So does the murderous bush regime just waltz away, hands dripping blood behind them?

[Skip Intro]

Is that it?

The liars that perpetrated an unprovoked attack on another nation, resulting in the deaths and maiming of tens of thousands, many our own neighbors?

Do they just give a big middle finger to justice, walk away and write their various books - with no remorse?

Will there be no justice for this and other crimes - using tragic events (mihop, lihop, or otherwise) to manipulate a fearful public while blood ran like a river half a world away?

The idea of impeachment seems to have come to an end. I can't imagine the idea of a war crimes trial even lives at this point.

So is that it? They came, they saw, they robbed and killed and shot holes into the constitution, they walked away?

That's it?

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

1. Probably.

Of course, I'm pretty cynical.

[newscott]

2. No probably about it. Of course they do.

Remember it's still "their" America at the end of the day.

[riqster]

3. Yep.

Sucks, man.

[Stinky The Clown]

4. In a word, yes.

No qualifiers.

Yes.

[NNN0LHI]

5. We could storm the barricades and demand justice

But their protectors would shoot us down like dogs.

So we are in a pickle.

Don

[Generator]

6. Well that was the price of getting Obama in there

Which was Ms. Pelosi's/every elected Dems save your Kuchinich and few brave souls only goal for the last two years. Let's see if he lives up to it. Let's see if (knowing what you and I know) we can live with it. Let's see if it works-hmmm where did Cheney come from-oh yeah a corrupt past admin that was never punished. Let's see if America has any memory. Oh wait they don't. Happy happy joy joy. Obama is the magic man.

[aquart]

7. No chance we could make it their own blood?

How about a new tradition: exit waterboarding? All in good fun.

[hvn_nbr_2]

8. No.

Their hands dripping with blood won't be behind them. They'll be licking that blood off their hands to enjoy every last drop. Can you seriously imagine Darth Vampire letting good fresh blood go to waste?

[tom_paine]

9. Probably yes.

It's a tragedy and a miscarriage of justice on the order of Pinochet being allowed to die peacfully instead of dancing at the end of a rope (or lethal injection needle).

But it's a 99% certainty...

[Individualist]

10. That's it

and you can thank the "centrists" for allowing them to enjoy the fruits of their criminal activities.

[MadMaddie]

11. The Hague awaits them!

If we are lucky an Obama administration will pursue prosecution.

This is where America went wrong with the Nixon Administration...if Cheney, Rummy and others would have been prosecuted we wouldn't have seen the crisis over the last 8 years.

[w8liftinglady]

12. not if we don't allow it.You must keep their crimes at the forefront

I remind my locals of each and every one of them every chance I get.

[leftofthedial]

13. yes, but we won't see the blood

because they'll have so much of our money stuck to it.

[Eryemil]

14. Yes, that's how it works. If you expected otherwise you are naive

[JackRiddler]

19. Complacent acceptance of murder is not sophisticated.

It's convenient for some, though.

[lutefisk]

15. ja, oui, and yes!

Apparently he can even invoke executive privilege after leaving office. He is going to smirk, giggle, and give us the finger every chance he gets. He'll be remembered as one of the biggest assholes to walk the face of the earth.

[rurallib]

16. Well I have asked reps and senators and still have no answer.

So I am guessing - yep EXCEPT
for Vincent Bugliosi who could actually make his life a living hell. I hope.

[anigbrowl]

17. That's how it works in most democracies. It's the price for a smooth transfer of power.

Revenge almost always turns out to be a bad waste of political capital; I'm afraid you are probably not going to get what you want.

[JackRiddler]

18. What bullshit. Justice is the foundation of a democracy.

When justice is denied, as it was already in 1993, you get the kind of "transition of power" you had in 2000. Not very smooth. The criminals will return.

Crime must not pay, or it will be done again. This is about justice, not revenge, and to call it the latter trivializes genocide and tyranny. We're talking about a million dead in Iraq, two to four million refugees, generations yet to be poisoned by the ecological destruction.

[lutefisk]

21. "This is about justice, not revenge" . . . I agree. Without justice it's anarchy. . . n/t

[anigbrowl]

23. I'm not promoting it; I'm just saying that's how it usually goes.

Since I'm feeling cynical, let me put it this way; we live in a republic, and the foundation of a republic is law, of which justice is an occasional by-product.

It's not pretty but that's very often how it is. If you examine revolutionary cases (eg in France) the cleansing quite often turns into a bloodbath, which ends up with the architects of the revolution (such as Marat) ending up on the guillotine themselves. Other cases like Nuremberg after World War 2 are usually the imposition of external powers rather than internal self-examination. Internal political strife tends to get defused or lead to civil conflict, which was why South Africa went in for truth commissions rather than trials. Chile might be the best example of justice's wheels turning slowly but grinding exceedingly fine, and that took a long time.

Although I do expect some prosecutions and convictions to emerge in the coming years, I think they'll mostly be of people you haven't heard of, and few or none of the big players that we've been so disgusted with.

[JackRiddler]

34. Actually...

Are we in a republic any more? That presupposes a transparency that ceased to be, long ago. Secret power is the opposite of a republic, is it not?

I think a Truth Commission process would do a world of good. It would prompt something like a peaceful revolution. (Let's start by having your future low-level convicts get the opportunity to speak openly with an offer of amnesty about orders they received from on high.)

And there's really no question of anything like a French Revolution in the present-day US, so I'm not too worried about it as a bad precedent.

[lib_wit_it]

38. "And there's really no question of anything like a French Revolution in the present-day US" Is that

because we are more civilized, evolved, or just complacent consumers?

I ask sincerely.

[JackRiddler]

40. In our dominant ideology, "civilized" and "complacent consumer" are synonyms...

Not to me.

I think we are more civilized in the sense that, despite the dumbing down of America and the mass-broadcast media monopoly, we have much more freely-available and widespread knowledge of both the system and of others in the system. Personal demagogy and thirst for heads may be harder to maintain in the modern context.

But we are also a nation of complacent consumers, no doubt. Otherwise the last couple of months -- the plunder plan at the latest -- would have prompted a popular street uprising and a toppling of the government (if not a revolution per se).

In this country I think a parliamentary system, in which governments that fail actually get shuffled out, would be a vast improvement.

[Bandit]

28. What justice was denied in 1993?

Apparently I missed that one..

[JackRiddler]

35. Read up on 1981-1992 then...

Iran-Contra and "The Enterprise."

CIA engineering of genocide in Central America.

The S&L bust-out by elements of the Bush mob, CIA and mafia.

CIA protection of the Contra coke business.

BCCI.

For starters.

Instead, Clinton put the brakes on investigation and watched as the right wing went after him for minor-league real estate deals and possible mistresses - eight years of that shit followed.

[lib_wit_it]

39. And Disaster Capitalism as well, no? nt

[Donald Ian Rankin]

31. Actually, I'm afraid I don't agree.

For most DUers, I think it's about revenge, not justice.

That's not for a moment to say it *isn't* just, but I suspect most here would support prosecuting Bush whether it were or not, because they want revenge.

[puebloknot]

24. Justice, not revenge. Simple concept, but it requires a shoulder to the wheel ...

... on the part of decent people.

[lib_wit_it]

36. Revenge? What's needed is justice. nt

[Incitatus]

20. That seems to be the case.

[orleans]

22. rachel was talking to turley tonight about the fact that this psycho

could claim executive privilege even after he is out of office!

a little known tidbit passed by (i think) truman

turley said if the sitting president (obama) & the former resident (fuckhead) were at odds on something and the fuckhead claimed executive privilege it would go to supreme court--could take years to decide and that the supremes would be "insane" to rule in favor of a former resident.

but this executive privilege shit could really happen

[Arctic Dave]

25. In my dream a "crazy lone gunman"...

I'll let you finish the rest of the sentence.

[deutsey]

26. That's all, folks.

Nothing will happen to these thugs, nothing at all. Except they'll probably continue to prosper and grow even more disgustingly wealthy.

Maybe, just maybe they'll encounter minor disturbances in their perfect little worlds like their buddy Pinochet did when he was arrested. But strings will be pulled, deals will be made, and they'll continue on their merry, privileged way.

They live charmed lives, friends. Charmed lives.

[lame54]

27. If only they got caught smoking pot

[cobalt1999]

29. Of course they do.

Some people have pipe dreams of the Hague, but that's all it is, a pipe dream.

Just face reality and understand they will all die peacefully in the beds of their mansions at an old age.

[Thothmes]

30. Why no, we let Lyndon Johnson get away

with getting 36,000 American killed, 200,000 wounded and as many as 4 million Vietnamese killed or wounded.

[SammyWinstonJack]

32. Sure looks that way.

x(

[DU GrovelBot]

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[MrSlayer]

37. Yes they do.

They walk away into lives of untold riches. No one will lift a finger to stop them from doing so.