7 myths about Detroit automakers

[DainBramaged]

The debate over aid to the Detroit-based automakers is awash with half-truths and misrepresentations that are endlessly repeated by everyone from members of Congress to journalists. Here are seven myths about the companies and their vehicles, and the reality in each case.

Myth No. 1: Nobody buys their vehicles
Reality: General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC sold 8.5 million vehicles in the United States last year and millions more around the world. GM outsold Toyota by about 1.2 million vehicles in the United States last year and holds a U.S. lead over Toyota of nearly 700,000 so far this year. Globally, GM in 2007 remained the world's largest automaker, selling 9,369,524 vehicles worldwide -- about 3,000 more than Toyota.

Ford outsold Honda by about 850,000 and Nissan by more than 1.3 million vehicles in the United States last year.

Chrysler sold more vehicles here than Nissan and Hyundai combined in 2007 and so far this year.

Myth No. 2: They build unreliable junk
Reality: The creaky, leaky vehicles of the 1980s and '90s are long gone. Consumer Reports recently found that "Ford's reliability is now on par with good Japanese automakers."

The independent J.D. Power Initial Quality Study scored Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Ford, GMC, Mercury, Pontiac and Lincoln brands' overall quality as high as or higher than that of Acura, Audi, BMW, Honda, Nissan, Scion, Volkswagen and Volvo.

J.D. Power rated the Chevrolet Malibu the highest-quality midsize sedan. Both the Malibu and Ford Fusion scored better than the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry.

Myth No. 3: They build gas-guzzlers
Reality: All of the Detroit Three build midsize sedans that the Environmental Protection Agency rates at 29-33 miles per gallon on the highway.

The most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Malibu gets 33 m.p.g. on the highway, 2 m.p.g. better than the best Honda Accord. The most fuel-efficient Ford Focus has the same highway fuel economy ratings as the most efficient Toyota Corolla. The most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Cobalt has the same city fuel economy and better highway fuel economy than the most efficient non-hybrid Honda Civic.

A recent study by Edmunds.com found that the Chevrolet Aveo subcompact is the least expensive car to buy and operate.

Myth No. 4: They already got a $25-billion bailout
Reality: None of that money has been lent out and may not be for more than a year. In addition, it can, by law, be used only to invest in future vehicles and technology, so it has no effect on the shortage of operating cash the companies face because of the economic slowdown that's killing them now.

Myth No. 5: GM, Ford and Chrysler are idiots for investing in pickups and SUVs
Reality: The domestics' lineup has been truck-heavy, but Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes-Benz and BMW have spent billions of dollars on pickups and SUVs because trucks are a large and historically profitable part of the auto industry.

The most fuel-efficient full-size pickups from GM, Ford and Chrysler all have higher EPA fuel-economy ratings than Toyota and Nissan's full-size pickups.

Myth No. 6: They don't build hybrids
Reality: The Detroit Three got into the hybrid business late, but Ford and GM each now offers more hybrid models than Honda or Nissan, with several more due to hit the road in early 2009.

Myth No. 7: Their union workers are lazy and overpaid
Reality: Chrysler tied Toyota as the most productive automaker in North America this year, according to the Harbour Report on manufacturing, which measures the amount of work done per employee. Eight of the 10 most productive vehicle assembly plants in North America belong to Chrysler, Ford or GM.

The oft-cited $70-an-hour wage and benefit figure for UAW workers inaccurately adds benefits that millions of retirees get to the pay of current workers, but divides the total only by current employees. That's like assuming you get your parents' retirement and Social Security benefits in addition to your own income.

Hourly pay for assembly line workers tops out around $28; benefits add about $14. New hires at the Detroit Three get $14 an hour. There's no pension or health care when they retire, but benefits raise their total hourly compensation to $29 while they're working. UAW wages are now comparable with Toyota workers, according to a Free Press analysis.

http://www.freep.com/article/20081205/COL14/812050400/?imw=Y

[madrchsod]

1. there you go again...blinding people with the truth.

my daughter is happy because the bw plant she works at won`t be laying off after christmas shut down. there`s two new production lines scheduled for next year.


:thumbsup:

[DainBramaged]

2. Good morning

:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

[madrchsod]

5. for our family it is...and a lot of people who depend on the auto industry

maybe the .....will give up bashing the unions for causing the problem.

a young lady my daughter works with just bought a new 2008 chevy malibu. they make the electric air pumps that go into many autos built around the world.

[mopinko]

17. hey you. threadjack

i don't suppose you are planning to come up this weekend, are you?

[pipoman]

3. Anybody know what percentage of the Big 3 production is

actually done in the US? I've googled and can't seem to find an answer.

[DainBramaged]

4. Do you know what percentage of Toyota, Honda and Nissan production is in the US?

[pipoman]

8. No, doesn't really matter to me since US tax payers aren't

being asked to bail them out. I believe any bail out should be in the interest of US workers/jobs. The only news about US production jobs I have heard lately is that the Big 3 are planning to lay off yet more US workers. According to GM they employ around 284,000 globally "over half in the US". If they are asking for $18 billion and employ 150,000 in the US, that equals $120,000 per employee. I can't see how that is a good investment for the US tax payers.

[DainBramaged]

11. I can't see how discussing this with you is a good investment for my brain then

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[pipoman]

23. I see you can't justify it either.

[Greyhound]

21. We'd be better off, as a nation, if we gave the workers that money and watch how many

would pool their bucks to create new businesses.

Small business built America, small business employs America, and small business drives the real American economy.

[pipoman]

24. I don't disagree

[madrchsod]

6. check unhappycamper post

[Historic NY]

10. Check out Dept of Transportation stats...lots of good stuff....

you will be surprised at the numbers - from amt. of small cars sold - to age of vehicles on the roads, etc. The governments own data shows whats real over what people percieve to be fact.I found more than a few interesting numbers.

http://www.bts.gov/publications/national_transportation_statistics/2007/pdf/entire.pdf

[LiberalFighter]

15. Yep. It is the ones that make the most stink that get the most press.

[Captain Hilts]

20. Wow! What neat stats!

FDR: See? Government does good things!
ER: Indeed it does. I'll be this car throws off the statistics a bit...

[Captain Hilts]

7. The '87 and '89 Oldses I drove until 2 years ago were maintenance-free cars. nt

[DainBramaged]

12. I saw a guy driving one yesterday, 2 door, had American 200 wheels on it

it didn't look restored, it just looked like it was garaged and well taken care of. How many Toyota Corolla like that do you see!!

Oh, and restored Japanese cars, seen many at the car shows lately????:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[LiberalFighter]

16. I'm driving my 98 Cavalier. Not as old as yours.

[dipsydoodle]

9. Ref. myth 3.

That's because you haven't got the European Honda 2.2 CRD diesels in the USA nor come to that the 2.0 CRD Jeep Patriots with the VW engine one of which I drive myself.

The most efficient Ford Focus in Europe does over 60mpg to an Imperial gallon - c. 48mpg to one of your gallons.

[JVS]

13. "The creaky, leaky vehicles of the 1980s and '90s are long gone."

That's what they were saying in the 1990's about the problems of the 1970's and 1980's

[trotsky]

14. I have only ever owned American cars.

My current pair, a 2000 Chrysler Town & Country minivan and a 2002 Saturn L200, have both been nothing but reliable. The minivan has had is brakes done, and a new starter. That's it, for almost 9 years of family use. The L200 had a steering component replaced, about $500, but that has been its only repair over nearly 7 years. When people start ragging on American car reliability, I just don't get it. My neighbor has had his VW Jetta in the shop at least 4 times over the 3 years they've had it, and the folks across the street have had two major repairs on their Honda CRV in just the past year.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

18. If they're so goddamn fantastic

then why do they need twenty five billion dollars of our money? If they're such paragons of virtue, why are they so totally fucked up compared to other car manufacturers?

[TahitiNut]

19. Why keep asking what's been answered?

It has been pointed out repeatedly that Japanese car manufacturers have received multiple Japanese government "bail-outs' over the years and their U.S. operations have massive state and local tax incentives. It has been pointed out that foreign car makers don't have the "legacy costs" of medical care for their retirees due to the National Health Care systems that exist in every one of those countries. It's been pointed out that the current 'Big 3' solvency issues came to a head due to the FAILURE of the financial sector to free up credit as a result of TARP/etc.

It seems you aren't examining the factors objectively and are merely parroting marketing memes. The "Consumerist Religious Wars" in our culture (cars, computers, etc.) focus on BELIEFS and not FACTS. Our "car culture" has resulted in EVERYONE being a self-proclaimed 'expert.'

[DainBramaged]

25. Don't waste your time.

Some people believe that what's in front of them is not the truth. They WANT you to debate their talking points, that's all.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

27. Because the answer continues to be to blame everyone but the Big Three.

I wholeheartedly support bailing them out, even if all it's going to do is stave off disaster for another couple of years. It would be a far bigger catastrophe for one or all of them to go on at this particularly delicate point in time. However, I'm sick to death of certain bailout supporters who continue to claim that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the big three. Even GM seems to realize something is very wrong with their operations, which is why they're offering to sacrifice some of their most unprofitable divisions in exchange for government assistance. You don't need to be an expert to understand that propping up unprofitable divisions with diminishing market share is a sure path towards doom. So give them all the money they want. Hopefully they'll also be required to restructure or take it upon themselves to do so, but even if they don't then at least it gives them a chance to go out with a whimper instead of a bang.

[DainBramaged]

28. It's A LOAN, enough with the Reich-wing screed of 'bailing them out".

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

29. Yes - a loan.

A loan that nobody in their right mind would ever expect to be repaid.

[Better Believe It]

22. Thank you for the reality check!

[knitter4democracy]

26. Damn straight! It's nice to see the truth posted here finally!

I'll tell ya, my best cars I've ever owned were Fords. I fell for a Subaru, and that car's tranny went in just a couple of years with normal wear and tear. Too small for my 6'2" STBX-husband, hard and uncomfortable seats, and the same mileage as my bigger and better Ford Freestyle gets. I tell everyone about how great my car is, and when they're not sure, I make them get in. Nothing beats my car. :)

[DainBramaged]

30. It's been posted MULTIPLE times, some people don't get it.