This might be me picking a fight with those angry at Obama, but...

[WilliamPitt]

...some Christmas thoughts.

1. My fiancee has Multiple Sclerosis. Two of my friends are diabetic. Stem cell research will begin again under Obama. That may mean huge change for them.

2. A dozen of my friends are out of work. Obama's jobs plan and economic ideas stand a great chance of re-employing them.

3. I don't know any rich people, but I know a lot of middle-class working folks who will be helped by the Obama tax cut plan.

4. Diplomacy will be back in vogue, which will be good news for a lot of US soldiers and a lot more international civilians.

5. Maybe three SCOTUS justices will be stepping down in the next few years. Three new picks will end this Alito/Roberts thing.

So.

Healing sick people.

Employing the jobless.

Tax cuts for working people.

Less war.

Better justics.

Smells like change to me.

Just sayin'.

Marry Christmas, all.

:)

(hit and run, off to do Xmas stuff, sorry)

[leftstreet]

1. Less War? Step away from the eggnog

You do know about Afghanistan, right?

:-(

[WilliamPitt]

4. That's the same war.

*sigh*

[tan guera]

55. No War. Period!

[shadowknows69]

58. Yeah, but escalating it kind of feels like more

[MercutioATC]

13. Gee, I thought we were already there...

...that means that pulling out of Iraq nets us "less war".

[leftstreet]

15. Google>News: "Obama" "Afghanistan" Try it

:eyes:

[MercutioATC]

16. Which of the 29,100 links would you like me to read?

Anything in particular I'm supposed to be getting here?

[leftstreet]

17. keyword: "escalation"

[MercutioATC]

19. Yes. We're going to pull 130K+ troops out of Iraq and put some of them in Afghanistan.

It'll still net us "less war".

[whopis01]

90. If you pull troops out of Iraq and send them there, then it is not "less war" n/t

[madokie]

14. While you should take a drink of the eggnog

might lift your spirits somewhat :hug:

[OffWithTheirHeads]

2. but,but,but, he made a decision I don't agree with!

can we hang him now?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

28. Wouldn't Flaying...

Drawing and Quartering be more, I don't know...festive? Kind of holiday-appropriate?

[ananda]

3. Yeah, a few measures for survival are good..

.. while we continue to lurch forward
to equal rights for all.

[skooooo]

5. One-issues voters...no matter on the left or right...

...are short-sighted in my opinion.

[Andy823]

22. Good point.

I don't agree with everything Obama has done, or plans to do, but the bottom line is that those will be far fewer than the "good" things he plans on doing, and that for me is why I voted for him. Nobody in this world can give "everybody" what they want, it's just impossible. The good he can do far out weighs the things we don't agree with, at least for me.

[ZombieHorde]

54. What if that one issue was slavery?

I am not comparing gay marriage to slavery, I am wondering if there is an issue that would make you a one-issue voter.

For me, pro-slavery stances automatically disqualify someone from getting my vote.

[Touchdown]

59. What good is peace, economic prosperity, and good health to those

who are not allowed to participate in any of it?

[EFerrari]

6. We won't have to worry the whole time he visits another country

that he'll disgrace us by groping heads of state.

lol

[chrisa]

7. Though I detest anybody who is a bigot...

To say, "Oh no... 4 more years of darkness!" is just ridiculous. How could anybody lump Obama into the same group as Bush?

[IsItJustMe]

79. They can and they will. It seems pretty self evident to me.

[babylonsister]

8. But doncha know, Warren is against stem cell research.

That is an actual response I got. :eyes:

Someone also suggested Obama could swing conservative and choose judges of the same ilk. Another response, I kid you not.

Rec'd for the much better possibilities with PE Obama than we've had in 8 years, and Merry Christmas!

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

30. Sis, I am abosolutely certain...

That there are some here who are on a mission. It ain't a good one, either.

[babylonsister]

34. No doubt about that. And

Happy Holidays to you, friend! :hug:

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

38. And the same to you, my dear.

The best of everything to you and yours.

[sutz12]

9. I'm not sure the SCOTUS news is all that great...

IF he gets to select 3 justices, it is likely that he will simply be replacing outgoing liberal judges that have been hanging on just for this situation. It probably won't swing the balance of the court much, just maintain the current status quo. Unfortunately, Bush appointed a couple of conservative younguns that will be around FAR too long.

[druidity33]

23. but actually

our "liberal" justices aren't really that liberal. They often come down on the correct side of a judgement, but ti don't for one second believe that makes them any lefter.... just more willing to follow the law.

:shrug:

[sutz12]

68. By just the nature of the job justices tend to be conservative...

But when it comes down to social justice issues, the differences start to come out. Any more justices that put religion first and we're seriously on the way to theocracy. Hopefully, we can at least maintain some semblance of balance on social justice and civil rights issues. I'd also like some real constitutional scholars, and put a halt to appointing the "strict constructionist" types that always seem to come down supporting the power brokers over the people.

[ProfessorGAC]

86. Strict Constructionism = Narrow Minded

And even worse are the Scalia types who believe in originalism, which makes no sense at all. It requires strict constructionism but based upon the interpretation of what the framers MEANT.

Which means one has to intepret it. But, strict constructionism requires a literal reading.

So, Scalia wants to literally interpret it! Huh?
GAC

[LaydeeBug]

10. that remains to be seen, and even so, it won't stop me from speaking truth to power. nt

[bear425]

11. While all of that is wonderfully possible under an Obama admin

and I'm thrilled about the prospect of this positive change, we can still, some of us, feel left out.

I'm sorry to hear your fiance has MS; it's a very debilitating disease. It's wonderful that you are making a commmitment to her to love, honor and protect her in sickness and in health, etc., as my partner of 23+ years and I have done - but our relationship is not legally recognized, nor do we have the same rights and benefits of marriage as you both will. I wish you both a lifetime of happiness, but please keep in mind that many of our relationships are not legally equal.

"Marry" Christmas to you, too.

[elehhhhna]

12. Marry Christmas? Freud much? LOL

[MadMaddie]

18. WilliamPitt

Thanks for that!

The bottom line is Obama will do more postive things for the country and it's citizens then not.

We will not be happy with everything he does and in that we will become one voice to make those needed changes.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holiday's to all of my DU friends!

[Captain Hilts]

20. Rick Warren opposes stem cell research. nt

[Cha]

41. Who gives a

fuck?

[Captain Hilts]

42. People that support it, such as the OP. nt

[Posteritatis]

69. Er, not really

Warren has zero say in whether stem cell research is going ahead. I couldn't give two shits about what he thinks in that department, since it's gonna happen whether he wants it to or not.

But, of course, he's really the sole arbiter of administration policy for the next four years, so I suppose I must be mistaken.

[ProfessorGAC]

87. I Support It Mookie

I've had MS for >15 years. But, i don't care whether Warren supports it or not. He is an irrelvancy, despite the invocation thing.
GAC

[Pirate Smile]

52. So what? Obama doesn't oppose it.

Why the hell do people now act like Rick Warren = Barack Obama? It is ridiculous.

[dysfunctional press]

72. who gives a flying fucking rat's ass what rick warren opposes anyway?

:eyes:
does rick warren make policy decisions?

LOTS of people need to get over themselves, and get a great big fucking grip on reality already.

[IsItJustMe]

80. I think it is too late for some. Insanity seems to have set in big time.

[asjr]

21. Sounds like a winner to me!

[leftofthedial]

24. Merry Christmas.

Reasonable people disagree reasonably.

I'm really glad at the prospect of America joining the 20th (never mind the 21st) Century. We have fallen FAR behind in stem cell research. Engagement and diplomacy will be good.

I'm less sanguine about employment--we're losing them faster than Obama can create them--and taxes. He's already backing away from his campaign tax proposals.

Here's hoping the "democrats" in Congress don't sabotage SCOTUS replacements.

Merry Christmas!!

[goclark]

25. Thanks for your thoughts

I feel the same way.

:hugs: for your fiancee

One of my best friends has MS and she remains upbeat all the time.
She is a blessing and a gift to all of us.
She is our hero.

[jwirr]

26. Thanks Will, we need to stop looking for everything and count our

blessing - that of course does not mean we should stop fighting for everything we want.

[jonnyblitz]

27. I am forever grateful that not ALL straight white male DUers are

as DISMISSIVE as you. AS IF calling out a powerful politician on something that offends many is going to stop all those things you list from happening, if they are to happen in the first place. :eyes: This incident sure has been an eye-opener.

[ogneopasno]

31. I hear you.

But a lot of people like to agree with this guy. Says a lot.

[JetCityLiberal]

35. Agree

disappointing but not surprising to not see 'Equal rights under the law for EVERYONE" in the OP.

But he gets his.

Thanks for your great efforts here jonnyblitz :patriot:

This has been a very big eye opener.

[IsItJustMe]

83. How well do you know the OP?

[Captain Hilts]

43. The '50s were great if you were white, male and straight. To hell with everybody else!

[shraby]

29. Right on as usual Will!

:thumbsup:

[mopinko]

32. merry christmas to you and yours.

:toast: to the new year(s)
there will be change. people will like most of it when it gets here.

[PurityOfEssence]

33. Where do you get this "less war" crap?

We're going on a great big compensation crusade to Afghanistan to prove we're not wimpy liberals or soft on Islam, or did you miss this incredibly obvious and endlessly repeated puffery?

Expecting more than just slightly better than the reactionary feudalism of the past 28 years is hardly being an ingrate. This binary thinking is nauseating: yes, he's better than McCain, but we shouldn't be meek little serfs and happy that our affairs are being handled somewhat less terribly.

Yay for stem cell research, but until the death-grip of Medicine, Inc. is broken, it doesn't really matter for many people if cures exist that they can't access.

Then there's that religion thing, which is the claxon of tyranny and imbecility; we're going to see more and more and more and more of it.

He won with a sizeable mandate, why is he busily fucking the left and sucking up to the old order? His economic team is like Yogi Bear and his friends guarding the pickinik baskets.

We deserve better and we can get better; that's why many are speaking up. We should.

He and the team should get our benefit of many doubts and loyalty, but they work for us and they're headed in some very wrong directions.

[tan guera]

56. Well said!

We won't have money for anything unless we harness the MIC and stop the killing. "Less war" is ridiculous. To reiterate, No War. No *surge.* And get Gates out of there.

[SammyWinstonJack]

95. !!

:applause:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

36. The "Not as bad" argument?

"A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice." - Thomas Paine

Less war is better than a lot of war. Just like 1 tablespoon of arsenic is better than 2 tablespoons.

[Posteritatis]

70. Way to ignore the other 80% (nt)

[JitterbugPerfume]

37. Merry Christmas Will

sometimes I really miss you around here

[Bucky]

39. Three SCOTUS appointments? Sure: Ginsberg, Stevens, & maybe Souter

Mr Obama's SCOTUS appointment over the next 8 (knock wood) years will only be fingers in the dike. If you'll pardon the word choice. The Obama appointments will not put a dent into the Roberts-Scalia voting majority of reactionary Supreme Court justices. Not one of the Scalia 5 will be stepping down in the next eight years. Bringing the Supreme Court back into alignment with sanity and traditional American values will require Democrats winning at least three and probably four consecutive presidential elections and at some critical point in the 2010s or 2020s holding a 60+ seat majority in the Senate. That, or we could hope that the Republicans wake up and start embracing civil rights again. Ha-ha.



And now a moment of parody:

This might be me picking a fight with those angry at Bush, but...
Posted by BuckiamPitt

1. Right after 9/11 George Bush openly denounced street violence against Muslims and called Islam a religion of peace. Untold numbers of would-be victims of mob violence were spared because the president reminded angry Americans that we needed to embrace tolerance and take the moral high ground.

2. I know a lot of middle-class working folks who got greatly needed tax relief from Bush's tax cuts. Plus a $300 stimulus check to boot!

3. Bush has done something or other about AIDS in Africa


These are all good things. Therefor it is illogical to be angry at Bush on any other topic.

Thank you, I'll be here all week, folks.

[tomp]

74. thank you.

one's stance on obama basically depends on accepting the hype or not.

his embrace of powell told me everything i need to know about him. warren just confirmed it. he is going to be a lousy president.

[s-cubed]

40. Will - thanks for your thoughts.

Sorry to hear about your fiancee - I had not known that.

I appreciate your hopeful thoughts, and won't dump on you for hope. Regardless of one's beliefs, let today be a day of hope, love, charity, friendship, tolerance, and maybe someday, peace on earth.

[xchrom]

44. so in other words -- you can't chew gum and walk at the same time? that's too bad. nt

[Swamp Rat]

45. "Hohoho!! ... Daa chuba tinka!!"

"Mmmm.... Gran sha tacha, on bo publika makaneech pooba jeejee pa poonoo weeteebah!... hahahahaaahh."

[Luminous Animal]

46. Pitt's going to get his...

so shut the fuck up.

[NaturalHigh]

47. Merry Christmas, Will.

Great OP, by the way.

[Zavulon]

48. I'm not mad at Obama myself

(despite my extreme disappointment at seeing Hillary tabbed for SecState), but I'd bet heavily against actually getting that tax cut. For that matter, I doubt that the unemployment rate will drop sharply (Obama is already telling us how long recovery will take, not a good sign) and I don't see him getting us out of Iraq, either.

I know a lot of middle class working folks myself, though, and I'll bet you not one of them gets a tax cut. Not one.

[Warren Stupidity]

62. In my experience what tax cuts came my way were soon offset

by increased FICA taxes. You either had to be fabulously rich or rather poor to see any real change in tax policy.

[Captain Hilts]

63. Warren's world works out great if you're a white man!!!!!!

[Toasterlad]

49. "Might" Be?

Your lame point has been made over and over this past week, articulated both better and worse than you do here. Basically, what you are ALL saying is:

"Obama is going to fix all the more important things, so you gays should stop yelling at him for the good of the country."

Or, to put it another way:

"I got mine, so shut the fuck up"

In a just world, gay people would have the rights that you currently do, and selfish, hypocritical people like you would lose theirs, if only to teach you a much needed lesson.

[roguevalley]

50. Merry Christmas, Will, no matter how much of your list actually

comes to pass. Christmas is about hope.

[roody]

51. I am not angry with Obama. I never gave a penny to his campaign.

I did nothing but vote for him. He didn't even need my vote in California. Many thanks to those of you that did give money and work your butts off. I am glad he won. If not for your fervor for Obama, we might still be facing Republican rule. I understand the anger of those who did so much for Obama, especially the glbt community, but please be content that you got him elected. Your efforts absolutely bent the arc of justice to the light! Nevertheless, protest begins anew Jan. 20. If Obama were not part of the imperialist, capitalist system, he never would have been allowed to win.

[tbyg52]

53. I certainly agree it's an improvement. nt

[Warren Stupidity]

57. Inflammatory headline followed by no actual fight picking.

What a disappointment.

Sure of course we all hope that this administration does actually bring real substantial change. At the same time, when the administration acts like a bunch of unwashed baboons, I intend to point out that they stink.

Obama's ability to deliver on most of your list depends on our Senate leadership's ability to push legislation through the solid republican obstructionists. I suspect that they will not be terribly successful in this endeavor, but I hope I am wrong.

My guess on Iraq is that he won't pull the troops out.

[sellitman]

60. Best of the holidays to you Will.

My son survived a brain tumor and I lost my job in 2008

2009 HAS to get better.

[Joe Fields]

61. I understand how personal problems can color a person's perspective.

Merry Christmas.

[earth mom]

64. Imagine for just one minute that someone told you that you are not allowed to marry your fiancee.

Think about it. Really think about ALL the implications-especially the instant where you have no say and no presence if she has a severe medical emergency.

'Nuff said.

[tomp]

76. pitt doesn't usually think it through.

he's just a democrat.

[annabanana]

65. oh my dear. willem... you DID

choose to draw the specific attention of the anti-Obama posse in your subject line but mercy what a shame.

[MadHound]

66. So an Obama administration can only do five things at a time?

And since your five are conveniently covered, it's OK if he trashes the rest? Hmm, a bit. . .narrow of you.

The Obama administration can indeed multi-task, and they don't need to limit themselves to a narrow set of goals. What the Obama administration needs to do is to stop bending over backwards to reach a small minority of bigoted hateful people who aren't going to listen to him, pay attention to him or vote for him no matter what he does. We have pandered to this small segment of the population for far too long now, and it is time to stop adapting our society to fit their particular world view, but rather open our society to being kind, caring and receptive to all world views.

[Douglas Carpenter]

67. Kick and recommended. Excellent

I never imagined that President Obama will aggressively pursue some issues that I do consider to be extremely important. I never imagined President Obama embraces progressivism to the extent I do.

I do see a strong case that he will address some very important issues and will be a huge improvement.

[eridani]

71. I know that. Warren still sucks purple monkey dicks, though

On other issues where people disagree with Obama, the only way to advance them is by lobbying for them.

[BigBearJohn]

73. Here's a song to sing with the OP

I see that worried look upon your face,
You've got your troubles, I got mine.
She's found somebody else to take your place;
You've got your troubles, I got mine.
I too have lost my love today,
All of my dreams have flown away.
Now just like you I sit and wonder why;
You've got your troubles, I got mine.
You need some sympathy, well so do I,
You've got your troubles, I got mine.
She used to love me, that I know,
And it don't seem so long ago
That we were walking, that we were talking
The way that lovers do.
(music break)
I too have lost my love today,
All of my dreams have flown away.
And so forgive me if I seem unkind,
You've got your troubles, I got mine.
(Counter: And it must seem to you, my friend
That I ain't got no pity for you,
Well, that ain't true,
You see I lost my lost my lost my little girl too

I'd help another place, another time,
You've got your troubles, I got mine

[mmonk]

75. It's not always either/or. One came be angry with him about something

and still support him as president.

[WVRICK13]

77. Good Points

but the war issue is not accurate, escalation in Afghanistan.

I admit Obama was the better choice, but we need to have a voice so he thinks things through. It is not inclusive to knowingly honor a bigot who has been openly hostile to gays (or anyone for that matter). If total inclusion is the point and we include all viewpoints, even those that are hateful and against civil rights then David Duke should have a place at the Inauguration. See what I mean about inclusion?

[lonestarnot]

78. Happy New Year!

Wooooooodamnwhoo! and tell Hairy Bastid too! :toast:

[progressoid]

81. Nazi.

:) :thumbsup:

[greenman3610]

82. right on.

sick of the sniping.

Want to see why we have so few Dem presidents?
Look around.

[acmavm]

84. Oh for crying out loud, this was an uplifting post, trying to maybe point out

that despite all out difficulties, we need to strive to do better, to make our country and our world a better place, to be better ourselves.

[shireen]

85. what is wrong about being angry at Obama?

Why can't we appreciate the changes he will bring AND be angry about the Warren issue? GLBT'ers and their supporters have every right to be mad, and remain mad, and protest loudly about this. But it does not mean we are completely anti-Obama. That would be cutting off the nose to spite the face.

Obama has said he will not be a perfect president. He just proved it by inviting that asshole Warren to participate in the inauguration. It was a dumb dumb thing to do, I'm sure he'll do more things to piss some of us off in the future. But overall, he will do a lot of good. We know that, and we appreciate that. But we're mad, and we're not going to put up with it anymore. Enough already! My GLBT brothers and sisters deserve ALL the rights of citizenship, and I'll stand with them until they have full equality under the law.

[JTFrog]

88. I love how everyone tells the guy who wrote a book about the war that he has no clue what he's

talking about.

Great post Will.

[IsItJustMe]

89. Great post Will. Sad that some of the replies to your post labeled you as selfish, hypocritical ,

dismissive, that you are going to get yours so you don't give a damn about anybody else, and that you are telling people to STFU. Funny thing. I never read any of that in your post.

But hey, look at the bright side of it. No one has called you a homophobe or a biggot yet. YET!!!

You know. It's kind of sad that a person can not come here and make a positive statement about Obama without being attacked.

[WilliamPitt]

91. "No one has called you a homophobe or a biggot"

That was last week.

:shrug:

[IsItJustMe]

92. Know the feeling.

[bigtree]

93. that's why we elected a Democrat - Most all the candidates would have done those

We didn't vote for a surrender, though, on the issues and concerns which most affect each of us. Just remember, the resolution of each of the issues you listed can be compromised by timidity and short-sightedness. It's just not a good strategy to put all of these in front of us as a foil against those who are looking for some action on them. You should understand that the manner in which the administration approaches these issues will determine their outcome. Getting 'angry' at the moves orchestrated by the transition so far is perfectly in line with holding the administration accountable for their promises . . . as we certainly should.

[Better Believe It]

94. So Will, do you think all U.S. troops should be pulled out of Afghanistan or not?

[WilliamPitt]

96. Which answer passes the purity test?

Wait, wait, don't tell me...

I wrote about getting out of Afghanistan in my 2003 book...something about Iraq in my first and third books...hmmm...

I can't remember.

:eyes:

[Better Believe It]

97. I'm not seeking purity Will, just a straight answer to a simple question

I'm sure you are fully capable of defending your position whatever it may be. I just don't know your opinion on withdrawing from Afghanistan since I haven't read your book and don't read most of your posts on this forum.

I think we should withdraw all of our troops out of Afghanistan now. And I don't think my opinion passes some sort of progressive "purity test" which is another way of saying politically correct. I'm not aware of any such tests. I hope you aren't suggesting that the millions of progressives who favor a complete military withdrawl from Iraq and Afghanistan are some sort of sectarian "purists".

Like I said, I haven't read your 2003 book and didn't know you wrote one. What's it called? This would be a good spot for a plug! LOL

So your position on withdrawing all U.S. troops from Afghanistan in 2003 was ____________________

And your position today is ____________________