I say “Tax the Crap out of the Wealthy Elite”

[FreakinDJ]

I say “Tax the Crap out of the Wealthy Elite”

The policies they have promoted and even “Bought and Paid for” through campaign finance, and or corrupt dealings has led this country down the road to ruin. So much so, now the working class through decades of taxation to come and forfeiture of decade’s long 401K savings programs have had to pay for their GREED and CORRUPTION

The Wealthy Corporate Elite have proven to be a “Blythe upon our Country”

Greed has distorted the working model of “Capitalism” to become some thing for these dishonest Bastards to Raid. ALL financed with our Hard Earned Savings entrusted to them through our 401K savings plans.

Tax them !
Tax them Hard with No Regret!

We need a return to the model of Capitalism that this country was built on. Not the current model which prescribes “All for Wall St, and America be Dammed”

[Warren Stupidity]

1. Treat capital gains as income.

End welfare for billionaires.

[Vanje]

3. Heck!

End billionaires!

[FreakinDJ]

4. Yes every thing over 500K - tax as income

[cali]

16. Do you mean every asset?

[FreakinDJ]

23. Capitol Gains in excess of 500K

to be taxed as personal income

[Warren Stupidity]

40. why not all of it?

[byeya]

61. Wealth Tax & Tax on Stock & Bond Sales

I live in Virginia. Each year I have to pay a tax on my cars and farm equipment if I own any. The USA needs a progressive tax on wealth - house, stock portfolios, yachts, bank accounts, etc, over a certain figure, say $10 million. Also, I don't think purchase & sale of stocks and bonds should be tax exempt: Institute a small tax on such trades because it'll add up to a significant sum for the Treasury. The estate tax also needs to be raised.

[nolabels]

63. The problem is how large pools money are obliged to behave with the status quo

Not only are the regressive tax laws backward but social and libel systems focus in on keeping things tilted a certain way

[terisan]

2. I am for it.nt

[ProgressiveProfessor]

5. Have a viable plan?

[shireen]

8. yeah, start treating them like any other middle-class taxpayer who earns a salary

Fully tax capital gains. The current 15% rate is ridiculous.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

34. Not going to do a lot of good and will hurt small investors and retirees who need to cash things to

live.

The real issue here is a massively complex tax code. Also remember the thread was about a wealth tax.

[Political Heretic]

52. Small investors and retirees did just fine under clinton

When Captial gains was more appropriately set.

[byeya]

65. "Massively Complex" tax code

I think the reason for a complex tax code is to benefit the overly-wealthy and allow them to shelter income from state and federal taxes. Simplify the tax code, make it steeply progressive, and allocate IRS resources to focus on rich individuals and corporations.

[Kansas Wyatt]

6. And put a retroactive tax on them dating back to Reaganomics.

They enjoyed their free ride on the backs of the middle class for years, and now is the time to pay for their years of greed.

Wealthy people beware... The only thing standing between you and peasants storming your gates is a strong and vibrant middle class, and you have severely jeopardized and destroyed the middle class all these years. Your own safety and well being now depends on you paying for all your years of destruction to the middle class.

[Donnachaidh]

12. YES.

The we can go after Icahn and the other corporate jackals that were the front line troops for the wealthy elite to start hacking away at the social safety nets of unions.

[annabanana]

7. No need to be radical about it...

Just put the rates back to, say, where they were when Kennedy was president.

[w4rma]

57. Back to Eisenhower, imho. (nt)

[lunatica]

9. Taking away corporate personhood would help greatly

And regulating corporate growth, forbidding monopolies and making them break up will also work

[Donnachaidh]

10. umm -- BLIGHT or BLYTHE?

Sorry -- spelling nazi moment.

[ThoughtCriminal]

28. Ever been to Blythe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blythe,_California

[nichomachus]

32. Oh -- yeah -- every couple of months

If they were going to give the west coast an enema, they would stick the tube in Blythe.

Seriously. You can't even get a decent meal there. I generally don't eat at Mickey D's or places like that, but sometimes do when I'm traveling because it's predictable. In Blythe, the McDonalds are the worst I've ever eaten in, and the other places are worse. Now, I just bring granola bars with me and eat a meal when I get home.

[1776Forever]

11. Check my post out - 400 Wealthiest has income double under Bush!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4949853&mesg_id=4949853

[Warren Stupidity]

15. exactly

and they are sitting there with their 15% capital gains rate, which is how they manage a 17% tax rate while the rest of us are in the 25-35% range. It is bullshit, putrefied, awful, foul, rotten, moldy, crap. End the ride.

[1776Forever]

19. The sooner the better! Is it any wonder the Repub's are fighting for lower taxes?

They don't want their sugar to stop!

Damn them!

[FreakinDJ]

25. Tax cuts have Failed the Economy and the Country

I can't believe anyone is even Stupid enough to suggest Tax Cuts for the Rich and Corporations as a means of stopping the current economic melt down

[norepubsin08]

13. The rich are scum and a drag on society

they don't pay their fair share..I say eat the rich, or at the very least...put them in re-education camps

[cali]

17. aren't you the cute little totalitarian?

There are quite a few people with money who do pay their fair share and who are people I'd far rather hang around with than the likes of you.

[wolfgangmo]

49. Perhaps.

It is time for Dr. Guillotine to visit. What do you think?

[lightningandsnow]

66. ...missing a sarcasm tag?

[Warpy]

14. One of the reasons the economy improves as taxes on the wealthy

climb is that the wealthy, allergic to taxes, try to find ways to avoid them. Those ways include charitable endowments, plowing money back into a business in infrastructure improvements, and providing money for new ventures so they can claim business losses on them that year. In other words, the specter of having to pay Uncle Sam forces them to do what they
should be doing instead of creating speculative bubbles: keeping their money working by keeping it moving in the economy.

In addition, too much money to the wealthy starts them dreaming of Empire, and we've seen where that leads.

A progressive tax with a confiscatory tax rate of 99% on all income over ten million a year is vitally necessary in the short term until the GOP debts are paid down to a reasonable level. The top tax rate should never dip below 70%, and even that might be too low for some plutocrats.

It's the only way to provide enough of a disincentive to greed to encourage the wealthy to keep their money moving.

[Waiting For Everyman]

18. I completely agree, and with your reasons too.

Extreme wealth isn't healthy. There's no need to to do away with it entirely, just the absurd topmost level of it. I'd earmark it though, to go first to needs at the bottom. That's really where most of it comes from - people they ruined by various methods.

[cascadiance]

45. I guess then the big state lottos would have to go on the deferred payment plans then!

if taxed that way... Though that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing in this economy either, so that the state's could hold onto the money for a little longer before paying it out and have a bit more assets to pay other bills...

[safeinOhio]

20. and how about

life in prison for evading taxes with off-shore accounts. Add a little risk for the crime.

[FreakinDJ]

22. We need more enforcement of "White Collar Crime"

its only illegal IF you get caught

[TWiley]

35. Sorry, butt "deregulation" = "decriminalize" = "not prosecutable"

Ronnie made white collar crimes legal through deregulation.

[DUlover2909]

48. How about we keep Guantanomo open for white collar crooks?

[Sherman A1]

64. Bingo!

My thoughts exactly!

[seabeyond]

21. 500k seems to be wealthy per some of posters on du. but i agree

Greed has distorted the working model of “Capitalism”

yes

[Political Heretic]

53. 500k IS wealthy.

Holy hell... take a look around the world.

[JVS]

54. An income of 500K in a year means wealthy.

One could argue that people with assets of 500K are not wealthy in light of the fact that there is no such thing as a pension for most, but it is still a hefty amount of wealth.

[seabeyond]

78. i was referring to net worth per another thread. n/t

[pansypoo53219]

24. eliminate the social security FICA cap.

that will make them squeal like pigs. fix 2 birds w/ 1 stone.

[FreakinDJ]

26. Do that like "Yesturday"

[OnionPatch]

27. The whole system has always been rigged in their favor.

That's from day one, back before kings and peasants. The system has always been rigged against working people simply because they lack the power to assert their rights. Their work has been de-valued/undervalued in the same way that racism has undervalued entire races of people. It's really time for the civilized world to start valuing ALL labor and stop rigging the system against the powerless. The mega-rich have taken, or have been given, too large a piece of the pie and it's just been getting bigger and bigger while everyone else's has been shrinking. Taxation is the way to begin balancing it out immediately, but our culture must move toward putting a greater value on labor, or we'll never stop the stark inequality we are witnessing.

[FreakinDJ]

29. Read about Denmark and their Nationalist Labor Party

makes Americans look like Retards

[OnionPatch]

31. My office mate is a Dane, here temporarily on a sort of unofficial fellowship.

She heads back soon and has no intention or desire to stay here beyond her initial visit. It's embarrassing when she tells me about all the rights working people have there. I asked her if she can take me home with her. ;)

[FreakinDJ]

33. The key is the "Return on Investment for their Tax Dollar"

Sure they are taxed at 40% - but look at what they get for their tax dollar

- Cradle to Grave Health Care
- Free College Education for all who qualify
- 6 weeks paid vacation
- continuing career eduction

and the list just goes on

Actually it is embarrassing considering all the Corporate Welfare we pay in America and all we get is "Repossessed"

[Dumak]

30. The wealthy are a huge burden on society

I wonder how much of our work is spent catering to the idle rich?

[TWiley]

36. No shit ! So is the military BTW ..... the two go hand in hand.

Defending "American intrests" overseas only means that the US military will use war to create safe zones to export jobs to along with stealing minerals and exploiting the locals. Of course, the working chump in America is expected to pay for this at the same time.

Modern warfare is legitimized money laundering. It is little more than larceny by conversion. It takes tax money and lines the pockets of the rich.

[harmonicon]

59. exactly

I've been saying all along that that was the entire point of the Iraq war - just to give Bush's rich buddies A LOT more money.

[byeya]

62. If you've been saying that all along,

then you've been correct all along, in my opinion. More people need to realize this.
I think Dennis, out of all the candidates, was the only one to call for a reduction in military outlays....started at a 15% reduction I believe.

[TWiley]

37. While we are at it ..... I say "Tax the crap out of Religion" too !

Just another conservative PAC anymore.

[jody]

38. AGREE & give an Obama Shovel to all physically able to work receiving public assistance. n/t

[anonymous171]

39. Amen. American Capitalism was all about preventing a wealthy all-powerful aristocracy

They did this by taxing the living shit out of all of them (estate tax, income tax, you name it they taxed it.) It worked too.

[originalpckelly]

41. So allowing only 535 people to control that money is more democratic than 3+ million?

I tend to think that people will be corrupt, no matter whether they are in private industry or government. I certainly do not trust only 535 people to manage money more effectively than the top 1%, which is about 3 million people.

In theory, the "representatives" in Washington, D.C. are working on our behalf, but if given enough power, anyone will become corrupted and I argue they are already corrupted.

That doesn't mean only having 1% of the population is smart or democratic, it just means that we cannot democratize wealth by letting an even smaller number of people control it.

[wolfgangmo]

50. Warning: straw man argument.

The difference, oh plutocratic one, is that we can vote them out of office. Your sacred "1%" have no such accountability.

Your argument is pure BS.

[JVS]

55. Those 535 are at least elected. Nobody voted for the 3 million shitheads.

[TWiley]

80. Listen to Aristotle ..... Govern from the middle class

This will save everyone from either the tyranny of the rich or the poor. Aristotle is the father of the Democratic party BTW, and Plato is the father of the Republi-craps. Plato falsely asserted that the best way to govern was with a small and powerful ruling class (your argument) and that legislation should focus on the moral behavior of the peasant class. Republi-craps force the government into the moral control of your life .... gay marriage, abortion, and intelligent design are only a few examples.

Democrats believe in the legislation of economic morality .... the moral behavior of the wealthy or capitalism. It is immoral to clear-cut the Amazon just to make a buck. It is immoral to destroy the planet in the greedy persuit of wealth.

These fundamental differences are why I am a Democrat and not a Republi-crap.

[Still Sensible]

42. As a middle class taxpayer I could support

taxing capital gains that are over some reasonable threshhold as income. What is a reasonable level before that kicks in? $1 million, $2 million, $5 million? I don't know, but I think you'd have to do it that way so as to not really put the hammer down on investment.

[FreakinDJ]

43. Why should Corporate Raiders be given a Tax Break

A capital gains tax (abbreviated: CGT) is a tax charged on capital gains, the profit realized on the sale of a non-inventory asset that was purchased at a lower price. The most common capital gains are realized from the sale of stocks, bonds, precious metals and property. Not all countries implement a capital gains tax and most have different rates of taxation for individuals and corporations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax

All those factories and Manufacting businesses that were bought up and sold off piece meal or shipped to China used to employ American workers

Why do RATpublicans Hate the American Worker

[pa28]

44. There will be an ideological hill to climb but I think we have to.

We have snowballing deficits as far as the eye can see. Bigger outlays and shrinking revenues.

We've had a massive experiment in redistribution lasting over 20 years but the experiment but clearly the experiment failed. Conventional wisdom took hold that dictated lower tax burdens on the wealthy stimulated economic activity and improved tax revenue - obviously that belief needs to be challenged.

Soon it will be time once again for the wealthy to pay for the disproportionate protection and utility they receive from a strong government. It must be the wealthy because the middle has been tapped out and no other class has the assets to make good on our obligations. Maybe it will be a european style wealth or maybe higher taxes on top bracket incomes but that revenue has got to come from somewhere.

[Hanse]

46. Here's my solution.

Find the richest guy in the country.

Take away his money.

Keep taking away his money until he's equally rich as the next richest guy in the country.

Now there's two richest people in the country.

Then, take their money away until they've got as much money as the third richest person in the country.

Now you've got three richest people in the country.

Reiterate until you've got a balanced budget.

And people can't complain, because they're still the richest person in the country.

[anonymous171]

47. Large estate and income taxes (for the rich) are a must. nt

[Political Heretic]

51. 1% tax on all stock sales - only sales.

First of all, contrary to (I don't think its even a popular) myth, "middle class" doesn't own stocks. Not as a statistical rule. The top 10% owns something like 80-90% of all stocks. We also have a problem with market speculation. So a 1% tax on all sales of stock would have an effect of providing a disincentive against those who buy stock then immediately sell it in large quantities purely in an attempt to drive up the price. It would also generate a metric butt ton of revenue.

This tax would not ruin rich people. Perhaps the rate should be modified up or down, but America used to have this tax. It is not an untried idea.

The overwhelming majority of tax exceptions for individuals in the fourth and fifth tax quintiles should be eliminated. The top 1% of wage earners currently pay an average effective tax rate of approximately 15-17%, not the over 30% suggested. For corporations, the average effective tax rate in 2004 was approximately 8-11% not the 35% that is the "listed" tax rate. Tax loopholes suck. Eliminate them.

Remove the cap on social security tax.

These, in my mind are pretty fair changes that would generate huge amounts of revenue that I refuse to believe would kill wealthy business or individuals.

[Lucky Luciano]

68. a tax on sales could keep stock prices artifically high...

That is not good....leads to crashes.

[Political Heretic]

85. It didn't when we HAD the tax before.

We used to have a tax on stock sales.

[Hannah Bell]

56. “All for Wall St, and America be Dammed” is the model the country was built on.

http://maap.columbia.edu/place/16.html

"The New York Stock Exchange has roots that go back to a spring day in 1792, when a group of 24 men met outside 68 Wall Street in the shade of a huge sycamore tree that locals called a buttonwood. They set down the rules they would trade by and called it the Buttonwood Agreement. Later that year, trading moved into a room on the second floor of the Tontine Coffee House, where it remained until 1817. In the words of its president, it was a place “filled with underwriters, brokers, merchants, traders, and politicians; selling, purchasing, trafficking, or insuring; some reading, others eagerly inquiring the news…Everything was in motion; all was life, bustle and activity." It was also a place built on slavery."

[harmonicon]

58. high-five!

I couldn't agree more. I think there should be a progressive tax, and I think it should be outrageous to correspond with the outrageous amounts of money that some people make. It would be nice after some point if people only made, say 1 penny from every million dollars they get. That should curb outrageous salaries and bonuses.

[Lucky Luciano]

70. nah...it would just lead to deferred compensation.

If I owned a business and I made a $300MM profit one year, then I would tranfer that profit to another company that does nothing but disburse to me the maximum I can earn before your 100% tax kicked in and I would shut down the older business. Then the newer company would just pay me an annuity for life.

[tomp]

75. then we make a law that says you can't do that. nt

[govteacher]

60. Tax them!

Agreed!

[olegramps]

67. If you think that higher tax rates are a possibility, you are kidding yourself.

I remember Obama saying that the tax cuts for the wealthy were unfair and he was for recinding the tax cuts. Now that he is in office he says well maybe we will let them expire in 2010.

What a bunch of bull crap are far as I am concerned. Why don't we put pressure on Obama to recind these unfair tax cuts immediately? We could go ahead and try, but the chance of that happening is less than winning the lottery. All this Kumbaya crap with the Republicans is sickening.

Do really think that the Demorcrats will actually go after Bush and Cheney. They don't have the guts to issue a subpoenia and when they fail to show to order their arrest by U.S. Marshals.

[edc]

69. Tax Yourself?

You're right. How can you expect people who love money and hate taxes more than anything else to tax themselves for people they despise when it's cheaper to bribe politicians not to tax them?

[Maineman]

71. Check this out

Three senior economists who work for the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis claim that the current credit freeze crisis began as vastly overstated fear mongering very similar to the run up to the invasion of Iraq. Surely this is another case of criminality by the Bush-Cheney gang.

Link: http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/39461

[DailyGrind51]

72. The real reason Republicans hate the French -- the guillotine!

[ErtBob]

73. If there is one good reason...

to tax the wealthy, it's because THAT'S WHERE ALL THE MONEY IS!!!!!!.

The disparity between the rich and poor is growing more and more rapidly and there is nothing good about that.

Let's see about supporting the middle class, that's where the foundation of a strong economy lies.

[MannyGoldstein]

74. 91% Top Tax Rate Under Eisenhower

And the Republicans held both houses of Congress as well. All told, including capital gains taxes, the wealthiest Americans paid 50% in federal taxes back then.

Today the wealthiest Americans pay 18%, while the middle class pays more than 30%.

[Lorien]

77. Indeed. Reaganomics has brought us to where we are today. nt

[Blue Dog Dominion]

76. The only fair way to tax the elite and not screw entrepeneuers is to have a consumption tax

We really need a VAT tax, but have an exemption level so that 98% of the population never pay it. Tax the people hardcore that spend over that amount. Tax the "art" they buy, the extra houses etc.

[Lorien]

79. So what I produce ("art") should be taxed so that I sell even less of it?

will there be unemployment benefits for artists along with this plan?

[Blue Dog Dominion]

83. Yup. Artists are SUPPOSED to starve

[.... callchet ....]

82. Screw the entrepeneuers ?

What have they been entrepeneuing lately ?

[.... callchet ....]

81. Why would anyone on the du be against raising taxes?

Why would anyone be against a massive progressive tax on the above $250k and a digressive tax on $250k and below phasing out altogether at $50k?

Obama has to play it slow, but we have to show our support for the "Change ". If we had demonstrations he would respond. Guaranteed. RIght now he is

acting alone, taking the full shot from the Repukes. Our job was not over on NOV 2.

[Blue Dog Dominion]

84. Because some people want to have a better standard of living then what the government would provide

Those that build businesses and communities won't continue to do so if their risk has no reward

[Lucky Luciano]

86. yep...I definitely think people have the right to try to become wealthy.

A lot of people are highly opposed to that here. I think anyone who is capable and motivated should be rewarded - sky is the limit.