US car corps: laying off here, expanding overseas. We should bail them out - for why?

[Hannah Bell]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/30/business/30auto.html?scp=6&sq=gm+china&st=nyt

GM building chinese research center.


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9900EED8163AF933A25753C1A9649C8B63&scp=5&sq=gm+china&st=nyt

GM & chinese partner to control korean daewoo


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/26/business/worldbusiness/26chevy.html?scp=11&sq=gm+china&st=nyt

chrysler to begin exporting whole autos to n. america.


look at the interconnections between global automakers. who is the "competition"?

How much difference is there between moving plant from detroit to the southern US, & moving it to china? Same anti-labor strategy. & they want you to pay for it.

[MikeNearMcChord]

1. No Bailout for companies that shit on American Workers, End of Story

[hobbit709]

2. Offshore the CEO's

Keep the workers here.

[dkofos]

4. JAIL THE CEO's

[jakefrep]

25. For what?

[JVS]

43. Aggravated panhandling

[AzDar]

3. K & R ...

[endarkenment]

5. 2-5,000,000 jobs for starters

which does not mean a bailout should not come with lots of strings attached.

[geomon666]

16. You seriously think they're going to hold those jobs if you pay them?

Come on now.

[Hannah Bell]

19. I was around for the chrysler bailout in '79. did a lot of good, didn't it?

so long as the law allows off-shoring, you're throwing $ into a hole.

just draining the public before the crash.

[Kolesar]

6. GM builds Buicks in China because they sell them in China

[truedelphi]

8. The original story when they first started schlepping jobs overseas

Was that the cost of the benefits that the unions demanded was prohibitively expensive.

Yet another reason for Universal, Single Payer Health Care.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

10. Better close those Toyota plants in the south, then.

Building cars a squillion miles from the markets in which they're sold has only ever made sense for luxury vehicles.

[Hannah Bell]

18. I believe it's 9 million units/yr here (in a down yr) v. 1 mill/yr there.

They build in china because of cheap labor.

[Lifetimedem]

7. any money must stay here and they must not allow

other funds to be siphoned off and sent overseas.

what the hell is the matter with these business leaders and elected officials..of course sales will tank, of course homes will be lost, of course sales will be down. they have shipped middle class jobs overseas. people that used to be customers are now getting government 'assistance' or working at low paying jobs.

what the hell did they think was going to happen

[truedelphi]

9. Ah but were you and I and others of like minds "experts" on the economy

Did we have PhD's trailing along after our names?

It is just so strange that the early colonists figured out basic economics - keep tariffs in place, prohibit goods coming into the country so that the local populace would produce its own goods. Thus a steady supply of jobs that remained constantly on the increase.

The more educated we've gotten, the dumber we are, because somewhere along the line, common sense no longer prevails.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

13. Indeed. We should all go back to being fur traders or slave owners.

Those early kids did have it all figured out, didn't they.

[Lifetimedem]

31. todays slaves

live in china and you buy and enjoy THEIR GOODS..

Todays slave come here from india and work for substandard wages under H1V visas where they are OWNED by their company and you buy and use their crap

Todays slaves cross our border illegally from mexico and live underground and work for less than minimum wage and you eat and buy their crap


SO STOP BEING HOLIER THAN THOU

[Hannah Bell]

40. heh. not only that. today's two-parent slave f amilies work 80 hrs a week to keep their

house & raise their kids, while being constantly insecure & at risk of losing their jobs, their pitiful savings & home equity at the whim of the chess players of the universe.

in other words, every generation of workers, on average, is allowed just enough wealth to replace themselves, but never to get "ahead," or "secure," while the ptb consolidate more & more power.

they just don't know they're slaves.

[truedelphi]

37. In the community, they helped each other make their homes

Barn raisings, quilt parties, pottery making, carpentry, horse shoeing, black smithing, wheel wrights, etc.

Farming, butter churning, wood cutting, hunting, tanning, shoe making, baking, whiskey brewing, hemp harvesting.

Coach driving, hotels and hostels owning, road making, horse trading, saddle repairing.

It was not just a society of slave and fur traders.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

38. They had a life expectancy of 30 and burned witches before they died, cold and alone, of rabies.

No thanks.

[Hannah Bell]

42. right. that's why all the founding fathers died at 30. ha-ha.

[Hannah Bell]

41. the thing about tribal societies: once they'd built their home, they really

owned it.

not true today. you never own it. spend 30 years paying it off, lose it for taxes, medical costs, imminent domain, changing neighborhood/property values.

[bvar22]

17. Not so dumb.

They all knew exactly what would happen.
Ross Perot told us in 1991.
The top 1% have made millions shipping American jobs out of the country and driving down wages here.
They had plenty on money to buy enough Democrats in the Clinton administration to make their dream come true.

The Republicans could not have done it alone.

Thank You, DLC.

Be advised.
There will be another attempt to Privatize Social Security (Private Accounts) in the near future. This time, it will originate with the conservative Democrats...the same Democrats who gave the Wall St CEOs $700 Billion Dollars with no string attached.

Forewarned is Forearmed.


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

11. What the hell did anybody think was going to happen?

There are people willing to work for less money than us to provide goods of equal quality, or work for the same to provide goods of better quality, or work for more to provide goods of even better quality. Why do you think you can still buy a Toyota or a BMW in any shitpot third world country, but not a Chevy? This is what happens when nobody wants to buy your crap.

[Lifetimedem]

32. better quality

the stuff we import from china and india is crap and dangerous do you know how many died from the heprin , how many kids injured from the toys, how many sick from tainted food


but if it makes you feel good to have americans out of work...go right ahead .

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

36. You didn't answer my question.

So again, my question is: Why are countries like Germany and Japan able to export automobiles that other countries want to buy, but we aren't? Anti-Americanism? Something in the water? Or is it just that GM has a lousy market presence and a lousy reputation?

[Hannah Bell]

44. to add to your question: why is gm magically able to make cars people want to buy

overseas (e.g. #1 in china, 9.5 of european market) but not in the US, its home territory?

30 years of remarkable ineptitude, despite tax breaks, bailouts & captive unions, demands explanation.

Mine: because they planned it that way.

Global labor arbitrage.

Same reason britain no longer has an auto industry.

Purposeful (not market-driven) failure.

[Hannah Bell]

12. New GM St. Peterburg plant:

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/600/42/372214.htm

[leftchick]

50. pretty slick operation

how the fuck do they get away with this time and again? These MFers had better appear before congress to answer for these treasonous acts before they get one penny more. As if. :(

Medvedev Warms Up At GM Plant Opening
10 November 2008By Maria Antonova / Staff Writer

ST. PETERSBURG — After including a chilly, anti-American message in his state-of-the-nation address Wednesday, President Dmitry Medvedev was on hand to offer a warm welcome Friday as U.S. automaker General Motors officially opened a new plant in St. Petersburg.

Medvedev used the event, which was also attended by U.S. Ambassador John Beyrle, to talk about doing business with the United States.

"This is a great example of investment cooperation between Russia and the United States," Medvedev said at the ceremony, wishing the Detroit-based company good luck.

Beyrle emphasized the same theme of Russia-U.S. cooperation.

"We are both unwell because of the financial crisis, but we can improve the situation by working together," Beyrle said.

Called the "godfather" of the plant by St. Petersburg Governor Valentina Matviyenko during the event for his early involvement in the project, Medvedev talked about taking part in the groundbreaking ceremony for the plant as first deputy prime minister in 2006.

"I was given a shovel as a souvenir, which I still keep at my dacha with other gardening tools," Medvedev, a St. Petersburg native, said before inspecting the interior of a Chevy Captiva midsize SUV presumably right off the assembly line.

The ribbon-cutting ceremony came on the same day that GM announced year-to-date operating losses of $4.2 billion in posting its third quarter results. The company is currently lobbying the U.S. government for a bailout to help it avoid bankruptcy.



:grr: can you believe this shit??

[leftstreet]

14. K&R

[Hannah Bell]

15. GM expansion in India continues:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Business/India_Business/No_India_brake_GM_plans_rival_to_M800/articleshow/3692927.cms

[Hannah Bell]

20. Texas teenager builds electric car for $18K. But our car corps can't.

"We'll go bankupt unless you give us money."

You believe this bullshit?

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=7833849&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.3.1

[leftstreet]

21. Interesting article!

HOUSTON -- While automakers have been unable or unwilling to mass-produce an all-electric car over the past decade or two, a San Antonio, Texas, teenager has built one (video: MyFoxHouston) over the summer.

Luke Laborde, 17, estimates he put 150 hours into the project, which converted a gas-powered Bradley kit car to run on an electric motor driven by eight lead-acid batteries.

The Bradley can travel up to 55 miles per hour, Laborde estimates, with a range of about 40 miles per charge. Each charge uses less than 75 cents' worth of electricity.

The total cost of the car: about $18,000, according to Laborde.


The teen says he had no experience in automotive repair when his father suggested the project to him.

"Luke kind of needed a summer job," says Ralph Laborde, "and one day just jokingly I said 'how bout we build an electric car?'"

The elder Laborde runs a company that builds and repairs hydraulic systems. He contributed his expertise, but says Luke did all the heavy lifting on the project.

Father and son bought the Bradley on eBay and purchased a kit with schematics to complete the conversion.

"Half the fun," Ralph Laborde says, "was putting it together and hooking everything up and turning the key on for the first time and hearing it clack."

The car's new electric engine sounds like a jet as it begins to gather speed. Luke changes gears manually, but without engaging the clutch.

The teen uses the car for his short commute to high school, where he is a senior.

Meantime, both Toyota and GM have revealed plans to mass-produce plug-in hybrid vehicles in 2010.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

22. I've known people who've converted old VW Rabbits and an MG to electric.

Lovely vehicles. Tons of fun. Hardly a replacement for a "real" car, though (the main hint being that the people who built these things, green to a fault, didn't give up their internal combustion vehicles.)

Oh, and the MG caught fire. Because it was British. :evilgrin:

[Hannah Bell]

23. a teenager did it in his garage. which suggests a giant corp could do it much better.

if they wanted to.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

24. Anybody can do them.

The kits are freely available and they're not that hard, really. There's just not much of a market for cars that can only go 40 miles on a charge.

[Hannah Bell]

27. the kit was for a gas-powered car.

why is it our giant corps *can't* do it, & do it much better, if *anybody* can?

"We need your money!!!! We don't know how to run a business!!!!"

For the last 30 years, same story.

Let them die, take them over & give them to someone who wants to make cars.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

30. The resulting car is not gas powered or a hybrid.

The resulting car is electric-only powered and has a range of 40 miles. Let us say that via the marvels of mass production and cost reduction such a car could be mass produced for $12,000 (which it can't at the current time, but this is beside the point.) There still isn't a huge market for a car costing $12,000 that can only do 40 miles on a charge. There is a much larger market for hybrid vehicles (including the plug-ins referenced in the article) because they do not have this range limitation. The range limitation is a huge amount of the reason people don't warm to fully electric cars.

[Hannah Bell]

39. A high school kid. For 12K. In A gArAge.

BTW, 40 miles takes care of more than 60% of drives.

[truedelphi]

46. The more I read your posts, the more I think I have a twin

Who was separated from me at birth.

:hi:

[JVS]

45. LOL! @ the MG

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

48. Oh, it was great fun until the battery system exploded.

And it wasn't even a British system! That car was just cursed.

[katty]

26. let GM's chinese partners, etal - bail them out

[Hannah Bell]

29. good idea. they're making profit there, & building fuel-efficient cars.

same in europe.

it's only here in the US they've been clueless the last 30 years. Supposedly.

[katty]

34. yes, geographical cluelessness?! how convenient

[leftofthedial]

28. Live by the "free market," die by the "free market," I say

[lib2DaBone]

35. I agree. Why Don't they go to Mexico and consult with their top notch "engineers"

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Horse with no Name]

47. No tax breaks for ANY company that builds outside the US

and hit them with heavy import taxes when they try to bring it back in the US to sell their shit.
We should NOT subsidize the demise of our manufacturing base.
No.Tax.Cuts.
No.Government.Money.
No.Subsidies.

Made in the USA and by Fucking God...MEAN IT!

[SoCalDem]

49. Like paying off your husband's gambling debts, so he has extra money

to lavish on his girlfriend:grr: