...And the Kitchen Sink (So Far) on Mike Connell’s Tragic Last Flight

[McCamy Taylor]

First, he ran out of gas.

Then, amateur videos showed the crashed plane burning…airplane fuel. And we realized that if the ear witnesses could hear the engine on its way down, Connell could not have been out of fuel.

That is when they told us it was the weather.

I decided to find out if the running out of gas ever made sense in the first place, and if the MSM was doing its job, or if they have been helping Rove and Co. pull the wool over our eyes.

Assuming that he set off with a full tank (which most pilots do on a long journey) in order to find out if Connell was likely to have run out of gas, I needed to know which airport he flew out it. Funny thing, the US press was not saying. All I could find out was that he was flying to Akron “from Pennsylvania”. Pennsylvania is a very big state. Where in Pennsylvania?

I got my answer from the British press. College Park, Maryland in Pennsylvania. But wait. College Park, Maryland isn’t in Pennsylvania. Why is the US MSM giving us misinformation?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/3885913/George-Bush-aide-dies-in-plane-crash.html

Top internet strategist Michael Connell, 45, was the only person in his single-engine private plane that crashed three miles short of the Akron-Canton airport on Friday night as he prepared to land after flying from College Park, Maryland, close to Washington.

Maybe the news got garbled as it made its way across the Atlantic. Better look for confirmation. I’ll Google “Mike Connell” and “flight plan”.

http://www.ohio.com/news/break_news/36482529.html

The plane was on final approach to Akron-Canton Airport's Runway 23 when it went down, said Kristie Van Auken, spokeswoman for the airport.
Van Auken identified the plane as a Piper Saratoga, a single-engine propeller craft capable of carrying up to seven passengers.
The plane, which was made in 1997, is owned by a Richfield corporation, Sierra-November Aviation, at 3046 Brecksville Road, according to the Federal Aviation Administration registry.
FlightAware, a Web site that tracks flight plans, reported that the plane was coming from College Park, Md., departing at 3:31 p.m. and scheduled to arrive at Akron-Canton at 5:43 p.m.
The plane had flown from Akron to College Park Thursday morning.

Here is info about FlightAware from their website and wiki. It appears that IFR or Instrument Flight Rated pilots and flights register at this site (rather than VFR), although I can not be certain. If so, this implies that Mr. Connell was IFR rated and that this was an IFR flight. This will be important later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FlightAware
http://flightaware.com/about/

Here is information about the College Park, Maryland Airport where the flight originated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_Park_Airport

It is a public airport, and the world’s oldest continuously operated airport.

Since the 9/11 attacks, and owing to the airport's proximity to the national capital, the operations of the airport have been severely restricted by the Transportation Security Administration in the interest of national security, but civilian pilots are still free to use the airport after going through a one-time background check procedure.

Just to be thorough here is more on the troubled relationship between the airport and the TSA:

http://www.collegeparkairport.org/vetting.html

http://media.www.diamondbackonline.com/media/storage/paper873/news/2005/02/15/NewsoffCampus/City-Airport.Reopens.To.Outside.Pilots-2320709.shtml

Predictably, business has been bad for the airport for the last 7 years. The Bush administration has the College Park Airport between a rock and a hard place, the same way that they had Viacom/CBS under their thumb over their lack of compliance with media ownership rules when they persuaded Sumner Redstone to throw Dan Rather to the wolves. Just saying. Wonder if that is why the US press keeps telling us that Connell flew out of Pennsylvania?

The distance between College Park, Maryland and Akron Ohio is 283 miles (455 km). Here is some info on Connell’s plane:

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-7828080/Piper-Saratoga-and-Lance-it.html

Note that with four people on board, the plane can travel 2 ½ to 3 ½ hours without refueling. Planes can typically travel longer distances if fewer people are on board since they can carry more fuel. If there is a head wind they will go more slowly, so they will go less far on the same fuel. There will typically be a headwind (coming from the west) in the northeast this time of year that an experienced pilot would be able to predict and figure into his calculations. So this would cut down the time the plane can travel.

But most important of all, if Connell filed an IFR plan, he would have had to have had enough extra fuel to (I hope I am getting this right, it comes from an IFR pilot but via me) to fly an extra 45 minutes plus the time it would take to get to an alternative airport. If he filed IFR but predicted the weather was going to be beautiful, he would still need an extra 45 minutes of fuel. If he filed VFR (and I am not sure that you can file with FlightAware VFR) he would still need an extra 30 minutes of fuel. He was supposed to arrive in Akron at 543 pm. The news report says that the plane was attempting to land around 6 pm.

In the worst case scenario for Mr. Connell, he had a fully instrument loaded plane, but he was not instrument flight rated, and he filed (and fueled) VFR so he only had an extra 15 minutes of fuel by the time he reached Akron-Canton Airport.

http://www.akroncantonairport.com/akroncantonairportnavaids.htm

In this situation, if the weather was beginning to cloud up and ceilings were dropping, he might have tried to make a landing that he was not capable of and crashed due to lack of instrument rating combined with lack of fuel.

If he was instrument rated and if he filed IFR and had followed procedures, he should have had at least 30 more minutes of fuel. This would have allowed him the time to wait if conditions were spotty as some have reported. Here is the Bradblog video which shows the downed plane burning on what White House apologists have tried to call “fumes.”

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6769

Brad questions reports of bad weather given the clear weather on the ground. However, that does not mean it was not shitty a half mile up. Here is the weather history for Akron, Ohio on Friday Dec. 19, 2008.

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KAKR/2008/12/19/DailyHistory.html?req_city=Akron&req_state=OH&req_statename=Ohio

At 5:54 PN, temp is 33.1 F on the ground, overcast, visibility 5 miles, wind from the NW 9.2 mph, humidity 96%. Note that readings before and after this were below freezing. Recall that the eye/ear witnesses on the ground describe hearing the engine falling from the sky. In the weather conditions reported, ice on the plane--wings, maybe or carburetor--is possible. In this case, he should have given some indication to the Akron-Canton airport tower that he was having difficulty controlling his plane before he lost control completely—everything in this paragraph comes to me from my IFR friend again.

This leads me to number one on my wish list: Where is the transcript of Connell’s interaction with the Akron-Canton control tower? Does he report signs consistent with ice on the wings? Would the transcript clear up this case right now? Not two months from now. Is this an accidental death being made to look more sinister than it is to scare others into keeping their mouths shut?

Karl Rove has allowed his political opponents to speculate that he is capable of murder in order to intimidate them into silence before. I refer to the Ebersol plane crash in 2004. The JT Hatfield case was also meant to be an object lesson to reporters and people who had dirt on W. Talk and Rove will make your life a living hell. Ordinarily, someone who has done this twice already, would not dare try it again. But Karl Rove's greatest weakness as a political strategist is that if a tactic works once, he will repeat it over and over again, even though it means that other people will be able to anticipate his actions, almost as if he is unaware of the presence of other people as variables that have to be factored into an equation. Like doing political algebra when he should be doing political calculus. While that Ebersol plane crash was eventually called the result a result of pilot error, I believe that Rove deliberately used the crash to enhance his “Rove-Rasputin” reputation. He allowed rumors to run wild. People who might have raised objections to Election Theft Ohio 2004 looked at Teddy Ebersol and thought to themselves Keith Olbermann spoke out, and Rove killed a child. Fear is a powerful weapon for Rove and for this administration.

So, consider the possibility that the White House—innocent or guilty--- wants people to speculate so that the other people who know too much about a variety of Bush-Cheney crimes will keep their mouths shut.

That is all I have been able to come up with so far. It would help if press used its resources to its job and did not make people with computers do it for free. But the days when reporters got ahead by doing investigative journalism are long gone. Now, they make their fortunes by promoting politicians and contributing to the financial well being of their parent corporations.

And everyone,demand loudly that the Akron-Canton Airport release its control tower transcripts!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

1. Suicide or murder? I say murder. nt

[tom_paine]

2. Murder - 99% certain.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

3. I agree. Murdering little fascist repukes. They belong on death row nt

[lala_rawraw]

83. i don't think we can say that yet

there is not enough evidence, there are serious questions to be answered, i agree, but we don't know anything at 99% at this point... i would say not even at 60%... :D

[Prepostericity]

157. That's a strange post

Not 60%? Is it fair to say Alexandrovna thus believes it is more likely than not that Mike Connell was murdered?

Why won't she reveal what Connell told her? Why the delay from Ms. RawStory?

[Name removed]

159. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Prepostericity]

163. The truth can't be banned

I found an interesting article on Brett Kimberlin of Velvet Revolution.

http://www.bostonphoenix.com/alt1/archive/styles/96/12/05/SINGER.html

If you go to part 5 , it reads:

"A free man since 1993, Kimberlin is back in business. Only this time he trucks in a different trade, supplying everything from automobile parts to chicken parts for clients in Ukraine, associates of friends he made in prison...."

Earlier one can read that he had learned Russian in prison. Hmmm, who else do we know from the Ukraine?



:wow:

[Truth2Tell]

45. Or is he still alive?

:shrug:

[natrat]

4. they us a groud operated laser gun that frys the electronics-seriously

[antipode]

24. How exactly would that cause the plane to crash?

??

[librechik]

35. without electronics

the instruments stop working, the pumps quit pumping, after a minute or two without pumps the engine stops working and you fall somewhat awkwardly (wings help,) but not all planes ar good at gliding, tho the Piper has a great rep for that--maybe that's why he missed occupied houses--there was some pilot control

[antipode]

47. There is absolutely no need for an electrical system for that engine to run.

They have self-contained magnetos. There are no electrically-operated "pumps" either. Actually Piper Cherokee-type planes are pretty shitty gliders but they will fly perfectly well without any electrics whatsoever.
I love how all the armchair experts weigh in on these subjects that they know zero about.

Adding this...one of my airplanes (I have 3) has no battery, no generator or alternator, no radios or lights, not one single thing that
requires an electrical source. It is a fairly well known type, a classic Piper J3 Cub.

[certainot]

61. what if the altimeter reads higher than you are, at night

[antipode]

67. The altimeter doesn't run on electricity. It can, of course, be set wrong and read

high (or low). In any case, no sane pilot flies at marginally low altitudes and most definitely not at night.

[librechik]

75. thx for the info

just answering your question about why electronics might cause a plane to stop working. I'm not buying in to that theory. I just smell something bad going on here. I'm a lot more curious about the fire, and when it started.

Piper Cubs are extraordinary.

[antipode]

88. My honor, your honor. :D I have no particular opinion on the details of this incident,

not knowing much about them; I just prefer that what is known and what is factual is given at least equal time to some of the outre' suggestions that invariably pop up when airplanes return to earth in less than excellent condition. It is most assuredly -possible- that some person or committee engineered this crash but it is at least equally probable and more likely that it was an unfortunate confluence of the various ways in which genies of the world drop their pants and urinate on the pillars of science.

[annm4peace]

176. Is this similar to the plane Wellstone was in when it went down?

http://www.opednews.com/thoreau1203_wellstone_assassinated.htm


Fetzer also noted that Wellstone's plane was "exceptional, the pilots well-qualified, and the weather posed no significant problems." He wrote that "we have to consider other, less palatable, alternatives, such as small bombs, gas canisters or electromagnetic pulse, radio frequency or High Energy Radio Frequency weapons designed to overwhelm electrical circuitry with an intense electromagnetic field. An abrupt cessation of communication between the plane and the tower took place at about 10:18 a.m., the same time an odd cell phone phenomenon occurred with a driver in the immediate vicinity. This suggests to me the most likely explanation is that one of our new electromagnetic weapons was employed."

Michael Ruppert, publisher of From the Wilderness, wrote that the day after the crash he received a message from a former CIA operative who was familiar with those kinds of assassinations. The message read, "As I said earlier, having played ball with this current crop of reinvigorated old white men, these clowns are nobody to screw around with. There will be a few more strategic accidents. You can be certain of that."

[nikto]

57. Laser? Actually, I thought it was...

...a high-intensity, focused, micro-wave
"blaster" that shuts off hydraulics and electronics.

Our AF uses a variation of it in jamming opponents' hardware
during air-fights.

Sounds similar to the type-of-device used against
WELLSTONE and CARNAHAN, and possibly John Kennedy Junior as well.


CUI BONO.
("who benefits?)

You will find NO air crashes of this type that
DO NOT BENEFIT rightwing/Korporate Conservatives.

I repeat:

You will find NO AIR CRASHES of this type that
DO NOT BENEFIT rightwing/Korporate Conservatives.


This man's knowledge was potentially devastating to the Korporate Rightwing.
He HAD to be eliminated.

[certainot]

62. here's a list of lefties offed by plane, NTSB untrustworthy

cheryl seal's list - note samantha smith---- http://www.unknownnews.net/cdd1120.html

and according to recent posts elsewhere:

"Also, NTSB (now acting) Chair is Mark Rosenker. Rosenker most recently served as GW Bush's head of the White House Military Office 2001-2005. He also served in the George HW Bush Administration. And is a retired USAF Reserve General (entered the service in '69). "

"In 1972, Rosenker was able to be a member of Nixon's Campaign to Reelect the President, also known as CREEP. Since this campaign, Rosenker participated in every presidential campaign to date."

[antipode]

69. Someone has been reading too many Batman comics.

:eyes:

[RC]

137. How?

"...a high-intensity, focused, micro-wave
"blaster" that shuts off hydraulics and electronics."

Hydraulics are mechanical devices. The pump normally runs off the engine.

So tell me how "...a high-intensity, focused, micro-wave "blaster"" can shut off the hydraulics?

It can't be used to "jam" hardware like cable actuated control surfaces either.

[anigbrowl]

135. There are no 'laser guns that fry electronics'

Too mcu science-fiction for you. Read up on some basic physics, or talk to a laser engineer.

[annm4peace]

177. guess you didn't see 60 minutes piece on crowd control

[Ichingcarpenter]

5. Kick nominated ..... thanks for the links

I was concerned when the former VP of a major electronic election machine company died
in a plane crash in South America with a convicted former DEA agent.


That's electioneering

[byronius]

6. Thanks for this work.

[aquart]

7. Clarify for my utter ignorance....

Whether he was instrument rated or not, he would still have radio contact with the control tower? So there would be a record no matter what? (I mentioned my ignorance going in, right?)

And I don't get how a plane can carry more fuel if it has less passengers since fuel and passengers don't occupy the same seats. I would have thought that the fuel would simply last longer with fewer passengers like in a car.

[The Straight Story]

8. I would GUESS that the fuel thing has to do with weight

Which affects fuel usage. Less fuel, more humans, more initial MPG maybe.

Like I said, just a guess.

[formercia]

28. It was a 7 passenger aircraft and he was alone.

At 5:43, it was already dark and he might not have been unable to see any icing.

I've flown in icing conditions. I was in a high-wing Cessna. I was able to tell there was icing by looking down at the left tire and noticing the ice building up on the leading edge.
What happens is that the wings begin to lose lift and you have to apply power to maintain altitude. There comes a point where you're at full throttle and the aircraft is still losing altitude. It's just a matter of time before you hit. I was able to notice it in time and divert into clear air where the ice soon evaporated.

Fuel starvation from contamination could cause loss of power.

[Mister Ed]

53. I wonder whether the earwitnesses heard the engine running loudly or softly.

I think normally, when approaching the airport and three miles out, the engine would be running at low RPM to allow the plane to gently descend. But, as you point out, a pilot desperate to regain altitude lost due to wing icing would have the throttle wide open, and the engine running very loudly. Does anyone know which sound the witnesses heard?

[formercia]

54. That's the same thought I had.

If it was fuel starvation from whatever cause, the engine would be out or sputtering.

[nashville_brook]

10. that's my thought as well -- if he knew he was in trouble (running out of gas) he likely

would have been calling for an alternate place to land... no?

[McCamy Taylor]

11. Yes, he could still have radio. Instruments allow him to fly without seeing.

I.e it is like flying with radar guidance.

You can only carry a certain amount of weight in a small plane. The fuel has weight. So, the fewer passengers you carry, the more fuel you can carry.

[jmowreader]

22. Planes are rated to carry a certain amount of weight

Let's say you have an airplane that weighs 2500 pounds with full fluids but no fuel and its maximum takeoff weight is 4000 pounds--hence, maximum weight of fuel, passengers and cargo is 1500 pounds. If you carry yourself and one passenger (figure 200 pounds per person with baggage), you could carry 1100 pounds of fuel. If you carry yourself and three passengers, you can only carry 700 pounds of fuel.

[Pastiche423]

9. Was there a body found in the debris?

How long does it take for bones to burn to ashes?

[emlev]

46. The news report said he had been wearing a business suit

Implication was that the body was recognizable. Though I don't know how, with that fire.

[snot]

12. K'd, r'd, and sent to multiple news outlets.

Everyone, pls do this.

[ladym55]

13. Speculation in Akron very limited

The Beacon Journal is focusing on Connell, saint and family man who will be sorely missed. Any questions on Connell's work for the RNC or the circumstances of his death are dismissed as tinfoil hat conspiracy theories from left-wing types ... you know, the kind of conspiracy theorists who think the election was stolen in 2004. Channel 3 just reports that Connell has died and we are all sad. Only channel 19 brings up any of the issues reported here on DU.

Here is one Beacon story:

http://www.ohio.com/news/36521859.html

With these FINE statements (I love "journalists"):

Mr. Connell's role as a witness has erupted a storm cloud of conspiracy theories about his death on left-leaning Internet blog sites.

Bob Fitrakis, one of the Columbus attorneys who filed the lawsuit, a former Green Party candidate for president and a political blogger known for his conspiracy theories on election stealing in Ohio, said word of Mr. Connell's death ''sent a chill down my spine.''

Jason Mauk, executive director of the Ohio Republican Party, discounted the conspiracy theories.

''I don't think Mike had nearly as much to do with that as the tin-foil-hat community would believe,'' he said.

The biggest lesson I'm taking from this is how very, very controlled our press is. What should be a story is not covered at all. Instead all energy is focused on Obama's associations with Blago.

[stubtoe]

33. Excellent post

[verges]

71. The BJ has been a rag ever since-

Knight-Ridder sold it. John S. Knight is spinning in his grave seeing what his paper has come to.

[BrklynLiberal]

14. Much too convenient to be an "accident". Another BushCO enemy

"dies in crash of small aircraft".
The other choice was "suicide in a sleazy motel room".
I wonder if they let him choose..

[MrMickeysMom]

15. Murder...

... Now, I suspect some might relegate this thread to the dungeon for thinking such a possibility?

... along with JFK, MLK, RFK, and September 11 MIHOP, or LIHOP?

It HAS happened before, it happens now and unfortunately, will STILL happen in the future. We are that vulnerable.

[peacetalksforall]

16. Tidbits of curiosity ...

Last night on DU, someone said there were receipts from breakfast found in his wallet.
Tonight I watched the fire.
Tonight I heard one of the witnesses say that there was a gun like noise.
All day long the Republican meda has been talking about the Denver runway accident, not a word about his that I heard.

If there was a wallet, there could have been a briefcase, phone, ipod, blackberry.

How is it possible to have a wallet as salvage given that fire? Were those items placed in a fire proof box?

Nothing is going to make much sense until we hear stories about who watched and fueled the aircraft while he attended meetings.

It's time to consider remote intervention. If a 747 can be flown from the U.S. to Sydney by remote control and if weapon-toys are still being made, this is possible.

Why did the early photos show pieces of the aircraft in a setting with with daylight and no blackened metal or fire searing. The photo had fresh looking metal with color showing. Was that photo a fake, a sample, or was the fire film a fake?

Never has motivation for a take-out been so compelling. Ruthless people erasing and writing messages. Absolutley sinister assassinators and schemers. In addition to protecting the Party, convictions, out-of-control exposure to votes and e-mail, we have a Cheney and Bush legacy issue. Both of them were working hard the last coupld of weeks and this week to create a legacy.

Don't let this die. Fight the Republican media. Fight our own Dems if they don't keep this alive and kicking.

I hope Paul Thompson has started a chronology.

The man was evil and horribly misguided (thought he could stop abortion with his talents and knowledge), but I felt sorry for him - his body and possession in high flames.

Potential whistleblowers are enemies of the White House. Will someone remind me again why they say that America is the greatest nation on earth?

I keep remembering all the Republican media in 2004 telling us that Ohio was going to determine everything.

[McCamy Taylor]

17. Gas is in the wings. They could have broken off and burned leavings parts of the plane

that fell a distance away relatively unburned.

[peacetalksforall]

26. The pictures had a complete tail piece - no burn marks.

Interesting ... wings broken off ... immediately reminded me of the explanation given for the size of the hole in the Pentagon.

The pictures for the Piper must have been for an accident of a similar size aircraft.

[TexasObserver]

18. Ken Lay, the bogus anthrax perp, this guy ....

Problem people for the Bushes have a way of meeting deaths that really work out for the Bush crime family.

[rambler_american]

44. ...and lest we forget

Former Enron exec dies in apparent suicide

SUGAR LAND, Texas (CNN) -- Former Enron Corp. vice chairman J. Clifford Baxter was found dead in his car in a Houston suburb early Friday, the victim of an apparent suicide, police said.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/01/25/enron.suicide/index.html

[Jambalaya]

60. Things aint so sweet in Sugarland

Sugarland ,Texas happens to be Tom Delay's hometown. Additionally, the Gov.Tech site run by Connell had the top GOP guy,Tom Synhorst as a founding member. You remember him-the S in FLS-DCI who also did the Swiftboating of Kerry,and also is Norm Coleman's best buddies. Check out Sourcewatch and epluribus media for all the connections-and there's LOTS of them.

The L in FLS-DCI is Jeff Laersen who bought all those Palin clothes at Neiman Marcus.Wait,didn't Coleman get a bunch of suits from Neiman's courtesy of Kaeminsky?

[rambler_american]

63. Also, don't forget the attempt on Reagan

but surely the fact that the Hinckley's brother was to have had dinner with Neil Bush the night of the assassination attempt and the fact that the Hinckley family was a major contributor to GHWB's campaign is coincidence. Surely it is. Isn't it?
Just one of those things that make you say HMMMMMM.

[TexasObserver]

98. Yes, he was suicided as soon as the scandal broke.

[The Hope Mobile]

50. . . and the DC Madame

[TexasObserver]

99. Yes, another one who knew too much.

[JackRiddler]

19. Excellent work! k&r. Hope you don't mind...

if I post this wholesale elsewhere.

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewtopic.php?p=238290#238290

[pnwmom]

20. Could it be that the news accounts mixed up

College Park, Maryland and
College Park, Pennsylvania?

[SpiralHawk]

21. The k and the r

release the transcripts

[Freddie Stubbs]

23. Will the Obama administration investigate this or sweep it under the rug?

:shrug:

[tomp]

30. obama should be calling on the justice dept. to investigate...

...thoroughly, and if not satisfied, he should threaten to investigate the justice dept.

but he won't.

[Freddie Stubbs]

37. Why do you beleive that he will not do so?

:shrug:

[lib2DaBone]

171. They will investigate right after they do TWA 800 and Oklahoma City..

..nothing to see here folks... move along.....

[Ysabela]

25. k&r n/t

[Jackpine Radical]

27. And of course one of the most universal observations on the psychopathic

personality is the incomprehension that others have feelings, and the persistent treating of others as if they were objects; the psychopath, in other words, acts

"...almost as if he is unaware of the presence of other people as variables that have to be factored into an equation."

As a psychologist who spent 13 years doing personality assessments of criminals, I am always amazed at how blind most people seem to be to the presence of the psychopaths among them.

[tomp]

31. approx. 4% of the population.

and approx. 99% of politicians.

[acmavm]

29. The simple truth is there are conspiracy theories because there ARE

conspiracies. People who poo-poo this stuff are fools.

I mean, one of the world's most famous conspiracies ended with the words 'Et tu, Brute?'

[sofa king]

32. I keep saying this, and I'll say it again:

We had better be hoping that Connell's death was an accident. If it was an accident, there's a chance he died before he had a chance to erase all of Karl Rove's emails, before he had a chance to hide the election thefts in Florida '00, Georgia '02, and Ohio '04, not to mention the myriad other crimes we don't know about yet.

If, on the other hand, he finished up early so that he could spend Christmas counting his money, and delivered his final report to his bosses in Washington, then yeah, we can pretty much assume he was murdered like half a dozen other Bush Administration lackeys are going to be murdered in the next few weeks.

Don't believe me? Just wait. There are people in the Departments of State, Defense, Treasury, and Interior who are more valuable to the Bush Administration dead than alive. Susan Ralston had better be careful, too, as well as innocent bystanders flying from Washington. This being a continuation of the Nixon Administration, travelers would do well to recall UA Flight 553, which conveniently went down with a number of notable Watergate figures in December, 1972.

[jbfam4]

39. I remember it well

The local TV news in California announced the plane crashed into a home on 3722 West 70th Street....that was the address of my Mother-in-law,brother-in-law and sister-in-law. The correct address was 3722 West 70th PLACE...one block away.

[Tab]

55. I'd be curious to see a list made

of "potentials", and then see who makes it to this time next year. Not that I wish ill on anyone, but if we formally track it, we might be surprised and/or have some information to work from.

I'll bet the ratio is higher than the normal mortality rate.

[sofa king]

144. I think I can guess part of the profile.

A lot of the Executive branch was run by moles, Reagan- and Bush- era civil servants who found their way to the top because the Bush Administration would simply refuse to name individuals who could pass Senate approval (but plenty of bad ones, like David Safavian, were approved). So the top positions became vacant and the office was run by "acting" sleepers. The example I know best is the Bureau of Indian Affairs. I'd be surprised if the office of Assistant Secretary for Indian Affairs has been filled for a full four of the past eight years. I know similar things were being done in Interior's Office of Insular Affairs and I suspect everywhere else they could get away with it.

Those folks may be personally loyal to the President now, but the President probably doesn't hold a lot of loyalty to them, so I'd expect those folks would be the first to be sent up as warnings to others.

I was further thinking that we could probably identify when various offices have been sanitized by the modestly important government servants who die in the next month. I wonder if anyone has looked at other government employee obituaries going back to say, November?

[stubtoe]

34. Most excellent work, McCamy.

This is looking increasingly like a combination of a convenient political hit AND a warning to others to stay quiet.

Desperation in the last days of the Administration, perhaps, is causing them to get sloppy and/or overtly menacing.

[Raksha]

51. That was my thought too...it's so damned obvious

it had to be intended at least partly as a warning to other potential witnesses.

Re This is looking increasingly like a combination of a convenient political hit AND a warning to others to stay quiet.

Desperation in the last days of the Administration, perhaps, is causing them to get sloppy and/or overtly menacing.

I'll go with the "overtly menacing" option. It reminds me of that famous horse head in the bed...ya know?

[xchrom]

36. recommend

[bottomtheweaver]

38. Rove doesn't have that kind of power and never has.

Cheney doesn't either. The guy yanking everyone's chain is the psycho on the trike, and yes, that's part of the deception. Junior would love to get off scot free for his many, many crimes by having the general public, led by the whore press, point the finger at flunkies like Rice, Rove and Rummy. But the fact is that the President alone has authority over the intelligence apparatus responsible for spying and dirty tricks, and if you think I'm kidding what do you think half the legislation he's blackmailed Congress into passing has done? That's right, given the "unitary president" even more power.

[Lerkfish]

40. um..yeah, cheney doesn't have that kind of power......

:eyes:

[bottomtheweaver]

43. Cheney is powerful, yes. So was Rummy.

And then Rummy was gone. Cheney would go away too if he said or did anything to cross his little buddy, who it appears is quite the obsessive micromanager, and controls all the levers of executive power, including the NSA, CIA, FBI etc. Cheney is just a tool like the rest of them.

[RC]

140. Hogwash! bu$h may be a obsessive micromanager, but he doesn't have

the brain power to hold it all together. Cheney & Rummy have had quite a lot to do with what's been going on for the last 8 years or so. It was Cheney that exposed Valerie Plame and blinded the CIA in the Middle East.

[bottomtheweaver]

149. Cheney is a fall guy. So were Rummy, Brownie, Rove, Aschroft, Connell,

and a long list of others. Cheney is smart, and he has lots of influence and authority within his orbit, but he simply doesn't have the delegated and appropriated powers of the executive that Junior obsessively possesses. The clueless Christian cowboy act is a just cover and a pretty lame one at that.

[RC]

164. You are assuming these criminals are following the proper chain of command rules

No they are not. They make their own as they go.

[bottomtheweaver]

166. Yes, they make up their own rules, but they're not stupid.

They have to maintain at least a flimsy veneer of legality, and by whatever rules they're following, the President has all the power. The veep has whatever authority the President delegates to him. Why people think Junior is some kind of victim of his evil underlings is completely beyond me. He's the US president and long as he is, he's by far the most powerful individual in the world, and that's a simple fact.

[libertypirate]

174. No Bush is no victum, he knows by not knowing certian details he

can evade responsibility for actions that were taken out of context from what he really meant.

[bottomtheweaver]

181. Who do you think is vindictive enough to order Pat Tillman whacked?

Cheney? Rove? They could care less. Rummy wouldn't harm a flea without authorization. Junior doesn't have to know the details, but he has to authorize the operations--all of them.

[creeksneakers2]

41. I'm afraid you hiked a long distance past the simple explanation

for the running out of gas. When Larisa Alexandrovna first reported on the incident, she incorrectly said the plane was running out of gas. Larisa also said the plane was on the way to Washington, which it wasn't.

Larisa explained that she had a source at the airport because she was tracking Mr. Connell's movements before the crash. She says the source gave her bad information. Larisa then retracted the reports of running out of gas and the trip to Washington.

There never was any official attempt to blame running out of gas for the plane crash. Since there was no report, there was no conspiracy, at least as far as the gas vignette.

You aren't the only one to make this mistake. The idea that authorities tried to make it look like a fuel problem has spread around the net now, and its imposssible to stop it.

[anigbrowl]

95. Exactly right. The OP and many others attach too much importance to a casual remark.

'running out of fuel' was never offered as The Official Explanation, not least or the simple reason that it was never proposed by any officials in a press release or anything else. Now if you worked at the airport and were asked, it wouldn't be that remarkable to advance it as a possibility, because such possibilities do occur. Kinda like when you come on an accident and say 'what happened' and someone says 'I guess one of those cars skidded or had a brake problem...'. It's just random, reactive speculation, an educated guess at what MIGHT have happened.

Extrapolating a conspiracy from that is stupid.

[Truth Teller]

42. This is part of what's so damaging about the Connell conspiracy nonsense

Here we have a bright person, who knows how to do research, wasting time on this crap. There are a million other ways this talent and time could have been better used for progressive causes.

[KoKo]

49. First time I've seen 41 & 42 so close on a post. Usually there's a degree of separation...

for the skeptical.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lala_rawraw]

127. whatever you are part of...

it has no basis in reality or in honesty. your almost adorable in your inability to see how transparent you are. dude, seriously, don't you have a life?

[Name removed]

125. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Prepostericity]

64. I think his plane crashed

I think he was a rightwinger who was never threatened by Karl Rove. I think there is astroturfing going on with the extra tinfoil sauce. I also believe that the elections can be proven to have been stolen without resorting to tabloid heresay.

[antipode]

70. Ah, but you have forgotten the Prime directive of conspiracy theories:

The more outrageous and seemingly impossible a scenario appears, the more likely it is to be absolutely true.
It's a kind of inverse Occam's Razor ...

[Prepostericity]

72. It's like the Dan Rather thing

How best to make election fraud look like a conspiracy theory? Taint it on the periphery. Establish outlets like BradBlog and Raw Story. Have them bankrolled by a convicted bomber caught with Dept. of Defense insignia. Then bring in an elaborate array of sock puppets. Shout down anyone who makes sense.

Don't get me wrong. There is also something bad with closed-minded debunkers who seem to be receiving a paycheck to post about kooks. It just feels so damn scripted.

Again, where is the proof that Connell was ever threatened? It comes down to that old phrase, consider the source.

A lot of the internet seems scripted. Remember when Jason Leopold made up that thing about Bush and Cheney being indicted? He used to write for Raw Story. It's like these are strawmen for progressivism.

Go to the search engines and seek out all you can on this story. Eventually one sees that it all leads back to the same insular group of affiliated people who adore the Superway Bomber. Now that's the story. How certain individuals seem hell bent on making electoral fraud sound like a creature double feature, a fictional work on paranoia. The status quo of blood on American hands continues. The internet is rigged.

Brett Coleman Kimberlin and his shady past is the story here. Velvet Revolution my ass. More like cointelpro.

[antipode]

86. Ah, Jason and his "48 business hours"...I was reading DU back then and that was a real

brouhaha. (Maybe it was 24, not 48? Doesn't matter, really)

Anyhow, there's not really any difference between a dedicated tinfoiler who does it for free and a whore who does it for a pittance. :D
(now let's see how long it takes for one of the TRVE BELIEVERS to label me a freeper...)

[Name removed]

117. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[emlev]

48. About the Pennsylvania/Maryland question

I wondered that, too. I remember reports saying the plane was coming from Pennsylvania, though not specifically that it had originated there. Maybe they said that because he had flown over Pennsylvania and came into Ohio from there?

[lala_rawraw]

78. I have said he came from DC

by why of the MD College Park. this guy is a sockpuppet for creakersneakers. he is lying

[yardwork]

52. Thank you for staying on top of this and reporting it here. k&r

[nikto]

56. WRONGFUL DEATH...

It's a slam-dunk if there ever were one.
















He was murdered, and NOT A DAMN THING WILL BE DONE ABOUT IT.

Don't you just love living in Chile?

[nikto]

58. At least 1 thing has been established...

STEALING ELECTIONS IS A THANKLESS JOB----The Left will want to
try and convict you for it.

AND, the rightwing Masters who desired it, will KILL YOU after you do it,
to keep you from spilling any beans.


But gee, I wonder if O'Connell saved any babies, at least?

What a DUMB-ASS (and dead) sucker he turned out to be, just for his religious-based desire
to "save babies".

Only problem was,
HE WAS THE ONE WHO GOT ABORTED!!

[nikto]

59. At least 1 thing has been established...

STEALING ELECTIONS IS A THANKLESS JOB----The Left will want to
try and convict you for it.

AND, the rightwing Masters who desired it, will KILL YOU after you do it,
to keep you from spilling any beans.


But gee, I wonder if poor Connell saved any babies, at least?

What a pathetic, DUMB-ASS (and dead) sucker he turned out to be,
just for his religious-based desire
to "save babies" and feel righteous.

Only problem was,
HE WAS THE ONE WHO GOT ABORTED!!




The Korporate Right has an endless supply of these suckers
to keep attacking America with, from within.

[P210pilot]

65. icing was probable cause

Weather at the time of the crash.

Fri Dec 19 23:09:00 2008 1229728140 300 10 KT BR 01 -1 1009 Cloudy 2.5 mi 400 ft 86 -4
Fri Dec 19 23:15:00 2008 1229728500 290 11 KT BR 01 -1 1009 Cloudy 1.5 mi 400 ft 86 -4
Fri Dec 19 23:51:00 2008 1229730660 320 13 KT BR 0.6 -1.1 1011.6 Cloudy 3 mi

BR= light rain, Temp.= -1C., Visibility= 1.5-2.5 miles, ceiling= 400'

This is a recipe for ice!!!

Saratoga has limited ice protection and is not approved for flight in icing conditions. It will be some time for the report to come out, but I expect the NTSB already has this one nailed.

On another note.
Saratoga is the same airplane JFK Jr. was flying. In that instance had he activated the very capable auto pilot, he would probably be with us today.

[TexasObserver]

66. Apparently, you're ignorant of the Bush history for "accidents" involving people who know too much

I suggest you stop trying to rationalize this crash and accept that the guy was murdered because he helped the Bushes steal elections and hide their nefarious emails about such things as illegally using US Attorneys to go after Democratic governors and groups.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lala_rawraw]

82. Icing has been ruled out by FAA, just fyi

[Name removed]

96. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[anigbrowl]

102. Source source for this?

Without a source, it's just rumor, and rumors aren't worth discussing.

[sgsmith]

104. The FAA doesn't rule out accident causes.

The NTSB is in charge of investigating aircraft accidents, and they come out with a probable cause of the accident. If the accident is significant enough, the NTSB will recommend to the FAA that rules be changed, that inspection schedules be modified, that parts be removed from the spares supply, or that certain types of maintenance be performed. It's up to the FAA to decide if the proposal is implmented.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Prepostericity]

76. All roads lead to Larisa Alexandrovna and the Superway Bomber

If you search engine for Connell and running out of gas, that aspect seems to always lead back to the "investigative journalist."

She says Connell was a source of hers and was getting ready to talk.

But consider the source! Would you trust Jason Leopold on anything? She has co-written articles with him. He worked for Raw Story, too.

The Velvet Revolution is another "source" showing up saying that Connell was threatened by Karl Rove. But if one looks into that place, they will find that one of its co-founders has beyond a shady past.

Oh yes, there is also Cliff Arnebeck as a source. But guess what. He is the attorney for the Velvet Revolution!

Then check out how on this DU thread, Larisa Alexandrovna outright lied about Brett Coleman Kimberlin.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2358825


Then there is this:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/lasteelshoworg/blog/2008/01/24/The-LA-Steel-Show


Date / Time: 1/23/2008 8:00 PM
The L.A. Steel Show

Politically Independent talk show , activism, alternative news,and interviews with authors, activists, politicians and researchers. Tonight we interview Brett Kimberlin,the man behind e-voting investigations of BradBlog.com and the investigative internet journal Raw Story.com. Brett is a musician and was recently waterboarded for a music video. Interview is pre recorded.



And I recently stumbled across this:

http://www.voiceofarizona.com/Exile_Extreme_Activism-5031-2-3474.htm

{on Brett Kimberlin- a convicted bomber and drug smuggler}
"About his background. He is the co-founder of Velvet Revolution with Brad Friedman (of Bradblog.com) and Raw Story, an online news zine."


All these sources saying that Connell was threatened by Karl Rove are coming from the same small group of people.

Perhaps "Larisa Alexandrovna" and BradBlog are the left's version of Alex Jones?

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Prepostericity]

80. Where's your proof?

I'm Creakersneaker's sock puppet? Is your source for this the same one who told you Connell ran out of gas?

I'm lying? How did you not outright lie on that old thread on Brett Kimberlin, a convicted bomber and drug smuggler whose activities led to someone's death? You made him out to be some kind of political prisoner. A bunch of posters came up with evidence, yet you kept on lying saying the Superway Bomber had been exonerated. Why should anyone believe anything you say?

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Prepostericity]

85. What?

The title of what post of mine is the exact sentence from what CreakerSneaker post? Perhaps you could explain this with exact links? I have provided exact proof showing your propensity to outright lie. So who is the real troll here?

[lala_rawraw]

87. you have?

really? you mean the links to your own pre-tombstoned threads? show me... i need a good entertaining conspiracy theory of how me, a terrorist (as you say), and a whole slew of people, got together to fool everyone on DU about allegations relating to the white house missing emails and Connell and election fraud. by all means, hon, put a bow on it too.

[Prepostericity]

112. "Larisa Alexandrovna" is lala_rawraw

Huh? So I get no links to what allegedly proves I am CreekSneaker, but instead, now I am alleged to be posting links to my own pre-tombstoned threads? I don't even know what that means. Is this person making any sense at all?

I never called "Alexandrovna" a terrorist, although I did notice a few days ago a blogpost she made at Huffington which appeared to be borderline inciting of violence. Personally, I recommend non-violent civil disobedience as the only option.

The ex-domestic terrorist is Brett Kimberlin, the one Alexandrovna says is an ex-political prisoner who was exonerated of his CRAZY past.

[lala_rawraw]

161. everyone knows

what my profile name is... glad you could join the inn crowd of the more astute hon...

[Prepostericity]

162. But Newbies and Fence sitters don't

:hi:

[Name removed]

89. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TexasObserver]

100. Isn't it interesting the number of posters suddenly showing up to argue for the Bushes?!

The stench of GOP operatives permeates this thread.

[anigbrowl]

105. Nobody's arguing for the Bushes. We're arguing for sanity

Jumping to conclusions without adequate evidence is stupid. there have been several threads with extensive discussion from pilots and so forth which were a hell of a lot more informative than this, and acknowledged the possibility of foul play without jumping off the depend and mistaking innuendo for proof.

I suggest you take your authoritarian BS elsewhere. A concernw ith establishing facts and validating sources does not make people 'GOP operatives'.

[antipode]

107. The only real stench here is that of stupidity.

It overpowers the olfactory senses.

[lala_rawraw]

121. Nope... we are all wondering

why you are so emotionally involved AA... why? we really want to know what makes that ticking sound in your head. what the funny part is, is that you don't realize that you don't have the talent to pull this off... you are too obvious. seriously, do yourself a favor, get a different job.

[lala_rawraw]

160. and launch swift-boats... why yes it is

amazing, is it not?

[creeksneakers2]

120. I am Creeksneakers2's sock puppet

I have posted a great deal of information to debunk this conspiracy theory on this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4715001

So far, Larisa hasn't answered questions or even debated the merits. She just attacks me and tries to collect confederates to send alerts on me and frustrate my attempt to share my opinions.

[lala_rawraw]

134. not a single one...

really, you sure?

[lala_rawraw]

79. One more thing you

psychotic lying pond-scum.

Brad Blog and VontersUnite, and hundreds of other organizations started Velvet Revalution. Are they all in this conspiracy too, with the so called terrorist? And Raw Story has no affiliation, but for one project we signed on for in which many other news outlets joined in for supporting protection of journalists. Gee, that apparently makes us all part of a plot to spin a tale of election fraud. Raw Story has no affiliation, is not a member of, and is not party to anything Velvet Revolution does. Being invited to participate in one project related to journalism does not make us life-long members of any organization. In any case, there are many groups who are members of Velvet Revolution, many groups who are well respected, like PDA, for example. You are smearing many people and the question is why?

[Prepostericity]

84. You have zero credibility and are trying to obfuscate that fact

Show us proof that Brett Coleman Kimberlin was exonerated for those heinous activities, or else you are toast for credibility.

So who other than yourself, Kimberlin, and Arnebeck can verify that Connell was threatened by Karl Rove? And even then, using anonymous tipsters' heresay means squat.

Now you are saying that Connell was a source of yours, and that he told you he was ready to spill the beans. Yeah, that's the ticket! Ha!

Brett Kimberlin was found with Department of Defense insignia. You have said he was exonerated and had been a political prisoner. You evoking authority right here against me is now a powerless activity to try to hide how you are an outright liar as PROVEN in that DU thread I linked to.

You lied. You are a proven liar. That means that you have zero credibility.

Explain how you didn't lie in this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2358825

Why should liars like yourself be taken seriously?

To any DU moderators, "Larisa Alexandrovna" is a public figure at the heart of this Mike Connell story. Please look at the thread I have linked to. I have no malice towards this person, as I do not know her. But I do not like liars. I do not like so-called journalists making internet lefties look like tin-foil wearing, unsubstantiated sheep.

Larisa Alexandrovna isn't even her real name, that's why it was put in quotes. She outright lied in that thread I provided. She doesn't want anyone to reflect on how a convicted bomber who had DoD insignia could be so influential as regards to BradBlog, Velvet Revolution, AND Raw Story. Larisa lied in that thread saying he had been exonerated and got a huge settlement.

Larisa can attack an anonymous poster like myself, but she will never be able to cover up the fact that something stinks bad about her reporting.

The DU link without doubt proves that "Larisa Alexandrovna" is a bold-faced liar.

[lala_rawraw]

90. i have 0 credibility according

to a nameless newbie poster like you? probably. but you are sure using a lot of energy trying to discredit someone with 0 credibility, as you say. does that not strike you as odd hon? your allegations that Velvet Revolution and Raw Story are in some sort of conspiracy together are idiotic and paranoid and your allegations that we are all in a conspiracy together to lie about election fraud allegations requires that you find the nearest hospital and get some help.

oh, just curious, can you list the member organizations part of the VR? go ahead and cut and paste hon and then tell me how all of these people are involved. now i must go take my 0 credibility butt to the shower so i can get ready to hang out with my other 0 credibility friends (and shsss, don't tell anyone, but the unibomber and I are going to meet for a tryst at Area 51)

[antipode]

91. Unabomber, not unibomber.

:eyes:

[lala_rawraw]

92. you would know, your acid trip, not mine

[Name removed]

93. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Prepostericity]

113. Why are you changing the subject?

Why did you lie about Kimberlin?

What did Mike Connell exactly say to you? :hi:

[lala_rawraw]

119. not remotely changing the subject...

you are using three identities to change the subject away from Connell's crash and the allegations to attacking me. You are the following trolls:

Antipode
antipode
creeksneakers2

That is the subject, the only subject that you and me are going to be talking about hon. The rest is the garbage from your checkbook AA... don't feel much guilt about Andy do you? how terribly sad for you.

[Prepostericity]

142. This feels spooky

What did Mike Connell tell you?

Why did you outright lie about Brett Kimberlin of Velvet Revolution?

Why should anyone believe anything you write, based on your outrageous lies?

How does alluding to some scripted nonsense from a few years back answer legitemate questions?

By the way, I am not AnonymousArmy. I never post as more than one person on any forum. Sugar, you can keep on with this frazzled, dizzy, lefty act all you like, but the sheer truth is that you have shit the bed. A bunch of folks will read through that thread on Kimberlin and see that you are an outright liar like Jason Leopold. They will start to connect the dots that a few of us have refused to remain hidden.

This is right woos left America. This is what is referred to as astroturfing.

No, I am not AA, but I have read and studied all about that Andy Stephenson nonsense, and it is fair to say that you are now officially on the road to Tom Flocco status. Andy used to write for Tom Flocco. He used to have Mike Vreeland as a source. LOL!!!!! Didja know that, sweetie?

Carry on!

[lala_rawraw]

145. that is strange... I never called you anonymous army...

thanks for letting me know. trashing Andy is what you do best... the question is why? you paid or are you just pond scum?

[Prepostericity]

148. She calls me AA but denies calling me AnonymousArmy?

Most of the posts that have been deleted have been made by this "Alexandrovna" person. But thank God for screenshots and saving whole web pages. The truth will have to emerge elsewhere about the habitual lying and mind games. Most of the posts deleted were of her ranting about how myself, Antipode, CreekSneakers2, and even another person are all the same somebody who had the username AnonymousArmy. She kept mixing up posts and usernames. She berated Creek for things I posted. She also twisted around what I wrote. For example, I never called her a terrorist. But it will all come out in the wash. It already has. It's just the truth is to be found in pockets of awareness.

It was to this person's benefit to have those posts deleted. She got very lucky, or perhaps she knew the posts would be deleted, and she is just gaming the DU rules. However, the screenshots do not lie, and they will simply have to emerge elsewhere.

It's quite odd how Larisa predicted that subthreads would be tombstoned.





posted by Larisa Alexandrovna to me:

"not remotely changing the subject...

you are using three identities to change the subject away from Connell's crash and the allegations to attacking me. You are the following trolls:

Antipode
antipode
creeksneakers2

That is the subject, the only subject that you and me are going to be talking about hon. The rest is the garbage from your checkbook AA... don't feel much guilt about Andy do you? how terribly sad for you."






How come "Larisa Alexandrovna" isn't giving the details of what she says Connell told her? Would that be because she made that up, just like she continues to lie about Brett Kimberlin?

Political Prisoner, my ass, you outright liar!

[lala_rawraw]

151. so where is the antipode account?

AA could mean anything... how did you come up with the full explanation? Yes, my comments that were deleted were done so because I was very rude - frustrated, but that is no excuse. They should have been deleted.

[Prepostericity]

154. My reply

"so where is the antipode account?"


Uhm, the moderator said he was banned but didn't explain why. My opinion is that Antipode was a bit too aggressive for a new poster. Perhaps if he had provided proof for his posts like I have, he wouldn't have been banned. But that is none of my business according to DU rules.




"AA could mean anything... how did you come up with the full explanation?"



As I said in another post, I know a lot about AnonymousArmy and have studied the electoral integrity forum archives. You have a history concerning that guy in that you have pegged him as being from the Department of Defense and/or Diebold. But unlike yourself, I am not interested in any insider lingo. I appreciate that there are going to be newbie and fence-sitter lurkers who have enough already to be scratching their heads about. It was clear as day who you were referring to for anyone who has followed this type of stuff over the years. I was a late bloomer. I only came across this the last year. Before then, I was actually a big supporter of BradBlog and RawStory, often times linking to the domains.

I came up with the full explanation, because I am one very, clever focker.



"Yes, my comments that were deleted were done so because I was very rude - frustrated, but that is no excuse. They should have been deleted."

Hey, keep it to yourself what Connell allegedly told you, that is your call. But you have been thoroughly busted as regards to outright lying about Brett Kimberlin. Seeing that Velvet Revolution is in the middle of the Connell story, I believe it is important for folks to know how you lied about him. This transcends whomever this AnonymousArmy really is. By the way, for what it's worth, I too believe that Antipode was AA.

[Prepostericity]

156. More proof I am clever

I think this will explain why Antipode is no longer here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3658926


So I was right again. He was too anti-social for a newbie username.

You gonna retract calling me CreekSneakers? What did Connell say to you?

Regards,

Prepostericity

[TexasObserver]

103. Wrong. She has the credibility. You don't.

[antipode]

108. How ironic. Your sig line correctly identifies Rick Warren as a bigot

yet according to your 'logic' he has copious credibility...certainly more than you (unless you have a large generous congregation and millions of book sales)...and you claim props for an anonymous poster because you like what she has to say.

Talk about a rat-dream world...
:eyes:

[lala_rawraw]

114. wow, that makes 2 DUrs

you have called out as having 0 credibility...you are on your own personal jihad and using three profiles to wage it, cool

[creeksneakers2]

122. She has no credibility with me

until she starts to answer questions about the spectacular claim that Connell confided in her that he was about to tell all.

[Name removed]

128. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[creeksneakers2]

132. Merry Christmas

From what I've learned, I'm a three sock puppet head reincarnation of Bev.

[Ellipsis]

136. Are you? It's been a running theme.... kinda happens every once and a while.

You do have a mild obsession of getting down on Larisa.


What's really your beef?

[creeksneakers2]

138. I have nothing against Larisa

In fact, I'm starting to worry about her.

[Name removed]

139. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lala_rawraw]

158. what the hell does that mean?

[Name removed]

133. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ellipsis]

126. Kooky!!! I've missed you.

lend me your comb bu-uhddy.



Merry christmas!

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

94. Having dealt professionally with Mr. Leopold...

And knowing Ms. Alexandrovna, your false equivalency is absurd in extremis.

Now piss off back to Michelle and tell her what a good boy you have been and she will throw you a doggie biscuit, please.

[antipode]

97. Would you be offended if one were to wonder why you defend liars?

...?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

101. And which liar would that be...

creek?

[antipode]

106. Oh, shit, I don't know ;... how about the lying mother Leopold for starters?

Jeezusfuckingchrist...

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

109. Who is defending Leopold?

I think you need a little work on reading comprehension. Leopold, being a serial fabulist and always looking for the "big one" got played like a Strad or a Strat. But then again, looking at Cheney's admission of the last couple of days and considering the terrible state of the DoJ, overall, and then adding in what was happening with the firing of Federal Prosecutors, I don't think he was entirely lying. Just duped. Duped good. Real good.

But comparing Lala to Leopold? Feh. Not even close.

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

111. I suppose you are entitled to that opinion.

That said, one thing that I have learned is that when a DU'er is on a story, and Michelle, Little Green Snotballs, Red State and others put out the call on that story, our ranks swell with people who are attacking the messenger, by any means at their disposal.

I am sure that this is entirely coincidental and apropos of nothing.

And damn, she was sure lying good in that Siegelman thing, huh? So good that the guy got out of jail. That there is some fine, bodacious lying, huh creek?

[creeksneakers2]

124. I never said she lied about Siegelman

Other than watching 60 Minutes, I haven't followed that story.

I haven't directly called Larisa a liar. I did say its common for liars to make sensational claims and not back them up. That's about as close as I've come. I think her story is suspect, as I hope anyone could see that even if it were true its very far fetched.

[lala_rawraw]

131. you has you

are you blind? scroll up to your own words for crying out loud. i backed up my claims... i gave you links to the court documents and you still won't retract that lie. i asked you to go look at Velvet Revolution member list, and you won't retract that lie either. and you just lied in this post by claiming you did not call me a liar... you can think whatever you want, but to say it is suspect because I lied when I gave you the links to the court documents is simply more bs... you know you are lying and you have been caught over and over.

need i remind you of the reason you thought i was lying before... per your very strong mothership information? you called me out because I said he came from DC and you said you did not believe the rest because he came from PA... after that proved out to be not true and what I said did prove to be true, you simply found another reason to call me a liar, and not once retracting or apologizing. stop with the "who me?" nonsense. you are lying non-stop.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

146. You really do not know how the nuts and bolts of Journalism works, do you?

Or perhaps you do, and you choose to ignore them. I do. Not only did I spend my time in Ink-Stained Wretch and Perfect Hairdo and Teeth school, in college, I run a news site with another, far more experienced editor than I. A real pro. And we even had a writer named "Jason Leopold" once. The less said about that the better.

Suffice to say, sources are not just manna from the heavens. All too often, they are credible people on the inside, scared, part of the whole affair, reached their point of sufficiency in the matter and jumpier than a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs. They will tell you things. Some things you can use, some things you cannot. All are good. Why is that? Because some things are so good that you will burn the source, leading the Bad Guys back to the source. Sometimes the source insists that some things cannot be used, yet or never. You honor that, because you don't want to burn the source. Sometimes they talk in near-incomprehensible metaphors, a Gordian Knot of words you have to untie and that leaves you with a lot of holes to piece into the puzzle.

Moral of the story: You NEVER burn the source. That and you always try for independent confirmation from other stories. If you don't have that, you don't run with that part of the story, even if everything you have gotten from that one source has checked out to date. You never hang a story on only one source.

Now, do try to keep up and do try to not cleverly dance about the "liar" appelation you have been throwing around here, creek. That raises hackles around here and you are gonna earn enmity and find this a far-less welcoming clime.

[creeksneakers2]

167. Connnell is no longer a confidential source

On her own, she announced that Connell was a source of hers. She could answer questions about him now, if she chose.

[Name removed]

169. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

175. You didn't read a word I typed.

You are simply being thick for the sport of it.

[creeksneakers2]

178. What did you say in the deleted post?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

179. Nothing I have said has been deleted.

Sorry to ruin your busy day.

[libertypirate]

172. Sources in this technology world burn themselves before they

are burned by those they tell their story to.

http://narus.com/products/index.html

[lala_rawraw]

116. lmao

wait... now i am also Leopold's source? wow, i get around... nice AA, really cute

[Ellipsis]

129. God rest ye merry, gentlemen

Let nothing you dismay
Remember, Christ, our Saviour
Was born on Christmas day.


Merry Christmas!

[lala_rawraw]

118. cool... the confirmation i needed

we had the same talking points from before, but the Leopold line was missing. it is so easy to trick the fools into showing themselves. thanks for posting to the troll until he identified himself. shall we ask him how he feels about Andy? you think there is guilt there at all?

[creeksneakers2]

123. What did I lie about?

I did get one thing wrong about Arnebeck saying the suit no longer had merit, but Arnebeck did say that the loss of Arnebeck causes serious problems. I don't know what else you might be referring to.

[Name removed]

130. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lala_rawraw]

115. would you be

offended if i wondered why you are using three screen names to have a conversation about a topic you seem to know very little about, but seem to be entirely far too emotionally involved?

[pinto]

141. Just an FYI. Member, antipode, acitve in this thread, has been banned. n/t

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

150. A fitting end...

To sockpuppets. I was wondering when you guys were gonna catch on. Note: there are others out there. May they all enjoy the finest in pizza, delivered piping hot to their keyboard.

[lala_rawraw]

152. let's hope more banning is a coming

[Prepostericity]

153. You can ban usernames, but you can't ban the truth

There is zero proof that I am a sock puppet of CreekSneakers2.

Just because both of us want to know what Larisa alleges Connell said to her doesn't mean we are the same person.

I am not trying to hijack threads. I want Larisa Alexandrovna to cough up what Connell said to her. The longer she waits to divulge such "information", the more likely it is, imho, that Connell never told Larisa anything about being frightened and ready to spill beans.

The other thing is this Velvet Revolution and Brett Kimberlin angle. The reason I have linked more than once to the "uh-oh.... This Guy!!!?" thread is because it cuts to the chase of credibility issues concerning Ms. Alexandrovna. I will provide that link once more here. One can go and see how Alexandrovna made unsubstantiated comments that appear to have been outright lies. If she could lie so blatantly then, why should anything she "reports" now be taken seriously? Brett Kimberlin was never exonerated. He was never unfairly imprisoned for being a domestic terrorist as Alexandrovna continues to allege.

I am not afraid to let the reader decide.



Here she lied about Brett Kimberlin, co-founder with Brad Friedman of Velvet Revolution:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2358825




Here are primary sources proving that Kimberlin was indeed the Superway Bomber. Unless Alexandrovna can prove otherwise, she needs to apologize and recant all of her lies covering up the truth about Brett Kimberlin. Personally, the thing I find most curious about the Superway Bomber is how he reeks of being a modern day form of cointelpro. Impersonating Dept. of Defense? Setting off bombs? And now he is at the heart of the so-called election integrity movement? Cointelpro was about infiltrating peace and social justice groups and corrupting them from within. How better to cover up election fraud than to script it as tinfoil while muddying waters?





http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/805/805.F2d.210.82-1025.83-2341.83-2190.83-2191.html

http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/7/7.F3d.527.92-6084.html






Some excerpts. There's much more at the links and elsewhere. Everyone in real life I have told about this story has been amazed about it. This is the guy who alleged Dan Quayle was buying pot from him. This is the guy who has been bankrolling all this "whistleblower" crap. This is the guy whon waterboarded himself and is seemingly at the top of the food chain for election integrity. If Larisa hadn't so blatantly lied about him being exonerated, I never would have started to wonder if perhaps Alexandrovna is not also part of some modern day form of cointelpro.






Examination of the explosion sites revealed components of the explosive devices. DuPont Tovex 200 high explosive was identified at the sites of Nos. 1, 2, 4, 6, 7 and 8. At No. 3 there was identified a high explosive of the water gel type which could be Tovex. Leg wires from DuPont electrical blasting caps were found at Nos. 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8.

Defendant had been engaged in construction on his land in rural Jackson County, Indiana, and engaged an architect for that work. Certain blasting was decided upon. On May 14, 1975, defendant was present when the architect purchased 86 sticks of Tovex 200 and 50 blasting caps with leg wires. Between 13 and 22 sticks of Tovex were used on defendant's project. Confer, one of defendant's business associates, testified that in July, August, or September, 1975 defendant asked him to help unload a truck. In the process defendant warned Confer about two cardboard boxes of explosives in the trunk......



The affidavit was carefully detailed. Personal observations and information from named officers and others were described. Complete repetition here is unnecessary. Lucas had been called to a printing establishment. He observed defendant wearing clothing with badges and insignia. The insignia was identical to that of the Security Police of the Defense Department. Defendant had in hand a facsimile of the Presidential Seal and other documents, one or more of which he attempted to chew up. He had been at the establishment the day before to have copies of the documents printed. He had been wearing the same clothing. At the printer's instructions, he had returned to give final approval of the layout. Army investigators were also present. They had just previously observed defendant drive the Impala into the parking lot and enter the establishment. The Impala had remained there since defendant's arrest.

Concededly, Agent Lucas did not claim that anyone had observed badges, identification cards, insignia, or facsimiles within the Impala. The documents he had seen in defendant's possession had been in the print shop since the day before. Under the circumstances, however, it seems reasonable to believe that similar badges and documents and related items had been left inside the automobile. We think the magistrate could reasonably find probable cause......



The government produced evidence that defendant purchased and possessed uniforms, badges, and other items related to his impersonation of Defense Department security personnel. He was engaged in this project at the time of his arrest, moments after stepping out of the Impala which he had driven to the scene.

Defendant objected, and argues that the evidence was irrelevant, or at least that its probative value was substantially outweighed by the danger of unfair prejudice.

Other evidence very clearly showed that defendant had driven the Impala in Ohio and Indiana as early as September 13 and as late as September 20. When he took the stand he so testified. A very much disputed issue was whether he had access to the trunk of the vehicle, where the incriminating evidence was found.

The fact that some of the "impersonation" items were also found in the trunk made highly relevant and probative on this issue of access the evidence that defendant purchased and possessed such materials. We are also satisfied that possible unfair prejudice did not outweigh their probative value. Defendant argues that the admission of the impersonation material forced him to offer an explanation. The explanation was that they were to be used to facilitate a marijuana smuggling operation he was carrying on, centered in Texas. Under the circumstances, we do not agree that possible prejudice from his explanation was chargeable to the government, or caused the probative value of this evidence to be outweighed......

[Prepostericity]

180. Oops

It's the Speedway Bomber, not Superway. Sorry for any confusion.

I know it's a tough story to figure out, but I think from memory that the motive for the bombings had something to do with the original Kimberlin murder charge. Maybe he was trying to set off a diversion, to get the DA and whatnot to concentrate on that. I don't remember.

My best guess is that he is a strawman in himself. I see no other explanation for his rise in power. He reminds me of Alex Jones, Jeff Rense, Tom Flocco, Willis Carto, et al. It's like who the hell are these people to be so well known? They represent too much of the internet's image. This is how we still have Joe Scarborough type crap. This is why Lou Dobbs and Dan Abrams only go so far. This is why it turns out Keith Olbermann is a drama player going for the rightwing viewers. My brother is rightwing. He loves Olbermann. Now could you see that maybe there's a reason the internet isn't taken seriously. There's a reason Jason Leopold was mentioned. There is a method to my posts. I am a real person who's been on the internet for about three years. It took a while, but I got into it, am trying to play by rules, have tougher skin than imaginable.

This is the best I've felt about the internet in a long time. For the few here with concerns about this story and about Kimberlin, to be blunt, and for ourselves to be able to get our voices out, I have never felt prouder as a blogger. I've never felt more proud of fellow bloggers thinking their stuff through and trying to be fair and logical.

It's like it isn't hidden what he did. But the details are. It took a few people a bit of persistence to make folks understand that this is not some run of the mill pot dealer. Here in Massachusetts, weed is about to become the equivalent of a speeding ticket. But it's in the details.

If this guy wasn't such a big wig again, it wouldn't matter so much. We live in a violent country. But for real, dig into some of those details. What was up with the original murder charge? Anyone from Indiana with the scoop?

I do not trust Brett Kimberlin one bit and believe he needs to have the full sunlight put on him. He could very well be a freeper. Ever hear of Willis Carto, Mike Rivero, and Alex Jones? This guy is the proverbial internet spook, imho.

[Prepostericity]

155. Do you think....

that someone who accuses others of being a sock puppet should be banned, if there is no proof to the allegations?

[libertypirate]

170. Almost called you a sockpupet...

What I really meant was you're a sockpupet master.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

173. Geez, I dunno...

If it walks like a puppet and talks like a puppet and socks like a puppet...

Oh, and you just want Lala to cough up her sources and content, at your command? BWAHAHAHAHA! To quote a certain Mr. Townsend: "Who the fuck are you?"

I want to be 6'4". darkly handsome, independently wealthy and well-hung, driving a Maybach. That ain't happening either.

[TexasObserver]

143. K&R

[Vinca]

147. Since he hit a vacant house, I think he might have committed suicide. nt

[MajorChode]

165. Just the facts, ma'am

There's so much misinformation I hardly know where to start.

"First, he ran out of gas....That is when they told us it was the weather."

Who is "they"? The NTSB hasn't even released a prelim yet. Nobody officially has told anyone anything. Nothing like building strawmen to burn down.

So what are the facts?

Was Connell an instrument rated pilot?

First, Connell WAS an instrument rated pilot, at least according to the FAA pilot database:
FAA Registry
Name Inquiry Results
MICHAEL LOUIS CONNELL
Rating(s):
PRIVATE PILOT
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE

Connell was flying a Piper Saratoga which is a single engined, 4 seat, retractable gear, light aircraft. Coincidentally this is the exact same model that John-John was flying when he decided to go for a swim, but that is really irrelevant to the facts of this case. I just included it to tickle the fancy of the conspiracy theorists.

The crash was reported to have occurred around 6pm local time in Ohio.

So what was the OFFICIAL weather?

KCAK 192151Z 30017KT 10SM SCT007 BKN011 OVC014 02/00 A2972 RMK AO2 PK
WND 30032/2117 SLP075
KCAK 192251Z 30011KT 9SM BKN005 OVC010 01/M01 A2978 RMK AO2 SLP095
KCAK 192351Z 32013KT 3SM BR OVC003 01/M01 A2984 RMK AO2 SLP116 8/6//

Both of these reports are the METAR weather reports for the Akron airport both before and after the crash (assuming about a 6pm crash time). So what does all that mean? The first report at 4:51pm shows a ceiling of 700' and temperature of 2 degrees C with 10 miles of visibility. The second report at 5:51pm shows a ceiling of 500' and temperature of 1 degrees C and a visibility of 9 miles. The third report at 6:51pm shows a ceiling of 300' and a temperature of 1 degrees C and a visibility of 3 miles.

So what can we tell from this? Well, the conditions at the Akron airport were definitely below visual conditions, which meant any flight landing during this time would be required to be following instrument flight rules. It also shows the conditions were deteriorating fairly rapidly.

There's a few other things important to those who fly light aircraft which can be noted. First, those are hard instrument flying conditions. It's not enough to be instrument rated. You must also be instrument current to comply with FAA regs which requires recent instrument flying experience. This isn't like riding a bike. You must be on top of your game to attempt an approach under those ceilings. It's one thing to blast through the cloud layer at 2,000' and land the aircraft visually from there, it's quite another to not break out of the clouds until 500' or less. That leaves very little room for error, and quite simply even most private instrument rated pilots don't maintain their currency well enough to fly in those conditions.

So what about icing?

The temperature on the ground was very near freezing. Now the standard lapse rate says that for every 1,000' you go up, the temperature drops by 2 degrees C. Simply using this lapse rate, the freezing level would have been less than 1,000' up, or right about where the cloud layer was. Now someone said, well what if there was an inversion layer? Certain that is possible, but this is the exception, rather than the rule. The NTSB will have temperature at altitude data available to them and will be able to tell if there was an inversion. I don't particularly want to look up the historical data to find out, but it is out there. At any rate, Connell would have spend most of his flight at altitude, say around 5000'-6000' (his altitude information was also recorded but I haven't looked that up either). At that altitude, the conditions would most certainly be well below freezing, and that would have cooled the aluminum skin of his aircraft to well below freezing. At some point as Connell descended, he would have entered the clouds. Now what are clouds? They are visible moisture. The 192351Z METAR also shows BR, which is the code for light drizzle. In other words, those clouds had a lot of moisture in them. Imagine flying a super cooled aluminum object through them while that moisture was either at or very near the freezing level.

So does that mean his plane iced up?

Not necessarily. However, one thing is for sure, the conditions were right for icing. Icing conditions are quite often fatal for small aircraft. Large transport planes routinely fly through icing conditions, but this is generally not a problem for them. The reason is because they have sophisticated de-icing equipment on the aircraft, and they spend very little time at lower altitudes where icing conditions are prevalent. Small aircraft are a different story. Most of them have very little de-icing equipment, if any, and because of their slow speeds and low power, they can spend a lot of time in icing layers. Now a few Piper Saratogas do have de-icing equipment, but even assuming he had such a system a smart pilot would NOT have flown in those conditions. That alone raises questions about his pilot decision making skills.

[libertypirate]

168. Conjecture jecture what's your fester.

Rerouting logic and numbing our memories.