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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 01:09 PM
Original message
The Economy... in Cluster Fuck...
Allow me to demonstrate...

We are presently in a zero job creation period. Employers are laying off workers and no jobs are being created to replace them. If the auto industry fails, as it very well could (and perhaps rightfully should if only the CEOs would be affected) that would dump another 3.5 million or more unemployed people into the system on top of the 6.5+ million now collecting unemployment and countless million others who have now run out of it. This massive number of unemployed (likely over 15 million) equates to 5% of the ENTIRE population of the US, INCLUDING CHILDREN, INCLUDING those collecting Social Security. With approx. 151.4 million working Americans that equates to 1 in 10. Decreased buying power results of this, first from those who can't afford to spend for more than necessity anymore (the unemployed) and soon thereafter by those who still have jobs that, realizing the crisis at hand, stop spending as well. This has already begun to happen. Look at the auto industry. People have stopped buying cars. Look at the housing industry. People have all but stopped buying houses. Look at any major asset industry and you will see the same. People are waiting to buy or cannot afford to buy luxury items. When 10% of the population is out of work, something else begins to happen. The affect of penny pinching on the economy ripples again and more businesses have to close thus increasing the number of unemployed, thus increasing the number of penny pinchers, thus increasing the number of unemployed... It is cyclical and terminal.

FDR's programs under the New Deal revitalized the economy as did WWII by getting people back to work so that they could consume again. The 1950's boom was the result. We NEED to do this now. Bailouts are temporary fixes. It is cash to keep companies on their feet. They are a stop gap alone. We must create jobs. We have a crumbling infrastructure. Bridges, electricity grid, roads, the spread of broadband internet, any number of things will do, just make the jobs. Likewise, those who claim that the bailout, no matter how big, is wrong, are WRONG. It is a temporary measure that must be taken UNTIL people have money again and begin to spend again. I have no love of big business, but they do employ millions. For the economy to rebound, these people need to remain in jobs. Otherwise, the gov't will have to subsidize that much more industry to make that many more jobs to kick start the economy again. The infrastructure already exists in big business, maintaining that on life support is the best alternative now while creating new jobs. The true economic kick start is one that spurs spending by the general population. Jobs are needed. Bail outs are only a lifeline.

That's my two cents, flames discouraged,
Peace,
NTF
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. An anti-flamer, eh. Well take this:
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. So warm and alluring... reminds me of the central heat I used to have more of.
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Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. what? no flames! How will I pop the corn?
:popcorn:
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. Zero job growth would be an improvement. We have negative job growth.
Investing in infrastructure repair and rennovation would be great.

But, even if the US approached this on a war-like footing, it seems we are 8-12 months from anything like a coordinated plan for infrastructure improvement, and 18-24 months from fielding an "army" that can deal with all the logistical demands of a trillion dollars worth of public works projects. We may be more than 24 months from being able to produce the metals, concrete, etc that are needed.

In otherwords, a whole lot of people are gonna fall thru the cracks and perish before this thing is seriously being addressed.


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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. By zero I mean no job growth, not literal zero growth...
Sorry for the clarity.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. There is a reason for the cluster fuck FUBAR...LOV lack of vision
The higher ups always think of themselves for the answers..they go fron dude to dude, or, dudette, and finding only bandaids and temp solutions...sometimes mired in neafariousness....

They are guessing at it...educated as they may be...but really...guessing...

If those dudes cannot see the Vision....then its guessing for the answers...

Look at um.....They don't even know what they want...do they?
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I wasn't describing why it was fucked but what to do now that it is...
I have to look out for my own future and anyone else's that I can too.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I see your point and I love the latter...tis a sign of altruism...which is at once, the ANSWER
If ya think of the Whole, Ya think of yourself at the same time....Its a Duality of sorts....
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
9. Who really enjoyes wage slavery?
Edited on Mon Nov-24-08 02:09 PM by tama
Especially in a job that is participating in destruction of our planet? If wage slavery was fun, the bosses would be doing it.

There are better ways. Ways of freedom.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. It's a matter of realism...
There will be much more suffering if we destroy big business rather than curtail it as it should have been in the first place. Remember it isn't a bad thing to employ millions of people, it is the destructive (self destructive it seems) nature of unrestrained big business that is the issue at hand. The invisible hand does not exist. We have proven this time and time again. What a fool the neo-cons have been.
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Matter of realism:
The sooner we liberate ourselves from the self destructive growth paradigm, the less suffering there will be. It starts with taking interest, destroying the fertile soil, ecosystems - the carrying capacity of our Earth.

What fools we have been. What fools we still are.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Growth habits have little to do with the current economic crisis.
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 04:22 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Huh?
This current economic crisis is nothing but capitalism (well, civilization) meeting the limits of growth.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Actually its the culmination of Reganomics...
The invisible hand just bitch slapped this nation. The interests of the few were allowed to supersede the necessities of the many. We've dug our own grave. Now we have a choice, whether to lie down in it or fight back. I choose the latter.
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. That too
but to get to the root of the problem, it's important to understand that Reaganomics is the culmination of 10 000 years of system based on continuous growth aka looting the natural capital (fertile soil etc.) called "civilization".
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