If Warren backed a movement seeking to Nullify YOUR marriage.....

[Vanje]

would you happily accept his invocation at the most important inagural of our time?




Prop 8 proponents seek to nullify same-sex marriages (CNN)

(CNN) -- Sponsors of the California ballot measure that banned same-sex marriage are seeking to nullify thousands of marriages between gay and lesbian couples performed after the state Supreme Court ruled them constitutional.

The passage of Proposition 8 left the future of thousands of marriages between same-sex couples unclear.

The sponsors Friday filed responses to three anti-Proposition 8 lawsuits with the state Supreme Court. The briefs also defend Proposition 8 against opponents' legal challenges, including an argument that the amendment needed a constitutional convention to be added to the state's constitution.

"We are confident that the will of the voters and Proposition 8 will ultimately be upheld," said Andrew Pugno, General Counsel for ProtectMarriage.com and the Proposition 8 Legal Defense Fund....

More at http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/19/california.proposition...

[Warpy]

1. I'd have celebrated because mine sucked

but that's just me.

The Mormons are the ones trying to get all legal gay marriages in California annulled.

This is pure evil.

Somebody, please tax that church!

[Johonny]

7. yeah I know a lot of guys stuck with horrible

divorce settlements that would "love it".

[TechBear_Seattle]

2. Obviously, they WOULD be happy

In fact, they would be absolutely delighted to have a chief proponent of the effort to nullify their marriage give Obama's inaugural invocation. To say otherwise would be to admit that Obama made a terrible mistake and would reveal as lies and bigotry their own claims that such things are irrelevant.

[Lerkfish]

3. I think most of us "get it" and are supportive of your right to feel outraged

I"m outraged myself.

however, after that, I'm at a loss as to what to do about it.

[MercutioATC]

4. Oh good! Another Warren thread!

Perspective, people...perspective.

No President can lead half of a country and make any meaningful change. Yes, Warren has said some offensive things, but people like him make up almost half the country. Inclusion is the only way to change that.

He's not making policy decisions, folks...he's reading a 3-minute spell at the beginning of a ceremony.

[Bluenorthwest]

12. People like Warren are a small faction

Unable to elect McCain. And of the McCain voters, there are many millions who don't like Warren, for reasons both good and bad. To pretend he is seen as the leader of half the nation in any sense is outlandish.

[MercutioATC]

35. I didn't say he is the "leader" of half the nation...

...but roughly half of the nation has the same mindset as him.

A nation can't progress with 50% of its citizens not working for change...and that 50% is certainly not going to work for change if they're completely ostracized by the new administration.

[Neecy]

29. evangelicals are barely 20% of the population

[MercutioATC]

36. See response #35 above.

I'm not talking about members of Warren's congregation or even evangelicals in general.

I'm talking about those who would rather blame others and complain than work for change. Hell, that's not only half of the general population, that seems like half of DU these days.

[xchrom]

5. recommend

[grantcart]

6. No I would be pissed-- but I cannot speak for my wife

[sandnsea]

8. He's wrong on a lot of things

Most religious people are. What is the surprise in that?

[Orrex]

9. I'd probably have used his picture as my avatar and claimed that it was satire

Oh, the irony!

[Hydra]

10. I would like to see straight sex be made illegal, if only for a month

Wouldn't affect me since I've been taking care of a sick relative. I think the perspective might change a bit.

[Bluenorthwest]

13. I think they should simply

spend a month living according to the Levitical laws applicable to straight folks, for they are legion. They'd get the picture quick.

[Hydra]

17. Good idea

I was trying to think of something temporary, but I like your idea better.

[Shiver]

15. Eh

Been almost two years, what's another month?

Edit because oral sex doesn't count

[awoke_in_2003]

26. "oral sex doesn't count"

i think if I received a BJ from the heavily chested receptionist at work, my wife would disagree with your assessment.

[Shiver]

27. If you're single, it doesn't count.

:P

[awoke_in_2003]

28. And it might also depend...

on whether you are just giving or are receiving. Receiving definitely counts :)

[immoderate]

11. Who is saying "happily?"

It's a strategy and we will win. Your outrage is part of that strategy. And I hope you keep it up. Obama is playing "inclusion." Warren is being squeezed, and hard.

--IMM

[Truth Teller]

14. Could you expand a bit

and explain more fully how choosing a homophobe bigot is actually not repulsive and wrong, and is actually clever and progressive?

[immoderate]

20. Obama is being "inclusive." That's hard to attack.

Warren is on the defensive. He has been put in the bulls eye. Ignoring him would have accomplished nothing. Obama could not just spontaneously attack him without some backlash. Now, Warren has to deal with charges of prejudice and bigotry every day. Obama has his positions energized by the outrage of his base. Obama has displaced the controversy to the streets and the media. He rides it out above the fray. He did not endorse or accept Warren's views. He has not compromised on anything. There is no downside to this move, providing he is still a "fierce advocate" for gay rights, and I don't see anything to contradict that.

Obama has "put the squeeze" on Warren. That's how I see it.

--IMM

[Truth Teller]

22. Seems both Obama and Warren allies are outraged

Why is it only damaging to Warren?

If you think the people hurt and offended by this are only more energized to work harder for Obama,you are sorely mistaken.

[immoderate]

24. What if he works to overturn DADT and DOMA?

He is not energizing people to work for him; he is setting them up to push him and force him to do the right thing. Roosevelt made a similar challenge to civil rights leaders.

The people are not working for Obama, he is getting them to work for themselves.

--IMM

[LisaM]

23. Obama cannot continue to act as if he is above the fray

I'm sorry, but it's annoying - do something very controversial, refuse to comment on it, and then act as if you're just above it all. I believe he needs to address this.

[immoderate]

25. His comment is he is reaching out.

Hopefully he will address it by overturning DADT and DOMA. Action is what we need, not words. He is stimulating the activism he needs to carry out his agenda. I think he is creating the pressure that will lead to change. His actions have already wounded Warren.

--IMM

[noamnety]

30. For the record - HIS actions haven't wounded Warren.

The actions of a vocal group of activists have hurt Warren.

[immoderate]

31. OK, I'm fine with that.

And where would those activists have voiced their dissent if Obama had ignored Warren?

--IMM

[noamnety]

33. lioness nailed it here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8031298&mesg_id=8031595

[immoderate]

34. Who did he drop bombs on?

He invited a fundy to say a prayer. I'm afraid I don't see the equivalence.

--IMM

[pipi_k]

32. One way I think it's clever

there are probably millions of people out there who don't know that there's a difference between Civil Unions and Marriage...that Civil Unions don't provide all the same rights as Marriage does.

There are probably also millions who don't have an opinion one way or the other.

By bringing Rick Warren and his views into the spotlight, perhaps those people who don't know a whole lot about the issue will be spurred on to do further research...educate themselves...really think about the issue and the implications. Because they'll be sitting there wondering what all the flak is about.

This could lead to even more support in the long run as people with moderate views but not enough time to actually have focused on the issues get to know what it's all about.

Once they see how truly repulsive his attitudes are, these people could then turn into big supporters where they might not have given it much thought before.

Sometimes education and support come in ways we never dreamed of.

[The Doctor.]

16. "Happily"? No. But I haven't seen much in the way of DUers expressing 'happiness'

over this whether they are gay or straight.

[Greyhound]

19. Not many, but even the few is just stunning. n/t

:kick:

[The Doctor.]

21. Well...

Considering that even those very few have gone to great lengths to rationalize their position, indeed, not without some merit, it can hardly be looked at as intentionally vindictive.

There are a few who think that the pick was part of a larger strategy... that doesn't precisely equate to 'happiness' either.

I am neither of the opinion that it was a great strategic choice, or a deliberate insult to the GLBT community. Insensitive perhaps, but certainly, and after Obama stated in no uncertain terms that he disagreed with Warren's stance, not a deliberate slight.

[TahitiNut]

18. It cost me some bucks to have my marriage nullified back in 1970.

It seemed important at the time. :shrug:

That said, I'll repeat: Prop h8 is an abomination and the miscarried-again jihadists seeking to delegitimize those marriages are horribly misguided and hatefully ignorant.

[ZombieHorde]

37. would you happily accept his invocation

No, I would not be happy.

[stillcool]

38. If any one person wishes to do me harm...

I would not want to see that event, and I wouldn't. I don't think I realize...as the privileged often don't, how much my husband and I benefit from our marriage. I think that is the problem, because 'marriage' is so narrowly defined in the minds of many. Kind of like the 'you don't know what you have till it's gone' kind of thing.