Does bad spelling reveal anything about the writer? (includes classic FR example)

[mwb970]

I sometimes see misspelled words here on DU, particularly the surprisingly difficult word "its", which very few Americans can spell correctly without adding an erroneous apostrophe.

I have to admit, when I see that someone has written "the party must take it's rightful place" or some such, my opinion of that writer, and therefore of his/her opinion and post, slips down a notch. Each subsequent grammar error or misspelling makes me less impressed with what the person has to say.

But is this right? What does spelling have to do with the thought expressed, really? Or does it show a lack of schooling and literacy to be unable to write properly, and therefore such a person must be ill-informed in other regards as well? I do worry that maybe I'm being too harsh and "word police-y".

For an extreme and risible example, we must turn to the wingnuts at Free Republic. You might enjoy this post I came across on an FR thread (don't ask). I think it must set some kind of record for misspelled words in a short post (errors in bold).

To: curiosity

Youself have cannonized the spactacular Presiden and contenanced niether Martin Leuther King or spactacular pshycophants and their consistant vitrolic hatret of the pinicle of loonacy.

45 posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2009 5:54:11 PM by analog9

I've never seen anything this bad on DU! On top of the spelling errors, the grammar is twisted, the misspelled words are used incorrectly and the meaning is completely opaque. Why bother posting?

[hobbit709]

1. Because an occasional mispelling may be a typo.

I've done that several times myself. But in the case of freepers, where the errors occur about every other word, it's a good indication of willful yahooism.

[Javaman]

40. "Because an occasional mispelling may be a typo."...

but at freeperland they take it to an art form!!

:rofl:

[boobooday]

2. That's pabst blue ribbon talkin' nt

[jobycom]

3. I'm not bothered by spelling mistakes or idiosyncratic grammar or vocabulary. I am bothered

by lack of punctuation. I could or couldn't care less regardless or irregardless about individual words, but when I read thread titles like "Tell me this is Obama great or what" I immediately label the poster illiterate and skip their thread, unless I'm just in the mood to pick on them. Occasional grammar errors are easy to understand, but a complete inability to communicate through writing is likely to reflect a mind that has nothing to communicate. IMHO.

But yeah, the thing you quote above is not literate, and worse, seems unaware that it's not.

[Richardo]

4. My fingers often put that apostrophe in before my brain notices...

But I'll edit to correct it if I notice.

As for the FR post, every knows that the top of something is its pinochle. :D

[MrModerate]

5. Whoa! That's a doozy!

And no, a simple error or two shouldn't disqualify a person's thoughts. I'm an writer/editor and a tyrant about spelling, punctuation, and grammar from my writers and subeditors. But I have them proof my work -- and they often find errors.

However, in a place like DU, I think that an accretion of mistakes does (and should) compromise one's credibility. I think we owe it to ourselves to be precise in our thinking and our expression. After all, one of the reasons Bush was unable to govern effectively was because he couldn't communicate effectively. I'd hate to be caught repeating his mistakes.

Not to argue against colorful expression, which often makes classic grammar unimportant. But the example you cite shows an unsettling derangement. I'm pretty sure I could pick the author out of a crowd and make a beeline to the other side of the street.

[independentpiney]

6. "an FR thread "? that should be " a FR thread"

Police yourself.

[fudge stripe cookays]

9. No it shouldn't.

Because the F sound begins with the sound of the vowel E (like EF). That calls for inserting an N after the A so it flows more naturally.

fsc <-- editor

[independentpiney]

10. you're right n/t

[Odin2005]

34. In Old English it was always "an", as time passed the "n" came to be dropped before consonants.

IIRC.

[Odin2005]

37. Oops, wrong place...

[Tartiflette]

12. Not so

According to at least one the grammar books I use, the pronunciation is key as to whether the article should be a or an. If one pronounces it as "eff-arr", then it is a vowel sound and it should be "an FR" just as, for example "an effigy". It would be correct to say a Free Republic thread, of course.

On edit - beaten to the punch by a few minutes.

[DemBones DemBones]

43. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Nay]

7. Most of the time, it means the writer is indeed ill-informed and/or ill-educated.

That doesn't mean that the writer is necessarily stupid or his opinion is worthless, but that often seems to be the case. I struggle to separate the general population's illiteracy from a certain person's opinion and try to evaluate the opinion on its own merits, but yes, it's hard. I can't help but connect good or bad spelling and grammar with good or bad habits of mind. I have to wonder what else the student failed to grasp in classes besides spelling and grammar. Logic, maybe? History? Certainly history.

[WePurrsevere]

15. Possible of course but it can also mean a person is dyslexic or has some other

physical challenge to overcome. :)

My DH is dyslexic and it effects his spelling, grammar and even his speech, especially when stressed or overtired (which he sadly often is now since he lives in constant pain). I've seen similar spelling and grammar issues with stroke victims and other neurological disorders (such as MS). Even high levels of stress/fatigue can effect memory and neuropathways so that although the brain may "know" what the proper way to spell or phrase something is, it comes out differently.

[Zywiec]

8. Not necessarily. Maybe the writer is from another country

and English isn't their first language.

I look at the message.

:shrug:

[mwb970]

55. Hmm, I hadn't really thought of that....

I find it hard to believe anyone who speaks another language can even learn English, with its crazy spelling and endless exceptions. I'd forgive a lot more than an it's if English was not the person's first language! Thanks for reminding me.

[ProfessorGAC]

11. Looks Like The Using Of Big Words. . .

. . .the writer doesn't normally use. Must have gotten a Word Power set for christmas.
GAC

[Epiphany4z]

13. I am hooked on foniks it werked fer meee

spell check is my best friend.

perhaps english is not the posters first language?

[Buns_of_Fire]

14. (O/T) I believe "psychopants" was *'s nickname at Harvard.

Spongebrain Psychopants. Yep, that's him.

[notadmblnd]

16. I don't usually correct a persons spelling or grammer

I know people with MBAs that can't spell or write a coherent sentence. Often in my own postings, it's just a matter of fat fingering the keys, and of course spell check doesn't always point out an error if the error happens to be another legitimate word. In most cases, it does not diminish what I think of an individual poster.

[Obamanaut]

48. Normally I don't either, especially "grammer"

I really hate seeing "would of" instead of "would have" (or any combination of "-- have"

[bigtree]

17. no

folks can hold useful knowledge and be sloppy spellers. The poster you highlighted has a real problem, though.

I really hate the smugness of many of the grammar police here. It's typical of one of them to come onto a thread to point out a misspelling and completely ignore the query. To me, that's just as ignorant as it is annoying and arrogantly rude.

[treestar]

18. It shows that the person doesn't read much

[ThomWV]

20. I'm afraid your answer is certainly wrong

Before my eyes went I read between a book a day and about 3 a week for my entire teenage years and my adult life and I can not spell for shit. Oh, and no, I'm not talking about Superman comic books here.

[treestar]

24. Most people by reading and seeing the words over and over remember how

to spell them. Or that possessive is "its" and the contraction for "it is" is "it's." Repetition causes people to remember things. Reading results in repetitively seeing words.

[ThomWV]

26. Good readers don't see the words

If you read by looking at each word it must take you a month to get through a book. I often read entire chapters and never so much as recall seeing the pages turn. The words to me as a conversation in my mind and I have no conscious recall of ever seeing the printed words.

[treestar]

30. You must be unusually non visual then

I'm visual so seeing the words imprints them in my mind.

[ThomWV]

33. Well, there is one really odd thing about it

I can not explain it well other than to say that after reading for just about a minute I sort of fall into a trance (probably too strong a term) and from that moment on its like I'm seeing a movie in my head. All the characters say the words in the book and the story goes on. If its a text or technical book my mind's eye turns it into something akin to a documentary. When that happens my reading speed goes way up too. When it happens I knock off a typical 200 page book in a few hours. Now here is the really weird thing. Although I don't see the book when I read if, within a few days of reading a book, if you ask me for a quote from the book I can tell you what page it is on and where it is located on the page; in my mind I can see the page printed in front of me and I can re-read the quote, I can read the page number off of it too. It only lasts for a couple of weeks at most. I've never understood it. Oh, and maybe this can tell something about it. As poorly as I spell my punctuation is even worse. Other than a comma and a question mark* I'm just guessing about when to use any of the other marks.

* I was informed on this board on Sunday that I often misuse the Question Mark.

PS: The spell check found 16 words mispelled in the above on the first pass.

[conscious evolution]

41. I do the same

Its like books turn into movies in my head.In real life this has turned into an ability to look at a set of construction blue prints and see the finished building or machine in my head.Sort of a built in auto cad or virtual reality program,so to speak.

I think the use of pc's has contributed to the spelling and/or grammar problems so many have.Before spell check and instant editing people were more likely to write rough drafts and check spelling as they were writing.(Remember White-Out?)The speed at which things move on the net also probable plays a part too.I find that I am more likely to type and post on the fly on the net then when I am writing off the net.

Another thing to remember is that the right wing has spent decades dumbing down the education system in this country in order to create an ignorant society that is easily manipulated.Often, peoples lack of writing ability is not a reflection of their intelligence but an end result of what they have or have not been taught.GIGO,in other words.

[seabeyond]

28. three people in my family cannot spell. brother, his daughter and my mother.

all three have read plenty, lots in fact. it is something in their brain. and it is really odd and stupid spellling. it is a joke in my family. i spell thru visualization and memory. i think with their brain it doesnt do one of those. like visualization of seeing word in past.

[ThomWV]

19. As a very poor speller I looked into the reason years ago. You should do the same.

The ability to spell, I found out, has more to do with how you were taught to read than any other cause. As it turns out I was also able to discover that during the early 1950's a very few schools - and I was in one of them - used some a method that while very good at teaching reading skills left the students with no clue as to how to spell. As an example, without the use of the spell-check function I would have (did) misspell six words in this simple paragraph.

[DemBones DemBones]

44. I don't think that's the only reason, though.

Having always been a good speller, I used to look down on those who weren't. Then I had a very intelligent professor who was a poor speller and had to rethink this prejudice. He was born in 1912 so he obviously wasn't in school in the Fifties.

Now I think maybe the ability to spell is like the ability to whistle: some have it, some don't.

Generally, people who read a lot are better at spelling and punctuation than those who don't but you, and my old professor, present interesting exceptions. I read fast, too, certainly not pondering every word, but I don't see books as movies the way you do. That must be a very interesting experience.

[RTFirefly]

21. Someone got a thesaurus for christmas.

That was my first thought on reading the quote.

[Wizard777]

22. Do you have the same opinion of the US Constitution with it's spelling errors? Why bother with it?

Jefferson would misspell the same word three different ways in the same document. He was none the less a brilliant man. It's like Obama said in Baltimore. "They produced imperfect documents."

[treestar]

23. They had fewer published books, and so less agreement on spelling

In those days, they weren't spelling wrong so much that the spelling was not settled.

[Wizard777]

31. Yes it was settled. The ultimate authority on spelling was the King.

That's why it's called the Kings' English. He was the only one that couldn't misspell a word to save his life. If he wrote Kat. The official spelling was indeed Kat and not cat. He was also the ultimate authority on pronunciation and grammar.

[jimshoes]

25. A musician who hits nothing but wrong notes

is not much of a musician and likewise won't gather much of an audience. Everyone makes the occasional mistake, but sometimes a post such as the one above, tells me the writer has yet to crack open a dictionary.

[FedUpWithIt All]

39. Just because a musician cannot read music does not mean he cannot create music.

Who is to say what is the right or wrong note in a new composition?

Some people can produce beautiful music but can neither read or write it down.

[jimshoes]

42. That is true, but if your E string is out of tune

your composition will suffer for it.

[seabeyond]

27. when/win. i just did a post i typed when instead of win. i KNOW the difference. i also

did not have enough coffee. thankfully i re read the post and found three or four stupid mistakes. why i dont generally type a post so early in the morning.

shit happens

i dont think it is indicative of a persons ability to conceptualize. BUT, it does effect me when i see certain errors. then i try to open my mind to hear the context of the post.

[Evoman]

29. Your example is really bad, but usually bad spelling doesn't bother me.

I know I make spelling mistakes all the time. Most of those errors are due to the fact that I'm usually working and have just a few minutes to go on DU. I don't proofread what I've written, so I often have typos and other stupid errors.

I've had papers published and I'm no slouch at writing. However, I still make plenty of mistakes and it would be hypocritical of me to judge others for their mispellings. Even semi-literate people have a right to have their ideas read. They may be older people who never went to school or people with learning disabilities. If you can understand their message, even though there may be mistakes in their writing, it would be assholish to disregard them (not to mention a bit elitist). Especially if their ideas are good.

[pnwmom]

32. Research shows that spelling ability does not correlate with the degree

of overall intelligence.

I believe it has more to do with a certain kind of visual memory, rather than phonics skills. English is not a particularly phonetic language. That's why the incidence of dyslexia is much higher among English and French speakers (another language that has lots of "silent" letters) than it is among Spanish and Italian speakers. It's not because Spaniards and Italians are more intelligent; it's because the spelling rules of their languages are simpler and more consistent.

[FedUpWithIt All]

35. I have a very poor education. Technically, i am a very poor writer.

I'm an intelligent person. I have "picked up" some along the way. I am able to speak and convey a point or message clearly and i can use spell check.

Some might ask why i do not spend more time learning things like grammar, spelling and punctuation. Frankly, I have more pressing things to do with my time and my life at this point.


I am the exact opposite of you. If i see someone ignore a message so they can critique a person's writing ability, i tend to tune them out. I think it is arrogant, insensitive and offers up very little. Anyone with the good fortune to have a decent education can become a grammar/spelling/punc. nazi. It takes someone with experiences, creativity and passion to write something from their heart. These things do not come from, nor are they dependent on, classroom learning. Quite the contrary, they often come from a life without it.

[lonestarnot]

36. So posters with brain injuries should not be allowed to post according to your

uppityness? Yeah I made that word up! So shoot me!

[myrna minx]

51. Don't forget people (like me) with dyslexia.

Apparently I'm not worthy to post in such a place like this. :eyes:

[lonestarnot]

58. Yes that too!

:hug:

[Odin2005]

38. English spelling is so screwed up I'm surprised mistakes aren't more common then they are.

It's a mish-mash of Germanic, French, Latin, and Greek spelling rules, and even in the native "Germanic" words the vowels are screwed up because of the pronunciation shifts that occurred since the 1400s.

Also, the stress patterns of spoken English has a tendency of causing syllables to weaken or disappear, leading to misspellings in words like "interesting" (which is pronounced more like "intristing").

[BR_Parkway]

45. Some little person trying to look important through big words that

they don't know how to spell (or pronounce) is very similar to people who bully others. Hmmm, correlate that to the average Freeper (or even the FORMER pResident)

[Winterblues]

46. When did combining two words into a Contraction not involve an apostrophe?

It's is a contraction of it is, and if the word it was expressing possessiveness like it's new coat for instance,it would have an apostrophe, in fact I would venture most usage of the word its should have an apostrophe..

[lumberjack_jeff]

47. The example in the OP is using it's as a posessive form of it.

It's means "it is".

Its is the possessive form e.g. "It's so cute when teh kittez wavez its pawz"

[Winterblues]

50. Possessive form means something belongs to it

Like it's coat. combining two words into one is a contraction such as it is into it's. That is not possessive. The OP was using its in a plural form not possessive.

[lumberjack_jeff]

52. "The party must take it's rightful place"? Plural? n/t

[MedleyMisty]

53. "it's new coat"

means "it is new coat". The possessive would be "its new coat" - you aren't contracting anything in the possessive.

Personally, unless someone states that they have a learning disability or that English isn't their first language, I do take their spelling and grammar abilities into account when reading their post. Internet forums are generally text-based communication. Your post is all I see and know of you.

I went to rural schools that were okay but not great. I only have a two year degree. My parents were factory workers, and after my father died my mother and I lived in a single-wide trailer. I worked at Arby's for years and seriously wondered about people who couldn't read our menu operating cars on the same roads I was driving on. I'm not some rich snob looking down my nose at the unwashed masses.

Barring learning disabilities I think it's okay to expect people to show competence in their own native language, especially when there are tools to check your spelling and many many dictionaries available online. When I'm not sure how to spell a word, I put my best guess into a search engine and find out the correct spelling. And it only takes a few seconds. If you have time to post on DU, you have time to click "check spelling" or use some other method to find the correct spelling.

Oh, and I won the school spelling bee every year except fifth grade when they changed the rules - I was runner-up that year, though. :) Always choked at the district bee, sigh.

[Winterblues]

54. Okay let's try a different form

Sally has a new coat it is Sally's new coat. See how the apostrophe is applied in a possessive form. It is a pronoun. It can have a new coat as well and it would be referred to as it's new coat. There is no contraction. It's is a possessive form of the pronoun it. In fact I am hard pressed to come up with a plural form of the pronoun it. If it is a number, how many its are in the box...I know it doesn't make any sense but it is a plural form of the pronoun it..

[fishwax]

56. pronouns don't use an apostrophe in the possessive, the way common/proper nouns do

Actually, many pronouns do (everybody's, one's, nobody's, etc.) but the most common pronouns don't use an apostrophe to indicate possession. For example:

That is John's coat >> That is *his* coat
That is Sally's coat >> That is *her* coat
It has a coat >> That is *its* coat

If Cousin It had a coat, it would be "(Cousin) It's coat" :)

[rvablue]

57. There is no apostrophe in: "The dog had on its new coat." It's = "it is."

[Hepburn]

49. So, Sarah Palin is posting on the FR!

:evilgrin: