Posting so I do not lose again, Dean Stanley Fish on how terrorists are not evil

[usregimechange]

"We have not seen the face of evil: we have seen the face of an enemy who comes at us with a full roster of grievances, goals and strategies. If we reduce the enemy to evil, we conjure up a shape-shifting demon, a wild-card moral anarchist beyond our comprehension and therefore beyond the reach of counterstrategies." ~Dean Stanley Fish

If the public wants to be strong on terrorism, it better support policies that are smart on terrorism.

[Teaser]

1. meh

most people have a working definition of evil. And for most people, terrorists meet the criteria established in that working definition.

Now, as an academic exercise, I can point out the multiple flaws, errors, and paralogisms functioning in these working definitions. However, if the political goal is to *do something* (enact a policy, bomb some shit, harsh rhetoric, negotiation) that requires convincement, which requires at least some talking within the terms of the pragmatic definitions most people deploy in the understanding of their world.

In short, Dean Stanley Fish is right, but being right isn't always enough.

[cbc5g]

2. Evil is a religious code word, it's not real

There are mentally fucked up people, but there is no such thing as evil.

[usregimechange]

4. I wish it were that simple.

[cbc5g]

6. How is that simple? Saying something is evil is simple

[davidinalameda]

9. so you're saying that people like Hitler are just fucked up?

there is evil in this world

[wuushew]

11. There is always the syphilis theory

An encounter with a Jewish prostitute in Vienna in 1908 may have given Hitler neuro-syphilis and provided the 'deadly logic and blueprint for the Holocaust' as well as giving him a reason to attempt to eliminate the mentally retarded, according to evidence presented at the Royal College of Psychiatrists.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/74776.php

[davidinalameda]

15. so how do you explain Pol Pot, Idi Amin, etc

did they all have an STD as well?

there's evil in this world

[wuushew]

18. I did not say all reprehensible behavior was organic brain damage

but history is full of such examples. King George III and Caligula are two examples.


Also I didn't say Hitler did have syphilis as a matter of fact. If you read Mein Kampf though it does come off as the kind of prose a lunatic would write.

Was the una-bomber evil or just a nut?

[davidinalameda]

19. reprehensible?

murdering thousands of people goes a bit beyond reprehensible

whether or not you believe evil exists isn't my problem

it's out there so good luck

[wuushew]

21. maybe you are just hung up on the word evil

Do you have a problem using more and longer words? If you actually analyze what is communicated to you you might come to see that any slight is an illusion.
Has reprehensible ever been used as a positive word?

What if I say it is cold outside. Are you going to be insulted that I didn't describe the temperature as freezing? You sound like Bush in a broken loop of "freedom", "merika" and his one or two other words.


You and I know the atrocities that the Third Reich committed so why are you getting indignant like I committed fraud against you?


Don't come to a left leaning website and expect to be free from contrarian and nihilistic criticism.


Thinking in absolutes clouds the mind. Do you believe in the imaginary idea of "sin" as well?

[bertman]

23. Start talking about EVIL, you know sex is gonna pop up in there somewhere.

[cbc5g]

22. Yeah, that's exactly what I am saying

Hitler thought he was doing good, so did a lot of German people. Good and evil are religious imagery words to describe subjective interpretations of someones actions. Sure, there are REALLY shitty people out there but they became that way through upbringing, experience, and a genetic disposition towards violence and dominance.

Any dog owner knows that it's how you raise the dog that will determine whether it's going to be gentle or a fighter. In your world, there are good and evil dogs that just became that way out of nowhere or just chose it somewhere. When did you tell yourself that you wanted to be good? You didn't, you just ARE through your experience, genetics, and upbringing which is I guess experience too.

As the previous poster said, there is no black or white, only gray.

[niceypoo]

25. What about....

[ananda]

3. The question to be answered first is..

.. why is it so easy in this country to
demonize others and succeed in scapegoating
them and projecting our own flaws, faults,
and evils onto them??????????

[Teaser]

5. It is easy *everywhere*

the human mind has a default "demonize" setting, because for a long time it was the socially advantageous thing to do.

When there was no social cost associated with exterminating one's adversaries, demonizing them was an effective way of riling people enough up against them to *get shit done*.

Nowaday's it's maladaptive. We need good workarounds.

[L0oniX]

7. I'll keep saying this ...pull out all of our military bases...

and you will see a huge drop in terrorist activity toward our country. It won't eliminate it though as long as we interfere with other countries. Stop supporting Israel and that will go a long way toward peace with the Arab countries. Stop attacking Hugo Chaves and Castro. Stop the Iran bull shit. Stop encroaching on Russia. Simply ...quit fucking around with other countries.

[Karenina]

13. WHAT FUCKING TERRORIST ACTIVITY TOWARD YOUR COUNTRY???

Most "terrorist activity' is against your AGENTS in other countries. :shrug:

[L0oniX]

16. You try being the innocent teenage boy with the Iraq family that gets bombed...

and see who you think is the real terrorist. If you don't think you'd want to join the terrorists at that point you're living in la la land.

[anonymous171]

14. Pull out of the middle east and they will go back to killing eachother

instead of plotting against America. It's win-win.

[L0oniX]

17. Let them kill each other. We let over 5000 children die every year in this country from neglect.

We should be taking care of our own but instead we shit on the children and the elderly while we go off to kill people in other countries. Americans are asshole hypocrites.

[anonymous171]

20. Agreed. nt

[HysteryDiagnosis]

8. Well we could just hypnotize everyone in the ME and tell them that

everything is beautiful in its own way....

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

I see little, if any, difference between a "terrorist" planting a bomb that kills civilians and a bomber pilot that drops bombs that kill civilians.

Terrorism is a tactic, just as using artillery is a tactic. The aim of both is to "win" conflicts.

Diplomacy is also a tactic. One that is seldom tried in good faith because it demands compromise and forsaking whatever sacred cows are held dear to the opposing sides. Unfortunately, the sacred cows in the Middle East are held in great reverence.

Not to mention a great deal of oil.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

12. Best way to destroy an enemy is to make them your friend

and you do that by helping them out . Greg Mortenson has been doing this for years by building schools for boys and girls in Pakistan and Afghanistan. He provides the money for materials, the locals decide the place and curriculum. His efforts have received the seal of approval from the Grand Council of Ayotollahs in Qom Iran--who, in their ruling, stressed that it was right and good that women receive education.

www.ikat.org

[bertman]

24. Greg had better be real careful or he might lose his head. The Taliban are coming back to town.