remember when Bill Maher got reamed, fired and publicly dumped on (even here)

[leftofthedial]

for suggesting that the 9-11 terrorists were not cowards and showed more courage than a random US serviceman pushing a remote-control button of mass destruction?

How did Maher overcome that? The Dixie Chicks, for example, said far less inflammatory things and still don't get radio play, but Maher has another show (or two), made a movie, is routinely quoted, appears as a guest on talking head shows, etc.

Can someone remind me how that whole scenario unfolded?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. It sure wasn't because Maher had backing from

fundamentalist Christians.

[leftofthedial]

2. I'll take that as an article of faith.

:-|

[Hanse]

3. I think pretty much everybody recognized he had a point.

Yet it was still that hyper-hysteric ban-John Lennon time when any joke that didn't kiss Bush's ass go along with the War on Terror was a no-no.

[tulsakatz]

15. it also had a lot to do with timing.........

...that was right after 9/11!! And everyone had this knee-jerk reaction to anything related to 9/11........

[Hanse]

23. People forget how cowardly the U.S. was at the time.

Not the enlisted soldiers. But the war hawks, people in the Pentagon, military advisers on TV, so called experts in foreign policy.

The general policy for years had been that we shouldn't feed hundreds of thousands of famine victims in Somalia, prevent the murder of millions in eastern europe, or take out terrorist training camps in Afghanistan because an American might get hurt.

[DJ13]

4. Maher isnt better off for that

He went from a major network to a subscription cable channel.

That had to be a substantial hit on his income.

[tomreedtoon]

5. Maher just kept on talking.

Remember, it wasn't massive public outcry that got him fired. It was the overly sensitive execs at ABC. They ran scared, as they and their news division always do.

Maher did standup comedy. He pitched his series "Real Time" to HBO, and got the support of celebrity friends. (At least those who knew what he was saying, not what ABC said he was saying.) Fron that platform he kept going.

Basically, he stuck to his guns. I think he may have had some second thoughts about HOW he said what he said, but he knew that at base principles, he was right and they were wrong.

[leftofthedial]

11. Persistence

and the ultimate triumph of truth?

[tabasco]

12. No, he didn't. He backed down like the gutless twerp he really is.

"Maher ended up apologizing to his viewers (read: the network) by saying that "in no way was I ever intending, because I never think this way, to say that the men and women who defend our nation in uniform are anything but courageous and valiant, and I apologize."

After that he took his mea culpa and went on the road, offering variations of the apology on six nationally syndicated radio talk shows, Fox News' "The O'Reilly Factor," "The Tonight Show with Jay Leno" and other broadcast interviews. Apparently Jerry Springer was on vacation. "

http://www.holtuncensored.com/members/column269.html

[tulsakatz]

17. actually, his apolgy was that the comment was directed toward the govt......

..not the soldiers. But when he originally made the comment, he didn't make that distinction......

[leftofthedial]

21. I remember the apology and the "apology tour"

but in fairness, it didn't seem to slow his criticism.

[RJ Connors]

6. It probably started something like

Bill Maher spoke something that was close to truth and well, people don't like to hear the truth.

Even on this board it has gotten too when you read some of the post they give credibility to Harry Browne's statement that, "When it comes to the two major political parties, there's not a dime worth of difference between the two of them."

[LynnTheDem]

7. One mustn't EVER speak TRUTH!

Bill Maher was 100% correct in his remarks. I'm amazed he wasn't executed for them.

[ellenfl]

8. different audiences?

maher moved to cable and has a lefty audience. i consider country music to be more conservative in terms of adherents. i believe those who condemned the dc saw them as betraying their more conservative audience. iow, they got painted as *gasp* LIBERALS! :eyes: country music radio plays to those conservatives. imo

ellen fl

[tulsakatz]

9. I remember it well..........

...and in fact, I watched the episode of Politically Incorrect at the time he made the statement and in fact, at the time he said it, I agreed with him!!

His comment said that the suicide bombers showed more bravery by being willing to die for their cause instead launching cruise missiles from far away.

But the problem came when his advertisers objected to his comment. The advertisers refused to back him anymore and without the money, there is no show.

The way he got around it was to get a show on HBO. On HBO, there is no advertising, the subscribers pay for the service. So as long as people are willing to pay for the service, there's no problem!

Actually I like listening to him whether it's on his show or as a commentator.

[leftofthedial]

13. so, an affluent form of socialism trumps capitalism.

[tulsakatz]

26. when conservatism dominates the media.......

...as it has done until the emergence of Olbermann and other liberal media....yes!

As is always the case in this country, the more money you have, the more choice you have.

As soon as I heard Maher was going to be on HBO, I subscribed. Now, I don't think I could live without it! Although there are certainly some channels I can live without.....

[mountainvue]

22. Everyone keeps forgetting he had the show on HBO

before the ABC show.

[tulsakatz]

27. no he didn't.....

he did specials from time to time on HBO but he didn't have a regular series until about a year after PI.....

[hlthe2b]

10. HBO is independent and has a history of taking chances...

They aren't beholding to independent advertisers and can be more edgy.

[DefenseLawyer]

33. HBO is owned by Time Warner

While it's true that HBO doesn't have to please advertisers or kowtow to the FCC, I wouldn't go so far as to call it "independent".

[hlthe2b]

35. Relative term--- in comparison to the networks, it is independent.

[walkaway]

14. Bill Maher's audience is a little hipper...

than your average Country Western fan. I'm not saying that the Chicks don't have lots of liberal listeners but the bulk of country station types are red state regressives.

Bill, on the other hand, is on cable. Nuf said.

[leftofthedial]

16. In country, it's not so much the listeners

as it is the executives at the publishers and labels and the ownership of the radio conglomerates. They decide what gets recorded and played and marketed. They are overwhelmingly Bush "Pioneer" types.

...although the audience and the artists also do tend toward southern redneck ignorant "conservatism."

[navarth]

18. I just wanna know when Real Time starts back up. I miss it!!!

One of the most watchable shows on TV, along with Bill Moyer's Journal, Countdown, and Rachel.

[leftofthedial]

19. I haven't seen Maher since he moved to HBO.

I've usually only been able to afford basic cable. :-(

[navarth]

24. that's a shame...but don't forget youtube

His shows get posted there regularly, like the day after.

[leftofthedial]

25. thanks for the reminder.

I'll check 'em out.

[tulsakatz]

31. there is some video on his website........

...but not the entire show. On his website he has video of his opening monologues and new rules.

And I believe it's also on ITunes......and sometimes people send video links here at DU...

[tulsakatz]

28. probably sometime in February.....

[mountainvue]

20. I remember watching the show and listening

to the conversation between he and Zakaria and finidng myself agreeing with Maher. It was blown completely out of context when everyone's emotions were raw.
I think when he left HBO the first time he had some kind of agreement that if things didn't work out with ABC that he could come back. And I remeber in the lead up to his debut on ABC that there was surprise that the network would take him on and a sense of worry that he might do something controversial. No one could have predicted at the time it would work out the way it did.

[Festivito]

29. When Howard Stern changed to be against Bush, off air in 5 days.

People gave Republicans the benefit of the doubt until the messed with Social Security.

After that, Katrina, the failing war, and other things were held against Republicans where for years everything was held as a positive to Republicans.

Thus when Maher spoke, that was a time when the benefit of the doubt went to Republicans when they and their pundits twisted what was said.

[MADem]

30. Albritton communications initiated a boycott--they owned a bunch of ABC stations.

Their flagship station was in the DC market, where the movers and shakers would watch the show. Maher couldn't hang on and got cancelled. ABC didn't have sufficient affiliates to be able to sell ads nationally, so he wasn't a money maker anymore.

I thought he was being truthful. He wasn't saying they were great guys, he was saying that they had commitment to their cause.

He overcame it by getting a gig on HBO where he had a full hour and could say "shit" and "fuck."

[PurityOfEssence]

32. He wasn't violating his audience's trust and expectations; they were

Let's back up a second here before the inevitable furore: people seek entertainment and information with preconceived expectations, and show folk who know the score know where not to tred. Sure, the Dixie Chicks were absolutely correct and courageous to gamble their careers saying what most of their core audience didn't want to hear, and for this, they're to be commended. They ARE commended for it, and it has helped them be taken more seriously, even if it has crimped their conduit to the masses a bit.

Most people want refuge from life's vicissitudes in their moments of audience participation, or at least they want a fair advertisement of what they're about to get. Knowing those limitations is the province of every performer, and many who overstep bounds pay in subtle and not so subtle ways.

More directly, Maher's job is to say controversial things; the Dixie Chicks' job is to sing country music: love songs and heartachey ballads. Maher was doing what his audience expected and wanted, even if he went way beyond the pale for some and crossed out of their safe zone. The Dixie Chicks were doing something entirely unwelcome. What they did was probably more noble and effective (since it started an unexpected dialogue) but they did it at a cost.

In the end, even though what Maher said was much more surprising, it was done in a forum where such topics are not only expected but desired. Other than vague homilies about God and patriotism, country music concerts aren't supposed to be about rancorous politics.

[PassingFair]

34. Maher has something to piss everybody off.

He pisses me off, but I still enjoyed "Religilous"

[BlooInBloo]

36. He overcomes such things by giving the idiot audience a newer, shinier thing to gawk at.

[leftofthedial]

38. you really think his audience is the "idiot audience"?

[SoCalDem]

37. Bill Maher has a big following, and went to HBO..He never should have gone to ABC

in the first place.. His show sucked once he did that, because he had been muzzled.. He's always belonged on HBO..even Comedy Central was too confining for his style of humor..

[alarimer]

39. The Dixie Chicks don't get airplay on COUNTRY music stations.

Because mainstream country music stations are programmed by idiots. ALL the music they play is utter crap. The Chicks, however, do get played on other channels, mainly listener-supported or Americana stations.

The mainstream country music stations are unlistenable. It jumped the shark long ago. Remember when the "O Brother where Art Thou?" won all kinds of Grammys and other awards? Yet country music stations NEVER played "Man of Constant Sorrow". They were, and are, completely out of touch.