucks were destroyed. On August 13th, a few days before I pass through Salar, the Taliban staged an unsuccessful assassination attempt on the U.S.-backed governor of Ghazni, wounding two of his guards.

As we wait at the gas station, Shafiq and Ibrahim display none of the noisy indignation that Americans would exhibit over a comparable traffic jam. To them, a military battle is a routine inconvenience, part of life on the road. Taking advantage of the break, they buy a syrupy, Taiwanese version of Red Bull called Energy at a small shop next door. At one point, two green armored personnel carriers from NATO zip by, racing toward Kabul. Shafiq and Ibrahim laugh: It looks like the coalition forces are fleeing the battle.

"Bulgarians," Shafiq says, shaking his head in amusement.

After an hour, the fighting ends, and we get back in the car. A few minutes later, we pass the broken remains of a British supply convoy. Dozens of trucks — some smoldering, others still ablaze — line the side of the road, which is strewn with huge chunks of blasted asphalt. The trucks carried drinks for the Americans, Ibrahim tells me as we drive past. Hundreds of plastic water bottles with white labels spill out of the trucks, littering the highway.

Farther down the road, American armored vehicles block our path. Smoke pours from the road behind them. Warned by other drivers that the Americans are shooting at approaching cars, Shafiq slowly maneuvers to the front of the line and stops. When the Americans finally move, we all follow cautiously, like a nervous herd. We drive by yet more burning trucks. Ibrahim points to three destroyed vehicles, the remains of an attack four days earlier.

A few miles later, at a lonely desert checkpoint manned by the Afghan army, several soldiers with AK-47s make small talk with Shafiq and Ibrahim, asking them about the battle before waving us through. As night falls, we pass a police station. We have reached Ghazni province.

"From now on, it's all Taliban territory," Ibrahim tells me. "The Americans and police don't come here at night."

Shafiq laughs. "The Russians were stronger than the Americans," he says. "More fierce. We will put the Americans in their graves."
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. At the beginning of our conversation I told him I would send him the PBS Frontline episode
that was on last week, "The War Briefing" which had a journalist and photographer embedded with a unit right there where he is in the Korengal Valley which is the worst place in Afghanistan to be. Ultimately I don't think he would like it because it does not agree with his beliefs.
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dhpgetsit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
7. Interesting.
Maybe the best thing we can do for Afghanistan is flood it with communications infrastructure. Like cell towers, fiberoptic lines and Internet access.

Oh, and solar panels.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Even where my godson is at he has internet access.
I see him online nearly every day, but I don't guess he will want to be talking with me anytime soon again.
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dhpgetsit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. I can see his point of view.
It is really annoying when someone who doesn't know shit about what's going on is calling the shots. But you hear that from WWII vets and anyone else that has served. That's life in the military.

My point is, we have no real interest in occupying Afghanistan. With good communications, we can get tips about the location of Taliban and Al Quaeda targets. Maybe we can use UAVs and Special Forces teams to take them out. Do we really need guys just patrolling the roads and manning outposts?
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Contrary to what "The War Briefing" said that the insurgents and Taliban kill civilians
for ratting them out, by godson says that they are always informing on the Taliban. Afghanistan is where superpowers go to be brought to their knees. We cannot control a country larger than Iraq with 100,000 fewer troops than are in Iraq. We had 500,000 troops in the comparatively smaller Vietnam and they could not win the war either. This country has great difficulty in winning a war unless the opposing army stands and fights battles en masse. Civilians sent troops to Afghanistan and civilians will bring them home. I hope Obama is smart enough to learn from history regarding Afghanistan.
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ACTION BASTARD Donating Member (765 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. The 'Stan has sent every invading superpower packing
Even Alexander the Great couldn't defeat these people and he employed the harshest and most cruelest tactics imaginable. The arrogance to think we would just take a couple of weeks to route them is ridiculous.

The 'Stan is a meatgrinder.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
13. I can understand why you didn’t answer #2. The last thing our troops need in combat are
conversations with loved ones about why the troops are fighting and possibly dying for their country that ordered them into an unnecessary war.

I assume you know that any casual comment made by a loved one to a troop might cause her/him to hesitate in combat and cause her/him to be injured or killed.

Have a nice day; I hope your godson can after your conversation.
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SheWhoMustBeObeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
16. My nephew is in the same vicinity
He knows I'm liberal, I know he's conservative and that's that. I never talk politics. I just ask him what he wants in packages from home. He's my beloved nephew in a dangerous place, is all that matters to me.

USPS makes it fairly cheap to send packages to military bases. Flat rate boxes are free and ship for 11.95 (though the one I send yesterday was 9.13, I don't know why). Here are things that are always appreciated:
Candy (any kind that won't melt)
Powdered drink mixes
DVDs
Sanitary wipes (baby wipes work)
Small toiletries
T-shirts in dark colors
Favorite magazines

I also save issues of The Onion and local free papers - they're good for packing and give him a taste of home.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. If your nephew is anywhere near or in the Korengal Valley check out this site:
http://forum.anysoldier.com/forums/t/6640.aspx?PageIndex=1

AnySoldier.com is a good place to go to learn what the troops need and who you may support. I read the site, but I do not go there because they do not allow any political discussion of any kind and I could not go along with that kind of restriction.

I always send the flat rate boxes because they offer the best deal for as much as you can fit in them. I sent 3 boxes last week, 2 with food and 1 with warm winter clothing. Tomorrow I will mail a box of chocolates since it is now cool enough to do that. Yesterday I went and bought a lot of Halloween candy on sale.
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SheWhoMustBeObeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Thanks
He is in that province but I couldn't say if he is in that valley.

There is fierce competition for his online time, so his immediate family passes messages along. Warm clothing is a good suggestion - I'm going to start looking for deals. Here are two sites I like for bargain hunting:
www.dealcatcher.com
www.slickdeals.net

And here's a site that posts ads for the big sales that start the day after Thanksgiving: tgiblackfriday.com/
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. The reason I happen to catch my godson is that I usually do not work during the day
and since Afghanistan is around 9 or so hours ahead of us in the central time zone I often catch him in the late morning or early afternoon when most others are working or in school.

One place I would recommend for all kinds of stuff is at any Dollar Store. You can get all kinds of stuff. In one of the last boxes I sent a very good balaclava and some mittens and some hunting gloves where you can keep the trigger finger out. I have sent some good Wigwam socks to help keep the feet warm. The AnySoldier.com site is a good place to find out all kinds of informations about what to send, what is needed, and where to find things.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. I've been in your nephew's position and I have loved ones in harms way this moment. You'll never
Edited on Sun Nov-02-08 03:05 PM by jody
know how much you mean to your nephew.

Toast to you for understanding what each trooper faces and politics don't matter when the bullets start flying.
:toast:
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SheWhoMustBeObeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. It was his choice, I don't agree with it but I am not him
He was just a kid when 9-11 occurred and it impacted him strongly.

The only political thing I've ever pushed on him and his sisters is the importance of voting. It was me not their parents who got the older ones to register in 04. I said It doesn't matter to me who you vote for (please not for Bush) but it's crucial that you get in the habit of voting (but please not for Bush). What did it get me? One enlisted and another one became a Ron Paul fanatic. Lol. Whaddaya gonna do?
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Wait until they get older, sometimes it may take decades. n/t
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #23
33. It is important to vote and I have encouraged my godson in the past to pay attention to politics.
I know he thinks that Bush is an idiot, but he is willingly and almost proudly ignorant about what is going on in the political world because he hates politics no matter how much it impacts his life. He is joyful about the New GI Bill of Rights which will give him an education when he gets out and I have told him that he should thank the Democrats for that. Unfortunately, had he voted he would be less than a low information voter--he would be about as close to a no information voter as one can get. He just doesn't care enough to be bothered to find out anything about political matters and so is not interested in voting. Considering his attitude I support him in that decision.
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DawgHouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
27. I hope he stays safe. n/t
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xochi Donating Member (191 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. I agree with this sentiment,
and my guess is that by the time he returns home he'll be at least a little more interested in politics than he currently says he is.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
29. If "only people who had been there" had made decisions about Afghanistan...
...we would never have gotten involved there in the first place.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
32. I would like to thank "Ignored" for all of their responses to this thread.
I have no idea what they said, but I am sure I had a very good reason to place them on my list and there they will stay.

Thanks to all the others who also took the time to respond.
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