What do you suggest Obama do about the Rick Warren problem?

[ColbertWatcher]

[Laelth]

1. This is important. Please k&r.

Many of us are frustrated, angry, and bitter about this issue, and understandably so. Some people need to vent about it, and that's good. But it might also be productive to ask what we would have Obama do about it now. If you agree, k&r.

The United States is a LIBERAL Country.

:dem:

-Laelth

[ColbertWatcher]

4. Thank you. n/t

[Laelth]

7. My pragmatist streak is showing.

You're welcome.

The United States is a LIBERAL Country.

:dem:

-Laelth

[ColbertWatcher]

11. I've been trying to figure out a solution for this.

I've tried to encourage people to help expose Warren's hate http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4680741&mesg_id=4680741

And now, with this thread, I've tried to look ahead to the day and see what alternatives there are.

I look at it this way: nothing has happened yet. The Warren pick is a trial balloon. We need to show Obama and our fellow Americans how it sits with us.

For the record, I don't think people who hold his fringe beliefs deserve national exposure, outside a courtroom and that it's a disgrace that we are still holding prayers during state functions. If we have to violate the Constitution, why pick someone who defines himself, his faith and his ministry by who he hates?

Shameful.

[Laelth]

19. I think Obama made a big mistake picking Warren.

But it would also be a big mistake to show weakness before he's even sworn in. I don't think it's wise to back down in the face of opposition (even from some of his most faithful supporters). And I hate saying that.

But the "Democrats are wimps" meme has been killing us for years. As I argued here: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Laelth/12. Once it's over, I hope Obama will at least admit it was a mistake.

:shrug:

The United States is a LIBERAL Country.

:dem:

-Laelth

[ColbertWatcher]

30. I don't think it would be weak to admit he made a mistake and correct it ...

... before it's too late.

[Laelth]

32. In principle, I agree with you.

I fear, however, that the media and the American people would see such a move as a sign of weakness. Not that they should. Only that they would.

The United States is a LIBERAL Country.

:dem:

-Laelth

[ColbertWatcher]

40. Not necessarily.

If Obama allows Warren to stay, but either cancels the unConstitutional prayer at a state function or finds a more appropriate replacement, like Lowery.

[SammyWinstonJack]

16. K&R! Un invite him!

[EFerrari]

2. I don't see what Obama can do now. Warren will not go quietly.

[ColbertWatcher]

5. if Warren becomes a liability ...

... Obama may have no choice but to dump him.

Unless Warren has some integrity and step aside.

David Corn said on Rachel Maddow's show, said something like this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4680741&mesg_id=4680741

Of course, he said it better.

[WeDidIt]

3. IF Obama had courage, he would uninvite Warren

I suspect cowardice will be the course he takes.

[ColbertWatcher]

6. Obama is always telling everyone we are the change we need.

I suspect he may have been forced to go with an evangelical, but nothing has happened yet, so there's still a chance of changing that.

[Sheri]

8. kick

[Sebastian Doyle]

9. Well, if the war criminals Chimp and Cheney are allowed to attend the ceremony

(and I believe the incumbent always is) then it's hard to say Warren should be excluded from attendance on that basis. But he damn well should NOT be preaching the Invocation.

Put me down for option B

Now if someone manages to frame Warren in a shoe-throwing incident, I certainly wouldn't mind. :evilgrin:

[scarletwoman]

10. I picked option 2. I don't care if Warren attends, as long as he's not on stage. (nt)

[lostnotforgotten]

12. The Invitation Should Be Revoked!

eom

[Stinky The Clown]

13. DSend him a copy of TVGuide so he figure out what he wants to watch on teevee that day

... while he stays home in his castle bought and paid for by the tithings of the legions of sheep who believe the same shit he does.

[Libertyfirst]

34. Send me a copy of TV guide so I can decide what I want to watch that day. n/t

[Ken Burch]

14. It would be inclusion enough to let him attend the inaugural.

If the president-elect had left it at that, nobody would have cared and he'd have lost nothing.

[Lisa0825]

15. Let him speak but.....

require his invocation to be pre-approved, and address the GLBT rights issue STRONGLY in Barack's speech... He can make this a major statement, and it could be even more effective BECAUSE of the presence of Warren. That is why I am in "wait and see" mode. If Obama lets the moment go by without capitalizing on it for GLBTs and those of us in alliance, then I will criticize him too.

[ColbertWatcher]

24. Good idea; I just hope it doesn't become a missed opportunity. n/t

[earth mom]

17. Kick Warren to the curb! Simple as that! nt

[4 t 4]

23. He should respond to the majority

I don't know what that is but I have an idea as to what it might be. All political leaders should have to respond to the majority. Do what the majority wants right ? The people, right ?

[yardwork]

18. Obama can't uninvite him now. Obama can't ask him not to speak.

Obama can't fix this. He has to move on. The only way Obama is going to win back my active support - instead of passive non-support - is to convince me (again) that the rights of all people including GLBTQ matter to him and his administration.

Obama won me back once before, and then he smacked me down again, so I'm understandably leery about him.

Time will tell.

[peacetalksforall]

20. I voted to let him speak - perhaps he will spologize for something.

Feinstein, Pelosi, Reid, and other Dems are really dense and they are DLC - milguetoast disastrous-to-the-liberal, DLC members. They don't get progressive, but they do get evangelical, especially the inroads they make with evangelicals. Though I am still extremely angry, I don't see how the decision can be reversed.

They didn't get away with this decision to invite them and they are not going to get away with the decision to uninvite him.

The only good to come from this is the attention to caring and not caring for our own.

I completely dismissed Warren and never paid attention to him - now I have to add another name to my list of reverends I can't respect (read detest). It's one thing to be against the gay-lesbian justice, it's another to actively participate against prop 8 side by side with all the other evangelicals, including the Mormons.

I am really having a problem with organized religion. I think the focus should rotate to the separation of Church and State. I see this and everything that is going on as a war against the people by the religious. I am very disallusioned in religious generals, lieutenants, and foot soldiers. I've had it. They are pro hate, pro death, pro war, pro sticking their face in everyones' lives and trying to convert all of us.

I also regret that this event has pushed the focus on Mormon activism to the side.

[eridani]

21. Other

Specifically denounce his attitudes toward gays and women in the inaugural address.

[ColbertWatcher]

22. I like that, but to avoid mixed messages, dump Warren. n/t

[yodoobo]

25. I'm going to trust Obama's Judgment on this

I don't like this Warren thing at all. But I've made a decision to trust him. To trust our President.

If anything is true, I'll take this Obama's judgment over virtually anyones.

For me to start questioning his judgment now, before he even takes office - After everything he has done he done for the party and our country, it would be immoral to undermine him now.

Obama has alot of work to do for us and our country. I'm not going to make it any harder for him.

[arthritisR_US]

27. Isn't this what Brittany Spears said about the chimp in Moore's flick? hmmm. n/t

[yodoobo]

29. Obama is not Bush

Please.

Look, you make a good point. But I wouldn't have voted for the man if I didn't believe in him.

[arthritisR_US]

35. No he is not but he is human and, blind sentiment is as well. n/t

[arthritisR_US]

26. Warren is the reason I will not be watching the Inauguration and 2

friends have cancelled their plans to attend.

[ColbertWatcher]

31. Wow, they cancelled? That's harsh. n/t

[arthritisR_US]

33. yep, and they're not gay just pro human rights and find Warren morally

repulsive.

[ColbertWatcher]

43. Every thinking person should find Warren repulsive.

I just hope for your friend's sake Obama finds a solution to his mistake.

[arthritisR_US]

46. so do I! One is angrily disgusted and the other seems despondent, breaks my heart. n/t

[ColbertWatcher]

54. I think if Warren was invited to compensate gays later ...

... it's too disrespectful a strategy for Obama. He's always seem to be able to avoid such an outright cheap political move.

I've never thought he was perfect, but this is really beneath him.

[glitch]

28. Expose the agenda of Christian Dominionists and name Warren as one of its minions

Preferably with some type of J'Accuse! dramatic scene broadcast live on national television.

However, I would settle for an empathic, "we will do our best to help you evolve out of your sociopathy", offer of "inclusion" as long as it is blatantly obvious even to the dimmest fundie that "no, in fact your ideology is not legitimate, yes in fact you are bigots, but we do love you and will do everything we can to help you get well and rejoin our healthy, vibrant and hopeful community, albeit as lesser players with absolutely no power".

[ColbertWatcher]

36. Blagojevich is the classic example of a sociopath.

Dominionists will consider the outstretched hand of liberals the same way Blago is considering the Illinois legislature and Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan and the Illinois Senator whose seat he's supposed to be picking a replacement for, and on and on and on ...

[glitch]

38. True. But my scenarios were fun to imagine, for a little while. For me anyway.

So how do we de-program them en masse? I am not sure we can afford to wait for them to snap out of it on their own, in their own time.

[ColbertWatcher]

39. Go back to following the law.

Cancel Faith Based Initiatives.

No more government cash to groups that discriminate.

[glitch]

61. That's a start. nt

[Swamp Rat]

37. Un-invite him from the inaugural.

Christofascists will never accept Obama on any terms anyway, so to HELL with them.

[ColbertWatcher]

42. This cannot be said enough! n/t

[stillcool]

41. Cancel the Inauguration...

we want a do-over. Although I would prefer an apology from Obama, I'm sure that's not good enough.

[ColbertWatcher]

44. Spending so much money on a ceremony when so many people are suffering ...

... doesn't seem like such a great idea anymore.

[stillcool]

49. this country doesn't sound..

like a very good idea anymore. A country supposedly is defined by it's people. And the people of this country are not interested in any common purpose whatsoever. I don't think there is anything worth celebrating.

[scarletwoman]

45. I suggest Obama do unto Rick Warren as he did unto Reverend Wright. (nt)

[EmeraldCityGrl]

47. I'm straight. As an Atheist my views on all controversies

of a religious tone are generally rendered moot. But, I'm extremely angered and disappointed with Obama's choice of such a divisive
religious figure at such a monumentally meaningful occasion for so many. The fundies have had eight years to rub our faces in their
aggressive, judgemental world view of what constitutes a moral life.

Obama doesn't make mistakes like this. This was a well considered politically strategic decision for reasons that have yet to be revealed.
If he backs down he's screwed and if he goes forward with his decision he's going to regret it at a later date.

So this is what "change" looks like?

[alfredo]

48. Give Rick Warren an honorable way out. It must by a Warren move. It is up

to him to do the right thing. If Obama does it, the media will go wild. Warren must make a plausible argument why he thinks it would be best for him to step aside. You know, say something about not wanting that day to be about him, it is Obama's day.

If Warren was an honorable man, a man that can put his ego aside, he should gracefully bow out.

[ColbertWatcher]

50. IF he is an honorable man. Beautifully put. n/t

[alfredo]

51. Thank you. The Rye must have helped me think clearly tonight.

[W_HAMILTON]

52. Propose some sort of sweeping gay rights legislation

Have Obama state his intention to repeal DOMA, and seek recognition for same-sex civil unions at the federal level (wouldn't doing so force those states that "banned" same-sex marriage to recognize the civil unions?).

It's possible Warren will uninvite himself if such a thing were to occur. If so, good. Change the situation around. Instead of Obama looking like the inclusive one by allowing Warren a part in the presidential inauguration, put the onus on Warren to continue his role in the inauguration after Obama proposed such landmark GLBT legislation. If Warren still stays, so be it. If he chooses to decline the invitation, then he looks to be the bigot that we all know him to be.

[ColbertWatcher]

53. He could pull a Truman ...

... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_9981

But, honoring such a bigoted person as Warren to later demand gays accept later compensation is too disrespectful; it's not something I expect from Obama. Granted, I don't think he's perfect, but he's never been outright disrespectful.

[Lifetimedem]

55. Warrens position

is one that is held by probably 95% of evangelicals.

Should Obama not be their president?

I have attended churches that would not allow a PRACTICING OUT gay to be a member, they also would not allow a divorced man to be a member or a man that likes a beer with his pizza or that smokes. I even attended a church that did not allow you to be a member if you worked in a store that sold alcohol.

Churches are allowed to decide membership requirements, those requirements do not deny anyone the right to attend services, they simply deny membership (which means leadership in the church as a rule .)

Why would one want membership in a church that would not be open to their life style ?


Barrak is reaching out to the evangelical community. This is a good thing. Evangelicals run soup kitchens, food and clothing pantries, social service agencies, HIV ministries to the sick and dying among other things.

So we have members that do not like what they believe.. Well bulletin,...... they do not like what we may believe . So do we have a divided America now?

We want tolerance from those that do not like or agree with us...but it seems the willingness to allow others to believe and live the way they choose to be part of this administration?

Selective tolerance can also be called hypocrisy !

[ColbertWatcher]

57. Love the bigot, hate the bigotry.

The Warren invitation is disrespectful.

It may have seemed okay before, but not now. As I posted in another thread: when women were given the vote, men were not expected to give up theirs. When slaves were freed, white men were not enslaved in exchange.

Freedom is not a zero-sum game; one group is not expected to wait their turn or subject themselves to insults or further discrimination for the promise of rights at some future date.

Either we follow the Constitution or we don't.

Obama should do away with the invocation and replace it with an inspiring speech about the Constitution delivered by an historian or teacher.

[Lifetimedem]

58. The invocation is a historic tradition

Just because the speaker offends you is no reason to eliminate it.



I get the feeling you would like to have evangelicals silenced so as not to offend you.

By its very nature freedom of speech is the freedom to be insulted.

[ColbertWatcher]

59. The invocation offends me.

In the English tradition of the monarchy, the King must be married and have heirs.

Elizabeth changed that tradition.

The people began bitching that she couldn't have children.

She declared herself a "Virgin."

Again, the leader changed the tradition.

Obama is a leader, he can change the "tradition."

[Lifetimedem]

64. As I said

Freedom of speech is also the freedom to be offended.

So cover your ears or hum a tune

[donheld]

56. Get rid of any prayer at the damned thing

[ColbertWatcher]

60. I thought maybe an historian or teacher ...

... could deliver a nice speech about the Constitution.

[GeorgeGist]

62. Accept the swift kick in the ass ...

he so richly deserves.

[jetphixer]

63. Idea

If The FAT BIGOT christo Nazi cone of silence asshole has to speak also have a rabbi an a Muslim cleric speak or offer opening prayer 4 what ever its worth..