Does anyone know anything about railroad track safety regulations?

[hedgehog]

New York State has had four trains derail in four months. Senator Schumer is calling for an investigation. Last week's involved several cars of propane and toluene that derailed and burned about 1/4 mile from Oneida. CSX is claiming that it's because they have to route these trains away from Washington, D.C. so the rails are carrying more traffic. I'm wondering if the Bush administration quietly lowered inspection standards or laid off regulators.

[whistle]

1. BushCo has been busy taking government out of the regulation

....and safety business....the bastards!

[hedgehog]

3. The last reference I can find is the set of regulations Clinton put through in 1998.

It looks like they traded stricter inspections of heavily used lines for fewer inspections on secondary lines. I just can't imagine that the main line across NYS would be considered a secondary line!

[Earth_First]

2. There were two in three weeks a month ago in Rochester...

Two of at least half a dozen I can recall offhand from memory in the past five years...

[hedgehog]

4. Did they happen in populated areas or rural areas?

How fast were the trains moving and did any of the cars spill chemicals or catch fire? The train going into Oneida was only moving 30MPH.

[Earth_First]

11. One in a suburb, one in a semi-rural area...

They were traveling at slower speeds, however they derailed none the less. In the most recent incident, it was claimed by CSX officials that a track inspection had been made the day BEFORE the derailment occured...

[Divernan]

5. My stepdad was chief mechanical officer for B&O RR

And even back in the 1960's, he told me the railbeds were in bad shape and that money wasn't being invested in maintaining them. I think that the trucking industry has very successfully diverted transportation funds to building and widening highways, while the railroads have barely managed to keep operating. I like our Rails to Trails bike paths across our state, but it is depressing to see how many mid-size/small communities lost their connections to nationwide freight pickups/deliveries when these lines were abandoned.

As far as passenger transport goes, I've ridden the trains in England, Ireland, The Czeck Republic, France & Germany. They are not loud, bumpy, bone-rattling & jerky like Amtrak- the rides were smooth and quiet, and the seating was far more comfortable and roomy than air coach seats. In fact, I found them as comfortable as first class air seats.

My dtr. just did a day business trip from Manhattan to Boston & return by train. It didn't take any more time by train than by air, when you factor in the trip to the airport/security delays,etc.

[Tansy_Gold]

6. I know nothing about safety regulations, but I can tell you

this much:

As recently as three years ago -- and I don't think tracks have been "repaired" much in the intervening time -- it was possible to remove by hand all the spikes holding any given rail to its tie on the stretch of track in Arizona made (in)famous by the Amtrak wreck in 1995. That's exactly what the "saboteurs" did, then hotwired the warning system back together. http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special21/articles/1009sabotage09.html


In the fall of 2004 I went rock-hunting along those same tracks, about a mile from the actual wreck site at Quail Springs Wash. Each plate that secures a rail to the tie has holes for three spikes. I didn't see a single plate that contained all three spikes; most had only two, some had only one. All were so loose they could easily be removed by hand, no tools required. The rail bed was liberally littered with rusty spikes that had presumably bounced or vibrated out of their plates, as well as with stray steel balls that had fallen out of the wheel bearings of rail cars.

This site is within seven miles of a major nuclear power plant and not too far from three or four conventional power plants. I'm not divulging any secrets here: anyone can drive out there, walk out there, hike, hunt, whatever.

So if there actually are any safety regulations, they really don't mean squat.

I have qualms about flying, given the state of transportation safety in this country, but I have even more qualms about riding the rails.

Tansy Gold, who gets pretty pissed about this.

[TheCowsCameHome]

7. I don't think the federal standards have been lowered, but CSX tries

to get away with the very minimum amount of maintainence all over the system.

[frogcycle]

8. Chances are that the railroad is a LOT more concerned

about track condition than any federal regulator. Whatever the fed is or is not doing is unlikley to have changed practices.

Derailmants happen frequently. Most are innocuous enough - one car popping off the tracks in a yard or on a side track. Main line derailments are much less frequent. These derailmants may or may not have been due to poor track maintenance. Many other factors can contribute. If the track conditions were to blame, it is likely to have been something undetectable through inspection. Weather may have contributed. Speed may have contributed. obviously, under-designed or poorly maintained track can just fall apart and dump a train, but that would be VERY blatant. I am certain they didn't use too light a rail, or shoddy ties, or inferior spikes, or insufficient rail anchors, or anything like that. Failure to replace deteriorating ties COULD contribute, but is a highly unlikely scenario. Derailments are, shall we say, not desireable occurances for profit-motivated businesses. Human error like mishandling the train, or possibly leaving a switch open or something like that is a more likely culprit that the track conditions. Also a defective car component - cracked wheel getting by inspection and breaking - something like that.

[whistle]

10. Those who operate trains and work on railroads want to see safety

...practices and inspections most assuredly, but the financial investors and corporate raiders care nothing about safety and only want to maximize profits, plunder the assets for cash returns, bankrupt the rail companies and move on

[A HERETIC I AM]

13. A sure fire way to maximize profits in railroading: Ignore safety and maintenance.

What a ridiculous statement.


"but the financial investors and corporate raiders care nothing about safety and only want to maximize profits, plunder the assets for cash returns, bankrupt the rail companies and move on"

The absurdity of that sentiment is just astounding.

You know, you are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

How the fuck do you "Plunder the assets for cash returns" if you are so cavalier about safety that the assets are in danger of being wrecked? How the hell is it possible to "Maximize profits" if the desired end result is bankruptcy? Selling short or buying a put option is no way to maximize profits.

Railroad accidents are just that - ACCIDENTS. Implying that investors in railroads don't care about safety is indicative of a lack of understanding of the industry and investing in general.

[MadMaddie]

9. Funds and inspections for infrastructure like RR Tracks

etc, have taken a hit over the last 6 years. There are not enough trained inspectors. The baby boom generation is getting ready to retire and that knowledge will be lost.

Pardon the expression "It's a train wreck ready to happen".

This is not the only industry that is suffering from lack of attention. The Ports, The Railroads and others are in dire straits because of this administration.

[frogcycle]

14. railroads inspect their own tracks.

no government funds. generally a track supervisor "rides the rails" over every inch of his territory every couple of days.

inspecting track is not "knowledge that will be lost"

The railroads have been fighting an uphill battle against government-subsidized barge traffic and trucking by way of Army Corps of Engineers building and maintaining the waterways and the interstate highway system built with federal funds for decades.

They pay their own way maintaining the right-of-way, frequently end up having to pay or crossing safety devices when a road is run over their tracks... whatever condition they are in stems not from bush but from decades of unfair treatment at the hands of the oil/trucking lobby

With all there is to blame on bush, this is probably not one of the top fifty. Try the cuts in meat inspectors, the lack of port security, the lack of enforcement of highway safety, cuts in air traffic controllers...

The rails are in generally better condition than most of the highway bridges

[DemoTex]

12. Robert Summwalt does.

NTSB. Bu$h appointee, but a great guy and a good friend of mine. So does Dr. DemoTex (my wife), but she is in SoCal this week on National Academy of Sciences business. Both are experts.

[hedgehog]

15. Thanks for the update, and good luck to your friends who are doing a thankless job!.

I suspect the situation is a mix of a lot of the comments from above. It's true the railroads are squeezed by the competition and by having to maintain their own road bed. It also seems to me that the railroads have always been run by financiers who are more interested in making money than running a rail road. Even back in the 19th century, the companies made money by selling real estate along the rails, not by running freight, although that didn't stop them from squeezing every penny from farmers that they could! I have no doubt that the people who actually work the rails understand safety and the costs of not putting safety first. The problem, as in so many other industries, is that the people running the show aren't engineers and don't understand that poor maintenance means that accidents WILL happen sooner or later. It takes a while for poor maintenance practices to cause an accident, and until the accident happens, the bean counters pat themselves on the back over all the savings they made by cutting the maintenance budget!

I lived on the B&O mainline through Akron when I was a kid, and I love trains. With my kids scattered along the New York Central (I guess it's CSX now) mainline from Buffalo to Albany, I sure wish we had better passenger service so they could get home more often.

[Rosemary2205]

16. The nation's infrastructure is falling apart - including railways

railroads, sewage systems, bridges, the power grid - you name it.

We keep bandaiding it all because the money is being spent on making rich guys richer instead. -- the working stiff is not the only thing being neglected by post-Reagan business and government.