kentuck
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:26 PM
Original message |
We are the new "centrists". |
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To further explore the subject matter of another post on this page, I think we need to look at how we define ourselves. We limit ourselves by letting others define us. We need to frame the issues in a new reality.
The majority of people in this country support a national healthcare system. It is not a "left-wing" idea anymore. The majority of people support more rights for workers and less rights for corporations. That is not a left-wing idea anymore. Most folks support higher taxes on those that have benefitted so greatly with the "trickle-down" economy of the last 25-30 years. That is no longer a "left-wing" idea. The country has moved toward our positions. We are the new "centrists" on a lot of major issues. We should not limit ourselves with definitions of left-wing vs right-wing framing. We have become more pragmatic because of political realities.
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Romulox
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:28 PM
Response to Original message |
1. "Centrism" is a code word for Center/Right corporatism. I wouldn't wear that label if you paid me. |
kentuck
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
4. And what is "left-wing" a code word for?? |
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It is all about labels and framing.
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AmyCamus
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
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You're welcome for free education.
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Romulox
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
10. "Someone who puts people before profits" nt |
kentuck
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
13. I think that aptly defines our new President? |
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Call it whatever you will. It is only a label. It is results that matter.
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Romulox
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
15. No, our new President is a "centrist". nt |
John Q. Citizen
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Thu Dec-11-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
30. If we want to play word games, fine. But let's look at the proposals and what they actually do and |
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fuck off on whether stuff is "right" or "left" or "center."
This is what bugs me.
We invaded a sovereign country because they have oil and we built Iran into an overnight regional power by taking out their number one competitor, which was Iraq, formerly.
That's wrong.
Not centrist. Not left. not right.
It's wrong.
and our government would like to distract us from that fact.
In fact our whole system of empire is wrong. I don't expect Barack to say that because I don't expect that much from him.
Which leaves it up to us to make sure that it is said.
See, I don't see this framing you speak of being used against the so called right, The Repo Party. I see it being used instead against people who want more change than perhaps Obama has permission to make.
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kentuck
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Thu Dec-11-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #30 |
31. Change does not and will not happen overnight... |
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It is a process. I agree with most of your post.
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riqster
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Thu Dec-11-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #30 |
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Left, Center and Right are not operating along the same continuum as Right and Wrong.
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mdmc
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Thu Dec-11-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #30 |
Oregone
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:29 PM
Response to Original message |
2. "We have become more pragmatic because of political realities." |
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Pragmatism: It's what is needed when you control the executive branch, the House, and the Senate.
:wtf:
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riqster
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:30 PM
Response to Original message |
3. Speaking as Centrist, I agree |
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Centrists are simply the mean between extremes. Healthcare is supported by the majority of American, thus is a centrist position. Ditto withdrawal from Iraq. And so on.
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kentuck
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
8. And even gay-rights is becoming more of a centrist idea... |
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that is accepted by more Americans when, not that long ago, it would have been considered a far left-wing idea. Just as an example.
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riqster
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
25. Exactly! As the majority gets better information, their positions evolve. |
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Anyone who isn't ignorant or blinded by hate can tell that equal rights for all Americans is the way to go.
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Romulox
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
9. Except that "Centrist" Politicians oppose UHC and withdrawal from Iraq...nt |
kentuck
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
12. That are not centrists. |
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They are radical right-wingers, in the old parlance. They are not with the majority of Americans.
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Romulox
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
16. Barack Obama opposes UHC, for example--campaigned against it. |
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Called it "extreme". :hi:
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riqster
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
26. That was a case of definitions, IIRC |
Romulox
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #26 |
28. Yes, in the sense that words have meanings, I guess you're right. |
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Nonetheless, Barack Obama campaigned against single-payer healthcare, no matter what label you choose to place on it. :hi:
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riqster
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Thu Dec-11-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
33. Single-payer and UHC are not guaranteed synonymous |
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I'll take coverage for all Americans in some manner for starters.
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kentuck
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
17. Are you talking about Universal Health Care?? |
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Just so we are on the same page?
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Romulox
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
riqster
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
23. Right-Wingers can call themselves Centrists, but |
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if they hold positions that are far to the right of Center, they are not Centrists.
Labels can be stolen and misused by the crooked: "Fair and balanced" is a good example.
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Romulox
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #23 |
24. Obama campaigned against Universal Healthcare--called it "wrong" and "extreme". nt |
riqster
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #24 |
27. Definition of UHC is key here. nt |
Romulox
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
29. He campaigned AGAINST single payer. nt |
riqster
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Thu Dec-11-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #29 |
32. Which is not the only way to UHC |
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Single-payer is my choice, yeah, but one can skin a cat in multiple manners.
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Romulox
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Thu Dec-11-08 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #32 |
41. Forced purchases of private insurance is NOT "Universal Healthcare". nt |
truedelphi
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:31 PM
Response to Original message |
5. I so much agree with you. |
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Only 32% of all American voters identified themselves as Dems last spring. And of course, only 28% of all voters identified themselves as Republicans.
Now that leaves a healthy 40% of all Americans who are thinking outside of the block. Now granted a small majority of those people might be John Birchers or Trotsky-ites or Maoists. But I would say that probably about 37% of us are further to the left on most issues than they want us to know.
One way you can tell about how radical the makeup of our population is, involves looking at the M$M's teasers. CNN had "Americans want to impeach Bush" stories as teasers even four years ago. And they would announce they would cover that story at the top of the hour, and not get to it till towards the end. That means they know a whole lotta people want to hear that story. Not just 2 or 3%.
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AmyCamus
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:31 PM
Response to Original message |
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"pragmatic" is "centrist" for "sell out"
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kentuck
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
11. I only speak for myself... |
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The center has moved. You are stuck in another world. The old left-wing is becoming the new "center". That is my framing. I don't pretend to speak for anyone else.
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waiting for hope
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:39 PM
Response to Original message |
14. Labels is what puts things in a quagmire - |
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Can we just call it Common Sense?
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eleny
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:41 PM
Response to Original message |
18. Our goal is to make our ideas mainstream |
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But I'd have to be arm twisted into giving up a liberal identity. Surely there's a benefit to our ideas being viewed as mainstream.
See that? I still have difficulty using the "c" word. :D
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kentuck
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
21. liberal is the new centrist. |
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out of necessity, we have been re-born. There is nothing wrong with the majority of the people agreeing with you. Call it whatever.
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riqster
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Thu Dec-11-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #21 |
35. If we take the old adage of "Left is right" |
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...then it should come as no surprise that the majority of Americans have adopted much of Left's agenda.
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Robbien
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:43 PM
Response to Original message |
20. It is a continuation of us and them. Centrists against the far out wacko Left and Right |
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Obama said there is the far left and the far right but he is a Centrist.
There are the crazies and there are the Centrists. Black and White. For or Against.
This is standard Rahm Emanual Bush Dog philosophy which appears to be the one adopted in today's Obama speech.
There are no sane Center Leftists, no sane Lefties and no sane Far Lefties. Everyone to the left of the New Centrist are wacked out loons.
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kentuck
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Thu Dec-11-08 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
22. If that is the way you wish to look at it? |
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I don't personally think that is a very productive viewpoint if we want to accomplish all the things that the "left" has supported over the years. If we can get it done, what does it matter what we call it?
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Greyhound
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Thu Dec-11-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #22 |
37. It's been like this for recorded history. The left is correct and has to drag |
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the rest into the future, always to be proven correct, at which point the established bakers of the status quo claim credit, discount the next step, and the process starts again.
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mdmc
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Thu Dec-11-08 01:59 PM
Response to Original message |
36. I will never be a centrist |
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I will always be a leftist...
If the sheeple want health care, safe work environments, fair taxation, then they can drop their centrist corporatism and join the workers... the left...
When corporations do what is in the best interest of the working class over their profits, I will be a centrist. Will that ever happen?
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riqster
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Thu Dec-11-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #36 |
39. I'd say it differently |
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that when PEOPLE matter more than Corporations. And I see signs of that happening.
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bigtree
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Thu Dec-11-08 02:50 PM
Response to Original message |
40. centrism is one set of means to an end |
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Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 02:51 PM by bigtree
. . . the center shouldn't be the place where we begin our advocacy.
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