If you were an Illinois State Senator, would you vote to convict

[cali]

blago and remove him from office? Granted, we don't have all the information that the real Senators have, but I think there's plenty of reason to remove him from office. What do you think?

[Coyote_Bandit]

1. State senators can't convict him of anything

They can only vote to impeach him and remove him from office.

Impeachment is not a criminal offense.

The reason he did not mount a defense in the impeachment proceedings is because any testimony or evidence given under oath would be admissiable in his pending criminal trial.

[cali]

2. No. He's been impeached by the house. the senate is now

voting to convict or not. Conviction results in removal from office. And conviction is indeed the term of art used in the process.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States

[Coyote_Bandit]

10. The impeachment process does NOT

result in a CRIMINAL conviction.

It is a process to remove him from office.

[cali]

11. I didn't say it resulted in a criminal conviction. I explained to you

that the senators vote to convict or not and that that is the term of art. period.

[Coyote_Bandit]

24. And the point of my post was

that impeachment is NOT a CRIMINAL offense.

That meanas that the governor was put at a tremendous disadvantage should he choose to present a defense in his impeachment.

His choice was to
(1) offer a defense in a POLITICAL trial that carries no civil or criminal consequences aside from the loss of his position in office knowing that any testimony or evidence entered under oath would then be admissiable in any future civil or criminal trial or
(2) forego entering any evidence in his own defense in order to preserve the options available to him to defend against any pending or future civil or criminal complaints.

He made the right choice in not defending himself in this farce of an impeachment trial and he made a very valid argument in his defense.

Any sitting representative that votes to remove him from office ***before*** there is a legal finding of civil and or criminal wrongdoing should aso be removed from office IMHO. They have presumed him to be guilty and they have pursued his removal from office by placing him in a position where it was not in his interest to defend himself. The timing of this impeachment trial is such that the governor has effectively been denied due process.

It probably is a good thing that he will be removed from office - but the manner in which that is being effected is abhorent.

[cali]

25. codswallop. you wrote this:

State senators can't convict him of anything
They can only vote to impeach him and remove him from office.

I informed you that the senators can indeed vote to convict and explained the use of the word is a term of art- something YOU obviously did not know.

[Coyote_Bandit]

29. Ummmm......

"Convict" (verb) the only definiton contained in Black's Law Dictionary 5th edition: "To find a man guilty of a criminal charge, either upon a criminal trial, a plea of guilty, or a plea of nolo contendre. The word was formerly used also in the sense of finding against the defendant in a civil case."

Same dictionary points out that impeachement hearings are held before "quasi political courts."

You fail to distinguish between a conviction in a criminal court and a conviction in a political proceeding and the implications of those differences. The word "convict" can refer to either. I was referring to a criminal conviction. Granted, I did not define my terms well in my first post but I think I have since made that abundantly clear.

State senators cannot convict the governor of a crime that carries any penalty, repariations, imprisonment or fine. They only have the power to remove him from office. That is the only thing they achieve if they vote to convict in an impeachment trial. You are ginoring that distinction along with the political nature of the impeachment proceedings.

You also seem to be ignoring all the very valid legal reasons why the governor would not present a defense in this impeachment trial.

[WeDidIt]

37. You should give it up

The vote today is to convict or acquit him of the impeachment charges.

He has been impeached. There are two choices for each Senator. They either vote to convict or acquit.

[Coyote_Bandit]

43. Delete

Not fucking worth the effort.

[Posteritatis]

3. I'm torn. I want him gone ... but *pie*... (nt)

[Tatiana]

4. Anyone who says Rod is a hero clearly does not live in the state of Illinois. n/t

[The_Casual_Observer]

6. How is it then that he was elected twice?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

9. Paul Valas got screwed by the machine, and all other choices

were far worse than Blago. Seriously.

[rurallib]

12. The GOP in Illinois basically committed suicide with a ton of corruption

for his first election. I live a few miles from the QCA and often watch and listen to Illinois news wondering how long Blogo would last.
Second time I think the stench was still enveloping the GOoPers in Illinois. They were truly decimated after Gov. Ryan was arrested tried and jailed for corruption. Their bench in Ill. is really short.
I am sure some Illini could really fill in the details.

[Radical Activist]

19. The Republican alternative

offered nothing but corruption done for the other party instead.

The Green Party is now an official established party on the ballot in Illinois because 10% of the voters chose to vote Green instead of voting to re-elect Blago. Blago only got 50% in a strongly Democratic state.

[Radical Activist]

20. Also because he raised $10 million in campaign funds mostly from state contractors.

It scared off any strong primary opponents.

[Tatiana]

30. People like myself were even more disturbed at the Republican alternative.

I voted for Vallas in the primary. Unfortunately Blago, with his superior money machine, won the Dem nomination.

[WeDidIt]

38. Two Names

Jim Ryan

Judy Baar Topinka

In 2002, I would have voted for Mickey Mouse before I would have voted for anybody who had no shot at defeating Jim Ryan.

In 2006, even though I knew Blagojevich was a crook, I was convinced Topinka was an even bigger crook.

[ieoeja]

44. I voted for him twice, but now want him gone.

His first term had mixed results. But on the balance I thought it was positive. And the allegations of illegalities came entirely from the GOP, aside from one comment said in anger by his father-in-law after he shutdown a company connected to his father-in-law and that routinely violated state environmental laws.

That last bit really made him popular. He promised to cleanup the corruption, and it appeared he was doing just that.

But his second term has been an absolute disaster. He proposed a budget with huge new expenditures to be paid for by cutting payments to retirees. Over nine months the Legislature proposed other options. Over nine months the Legislature and Governor scheduled meetings. Over nine months Blagojevich only showed up for one scheduled meeting. And he reportedly walked in late, told everyone he wasn't interested listening to anything they had to say on the budget, then walked out without listening to anything they had to say.

So the Legislature passed his budget and fucked the retirees.

Blagojevich vetoed it. On the very day they passed the legislature, a new idea came to him: free rides for seniors on Chicago public transit. So the legislature quickly added that to the budget.

Of course, he did not provide any funding for this new program. So public transit had to raise rates which are paid largely by the inner city poor. In one budget he fucked over the inner city poor and state retirees.

What a guy!

To hell with pay-for-play. To hell with extortion. He should have been impeached for refusing to meet with the legislature to discuss the budget. For he was not doing his job. And I can think of no better grounds for impeachment than refusal to do your duty.

The most common phrase I hear in solidly Democratic Chicago regarding Blagojevich being elected to two terms is, "my worst vote ever." And you can count me among those who say that.

[Posteritatis]

46. That line of reasoning would make Bush a hero too (nt)

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. Did you hear those sanctimonious do-gooders at that thing? They are the same

bunch of bastards that Blago has beaten in the last two elections & has faced down repeatedly at every turn. This whole thing is a farce.

[damntexdem]

7. Yes, but pie is also glorious.

And on March 14, pi will also once again have its glorious day. ;-)

[Libertyfirst]

8. Silly, very unfair procedure by legal standards.

[WeDidIt]

39. Impeachment and removal from office is anything BUT a legal proceeding

It's entirely political, as it should be.

[PBS Poll-435]

13. No

nt

[asdjrocky]

14. You should never give me the choice of pie.

Pie will always win.

[cali]

17. and the pie I have in mind

maple pumpkin praline.

[asdjrocky]

21. You're killing me here.

[polmaven]

23. Uh oh...

How do I change my vote? I NEED some of that pie. (Did you bake it?)

[cali]

26. I love to bake and I love to bake pies and tarts

that's a pie I've already made 3 times this winter.

[polmaven]

27. I'll be right over...

When is the next flight (on which Sully is the Captain, of course)?

[davsand]

15. Was looking for "I live in Illinois, HELL yes I'd vote to convict."

It was missing, sadly enough.


Let the corrupt little goatf**ker go to trial and face criminal charges later--just get him OUT of office right now. Stop the damage. If we could find a way to do it, that little pissant deserves to be booted out of the IL Dem party given the damage he's done.

I hope he gets a fair criminal trial, and I pray I am never called for his jury pool because I want to see him go to "federal pound me in the ass" prison for what he's done.



Laura

[Radical Activist]

22. Yes.

I also vote federal "pound me in the ass" prison for Rod right next to George Ryan.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

16. Yes, he's crazy.

And people shouldn't have a crazy, corrupt governor in office.

[fchurch66]

18. He has made the Democratic party silly enough.

Make that crook go away! Illinois needs a severe makeover.

[Peregrine Took]

28. Its a political trial from start to finish. The kingfish down there hated

him from day one.

Even a plan for impeachment was drawn up back in 6/08 but they had to wait to get a "hook" to implement it which Fitzo handed them.

[WeDidIt]

40. That's because they KNEW teh fuck was crooked as the day is long

Hell, back in June Dick Cheney was more popular in this state than Rod Blagojevich.

[NiteOwll]

31. How about, "I'm from Illinois, and this is

all a political witch hunt." It's unbelievable that they can do this to an elected governor. Where's the proof he did anything wrong?

[cali]

32. there's tons of evidence

start with the taped phone calls and move on to what the house prosecutor presented this week.

[NiteOwll]

35. Sure there is...

Snippets of almost inaudible recorded phone calls in which you don't know the context of the call. Yep. Just because they keep repeating that there's "overwhelming evidence" doesn't make it true. :eyes:

The fact that he dare oppose certain people in the Assembly is real reason this is happening. And the Republicans are more than happy to go along with it.

[Posteritatis]

47. Ahh, but none of it is aimed at a Republican governor, so it's all smoke and mirrors! (nt)

[MadBadger]

33. I say no, but not for the reason you associated with no.

[WildEyedLiberal]

34. Oops, I picked "yes get the cane" before I noticed the "I'm an Illinois citizen" option

I can't wait for that scumbag to stop stinking up my state.

[WeDidIt]

36. Damned few who DON'T vote to convict will survive an election cycle

Illinois despises Blagojevich, and will punish any Senator so foolish as to vote to acquit save a very few districts.

[davidpdx]

41. Convict him and get the cane to remove him off stage

Then spank him with it.

[Mike 03]

42. Yes. The man's a narcissistic sociopath, charm notwithstanding. This farce

has gone on long enough.

[earcandle]

45. Democracy at work. Uh Huh, uh what?