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Mumbai looks like a real time test of terrorist tactics to be used again and again

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kiranon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 09:26 PM
Original message
Mumbai looks like a real time test of terrorist tactics to be used again and again
Long time ago, I studied guerrilla warfare and terrorist campaigns. Won't explain where or how. The incidents in Mumbai appear to be a real time testing of various tactics against a variety of facilities (hotels, train stations, hospitals, Jewish Community Center, port entry points and where ever else they went) to be used in future terror attacks. Wouldn't surprise me if some of the guests/employees at the hotels were observing or helping how things went and then they quietly walked away with the other hostages or by other means. The Chabad House may also have been thrown in as red meat for the true believers but the terrorist leaders were more interested in how the events proceeded as they will be duplicated with adjustments elsewhere. Attacking the Chabad House also points to international terrorism/terrorists and not just Pakistani terrorists vs. India. What do you think? Living near a port city does not make me feel safe at this point in time.
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liberal renegade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. you might be on too something.
:think:
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dubeskin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I agree
This whole thing definitely needs to be looked into a whole lot more than simply "a bomb" or whatnot. And I'm afraid something big could happen under the Lame Duck and Dick that will turn into an absolute quagmire before Obama's inaugurated.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. it looked more like an act of war with an inadequately sized or deniable army
at what point do you admit it's more than an act of terror it's an act of war?

the enemy is an army of trained young men who targeted to do the most damage to economic and international interests of india (for example, one of the hotels in question hosts the flight crews for delta and other airlines -- fortunately it's my understanding that the crew was safely evacuated)

to me it pretty much points of pakistan, i don't see how any else benefits, sure they don't mind throwing some red meat to the fundy fuckwits but still...who else benefits?
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
4. So? What great thing has been accomplished?
A whole lotta people are going to have nightmares. So? Are they going to stop living because of nightmares?

You know what? Say you're right. Say this is the tactic. And it escalates.In fact, it HAS to escalate. If they do less, they run the risk of being seen as weaker than before. You're only as good as your last hit, after all. America's all worried about terrorists, but the next strike has to take out MORE than 3,000 people and two skyscrapers. Or we'll just spit and go, "That's all you got? That's NOTHING." They're victims of their own success in this hemisphere.

So the next time in India they have to take out 20 sites. Or India will spit.

So you go and be impressed. I'm watching a landmark being destroyed and all I want to do is spit.
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Dis Pater Donating Member (153 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
5. You might find this article interesting
The Mumbai attacks represent a scenario that few Western police and security forces have dared envision. Fewer still have prepared for it.
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=1002827

The basic strategy: use a large number of attackers to overwhelm a target city's ability to respond, and then suddenly switch focus to high value targets and seize hostages.

The terrorists first diverted the attention of security forces through a range of incidents involving gunmen all over the city; then, as police attempted to react, they were themselves ambushed. The death of the commander of the Mumbai Counter-Terror Team and two of his principal lieutenants was no accident. To heighten the confusion, at least one group of gunmen ranged around the city in either a stolen or counterfeit police van.

The attack on a Mumbai hospital was also a disturbing detail. Terrorists love to create mass-casualty events -- but to attack a hospital? Jihadist chat rooms have often entertained the idea of a hospital attack, but we've never seen it used yet. This tactic will probably become a new standard practice for terrorists.

Authorities in the United States have long been anxious about al-Qaeda discussions focused on acquiring surplus emergency vehicles and using them for attacks on hospitals -- a scenario that came up in their Internet chats in 2003-04, and which prompted some attempts to buy old ambulances in several U. S. cities

Another nightmare situation involves a further refinement to the strategy behind the 2004 seizure of a school in Beslan, North Ossetia-Alania, and the 2002 attack on a Moscow theatre, both by Chechen terrorists. In these two notorious attacks, a large force of gunmen seized large groups of hostages (including many children) in public buildings.

The Chechens' intentions were not to negotiate for some advantage, but to prepare a murderous deathtrap for any rescue force, while rigging explosives to guarantee the deaths of all hostages. A

premature assault in Beslan (in which hundreds of anxious parents joined) saved many hostages, while the Bolshoi Theatre incident was addressed by the over-use of a disabling chemical agent -- which served to subdue the terrorists, but also killed many of the hostages.

Hotels, office towers and apartment buildings represent large concentrations of people with few access points. They have all been favourite targets for truck bombs for many years, but some counter-terror officers have often wondered how long it would be before some group of gunmen tried to control these buildings rather than destroy them. This is the future face of terrorism.

Ask any infantryman or SWAT-trooper about how much they would like to hunt through a high rise for terrorists who are holding hostages: not much. Buildings soak up manpower (and munitions); and every confrontation tends to be at point-blank ranges. Clearing and securing such sites cannot be quick, easy or risk-free; and the terrorists have the time to do what they want with their captives.

When "red-teaming" potential attacks inside Western Europe and North America, counter-terror officials have often refused to even contemplate attacks like this. Mumbai-type attacks are seen as too complicated to war-game in training exercises. Moreover, the idea of a hostage situation with a gang of gunmen in a high-rise has been seen as too "Hollywood" ( Die Hard, to be more specific) to be tackled seriously.

This week's Mumbai attacks should change this thinking. Our police and emergency responders have new standards that they will have to learn to meet -- or else the same kind of tragedy could unfold here.

-John C. Thompson is director of the Mackenzie Institute, a Canadian think-tank concerned with organized violence and political instability.
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kiranon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Thank you. Great site and information. n/t
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Wow.
Modern terrorism. That was a great article, thanks.
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reinvestigate911 Donating Member (548 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
6. Michael Meacher: The Pakistan connection
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
8. It's another CIA-MI5 job.
Don't be dense.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
9. I did find it strange that they couldn't just use the same
tactic on each site, at roughly the same time.

It was like war games.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 02:18 AM
Response to Original message
11. sometimes a cigar is just a cigar
Edited on Sat Nov-29-08 02:18 AM by TexasObserver
Kashmir has long been a hot spot of contention, where China, India, and Pakistan converge to compete.

There may be some involvement of other groups from other countries. Someone helped these guys get into the country and heavily armed. Little early to know. First we have to figure out who these attackers are, who they're likely connected to, and if any money trail turns up.

The Pakistani ISI is always a good bet, and would be my first choice simply based upon history.
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reinvestigate911 Donating Member (548 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 03:43 AM
Response to Original message
12. Security Blanket: Western Democracy and the Strategy of Tension
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