Is Obama fallable?

[tavalon]

I'm seeing way too many places where a reasonable discussion is being shut down by some variation of "Obama chose that, and that's that!". I'm uncomfortable with the deification of this man. He is great, no, mega great as he can formulate thoughtful ideas and then express them well, but God he is not. I'm wondering if anyone else is getting creeped out by the growing messianic tendencies around our new Pres (Geez the last one actually had Messianic tendencies, this one doesn't but his fan base seems to).

I voted for him, I walked precincts for him, I emptied my pockets for him and I will tell him and you when I think he's made a mistake because he has, he will and he will continue to, just like every other human on this earth.

[MrSlayer]

1. We need to be as tough on him as we were on The Chimp.

And I think we will be. I just can't see President Obama being anywhere near as obtuse and idiotic as Chimpy. Not even close. He's going to fuck up here and there and he's going to do shit a lot of us don't like. We'll be here to let everyone know when that happens.

[tavalon]

5. We also need to watch his back

We weren't there when the Republicans started in on Big Dog and yes, he got a blow job and he lied about it because they cornered him. Where were we when they were spending all that money trying to find something to impeach him for? Those are the two important tasks we have this time around, watch Obama's back and keep his feet to the fire.

[MrSlayer]

8. Absolutely.

We have to be ready with the facts at all times. These whoresons are going to come from every angle. I think President Obama knows exactly what he's dealing with. It's going to be different this time around.

[tavalon]

9. Thank goodness the grassroots did learn a few things through the Clinton years

These last eight have been incredibly hard though, jeez.

[Ms. Toad]

18. Clinton lied about it because,

in that aspect of his life he is a slimebag and a habitual liar.

Just look at his history. He can't or won't control his sexual urges, and he lies about it (even to his wife) until it is discovered and becomes undeniable and - when cornered - he finally tells the truth.

As to other things far more relevant to his job as president, he was pretty good. Not perfect (DOMA and DADA being two prime examples), but pretty good.

[tavalon]

19. Yes, yes, yes, but really, who cares?

I wish we Americans were a lot less concerned about slippery bits and more about politics.

[Ms. Toad]

22. I wasn't responding to whether it was important or not

only to the reason he lied (which you suggested was because republicans had backed him into a corner). The reality is he lied because in that area of his life, that is his habit. He told the truth because republicans (or his wife) backed him into a corner.

I don't particularly care - but it wasn't republicans who caused the lie.

[tavalon]

2. I suppose it would be silly and just a little recursive,

to ask the people who vote NO! to discuss their point of view. It is, after all, the end of the discussion.

Nevermind.

[murielm99]

3. Of course he's fallible, even if he doesn't say so himself.

I have noticed some people here who become angry at the slightest hint of criticism. Of course, I am seeing this other places, too.

I remember the great admiration people had for JFK, but no one acted like he was infallible. This could get creepy.

I have not yet offered up much criticism. I think he needs more time. It is much too soon for me to feel comfortable about scrutinizing his every action. Anyway, the republicans and the media are doing that.

I worked hard for him, too. But I did not do so until after he had the nomination. He was not my first choice.

I was worried that this might happen. There was too much hero worship from his supporters. That bothered me from the beginning.

He will need criticism, even from those closest to him. He will need criticism from us. But it is much too soon. Give him time.

[tavalon]

4. Same here, he was my third choice, though once I came on board

I worked, worked hard as many of us did. But now that I think about it, there was a messianic tenor to some of his followers. So, I would guess those are the people who are making what I consider asinine stances.

[murielm99]

30. This is a time to be careful about hero worship.

This country just might collapse. (Of course the republicans wanted it to collapse with a Democrat in office). Many people will be looking for a king or dictator.

Some of the big businessmen of FDR's day wanted to install a fascist type dictator to run the country. Other people wanted FDR to be king. Maybe we were just fortunate that some of the right people were there to guide us through it.

I am not saying that Obama would fancy himself as king or dictator. But someone else might. That someone might not necessarily be a republican, either. We need to be careful about hero worship.

[Hekate]

6. I must say I'm very disappointed that he didn't turn the Perrier into Dom Perignon for the Inaugural

... and also that he hasn't walked across the Potomac River yet. :eyes:

Hekate

[tavalon]

7. Have you checked next weeks schedule?

I think the Dom thing wouldn't have looked good from a populist POV, but walking on water should work just fine. Of course, might Rahm be bothered by that, being Jewish? I'll have to check on that. ;)

[Political Tiger]

10. Nobody believes he is infallible

Those are right-wing talking points. The whole "Obama the Messiah" line is one great big right-wing talking point.

However, there is a difference between constructive criticism and constant whining. It's one thing to have a genuine disagreement with Obama over something, but some people take it to the other extreme which is everything Obama does is wrong! There are people who complain simply for the sake of complaining.

When someone defends Obama they are accused of being a groupie of the "Messiah." How about a little fair play, and let's start calling those who do nothing but bitch about everything Obama does of being part of the 'Obama is the Anti-Christ' or 'Obama the Devil' club? If we are going to label people why don't those who believe Obama can't do anything right get labeled too? Sounds silly, doesn't it, but it's no more silly than accusing people of believing that Obama is the "Messiah!"

Personally, I see no reason to label people at all, or to ask inflammatory questions like "is Obama fallible?"

We're all entitled to our opinions and having a certain opinion doesn't make one right or wrong.

For example, let's look at the Howard Dean issue.

Day after day we hear from some people that Howard Dean should be Surgeon General, Secretary of Health and Human Services and/or White House Chief of Staff. Fine. But that's an opinion, not a fact. Then someone reads some blogger say that because Howard Dean was not at some public even or didn't have a party thrown for him it means Obama is "snubbing" him. Unless someone can read Obama's mind that is an opinion, not a fact. And just because some blogger makes a claim doesn't automatically make it a fact! Some people believe Howard Dean is entitled or owed a cabinet position. Fine. But that is an opinion, not a fact.

And just because someone points that out it doesn't suddenly mean Obama is their "Messiah."

[tavalon]

12. Actually, that first choice was a direct quote from someone

And it wasn't meant in jest. That's that! And it isn't the first one I've seen, just the first one that provoked a poll.

[Political Tiger]

14. I'll take your word for it but

I would suggest anyone who thinks Obama, or any other human being, is infallible is a nut case and not to be taken seriously.

I'm a huge Obama fan, so much so that I've been labeled a "fan-boy," among other things, but I have no doubt Obama will, and already has, got some things wrong. It's to be expected. I just don't see a need to bitch about each and every mistake over and over again. IMO, I suspect most people feel that way.

[tavalon]

16. We need to keep our knives sharp

He has done amazing things in less than two weeks. I've complained about a thing or two but mostly I have praise. But has anything really changed with the House and Senate. Has spine been found growing there. In other words, we cannot be complacent. At all.

[quickesst]

11. Somehow...

...I'm not surprised that there are a few people here who agree with the republic party that he hasn't done anything right so far. With enough help they might take back the White House in four years. Thanks.
quickesst

...and he is human, therefore, fallible.

[tavalon]

13. Actually, that was freeper bait, that answer was and no, they won't be taking it back

Can't blame a girl for having a little fun with her poll. I'm surprised no one picked, I dunno, I skipped confirmation classes.

[treestar]

15. Well come on, if we want to give him total support, especially

in his first damn month, what is wrong with that? We've seen how the right wing does it and how much effect they've had. I disagree on some thing, but I'm going to put up with it rather than have right wingers in power again.

He's also smart - if I disagree with Obama, I'm not going to knee jerk condemn him. It would be better to look into why he's doing it. I'm impressed by his intellect and he's smarter than me, so he might have convincing reasons.

[tavalon]

17. That's a very slippery slope you have there

How far does it go? I think we need to be watchful and appreciative of the good things, but very watchful. We are in a dangerous time now, surprisingly more dangerous than when the idiot was in there, if you can wrap your mind around that! He needs to hear from us. We are his spine as well as his supporters. The DLC and corporate interests (a slight redundancy if you will allow) are whispering in his ears. We will need to shout because they are closer. He is walking a razor thin line and if the recession continues to destroy jobs and hope, people will rise up in a way that won't be helpful. Telling Obama now, what needs to happen to stop that is sound policy, IMO. It was sound policy when he was the President-Elect and it's sound policy now. He says he wants to hear from us. He must hear from us.

[tavalon]

20. Good morning, morning people

Shameless self bump for the latte drinkers of the world.

[Iggo]

21. "He said so himself."

Nice.

:rofl:

[tavalon]

23. Uh-oh, did I do a 2am grammar fuckup?

[Iggo]

28. No, no, no. (Well, maybe...)

But what I was laughing at was the notion that the test to see whether he is infallible is to ask him own self. <----(See? Now whatever grammar thing you may or may not have done, I did ya one better.)

[tavalon]

29. I'm usually fastidious about grammar but there are a couple of things that always trip me up

and sometimes I can't see them even when pointed out. Form of dyslexia? Who knows?

[MiniMe]

24. Of course he is fallable, but he has done a lot of things right too

A lot of the posts here seem to be Obama needs to _____________ (pick your pet cause). There is so much that needs to be done, and Obama has his priorities of what is most important. He has been in office for about 2 weeks, and we agree with most of what he has done. But we have to be realistic, some things will take longer than others. He can't do everything at once. His most important priority right now on his list is the economy, and I think that is what needs to be top on his list. Some things that we want him to work on may need to wait, he needs to spend his "political capital" on the most important things right now. I've been impressed so far. But I am realistic also. I think Dashle is a big mistake, especially after what has come out. And he didn't tell Obama. Obama needs to cut him from the position imho.

[TahitiNut]

25. Other: When not speaking 'ex cathedra' on matters of faith and morals ... of course.

(But imbeciles never comprehend this.) :eyes:

[Tommy_Carcetti]

26. Of course not. Don't be ridiculous.

[tavalon]

27. That is hilarious, thank you!

I'm quite sure you didn't skip out on confirmation classes.

That is just classic.