Let’s hope the Obama era will change thug rappers

[CatWoman]

My son has finally hit that age in which music means just about everything. So for his 13th birthday, we bought him an iPod. He’s downloaded a dozen or so songs, and his tastes expand all genres — notably rap and rock-n-roll.

Occasionally Miles will hand over the iPod so his Old Man can hear what he’s listening to.

Of the lot, rap presents the biggest parental headache. I try desperately to listen without prejudice, prejudgment and free of the baggage that weighs the art form down. Can the ubiquitous Lil’ Wayne be that much different from the artists of my teen years? Man, it’s like comparing night to day.

If there’s a story or message behind the lyrics, it’s buried somewhere amid magnificent beats and horrific rhymes about sexual prowess, fancy cars and pronouncements of being the best in the game. Humility as a trait has left the train station. It’s been replaced by the unfettered use of the n-word and the b-word.

-snip-

In a Nov. 18 article, the Rev. Al Sharpton shared his opinion on the subject with Greg Kot, the Chicago Tribune music critic.

“You can’t be using the ‘b’ word, the ‘n’ word, and the ‘h’ word when you have Barack Obama redefining overnight the image that black people won’t have. Here’s the greatest political victory in the history of black America, and the thug rappers can’t come near it. They will have to change or become irrelevant.”

Notice he said “thug rappers” and not all. It’s a worthy distinction. Without question, rap/hip-hop music isn’t the sole source of crass pop culture. Turn on the TV.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/shared-blogs/ajc/badie/entries/2008/11/29/lets_hope_the_o.html

[Taverner]

1. Not all Rap/Hip-Hop is Thug Rap

Granted, I know the least about this musical genre, because I just don't like the style. But that's me.

But I do know most of it is not "thug" rap - and even the stuff that is deemed so, has meaning between the lines.

[CatWoman]

2. The author did make that distinction

from the article:

Notice he said “thug rappers” and not all. It’s a worthy distinction. Without question, rap/hip-hop music isn’t the sole source of crass pop culture. Turn on the TV.

[TomInTib]

3. Good riddance

It cannot go away quickly enough for me.

Old Nancy, the daughter of slaves, taught me the first song I remember singing. It was Leadbelly's "Black Girl". I didn't want to learn it, at first, because i didn't want to say "Black Girl" in front of Old Nancy.

She said, "Oh, Son (she always called me Son), Old Nancy been 'round much worse".

My Grandmother loved to hear me play and sing Robert Johnson's "From 4 Until 8". I never sang the line "Womens are just like dressers, Mens are always runnin' through they drawers" if my Grandmother was present.

I never allowed any rap (of any sort) in our house when my sons were growing up.

[jaysunb]

4. Holy Cow !

I thought at first you were writing this, first person....I'm like..13 year old...Hubby. What the $#%^%$ ! :rofl:

Good post & happy holidays :hi:

[CatWoman]

5. lol

gotcha!!!

:hi:

[trollybob]

6. There should be a distinction made between artistic freedoms

and the everyday discourse of people in all walks of life. Even if the President-elect happened to adore "gangsta-rap" or "hip-hop', it doesn't mean he's going to go around saying "hello all you n****** and m*****f*****' bitches and 'ho's, I'm goin' to be pres-o-dent!". People should have the right to create any kind of artistic kitsch they choose , no matter how crass and vulgar.

[Luminous Animal]

7. I hope we elect a white guy next....

Maybe a white guy era will change the violence and misogyny of white culture. Double bonus if it an Italian white guy.

[ColbertWatcher]

8. Next guy will be Biden, what culture will he change? n/t

[Dis Pater]

9. coal miners in Scranton

[Luminous Animal]

14. The elevation of gangsters to hero status...

Goodfellas, The Godfather, The Sopranos...

[Liberal_in_LA]

12. yup, and maybe he'll end the porn industry which is mostly white produced

Just be sarcastic here... White males don't have to walk around with the baggage of the worst of what white males produce, why do black males have to carry the baggage of gangster rap?

[NashVegas]

18. Nice

:nuke:

[madrchsod]

10. right now the best urban hip hop /rap is coming from africa

95% of what is played on the airwaves in the usa is really bad. every once in a while one hears lyrics that have something to say...

[Hanse]

11. Gee golly whiz.

Lets hope it's all Lawrence Welk and Disney cartoons from here on out.

And no kissing for longer than three seconds it sends impressionable children the wrong message.

[clu]

13. yeah it changed it from

"a millie a millie"

to

"a billie a billie"

just playing i love gangster rap

[Laughing Mirror]

15. I agree with Rev Sharpton

As I so frequently do. Thug rap is fantasy rap, pure illusion, pose, and is already completely irrelevant. That thug era is over, at least it looks that way to me.

I notice that one of the two big hip-hop radio stations in Wash DC, now says for it's station ID: WPGC, 95.5, Free at Last!

Free at last. Free at last.

Name me the thug rapper who said THAT.

[CatWoman]

16. I've always maintained that each and EVERY rap video looks the same

a bunch of scantily clad women, thrusting and gyrating, fawing over some clown who calls them all sorts of bitches and whores.

[Laughing Mirror]

17. of course, it's all formula

Same as boys bands. Not much in the way of imagination or creativity in any of those genres.

[Holly_Hobby]

19. Kanye West had his pants pulled up at the AMA's the other night n/t

[CatWoman]

20. I wasn't aware that Kanye was considered a "thug rapper"

:shrug:

[Holly_Hobby]

23. He's not, I was referencing Obama's statement about saggy pants

I'm old, what do I know?

[tavalon]

34. What did Obama say about saggy pants

I remember when that first started becoming fashion almost 30 years ago (as an aside, aren't fads supposed to fade quicker than that?) and Marky Mark (before he decided to be Mark Wahlberg and become a great actor) was the first one I noticed. I was, not surprisingly, about 30 years younger so I was target market and I hated it. I thought it looked stupid and having seen a number of people go too far, I thought it's only value was in the humor of watching their pants land at their ankles. I am astounded and quite surprised that it is still around.

[Holly_Hobby]

35. MTV interview

In an interview with MTV, Barack Obama was asked about one of the hot button issues of this campaign, communities that pass laws banning saggy pants.

Obama was asked if people should be penalized for wearing saggy pants. He answered, “Here is my attitude: I think people passing a law against people wearing sagging pants is a waste of time. We should be focused on creating jobs, improving our schools, health care, dealing with the war in Iraq, and anybody, any public official, that is worrying about sagging pants probably needs to spend some time focusing on real problems out there.”

He also said that people should show some respect, “Having said that, brothers should pull up their pants. You are walking by your mother, your grandmother, your underwear is showing. What's wrong with that? Come on. There are some issues that we face, that you don't have to pass a law, but that doesn't mean folks can't have some sense and some respect for other people and, you know, some people might not want to see your underwear — I'm one of them.”

That was pretty sharp answer from Obama. It might sound silly to say this, but his answer on baggy pants highlights why he is winning this election. He took a trivial question and turned it back to the big issues, the economy, education, healthcare, and Iraq. His answer showed that not only does he have priorities, but he also has common sense. Sure he sounded a bit like a dad telling the kids to pull up their drawers, but guess what? He is a dad. One can picture him telling his kids to pull up their pants in the same manner someday.

...

http://www.politicususa.com/en/Obama-MTV-Saggy-Pants

[roguevalley]

49. I always thought it made you look ignorant, pants down and not

trying your shoes. I remember those old movies where the black folks were depicted as stupid and sloppy. How can you be proud of that? (EDIT: there is a whole world of black movies including westerns that are amazing. there were also two brothers who could sing and dance like angels. Harold ? and his brother, they could do ANYTHING. All of it is out there, including movies of break dancing back in the early thirties.) Its always funny how every generation wants to 'rebel' and not 'conform' but they do anyway. Hippies, rappers, the fifties, jitterbuggers, all of it really intensely conforming. Look at punk. Co-opted almost immediately. Some I will be glad to see die- gangster rap- and some I miss. Gangster rap can get you killed.

[vanderBeth]

21. I can't listen to most American Rap

As a genre, it was good and even meaningful for about all of 5 minutes before being dominated by the "thug" rappers. Too often anything good gets buried by the music biz. I do rather like French Rap, a lot of which comes from Africa or African immigrants. I'm not terribly fond of music in general, but may like it when it more rhythmically focused than melodically(that's a word, right?) centered.

[Luminous Animal]

22. Why has no white president been expected

to be a positive ballast against thug white culture? Would anyone seriously propose that white musicians organically curb their misogyny and violent imagery when a white guy is in the oval office?

[CatWoman]

24. I suppose because the office has been exclusively white

these past 200 or so years.

You suppose that has something to do with it?

Blacks have been given a chance to lead and govern, and I for one hope we do see a "trickle down" effect.

Add to that the negative and extremely harmful effect that genre of music emits.

The high level of black on black crime and murder rates, I suspect, are rooted in it. But that's just my opinion.

I knew someone would come along comparing apples to oranges.

P.S. - Thid article was written by a black man. A black man concerned about his son, and the future of all black sons.

[Luminous Animal]

25. I know that is was written by a black man...

Does that mean that I can't think that his point is shit.

Why should we see a trickle down effect? Why would or even should a black president, simply by his mere existence, have any more sway over black thug culture than a white president have over white thug culture?

What simplistic crap! "Oh look! A well-dressed successful black man! Why I've never seen one of those before! I'm going to stop singing about the bitches and get myself a real job."

[qwlauren35]

38. Because Hero Worship is a Real Phenomenon.

There are millions of little black boys (i.e. 1 - 7 years old) who will be spiritually and emotionally changed by having a black president in ways that will be different from everyone else in America. I personally resent having anyone say that this is "simplistic crap".

There are millions of young black teens and men who overcame major apathy and voted for Obama, BECAUSE he was black. And NO, white teens don't come out and vote just because someone is white... because it's NOT RARE.

You are seeing "race", instead of "minority". It's not because a BLACK person won. It's because a RACIAL MINORITY won. So those in that minority group feel a bit more represented, and hopeful that this "icon" will inspire our children to do better things.

This is why people discuss white privileges. Clearly, white people aren't influenced by things that they are used to. We're used to having white presidents. It's nothing special or new.

Look at how millions of white people are reacting to all of a sudden NOT having a WHITE president. As though it's the end of the world. Now, that is WHITE PRIVILEGE. The idea that having a white president is normal, and anything else is frightening. However, I could now substitute the word "majority", and perhaps the point would be clearer.

Look at how millions of the "racial majority" people are reacting to all of a sudden NOT having a "racial majority" president. As though it's the end of the world. Now, that is "racial majority" PRIVILEGE. The idea that having a "racial majority" president is normal, and anything else is frightening.

If it still seems like simplistic crap to you, we can just agree to disagree.

[CatWoman]

43. thank you for that wonderful, erudite response

I wish I could have formatted it with such panache :)

[H2O Man]

27. Good answer.

Thank you.

I have nominated the OP.

[CatWoman]

41. you make me read too much!!!

:)

:hi:

and I am eternally grateful :)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

39. Trickle down doesn't work does it?

[keroro gunsou]

37. and

alienate all those country music fans? :evilgrin:

[City of Mills]

26. I don't understand what Obama would have to do with it

When I was a teen I listened to heavy metal, one of my favorite bands was Slayer. They play a lot of power chords and the music is filled with satanic references and lyrics about murder, torture, and violence. Mean, nasty stuff. I'm sure it drove my parents nuts but they let me listen to it. Ronald Reagan did little to put a stop to my consumption of this violent material, although Al Gore's wife did her best to prevent it. I listened anyway, still do as a matter of fact - though mostly when I work out and need my adrenaline pumping. I also listen to Gordon Lightfoot and George Winston on the other end of the spectrum so at least my tastes have expanded a bit. Anyways, I think some rappers have cleaned up their language, but it will never change that a lot of the pioneering artists of the gangsta genre were often on the crude side, and their influence won't going anywhere for a long time.

[JustAnotherGen]

30. I listened to that too

And G n R, and Motley Crue - as well as N.W.A. and Ice-T - and I still listen to them all.

And - I'm neither a thug nor working the pole (think Girls, Girls, Girls). ;-)

Maybe because I offset both with Depeche Mode and 10K Maniacs? :-)

[Bucky]

55. You listened to satanic music & grew up OK. My grampa smoked & never go cancer

My dad's dad smoked like a chimney--12 pack a day man. He died in his 90s. But based on that, I can't really dispute people who say smoking is bad for you. Nor can we say, because the influence music had on you didn't lead you into self destructive life choices, that the social impact another kind of music isn't negative for some of its teen listeners.

The OP's point isn't that listening to a certain kind of music causes all of its fans to become thugz and rob banks and get teef grillz. There's a wider problem in teen culture concerning those who glorify violence, encourage drug & alcohol abuse, disrespect of women, and reject families, law, school and civility. The music--or maybe more specifically the fans' idol worship of the thug rappers--is a key component in the very real and very self defeating impact that thug culture has on teenagers' lives and on their success in school.

Some of the parents of these kids, like the OP, are simply pushing back against a culture and a peer pressure that they see working against their kids' best interests.

I don't know why you turned out okay despite the music you listened to. Maybe you had family that set other expectations of you. Maybe you saw plenty of examples of how people become successful by getting an education and learning to value learning new things. Maybe you had a cultural surrounding that kept moderate drug use "on the sly" and saw it as a recreation that you would eventually grow out of.

Maybe when you read a book for the sake of reading a book, no one accused you of acting white.

I don't know in what way your experience is different than the OP's family. But I expect a normal parent to be concerned about her kid's environment and to be a little fed up all the messages in our culture that push against a normal teenager's success.

I'm pretty sure that the teenager our OP is raising is well aware of mom's concerns and learns a lot more from her than he lets on during his rebellious years. As a teacher I know that the parents of my most well adjusted kids are the ones about to pull their hair out in frustration--that's part of the healthy mix of a kid growing up and developing his values, too.

[judasdisney]

28. Did Clinton change heavy metal for the better?

Sheesh, this topic strikes me as inherently cryptoracialist

[JustAnotherGen]

29. Naah

Clinton didn't . . . but Tipper Gore tried to! *teasing you*

:rofl:

[Forkboy]

32. No, but Republicans always make punk better.

Angry music sucks under Democrats. Hell, Ministry called it a day because they admit they suck when Dems are running things. :)

[JVS]

36. Hair bands died and grunge took over in Clinton's first 4 years.

[readmoreoften]

61. Indeed they did. They seemed to have killed it.

Hair metal, at least. Norwegian black metal seemed to weather the Clinton storm.

[Forkboy]

31. "Are you a hip-hop apologist?"

What I want to know is, when did the worst in us become normal and accepted? When did it become par for the corporate course that "black man as thug" and "black woman as slut" be business as usual? Major companies now line up to profit from the buffoonery of a few...at the expense of us all. MTV, Viacom, Clear Channel, Boost Mobile, Amp mobile, Chevy, all major record labels and most video games come readily to mind, but there are many others.


I'm not a hater...although I do hate the imbalance in the industry right now and the negativity it fosters. I'm not calling for censorship. You can't lump me in with the Jesse Lee Petersons and the Armstrong Williamses of the world...bourgeois self-hating black men who demean other black people and profit at our expense. And nobody can say that I'm unqualified to speak on it, since I've contributed to the sale of just under 4 million albums independently, still run my own successful counter-establishment label (www.guerrillafunk.com) and have been embracing messages of self-esteem and self-sufficiency for years.


Like I said, I'm not calling for censorship, but I am calling for balance. I'm calling for more representation of points of view other than gangsta rap and escapism. More revolutionary voices. More voices of women. Where is the diversity? Music can only be kept artificially young and artificially dumb for so long before an inevitable backlash ensues, and that's what we're seeing take place now. Overall album sales for the January 1-April 2 period are down 16.6% -- with a 20.5% decline in CD album sales since last year -- and an even greater decline in hip-hop. Since LAST YEAR (and it was already raggedy last year, believe me). We're seeing the industry implode before our eyes. I heard somebody say recently that in this current era of style over substance Stevie Wonder, Parliament/Funkadelic, Earth, Wind & Fire, Curtis Mayfield and others would never have been signed. Let that sink in for a second. They would never have been signed. Some of the very architects of black music as we know it would have been sidelined too, just as countless others are now, because they wouldn't have fit into white corporate America's cookie-cutter feel-good box of acceptable black behavior and appearance. Same goes for me, Public Enemy (they'll take the Flav, but not the Chuck), Kam, X-Clan, BDP, Wise Intelligent, dead prez, Zion-I, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, The Roots, Blackalicious, Immortal Technique, The Coup, T-K.A.S.H., Michael Franti and a host of others.


So how many half-naked women sipping Cris draped in blood diamonds poolside will it take before we collectively agree that shit is tired now? How many backward-ass coons with tats and plated grills and pimp cups etc. in the strip club before we all agree that enough is enough and that we need balance? When did the bar get set so low? When will we demand more? And as for Simmons' argument that "rappers are reporting what they see" etc, how are cocaine-kingpin rhymes or poolside pimp-nigga fantasies anyone's reality? Miss me with that bullshit argument. Yes, there should be room for all voices to be heard, but we have to be treated and presented equally. Now we have bitches and hos, players and pimps, gangstas and dealers -- but no kings and queens, no revolutionaries, no dissent, no political commentary and no anger -- how is that? In an era where EVERYTHING is political and people are more disgusted with the way things are more than ever? It's no mistake. Yes I can say that we have failed, that we have allowed black culture to once again be co-opted, diluted and prostituted. Commercial rap culture is now to hip-hop is what disco was to funk. No wonder Nas is saying it's dead.

This is just a small part of an excellent piece by Paris (no, not Hilton...the one with talent and something to say).

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=44554122&blogID=255043113

And while you're there, check out the song Sheep To The Slaughter...it's friggin' awesome! :)
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=44554122&MyToken=0bdabf0d-2ba0-485f-821d-d74040ee1a4f

[CatWoman]

42. but not as awesome as you

:)

:loveya:

thanks for this article and link. It is the essence of my argument. :hi:

[Forkboy]

62. Awwwwwww

:loveya:

Glad you liked the article. Paris is one of the hip-hop artists I get into on a regular basis, even with my fondness for hateful noise that barely qualifies as music. I first heard him in '91 when he did Bush Killa and I've been hooked since.

[MrSlayer]

33. I like Gangsta rap.

Particularly old school N.W.A and Ice Cube. I've let my kids listen to this stuff since they were in the single digits and they are the most non-racially prejudiced, well adjusted kids of all their peers. Just hearing the "n" word and the "b" word isn't going to change perceptions of reality. The rappers describe a fantasy world.

[we can do it]

40. But Will They Pull Up Their Pants?

Maybe? Really - 20 years of it and the backwards baseball caps is NOT NEW- the kids can wear their dad's clown pants for christsake....

[superduperfarleft]

44. Oh my god, this article is so dumb, it hurts.

Is this guy running for Bill Cosby or something?

But thanks for the heads-up. I'm sure I'll hear it quoted by indignant white people for the next week or so. :eyes:

edit: mediocre song compared to the rest of his work, but perfect for crap like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzeZhCt5PVA

[CatWoman]

45. what's so dumb about wanting better role models for your children?

your comments about his comments being dumb are so stupid it hurts.

[superduperfarleft]

47. Yeah, lets not worry about economic injustice

or the social conditions that created the motivations behind so-called "gangsta" rappers, let's just criticize the artists for mentioning it. Let's not criticize all the decidedly white faces who do the equivalent of pimping, drug dealing, and gangsterism on a daily basis and on a much larger scale, let's criticize the black kid who wears his pants a little low. :eyes:

I'm certainly glad a black man has given all of us white people permission to criticize a mostly African-American art form. That way we don't have to feel as racist while blaming black people for the problems that white people created.

[lib_wit_it]

48. And let's not forget the violence-glorifying Gangster and "Action" films that white males have been

producing for at least 80 years now. There's an interesting new book (though I don't think much of it's author, Ken Tucker), called Scarface Nation: The Ultimate Gangster Movie and How It Changed America. There are a number of reviews out there now. Here's an excerpt from a piece Time mag did on it:

2. "Scarface Lives Among Us:" Tucker chronicles more than a dozen major news stories and pop-culture events that have revived the Scarface brand since 2006. One story details how a 24-year-old Indiana man robbed a bank while wearing a Scarface T shirt. A 2007 feature comments on the popularity of Scarface posters among teenagers ("every self-respecting guy needs a Scarface poster in his room"). And then there's the Scarface ringtone: By mid-2007, more than 2 million people had downloaded the "Say hello to my little friend!" audio file for their cell phone.

3. On the film's impact on the music industry: "Snoop Dogg told me that Scarface laid out everything a gangsta needed to know: how to handle himself, how to live by a code of making money that may be gotten in illegal ways, but having a kind of morality. He would not kill that man's wife and kids with that bomb, you've got to remember that. He had limits ... You can watch it for fun, to get off on his big guns and 'Say hello to my little friend' ... But you can also use it the way businessmen use self-help books."

<http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1859898,00.html>

[varkam]

52. I don't think that people who glorify "Scarface" ever watched that movie to the end...

he gets killed in the end, you know?

[lib_wit_it]

53. Doesn't matter. He goes out in a blaze of gun glory. And yes, those who style themselves

after Tony know how it ends. They either figure we all have to go sometime and think that would be a cool way to go, or they think they can get away with the lifestyle without ending up like Tony. The invincibility delusion.

[varkam]

54. I know, I was trying to be funny. I have failed.

Welcome to DU, BTW. :toast:

[Bucky]

58. ha

feel better?

[varkam]

59. Nah. That's a pity laugh.

Thanks for trying, though :toast:

[lib_wit_it]

60. Oh. Sorry I missed the humor angle. Thanks for the welcome. : )

[Raineyb]

63. The presumption that there weren't any before Obama was elected.

They may not have been famous but we do have role models out there who are not rappers and ball players. The presumption that there aren't any makes the article dumb and idea that one lone person can "fix" what's wrong with the black community, since that seems to be the only way the black community is discussed outside of elections, is dumb. We are more than a collection of pathologies.

Regards

[EFerrari]

46. At the Miami Book Festival, Dave Barry said global warming is our revenge for rap.

:rofl:

[BlooInBloo]

50. Unfortunately, there's no reason why it would....

We all go through our "NWA" stage, as it were, and there's pretty much no stopping it.

Hey - we're boys. It's our job to be stupid, and it's your job to try to stop us from being stupid. :P

[varkam]

51. Check out the group "Doomtree" for some good rap.

And by good, I don't mean "Dolla Dolla Bill, ya'll!" type stuff

[UTUSN]

56. Where the LOVE have you been?!1 n/t

[Bucky]

57. I'm sure you know, of course, that the impact you have on Miles is bigger than Fifty's

As a high school teacher, I notice that the parents of the most successful and well rounded students are the ones torn between giving their kids enough room to make their own mistakes and barging into their bedrooms and forcing them to fill out the PSAT application forms. As long as you're pulling your hair out in frustration, you're probably doing okay.

Saying just once or twice in the course of year "I really hate the negative messages that music is sending" plants the seed. But if he's 13, you've got about two more years of rebellion ahead of you.