Who else can we go after with the torches and pitchforks?

[KitchenWitch]

Mormons - Check!
Blacks - Check!
Freepers - Check!
etc.

Oh wait - there were Mormons and Blacks and just about all other groups that voted NO on Prop 8. Well, I am pretty sure the freepers were all YES on 8, but there were people in the other groups that did not vote to abolish rights.

Yes it was funded by the Mormon Church. Yes, I agree with doing what we can to assure that their tax exempt status is yanked. Yes, I do believe in participating in the protests against the Mormon Church, and any other church that condoned and encouraged the bigotry.

The ground game for NO on 8 was abysmal. Here in the "greater Los Angeles" market, there were a few YES ads on TV for over a week before any NO ads were aired. And the NO ads waited way too long to counter the arguments the YES ads were asserting. Not everyone in the world is as politically savvy as we are here at DU. So the arguments made by the YES on 8 campaign were effective. They were effective because they were not countered. Period. Quite frankly, NO on 8 did not have a significant and noticeable presence until about a week before the election. By then it was far too late.

Put the torches and pitchforks away, fight to get this thing overturned, and please, let us learn from the mistakes made by the campaign.

[Gman]

1. You forgot Rahm Emanuel?

...and the other evil DLC'ers that Obama had a secret blood pact with. (They cut their index fingers a little bit then pressed them together!)

[orleans]

3. eww. you can get germs that way! n/t

[flvegan]

2. Aww, but I just sharpened my pitchfork.

I never get to have any fun.

[KitchenWitch]

7. I know, sad, isn't it?

[smiley_glad_hands]

4. Are you trying to take away my torches and pitchforks? From my cold dead hands, my friend. eom

[leftofthedial]

5. each other

apparently

[cliffordu]

6. ME ME!!!! My turn!!!!!

[The Shadow]

8. Remember, Perception Is Everything!

Please forgive me in advance for what I am about to say here. First, I personally believe that proposition 8 is a despicable thing. I had hoped that it would not carry, in that the voters would see it for what it is, divisive and hate-filled.
That said, perception is in fact everything. I have to tell you that what I am seeing on TV from the protests and vandalism will turn folks away from those who wished prop 8 to be defeated. You can't blame this on the media, it's not their fault. I'm serious here folks, from someone who wanted so badly to see it defeated so that others may live in equality, even I am somewhat disturbed about everything I am seeing and hearing. It has even profusely invaded DU with all of the infighting I have seen over the past several days. People that see and hear some of the stuff on their TV may turn against you merely due to how they perceive you. Be careful, do not fan the flames of those who are against you as it may backfire. Use reasoned argument, strategically plan your attack so that people will be convinced in the righteousness of your cause. Educate people if need be. Because right now I am afraid that some of the tactics currently in use will only reinforce the argument of those that choose to hate and turn others against you. Yes We Can....Remember that!

[Lyric]

9. Understand that I am not talking about you specifically, KW, but

I am sick and damned tired of being pontificated at about how this is OUR fault because WE didn't take our civil rights "seriously enough." Yes, someone actually said that.

If I go to your house and steal your child, is it logical for anyone to blame *you* because you didn't have a strong enough deadbolt lock on the door? Does anyone blame the First Americans for having their land stolen from them, because they didn't "fight hard enough," or take the threat "seriously" enough? If I, as a woman, choose to walk home on a dark street and I get raped, would it be partially my own damned fault for not taking the threat of rape "seriously" enough? The civil rights of gay people in California (and nationwide) were STOLEN. Flat-out fucking taken right from underneath us. And a sizable contingent of DU wants to tsk-tsk at the gay people and say, "Well you should have worked harder for it. You didn't take the threat seriously enough. You didn't 'make the case' well enough." To hell that noise, and to hell anybody who buys into it. The blame for what happened can be spread pretty far around, but the people who are NOT to blame are the ones who were victimized by this horrific piece of legislation.

And just like we're now being "blamed" by a certain faction for Prop 8 passing AT ALL, we are ALSO being blamed for the upheaval on DU because some of us are resentful and hurt that many members of a fellow minority group, who know what oppression feels like, decided to do a little oppressing themselves. Nobody is claiming that ONLY Black people, or ONLY Latino people, or ONLY Mormons, are to blame. But all three of those groups are comprised of people that have been historically discriminated against themselves. Of *course* we are discussing those groups more than we're talking about the white WASPy snotrags who made up the largest chunk of Yes-On-8 voters--it HURTS more coming from people we expected at least a modicum of solidarity and empathy from. We *expected* WASPy conservatives to vote against us, but we didn't expect it from groups of people who know exactly how painful bigotry is. If there is more discussion here about those groups, it is NOT because we blame them "more," but more because *their* opposition HURTS more.

Why people here feel the need to spin it as racism or bigotry against religion is beyond me, other than some kind of insane PC panic. You wouldn't believe the "defenses" I've heard--everything from "religious freedom," to culture, to "Well gay men stole the snappy 'You go girl!" stuff from black women, so black women hate them." The frantic insanity of it just boggles the fucking mind.

If you want to know the real reason why Prop 8 passed, it's right there in plain view. The Democratic Party failed to defend gay rights in a powerful enough way--including the head of the party, our President-Elect. We have not addressed the homophobia that is rampant in certain cultures within the Dem Tent--and that includes everyone from religious people, to white Yuppies, to black and Latino people. It is worse in certain "rooms" of our Dem house, and we are too terrified of making an un-PC mistake to even start to address it. And most of all--WE have not made gay equality a party priority. We give passes to beloved politicians who waver on, or oppose, equality. We defend the viewpoints of "bigots" because we need their votes. We excuse, rather than confront. We don't seek to change minds and hearts--we run away for fear of losing elections. We do not even come CLOSE to fighting as hard for gay equality as we fight for racial and gender equality. THIS is why Prop 8 passed.

So long as we continue to give a pass to people who oppose the Constitutional rights of gay people, then gay people will NEVER have those rights respected. It's not taken "seriously" enough because WE--Americans--have not taken it seriously enough. Don't blame gay people for not being able to overcome the enormous advantage that the other side possesses. There just aren't ENOUGH of us. We need allies--the kind that aren't afraid to stand up beside us and inconvenience themselves in order to seek true justice.

If the "ground game" for No on 8 was abysmal, it's because a lot of people just don't consider gay rights a priority. That alone should be enough to make ANY progressive sick. What we needed was a modern version of the Freedom Riders--people of other cultures joining us in order to seek liberty and equality. We we GOT was more of a yawn than a shout, and now a shitload of blame. If this is the best that the Democratic Party can do for us, then the Democratic Party needs a swift kick in the ass.

[KitchenWitch]

10. I totally get that.

I really wish our campaign had been better organized by BOTH the Straight community and the GLBT community. We all need to work together, because these assholes are not going to just go away quietly.

And I agree completely about giving the Democratic Party a swift kick in the ass.

[last1standing]

11. I'd like to add Antidisestablishmentarianists.

Bastards one and all! Round 'em up, I say!!!!