Poll: If Social Security and Medicare are ended, can you take care of your elderly parents?

[Cleita]

With all the talk of cutting back benefits on "entitlements" like Social Security and Medicare, I'm curious as to how many people are prepared to take care of grandma if all these programs are limited or done away with altogether. Just a little information on what exactly you are paying for with your FICA taxes, this is how it's broken down for 2009. The maximum you are going to be taxed on is the first $106,800 of your income at the rate of 7.65% or for a total of $6,621.60. Of course if your wages are less than that you would be getting taxed less as well.

2009 FICA Tax and Social Security Limits

FICA Tax Rate = 7.65%
Social Security Limit = $106,800
Maximum Social Security Contribution = $6,621.60

It seems to me that getting FICA deducted from your check to take care of grandma and her medical expenses is a pretty good deal considering that the alternative is having to assume the burden yourselves. Now there are other things to consider. The employer matches contributions doubling that amount and yes there are your brothers and sisters who will help lessen the amount of that obligation too in theory. How much better if they pay their obligation through FICA deductions making sure they help out? I know that the math nerds will add to this so I kept it simple. Of course it is a more complex issue in detail, but this is basically what it's about. Can you and are you willing to assume the entire burden of caring for aging parents, or is government assistance with a FICA tax a better solution? Of course it means that when the time comes you will also be able to collect retirement benefits and not be a burden on your children who are by this time growing families of their own.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. I can't pay for my own health care

and I'm still working. My mother, at 90, has more money than I do, but it would be gone in a flash if she had to pay all of her medical bills.

As for "better planning for your retirement"--that is a bunch of hooey. Look at the retirees whose nest eggs were wiped out by the fall of the stock market--or those whose companies have declared bankruptcy so they don't have to pay pensions.

[Cleita]

5. I have to agree with you on all you say. n/t

[Blue_In_AK]

8. Exactly. We lost over $60,000 of our retirement money

before my husband pulled it out of the market several months ago. We probably wouldn't have anything left at all if he hadn't taken that step.

[leftstreet]

2. Sad that #4 would ever be an option on a Democratic discussion forum

"They should have planned their retirement better. Not my problem and I hate FICA taken from my check."

:(

[Cleita]

6. This option has proponents at large and I have run

across it at DU in the past. I'm curious how many people still feel that way.

[leftstreet]

13. Oh I know you're right. It's just disgusting all the same

:hi:

[monmouth]

3. SS is a major part of my income. If that's gone, I'm under the RR bridge..n/t

[Cleita]

9. I'll be joining you under that bridge if that happens. n/t

[LiberalEsto]

4. My parents are deceased

but I'm very worried about what's going to happen to my husband and myself.

We're in our mid-50s and have many years left to pay on our mortgage. There is no way we would be able to pay the mortgage on what Social Security tells us we can expect to receive. That is, IF Social Security still exists in the future.

[Cleita]

7. Hopefully SS can be improved in the future, not done away with as the

conservatives would like.

[donco6]

10. Other: They're already dead. n/t

[Cleita]

11. So what about you?

Will you be a burden on children or other relatives if the conservatives get their way calling this welfare, getting away with cutting benefits or the program altogether?

[donco6]

34. No kids.

I hope I'm not a burden, but I do worry . . .

And if anything, we should be EXPANDING our social security programs, not cutting them.

[Cleita]

36. I agree. People like you need these programs more than anyone.

:hug:

[DJ13]

12. Both of my parents died years ago, and Im on SSDI myself

Both my wife and I would probably end up on the street (her job of 5 years only pays 50 cents above minimum wage), along with her father who lives off his SS checks.

[JitterbugPerfume]

14. I am the parent

I don't consider myself elderly but I do not think my kids could , or should be expected to take care of me

Without my social security I am royally screwed

on edit--in the interest of truth my son already helps me with utility bills . He was afraid I would turn the heat to low . I absolutely hate it when my kids worry about shit like that.

[Cleita]

16. Most of us are royally screwed then.

I live with my family already in what they call mother-in-law quarters, a trailer on their property, but I manage to pay my own expenses and medical expenses, and some rent to them because of SS and Medicare. I think I would go jump off the pier if these programs get eroded more than they already are.

[JitterbugPerfume]

20. my kids help me too Cleita,

and I am getting more and more dependent as time goes on .I now have to pay $95 a mo for insurance which was formerly free and I feel like I am drowning . I am presently in good health ,at least it is good for a 68 yr old overweight woman. I also live in a trailer and thank god it and the land it sits on are paid for.

Getting old sure ain't for cowards!

[ncrainbowgrrl]

15. My parents are paying for MY health/bills NOW- I'm 29.

First I was layed off. Then I got REALLY sick. Like hospital sick. Now I have to turn to my parents to ask for help... and it feels awful. I'm supposed to be an adult, and I feel 15 again. No. I couldn't help them out. That makes me sad.

[Cleita]

17. Hopefully, we will get some meaningful health care reform down the line

that will help people like yourself as well. :hug:

[ncrainbowgrrl]

18. I hope so. I know so many more like me... it scares me

:hug:

[hfojvt]

19. you are wrong about part of that

there is a ceiling for FIC which is taxed at .062 (with an employer match (this means YOU if you are self employed)). For the MED part of .0145 (with employer match) there is no ceiling - all of your wage income is taxed at that rate.

Not that most of us are breaking that class ceiling anyway.

As for me and my house, my dad is a Federal retiree and thus 98% of his retirement income is NOT social security, although it still comes from our other Uncle Sam. Plus, like many people of their generation, the value of their house has quadrupled so there'd be a fair amount of money if they sold that and had to move in with me or one of my sibs.

[Cleita]

22. I'm not wrong. I didn't include all the prissy details as I said.

It is more complex than a short post can make it. Basically, it works out as I outlined and that box comes from a reliable news source. I didn't make it up.

[hfojvt]

32. The reliable news source is wrong then. Typical.

It is important though, that you only included half the costs. The employer match could also be going to the worker instead of to the government so they can send a check out to John McCain (et. al.) The SSA figures I (and my employers) have paid in $28,500 as of 2007, but they don't include any interest over the last 23 years. At 5% interest, my total would be $42,925.40.

Another detail is that it is only collected on wage income. Not on interest, dividends, capital gains, rent or royalties. As Mr. Hapgood wrote in "The Screwing of the Average Man" most of the working class would be better off if FICA taxes were scrapped and the whole program was paid out of income taxes. And he wrote that in the 1970s before the tax rates were jacked way up.

[Cleita]

35. It's collected the wrong way that's for sure. I would give a break to the working poor

and remove the cap from wages. Taxing interest, dividends, capital gains and rents would get huge screams from the investment class. However, scrapping FICA to be paid out of the General Fund is a conservative's wet dream. No sale here buddy. I know all that interest you could be getting is another wet dream. In that case may I suggest an IRA or 401k that will give you the interest in good years and wipe out your savings in bad years. But SS is reliable and delivers in both good and bad years. So I think if you run a spread sheet with your figures, through the last twenty years you will find that the FICA collected in that time was a much better investment for your future and for the present for your grandparents and parents than investing that money in Wall Street. And if you are getting 5% interest on savings anywhere, the rest of us would like to know about it too.

[oldnslo]

21. Speaking as a grandpa, married to grandma......

Without Medicare or Social Security, many of us will simply die. We are not all wealthy, nor are our children. Further, we don't want to be a burden to our kids, anyway. If that time comes, I will simply go buy a bottle of good scotch, and wash down all my pills with it, at once. Then let nature take it's course. Simple. I bet I'm not alone in my thinking, either.
America, more that probably any industrialized country on earth, demeans its elderly to the point that life is not worth living. Oh, there's lots of lip service, but actions tell the truth about elder poverty and lack of healthcare, and how little our life experiences mean in the grand scheme of things. It would probably make a lot more difference to me if I was healthy as could be, but I know that at best, there are a few good years left, then it gets real iffy, so I don't sweat the small stuff.
Of course, if any of you youngsters get sick too, I would recommend the scotch and pills cure to you, too. It's never too late, or too early, to help your neighbor by ceasing to exist and getting the hell out of his way.

[azmouse]

23. We've already talked about our mothers having to move in with us

because of their finances.

My husband and I don't have children to 'take care of us when we get old' but no one with children is guarenteed that those children will want to or be able to take care of them when they get old. We should all be prepared to take care of ourselves to the best extent possible.

[Horse with no Name]

24. I'm just wondering what possessed me to think that voting Democratic--

even though I had to hold my nose to do it--was going to be better than not voting OR voting for a Republican.
Somewhere I believe I was convinced that if I did NOT vote Democratic that we would lose SS and Medicare.
I must have gone through the Looking Glass because we are in the same position NOW as I feared we would have been in if McCain won.:shrug:

[Cleita]

26. Well, not as bad and we still have champions in Congress like

Dennis Kucinich, John Conyers and Bernie Sanders in the Senate who will have a stronger voice now. With McCain there would have been the same stonewalling. I think that has ended. Now it's a matter for the liberal members to start pulling the conservative Democrats to the left. I think it will happen if we the people start pushing them with a figurative cattle prod until they do the will of the people. That's us.

[azmouse]

29. The difference is that Obama will try to find a way to keep these programs.

McCain wouldn't even care and wouldn't lose a moments sleep over grandma having to sleep on the streets.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

25. Other: My stepfather was well off, so my mother should be okay for the

next five years or so, but her assisted living situation is EXPENSIVE. There's no way my brothers and I could afford it, not even together.

And I have no spouse or children to support me. I'm just lucky as a translator that I can keep working as long as my brain holds out.

[Cleita]

27. And you never know when that is going to hit you.

Mine brain is going and although there is medication for it now, it's so expensive it's not affordable to me even with a prescription drug benefit, so I don't take it.

[Maru Kitteh]

28. No freakin' way I could afford it. We support mom as much as possible now

At the expense of our own healthcare.

[AngryAmish]

30. No fucking way

They are dead.

[varelse]

31. Am I willing to support my parents? Hell yes! Able? not so much...

my income would never suffice to support my parents' medical bills and cost of living. I've asked them to let me know if their retirement income is insufficient to their needs, so that I may supplement it to the best of my (limited) ability, but if Medicare and Social Security were to end, it would be devastating. I don't make a lot more than I need to pay rent, buy food, and pay my part of the premiums for health insurance obtained through my workplace, and I certainly don't make *enough* more than my cost of living that I could fully support two older people with multiple medical issues.

It's a shame I didn't get through college, but they couldn't afford to send me and I was not able to handle (or even find) a full time job and a full college class load after graduating from high school and taking two years of community college courses (this was in the mid 80's). Maybe if I'd gotten a "career" instead of a series of "mc jobs" I could have answered "yes" to both questions instead of just the one. Then again, maybe not. Many college grads are out looking for work right now, and not finding it.

If we lose Social Security and Medicare, there will be hell to pay.

[Hepburn]

33. All of my parents are deceased....

...bio mom, bio dad, adoptive father and step mother. So, I do not have any concerns about taking care of them. And, fortunately, all of them were well off or had union benefits that totally took care of whatever they needed.

[Cleita]

37. So who is going to look after you when the time comes?

[EFerrari]

38. If those programs are ended, my mom will be fine

but I will have to go live in the park.

[Javaman]

39. flamebait. nt

[Cleita]

40. You've got to be joking.

Discussing Social Security and how it affects everyone, both the elderly and their families, is not flamebait.