Wearing 'almost homeless' sign, ex-executive seeks work

[Amerigo Vespucci]

Wearing 'almost homeless' sign, ex-executive seeks work

http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/12/05/unemployed.sign/index.html



Paul Nawracki, jobless since February, stands on New York corners with a sign announcing his job search.

From Richard Roth
CNN

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Paul Nawrocki says he's beyond the point where he cares about humiliation.

That's why he weekly takes a 90-minute train ride to New York, where he walks the streets wearing a sandwich board that advertises his plight: The former toy-industry executive needs a job.

"Almost homeless," reads the sign. "Looking for employment. Very experienced operations and administration manager."

Wearing a suit and tie under the sign, Nawrocki -- who was in the toy industry 36 years before being laid off in February -- stands on Manhattan corners for hours, hoping to pass resumes to interested passers-by.

"When you're out of work and you face having nothing -- I mean, having no income -- pride doesn't mean anything," Nawrocki said. "You need to find work. I have to take care of my family."



Steve Warren, who said he was with an executive search firm, asks Nawrocki for a resume.

People look but don't often stop. A woman in the jewelry business paused as Nawrocki stood with his sign outside Grand Central Station recently.

"I feel sorry for him. I wish I could help him," she said. "I'll pray for him. I'll give him a prayer card."

Nawrocki will take the prayers. His wife is partially disabled and on 15 medications, his daughter has student loans, and he's running out of money, he says.

He tried more traditional approaches at looking for work, but nothing came through. His daughter eventually suggested handing out résumés on the street.

"We started talking, and she actually came up with the suggestion of putting on the sign board. I thought, 'That's not a bad idea.' So, here I am," he said. Video Watch Nawrocki explain why he's using the sign »

Getting the right person's attention is tough. Competing with him for the eyes of passers-by are charity groups and homeless people seeking donations.

But there was one hopeful moment as CNN was interviewing him. A man identifying himself as the head of a New York executive recruiting firm took one of Nawrocki's résumés.

The man, Steve Warren, was asked whether employers are looking for people with Nawrocki's expertise.

"It's very difficult," Warren said. "The operations pieces are all exported to overseas, and the problem that we face is, guys like Mr. Nawrocki have a problem finding work here."

Warren was asked whether someone could find a job using Nawrocki's walking-the-streets tactic.

"Well, I found his résumé here, so I'm going to try to find him something," he said.

Nawrocki has plenty of competition. The U.S. government said 533,000 jobs in the country were lost in November, and more than 1.9 million jobs have been lost in 2008.

But he retains hope that he and his sign will attract the right opportunity.

"There has got to be a job out there, and hopefully there's one for me," he said.



For some passers-by, Nawrocki is a curiosity worthy of a photograph.

[Warpy]

1. He's passed his corporate expiration date

of 55. That means he'll have a miserable time finding anything but a low level, dead end job unless he is very lucky and an employer recognizes how useful somebody with his type of guts can be.

Corporations would rather hire green kids right out of college than retain employees over 55 who are in their peak earning years.

[Vincardog]

2. 55? I wish. It is more like 45.

[Greyhound]

3. 40 in IT (Fuck you Bill Clinton). I've considered doing this myself. n/t

[TahitiNut]

7. Hiring "managers" (often in their 30s) are afraid to hire someone old enough to be their parent.

The emotional insecurity of these "managers" is appalling ... and the best case for no 'fast-track' promotions of such people.

[2Design]

4. after 40 no one wants you n/t

[pitohui]

5. he'll never get a job, "his wife is disabled and on 15 medications"

who would want him as a new hire and put him on their health insurance plan?

there is no hope for this man until we have some kind of universal non-employer based health care and i doubt it will come soon enough for his family

sad, very sad

[mrreowwr_kittty]

6. It's was his daughter with the student loans suggestion? Time for her to get a job. nt

[SmileyRose]

8. I have no sympathy for him - someone needs to talk me down.

I do have sympathy for the fact the world has suddenly changed and upper level management with multiple degrees are having the hardest time finding work of anyone. I do have sympathy for the fact the folks to run the world told us college college and more college is the key to financial success and that turned out not to be so true afterall. I DO really seriously feel for someone who had it all and then found out they were dispensable just like the rest. And I have a lot of sympathy for the fact that his beloved wife being a drain on medical care dollars is not in his favor as far as getting hired.

What I don't understand is how someone who made a really great high wage for 30 years is about to become homeless after 10 months out of work. I'm thinking he either frittered it away or he's not being honest about his financial state. My viewpoint is this - my husband and I currently have a combined take home pay of just under $1600 a month. It's the most we've ever made. And yet we've managed over 30 years to pay off our house in full and though it us a good 15 years to do so, we did have 4 years worth of all our living expenses set aside in savings just after Desert Storm. Now, if I can manage 4 years with little to no income at my economic level, I do not understand how an executive on that kind of salary for 32 years can be going belly up after 10 months. Please understand, I am not passing judgement, I'm just saying I don't have a clue and wish someone would explain this to me.

I have a couple of different friends/acquaintances with advanced degrees who have been looking for "real" work quite a long time. They are working at what they consider throw away jobs at the moment and still make more money than I do, but consider the jobs they have now to be so far below their earning potential that it's like having no job at all. Because their lifestyle is so expensive they are blowing through whatever small savings they had very quickly. I do have a really hard time being caring when they poor mouth it. They STILL make more money than I do and are somehow unable to make ends meet. So I have a predisposition to not feel bad for people richer than me who are having a hard time. I'm thinking maybe they should have been more realistic in lifestyle choices all along instead of "investing" in McMansions.

Call me a bitch if you must but I hope someone on the DU can help me understand why I should feel bad for someone who made an awful lot of money for 32 years and now has little to no savings to fall back on. I "AM" willing to make that leap if I can just wrap my head around it.

[pitohui]

10. it appears that he lived in new york, rents are intolerable there

the cost of living is such that there is no real discretionary income and no way to save -- esp. if you are married to a disabled spouse on 15 (!) medications

we can go to walmart and pay $4 a month for at least some medications -- is there even a walmart in new york?

there's a reason people who live in ny never seem to have any money...

it is clear you have no idea of the cost of housing in new york, most people never expect to own property there unless they are multi millionairies, and even bianca jagger just got kicked out of her $4K per month rent controlled apartment -- being able to work hard and pay off a house is an impossible dream there for real people
-- can you fucking imagine, 4K for a RENT CONTROLLED place, what is it when the rent is NOT controlled, holy jumping jesus!

i feel pity for the guy, he has been in a trap all these years and finally it snapped shut on him

[SmileyRose]

20. I do understand the high cost of living in places like NYC - but

the article says he had to ride the train for 90 minutes to get to NYC to walk with the sandwich sign. Is NYC that big that one would ride 90 minutes on the train and still live someplace that's outrageous for a shoebox apartment? I honestly don't know.

I also know a disabled wife on 15 medications is likely eligible for SSDI and Medicare - I have no doubt she's been expensive and with his high wage may have seen no reason to apply for government help. Now that circumstances are changed she may have to go that route. Unfortunately - but thankfully it exists.

[pitohui]

29. so yr solution is to dump the wife

that's mighty big hearted of you

oh, and for your information, i thought it was rather well known that new york is a big city with five boroughs just the official part of nyc and large parts of the metro area spreading over multiple states into new jersey, connecticut, and so on -- so yah it's a big place!

sorry to sound testy but i'm sure your idea that he dump the wife so she can get medicaid is an idea that he would rather leave to a last resort, some people actually love their spouses and want to take care of them, even if they become sick

as for SSDI, it takes years to collect on that, years and a specialist lawyer in the area, and it still won't pay enough to keep you in "15" medications -- at least that's the case in louisiana, maybe they're more generous in ny, but i doubt generous enough to keep up with the cost of living of the northeast

[SmileyRose]

32. That's not what I said or meant.

I said MEDICARE - he does not "dump the wife" to get her on medicare. I never said anything about medicaid OR leaving his wife. ........... You took it all wrong.

[Doremus]

47. Do you know how long it takes to get those sort of benefits?

I'm not sure s/he would have qualified when he was employed. Of course, that ignores the fact that he didn't NEED them then.

Obviously you've never been whacked upside the head by life. You have 3 years' salary safely tucked in your mattress for every unlikely catastrophe that may befall you. Good for you. We're not all able to create rainy day funds like that.

The fact that this man was an executive tells you exactly zero about his particular financial needs/expenditures prior to his firing.

Assumptions are not only often wrong but mean-spirited as well.

[SmileyRose]

49. What are you talking about?

Read my post in this thread and I really hope you have a wonderful day.

[Doremus]

50. I'm talking about this: "I'm thinking he either frittered it away or he's not being honest"

Thanks, I read your post and I'd rather not read it again.

You questioned why his wife wasn't on Medicare. I answered that for you because obviously you know nothing about it. The process takes YEARS if it happens at all. The man has been laid off 10 months.

You questioned his sincerity about his desperate financial straits. I responded that you cannot possibly have ANY idea of his financial condition based solely on the fact that he was an executive. His occupation gives you no basis to make sweeping assumptions about his life, his probably substantial monthly expenditures caring for his wife, etc.

You make broad-brush, negative assumptions about someone you know nothing about. I find that offensive in its ignorance and repugnant in its mean spiritedness.

Sorry if that ruffles your feathers but one should expect blowback when one posts ignorance.

[Raineyb]

35. Yes it is possible to ride the train for 90 minutes to get to NYC

It depends on where you live. Live in Queens that's entirely possible. It takes me 2 hours to get into the city from where I live.

Regards

[Amerigo Vespucci]

11. Individuals have varying degrees of mental toughness and resourcefulness

The world has changed, absolutely. Some are more adept at changing with it than others. The unanswered questions in the article:

1). Is he looking for jobs that match the responsibilities and pay scale of his former positions? How flexible has he been in his search? He's wearing a sign that says "Looking for employment. Very experienced operations and administration manager." That means that 100% of the people who see that sign and don't have an immediate need to hire an operations and administration manager are gonna walk right by.

2). He says that he's "beyond the point where he cares about humiliation." But that rests upon how he defines the word humiliation. If he really believes that, there is work out there. It might be minimum wage work, but there are still jobs in which a clean, well-mannered, articulate individual with no discernible drug or alcohol problems will beat 95% of the people who show up looking for work.

3). "Getting the right person's attention is tough"...yes, but not impossible. I recently read a front-page story in my local business journal about an affluent business owner taking an incredibly bold step in the current economy. I called up, I got through his admin, the "gatekeeper." I got into his office. We had a 30-minute meeting. I immediately went home and sent a hand-written thank you note. We've had follow-up conversations. He is not a client TODAY, but there is an excellent chance that he will be in the months ahead. At minimum, I have built a relationship with a powerful business owner who was impressed with my company and has already given me a couple of rock-solid referrals to other successful local businesses.

If you have a computer, you can search through the Web and find articles about "movers and shakers" who are doing well. You can study their business. You can look for the missed opportunities, the areas in which your skill and expertise and passion could solve a problem or increase revenue or both. Then you pick up the phone and confidently say "I have something you need." I swear on my life, 9 out of 10 times you'll get in the door. What you do after that is up to you, but you will get in.

So no, SmileyRose, I'm not gonna call ya a b****, but doing all of the stuff I described above (and that is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to how I've managed my business in the last year) generally results in a 7-day-a-week, 24-hour-a-day feeling that the world is tearing me a new one.

I'm lucky. I know things are tough, and through the grace of God, when things get tougher, so do I. I'm not patting myself on the back. I'm just saying thinking about one of my favorite songs by Motorhead, in which Lemmy sings "the only time I'll be easy is when I'm killed by death."

:-)

There are people who fight, and there are others who fight a little and say "there are no jobs out there." It's all about mental toughness and the absolute refusal to take anything other than the desired end result for an answer.

I don't know Paul Nawrocki, and neither does Richard Roth, author of the CNN article. They went out, took a few photos, asked a few questions, and wrote an article. One thing's for certain...the chances of Nawrocki landing a position as an "operations and administration manager" at his previous salary are "dicey" at best, so does he have all of his eggs in one basket or is he breaking that job apart, looking at his skill sets? We don't know. We just know that he's an unemployed operations and administration manager standing on the street with a sandwich board sign.

:patriot:

[pitohui]

27. you honestly just don't get it, it AIN'T about mental fucking toughness, that's freep talk

it's abt he has a disabled wife who has to take 15 medications

there is no job anywhere in america with benefits that is going to hire him, he had to hope and pray that his previous job lasted him until his wife's medicare years

yes, he could be "mentally tough" and dump the wife and leave her behind to eke out what remains of her life on medicaid and at the end of the day, to save himself, maybe that's what the "mentally tough" person would do

until we have health care that is NOT employer linked, shit like this will happen
that people will become unemployable thru no fault of their own

i know lots of people who, if they ever lose the job they have, they will never be able to get another for precisely this reason

your "mental toughness" is the bullshit arrogance that comes from not ever having actually been in a situation THIS tough

sorry for the rant but, jesus, talk about asking for it

"mental toughness" my ass!

[Amerigo Vespucci]

30. Thanks for sharing.

Asking for it? No, I'm asking you to have a nice day. That's all I'm asking for.

[Missy Vixen]

18. Oh, boy, here we go again

First of all, I see by your profile you live in the Atlanta area. It's my understanding that housing and the cost of living is much more affordable in Atlanta than most of the rest of the country. I know that we should all live in an area that we can live cheaply according to those on DU, but most people must live where the industry they work in is concentrated, or in a larger city. For the man in the article, he evidently worked in NYC, and housing/cost of living in that area is astronomical.

Do you have any idea at all how expensive it is to care for a family member with significant health challenges? Try doing it without any insurance. Fifteen medications? God. I would hate to be in his shoes. (Of course, maybe she should just get a job, huh?) He's also got at least one child in college. Of course, this is of no consequence to you, right? She can quit.

You have no idea what this man's life was like before he lost his job. Perhaps he's trying to sell a house in a time nobody's house is selling. Only someone desperate and willing to do whatever he needed to do to find another job would ever stand on a street corner and hand out a resume. I hope that recruiter can find him something. Even if it's not at the same pay scale, that guy will work his fingers to the bone for any company that hires him. It's not just him. It's his wife. He wants his daughter to have an education. I'll bet whatever's left in his 401K was decimated, too, and he can't touch it.

We live in an area that the layoff bug has hit. Hard. Our friend got laid off last year. He got laid off again in October. (Over 40, you know.) He has a wife and three kids, two of which are under ten. He and his wife are championship savers. I have never met anyone who can save the way that they do. His wife told me the other day on the phone that after the last out-of-work episode, they're down to about six months in savings, then they sell the house. My husband is out of work. We have had more than one discussion about selling OUR house, too. The neighbor on the next street has had their house on the market for over a year now.

I am so, so tired of reading the smug, self-satisfied here who have the answers to every goddamn question, while the rest of us are far too stupid to have made your overwhelmingly correct life choices. Mostly, you don't have a lot of understanding about what's going on all over the country right now. How on earth can anyone save enough at any job to get from age 40 to age 65, for instance, when jobs with a living wage are vanishing daily, not to return?

Julie

[SmileyRose]

23. Here's where I'm coming from

My husband and I have worked at or close to minimum wage all our lives. He was in the National Guard to try and earn extra money and was sent to Desert Storm. He was wounded, medically discharged and could not work for nearly 6 years. It took about 5 years of fighting to get his back disability income from the military. He did, and does, fortunately, have VA medical benefits. Because he required quite a bit of care when he came home, it was hard for me to work full time. I worked for a temporary service and worked full time when I could, part time or not at all only when there was no other choice. A quite a bit of my work was "off the grid" babysitting, cleaning out rentals between tenants, etc. In the middle of all that I got uterine cancer - with no insurance. I had to beg and grovel but found some help at the "charity" Grady Hospital. I did have to call Atlanta Gas and Georgia power and the county tax office to grovel for help after about 3 years. We would only have lasted 4 years with little no income instead of 6 years if it weren't for that bit of help and I am very VERY grateful. So I personally have lived through long term unemployment coupled with serious and expensive healthcare demands. I certainly know life can be hard - and I certainly know at any income level saving for a rainy day can be mighty difficult.

I also have my brother who has 3 kids at home and has worked for PPG making car windshields for the last 25 years. They closed up his plant in early 2007. After 7 months of not being able to find full time work they had to put the house on the market. He was lucky in that he lived in a not so great area to begin with that never saw the housing bubble and people who could no longer afford the bigger houses were looking for one like his. He walked away with about $10,000 in his pocket and took his family to live in my other brother's basement. Thank god for family my brother's family is not homeless, maybe the guy in the article doesn't have anyone to help him. My brother is still pounding the pavement for about anything he can get. He's working a couple of part time jobs, one is "under the table" and since there's not a reliable place in that area and he's good at it, he's fixing people's small engines (lawnmowers etc) out in the garage.

Like I said, I'm not judging the man. I just seriously do not understand how someone with that kind of salary for 32 years is flirting with homelessness after 10 months. If the cost of living 90 minutes train ride from NYC is that bad and he's living in a place where he doesn't know anyone who can help him keep his disabled wife off the streets, then I can only hope and pray he can find a place to move where it's more affordable and there is a better support system for him.

[pitohui]

33. it ain't yesterday any more

you can't beg and grovel to get charity these days to get treatment for cancer, it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars

i've heard of spaghetti dinners etc. being thrown for KIDS w. cancer that didn't even make a profit for the kid -- health care is TOO expensive in 2008, has been for years, for people to "beg and grovel" or do under the table babysitting to pay for it

you are living in a dream world, you are talking about 1991 and pretending it's the 21st century, it ain't

if the same thing happened to you today as happened after Desert STorm, you could not recover by babysitting under the table, it kind of insults my intelligence that you even pretend to believe that it could

a guy of 55 with a disabled wife on 15 meds is not going to be invited to live in anybody's basement, c'mon, can we have some reality here? just a little bit?

[SmileyRose]

42. Reality is

if that man has absolutely NO ONE in his life willing to keep a disabled woman off the streets by opening up their home, then the guy seriously needs a better support system. I don't know one single person, in my whole sphere of life - well OK, maybe 2 or 3 tops - that would be hardassed enough to let a disabled woman they personally know end up sleeping on the streets.

We've had more than one friend or family member in trouble who moved into our other bedroom for an extended period. There's not a chance on this earth I would let someone I know sleep on the streets, healthy or sick. Good heavens, my Uncle living here with us has mental impairment that causes him to be fairly abusive and EXTREMELY hard to live with. But short of his becoming a physical safety problem to himself or us or causing us serious financial harm I would never ask him to leave.

What should insult your intelligence is your idea that there is a whole city full of people who would not lift one thin finger to help a disabled woman and her husband have place to live and the time to access their rapidly changing lives to find a way to dig out. THAT is unbelievable to me.

[AllentownJake]

38. Actually very easily I don't know the facts however I can envision this

He probably has a mortgage on his house like everyone else it doesn't even have to be an extravagant house. He's 55 so he probably has 10 years left on it. He can't sell his house and move because well...houses aren't selling right now.

He probably moved to that area for that job from somewhere else. At 55 his parents are quite possibly deceased. His siblings could be living accross country with no space for variety of reasons and it maybe a last resort.

His wife is married to him so to qualify for Medicare or medicaid under disability she has to wait till his income level goes down to apply. That won't happen till 2009 since they will look at his 2007 income when she applies. He's probably eaten through a shitload of his savings with lower income from unemployment paying for her medical cost.

He has never been in this situation before nor has anyone he probably regularly associated with. Therefore advice on survival isn't good.

For all you know this guy might have done the right things in life. His parents could have been working class folks and he could have gotten his education by working or the military. He could have worked his way up from the bottom and now at 55 he's just shit out of luck. He can't access his pension or 401(k) (without massive penalties which he may have already done) till 59 1/2

BTW...if we want to build a lasting democratic majority for the next 30-50 years...people like this need to be our poster boys.

[cpamomfromtexas]

19. You have a great skill, everyone needs to do what you've done!

[nini]

45. it doesn't take much to wipe one out

I've had two major events in my life that broke my bank - one leading to a bankruptcy.

So the fact I'm 51 years old now with a good job doesn't wipe out the days I lost everything I had.


You never know what is in the guy's past and what put him where he's at today.

[NightWatcher]

9. "operations and administration manager" in other words he pushes paper and doesnt produce zip

the MBA has destroyed the upper middle class. Thousands of people who dont know how to do or produce anything are merely middlemen who just produce reports and interoffice mail. I'm related to 3 MBA's and neither of them do shit. They are not really needed and 2 of them feel their jobs are on the chopping block.

Appologies to any and all MBA's in the House. My degree is in behavioral sciences and nearly as useless.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

14. This is gonna sound off-topic, but it's not...please bear with me...

I have a client who is a dentist. I have my own strategic marketing firm, and Web Site design plays a big part in it. My client wanted to add a blog to the site. I'm in the middle of making that happen. I said:

"I imagine that cosmetic services are down right now, but if people chip a tooth or have a toothache they're still coming in, right?"

She said "NO."

I said "You're kidding, right?"

She said "NO ONE is coming in."

I have an appointment with her this coming Tuesday, because...as she put it..."there are no patients on that day so we won't be interrupted."

OK, here's my point, which is basically your point too (as I understand it):

Right now, I cannot afford to "not produce zip."

I need to identify the critical needs of my clients, as well as my potential clients, and deliver solutions that meet those needs, that they can afford, which will ultimately enable me to meet MY financial obligations. It isn't easy and quite often I can never charge a fee that adequately covers the "legwork" I do for my clients. But they DO know that I bust my ass for them, which is why they remain my clients.

And we don't know the degree to which Paul Nawrocki "gets" that.

If he really is an out-of-work 50-something paper pusher, yes...Elvis has left the building regarding job opportunities. Without judging him...if I were in New York and could walk up to him right now on the street...I'd hand him a piece of paper with the name and contact info of a low-or-no cost career counseling center that could help him deconstruct his years of experience and re-assemble them into a credible job search strategic plan.

My church has a free program which specializes in finding jobs for what society would consider the "unemployable"...people who have just been released from jail, people who have had substance abuse problems, you name it. They average one job per day, every day...last year they put 380 "unemployable" people back into the work force and they are on track to equal or surpass that number this year.

How do they do it? They work the phones. They have a list of EVERY online job resource, NOT just Monster.com and CareerBuilder.com, and they update this list regularly. They turn over every rock they can find and then they look for more rocks. And in doing so, they find steady, paying work for the "unemployable."

:patriot:

[SmileyRose]

24. I thank you

your posts in this thread have been a help to someone I care very much about - just on the cheerleading aspect of "no one is unemployable". I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

28. My pleasure, thank you too, and...

...my experience is that the winner is ALWAYS the person who is willing to finish the race.

A good friend and mentor of mine likes running marathon races. More often than not, he finishes the race after the "winners" have gone home. One of his friends asked him how he felt about that and he said "I beat all of the people who stayed home."

That little anecdote changed my life. I've told my friend that to the point of his long being past the point of getting sick of hearing me talk about it, but that's OK.

The secret ingredient of life is courage. Anyone who discovers the secret ingredient before they die has won the game of life.

:patriot:

[SmileyRose]

36. You just make me think of my Uncle Steve

my mom's brother has Down Syndrome. He's about 10 years older than I am and all he ever talked about was wanting to be a fireman. When he was 30 years old a group that works to get challenged folks jobs managed to get him a job at the local firehouse. He's worked there over 20 years. He basically cleans up behind the fire fighters, helps wash and shine the firetrucks. The guy is in hog heaven. He does fully understand he's 'different' but you CANNOT tell him he isn't a fireman. He is. Uncle Steve would not rest until he got what he wanted. He could have just went out to play, accepted he's different and can't work but that just was not good enough for him. Uncle Steve passed away in June and they gave him the same honor they would have given a fire fighter that died in the line of duty. It was just incredible.

I love your story about the marathon runner. Thanks.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

40. I can relate to the firefighter story, too...

...I came from a small town in Massachusetts. My dad (who passed away in 1993) was a volunteer member of both the police and fire departments. I have a photo, buried away somewhere, of my dad receiving oxygen for a severe case of smoke inhalation at the scene of a major fire.

As I said, it was a small town. The paid city employees on each department constituted about 30% of the total. The rest were people who held other full-time jobs and had police scanner radios in their homes and would jump in the car, no matter what time of day or night, whenever they were needed. My dad put his own life in danger many, many times to save the lives of others. I was a kid when he did it. I didn't understand it then. I understand it now.

True heroes ALWAYS recognize one of their own. That's why the firefighters honored your Uncle Steve. They knew a hero when they saw one.

:patriot:

[pitohui]

31. lies don't help anything and people DO become unemployable

your claim that the church has found 380 jobs for prisoners etc is not relevant, since we don't know how many if even one of those prisoners has a disabled wife with 15 medications and is himself 55 years old -- everyone who is even halfway awake knows that's a fatal combination

besides, we also know what kind of jobs the ex-cons are getting -- jobs with no benefits, jobs where the boss clocks them in late and they're cheated even of min. wage and so on, what the hell use is that to a man of 55 with a disabled wife on 15 medications?

and let's not even forget that 300 of the jobs are for the same few folks who keep getting fired after not showing up for the first one (you see, you are not the only person who knows ex-cons)

hey i knew a guy who was running from the law, for a year he found jobs about the country digging graves, here's a job where no one asks questions or checks your health record because they're paying you cash and not providing benefits

again what the fuck good is a job like that to an older man who has a disabled wife taking 15 medications?

lies and fantasies do not convince, stories that are not relevant to an older man with a disabled spouse do not convince

they just make it seem as if you lack a heart and a brain

stories like this are not the place to preach libertarian self-help bullshit lies, they are the place to point out what a different world it would be if we had health care NOT linked to employment -- employers would no longer have to be so fearful of hiring older people

[onethatcares]

48. but cranking down to 12.00 an hour is not what this guy is used to.

the house on long island and the rest of it costs a lot more than we imagine, throw in the vacation condo in Florida that isn't selling at this point and he's in as bad a shape as an out of work carpenter.

[w4rma]

12. "The operations pieces are all exported to overseas, …"

…
"It's very difficult," Warren said. "The operations pieces are all exported to overseas, and the problem that we face is, guys like Mr. Nawrocki have a problem finding work here."
…

[0rganism]

15. There is something I hope for this downturn...

... that the people who sold out the manufacturing jobs to Mexico, then sold out Mexico to China, wind up in breadlines with the rest of us.

[dixiegrrrrl]

13. He worked 36 years and has no savings?

[sarcasmo]

17. I hate to tell you he is not the only one who has no savings.

[dysfunctional press]

22. he's been out of work since february- i'm guessing that he HAD savings.

:shrug:

[pitohui]

34. he has a disabled wife on 15 medications

you wouldn't have any savings either

people, please read the discussion or at least the article itself before offering cruel comments

[KG]

16. it also may well be that he hasn't to really look for a job in 36 years, and his job search skills

may be out-moded. he just might not know how to repackage himself for whats going on in business today.

and while his lifestyle may or may not be extravagent, losing his job may never have occured to him. also, not many people have 10 months savings to fall back on.

personally, i'm thinking i may not have a real job again for 2 years.

[Cleita]

21. That's a bit harsh.

Some can't get jobs because they are considered over qualified for another lower job. There was a story quite a few years back about an anchorwoman in Los Angeles, who became homeless because she couldn't get a job even as a secretary, the job she had started out with in the news room before getting the anchor job. She lost her anchoring job because Fox bought out the station and they decided they needed a younger more attractive bimbo, who they actually had delivering the news on a bar stool (I kid you not) I guess to show off her legs. The anchorwoman was recognized every time she tried to apply for any job and turned down for being over qualified. She become homeless and was taken in by some nuns who took care of her until her story got out and she was able to get help from co-workers at her former job who had no idea that this had happened to her.

[KG]

25. harsh? i'm totally sympathetic to his plight. i'm over 50 myself and unemployed.

at a recent 'seminar' given by state unemp office i was required to attend, i could see how some older people who had suddenly become a statistic had fallen behind the curve on using job hunting tools and writing comtemporary resumes. there may be jobs opportunities out there he missing out on because he's not effectively using available resources.

[pitohui]

37. if you have a disabled wife on 15 meds, you CAN'T change your job

you simply don't have that option because you are unemployable

it is not legal for your old employer to fire you for having a sick wife that costs the co. insurance plan lots of money, but you'd better cling to that job for dear life, because once you do lose it thru no fault of your own, you will NEVER have another job w. benefits

he can't pass the insurance screen, he CAN'T be hired because of the wife

who doesn't know people who are unable to change jobs because of something like this? it isn't exactly rare!!!

[AllentownJake]

41. Insurance Screen?

Isn't that illegal?

[ogneopasno]

26. Toy industry, eh? Operations management, eh? I guess my first thought when I read this is...

...how many jobs did Mr. Nawrocki outsource in his day?

[Brooklyns_Finest]

39. "Executives"

I work for the Social Security Administration. When I was still a claims representative, I used to process retirement applications for many former executives. Executive is just a title. Sometimes these "Vice Presidents" didn't even make as much as I was making as a claims rep. The average salary that I saw was about $70-90k per year. A decent salary in most places, but in Los Angeles, that does not get you far. Coupled that with the fact that some of the men I interviewed had stay-at-home wives, and you start to see a different picture.

Now if this man's wife never worked and he still has savings over $2k, she would not be eligible for SSI & Medicaid or SSA Disability benefits (assuming she is not yet 62).

He should be looking for a job with the Federal Government. Out of all industries, I think the feds are least likely to discriminate based on age.

[PM Martin]

43. True.

Government jobs tend to look for people with abilities.

[SmileyRose]

44. With respect - one of your points is a bit confusing to me

My Uncle is on SSDI and because he had SSDI benefits for 2 years he automatically qualified for Medicare. Qualifying him for SSDI involved showing him physically or mentally unable to earn an income of his own greater than $700 a month. His accumulated assets nor the income of his wife were not in any way part of the process.

Now, for MediCAID that would have been true - but for SSDI or MediCARE - no one ever once asked about his assets or his wife's income - only HIS ability to earn his own income in the present and future. When his wife passed away in April we took him in and they were still in the process of getting him approved for SSDI. Since it took 3 years his Medicare coverage was almost immediate.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

46. SSDI

I am assuming she never worked or worked very little (it happens a lot). If she never worked, she would not have the quarters of coverage that would allow her to qualify for Social Security Disability benefits. In order to qualify for SSDI you have to meet the 20/40 rule (varies a bit for younger workers). THis means that in the past 10 years or 40 quarters you have 5 years of or 20 quarters of taxable income (I think this year $1000 of taxable income is one credit). If She did not have this at the time of disability then she would be technically denied based on not meeting the earnings requirement.

If she would have met the the earnings requirement, she would then have to meet the medical requirements of DIB. This is determined by the medical analyst (not the claims rep). Generally, if you condition is deemed permanent or terminal, and will prevent you from earning the "significant gainful activity amount" (less than $800 monthly) you should qualify for DIB. You are correct that once one qualifies for SSDI after 25 straights months of being on DIB you will automatically get Medicare.

The disability determination process is very strange. I have interviewed people who were on 10 different medications daily, and yet they were still denied disability.

Oh, I wanted to add that when you making an appointment or walki-in for DIB, we screen you out based on your work history. If you meet DIB earnings standards you see a SSDI representative. If you don't meet the DIB earnings requirement you will be interviewed by an SSI representative.