Why couldn't Congress request a clean sweep of everyone's credit reports?

[KansDem]

If Congress is going to bail out all these financial instutions, why didn't it make it a requirement that all Americans' credit histories be swept clean? Finanical institutions and consumers all start over!

Everyone start anew!

It seems that my taxes are going to bail out financial institutions who won't loan me $2,000 to replace my water heater...

I'm going to have to wear waders in my kitchen soon!

[slackmaster]

1. No thanks

I've spend over 30 years building up a good credit history and score.

You want to take that away from me? Not just no, FUCK no.

[Systematic Chaos]

2. Yeah! Gawd dayum it I've spent about 20 years dee-stroyin' mahn...

... and I'm proud of it!

Don't make me have to go out there and get more shit I can't pay for!

:rofl:

[KansDem]

10. Congratulations on your perfect life!

Wow!!! No catastrophic health problems? No marital problems? No job loss? No legal problems?

You're awesome! They should make a TV show based on your life! Oh, wait...they already did..."Leave It to Beaver," "Father Knows Best," "The Donna Reed Show," "Ozzie and Harriet"... (Say, is your next-door neighbor named "Thorny," by chance?--"Hi, Slackmaster!," "Oh, ah...oh...Hi, Thorny") :D

[slackmaster]

15. Oh boy

I have a lazy eye, flat feet, and hypertension. I'm a little over weight. I'm divorced. My job is shaky.

I haven't had any legal problems since I was in my 20s. That's the result of hard work and personal discipline, as is my credit history.

Try it some time. It beats the crap out of bringing successful people down so that everyone is "equal".

[KansDem]

21. Funny? I never said that I wanted to "bring down successful people"

How did you interpret that?

[slackmaster]

27. Stripping away the credit histories of people who worked hard to build them up

Sounds to me like bringing people down.

You're the one who came up with this cockamamie idea. You built your canoe. Now paddle it.

[Threedifferentones]

62. The thing is, your credit will still be good

Perfect in fact, just like everyone else's. And the idea that we all have perfect control over our lives is silly. I built my canoe, along with my family, my neighborhood, my culture, the global economy, etc...

[Statistical]

69. a lack of credit is not good credit

Good credit history takes years to build.

If (and I think it is a longshot) Congress mandated that every credit report be erased it would be great for the bottom 50% and a punishment to the top 50%.

Everyone would have AVERAGE credit not good credit.

I worked very hard to leave within my means always and now (after a decade) enjoy good credit not average credit.

[slackmaster]

94. That's not how the real world works

No credit history is bad credit history, compared to good credit history.

:argh:

[ProfessorGAC]

102. If All The Scores Were Perfect, Perfect Becomes Ordinary

So, nobody would have a good rating. Nobody would have a bad one. Every would be mediocre, even though the number would be a perfect score.

I don't think you thought this through.
GAC

[tjwash]

18. Bitter much?

Dayum...just because you have your issues doesn't give you the right to rag on people that that have been responsible.

I love the internet, nothing is above being shit on.

[KansDem]

24. How did I "rag" on slackmaster?

He implied I was trying "to bring him down." How? I applauded his perfect credit history. What's wrong with that?

[slackmaster]

29. Your sarcastic comments about my life

Based on poor assumptions.

Your idea sucks ass, and so does your defense of it.

[OwnedByFerrets]

97. Touche'

[Skidmore]

36. Credit histories don't mean squat when there are no jobs and they

are based on lending from banks that are insolvent.

[dajoki]

39. I don't think he is suggesting...

that someone like you, who have built up good credit, would have that taken away. I think he is saying that people with bad credit can start from scratch, to me that means starting over with no credit history.

[treestar]

41. How does it hurt you?

It just means a bank makes loans to people it wouldn't have otherwise.

[tammywammy]

42. And how does that change the position we are already in

Part of mortgage melt down was because the banks were loaning to people it shouldn't have in the first place.

[dajoki]

44. Only the select few...

are allowed to be homeowners?

[tammywammy]

51. The fact that people are in homes now they cannot afford is part of the problem

The banks were loaning out money to people that shouldn't have gotten it in the first place, using ninja loans, ARMs, etc. Now I think for banks to remain solvent, yes they should shy away from that kind of behavior.

[dajoki]

57. I was able to afford my home...

until a series of medical problems and my wife losing her job. We did not "overbuy", in fact we bought a cheap fixer-upper which we renovated ourselves and have been living here over 20 years, now we are struggling to make the payments.

[KansDem]

103. You sound a lot like my situation...

Next month, my wife and I will be 21 years in the same house. It's a 1,100 square foot, two-bedroom/one bath "fixer upper" that was built in the early 1950s. There is the prospect for a third bedroom as part of the garage, but other than that, we have no plans to expand or sell. We only have a few more years left on the mortgage. But a couple of major medical problems the last few years put us behind on our payment by a month (missed work and two paychecks). We continue to make the payment regularly, but always one month behind. It seems we can't get caught up.

I'm hoping this year's tax return will get us current, and perhaps our credit situation will improve...

Hope things work out for you! :hi:

[Thothmes]

70. Only those that can repay the mortgages they signed up for?

[TwixVoy]

79. YES!!!!

I am freaking sorry but not EVERYONE can be a home owner on borrowed money.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

68. No they won't, they'll only loan to people who have lots of assets and few debts.

[Bake]

105. But then they wouldn't get to feel superior.

And that would hurt them deeply.

Bake

[AZBlue]

76. So bring everyone up to an acceptable score and leave those above that number alone.

Then those with really good credit would still have it and those without it would now have decent credit.

[Why Syzygy]

91. That wouldn't be "taking" anything from you!

Sheesh. I've been saying this should be done since the bail outs began. If those buzzards can get free money, at least give us a chance for a new start. I have medical bills. Even though I've always paid everything else on time, those keep me strapped down. How would that be TAKING from you?

[Skittles]

93. I agree

[billybob537]

3. Just make the maximum interest rate Prime plus2%

[Kansas Wyatt]

23. Bingo!

And make all interest TAX DEDUCTIBLE.

Corporate America has clearly displayed that it CANNOT survive on it's own, while jacking up interest rates sky high. Instead, they stunt and jeopardize the entire economy by doing so.

[stray cat]

4. and let everyone out of prison as well as abolish all debts !

:sarcasm:

[Lasher]

8. Hey, maybe we should do that periodically

Maybe every 50 years.

[Raksha]

101. Every fifty years, huh? Seems like that idea's been around for a while.

I'm referring to the biblical Jubilee years, of course. An oldie but goodie...maybe we need to revive that one!

[zagging]

5. Next, we'll wipe away congressional records!

They all start anew!

[KansDem]

13. I don't recall bailing out Congress...

And Congress doesn't downgrade credit records... So what's your point?

[zagging]

16. We are bailing out congress in a way

They dismantled Glass-Steagall, which has played a major role in our current problems.

[John Q. Citizen]

6. Why would you spend 2 grand to replace a water heater? That's way too much.

You can buy a new one for 200 to 400 dollars.

Anything over 200 for installation is a rip off unless you have some really odd situation. (Like you have a submarine houseboat, or something)

Why would you need 2 grand for a water heater?

[KansDem]

12. Tankless...

I am hoping to save 200 to 400 dollars a year...

[Stevenmarc]

14. I went tankless about 6 months ago

The quoted savings are pretty accurate, it was worth every cent.

[seabeyond]

20. ya well, not at my house. LOVE our tankless, BUT hot water never runs out

good cause it did so quickly with just two showers, we have four people. but now the showers, well... i have to bang on doors and yell for people to GET OUT. lol

i like tankless, havent checked on the savings.

[slackmaster]

17. My job is tankless too

Nobody appreciates what I do unless I fuck up.

[Lasher]

90. Ouch!

Bet you'll be here every night this week. :-)

[dysfunctional press]

46. but still...two grand?

ours cost $1000, and we got the BIG unit...
but- i did do the install myself.

[KansDem]

50. "i did do the install myself."

Therein lies the rub.

I bought a Bosch 1600-H from a local Lowe's store, but couldn't find anyone to install it. I must have called half-a-dozen places/plumbers. I was lucky the store took it back and gave me full credit (actually the unit never left the store--I had intended for the plumber to go by the store and pick it up on the way over to my house). I did find a local guy who specializes in tankless installation, but he required a credit check...and voila! Now I keep a ton of old towels around the door of the hot-water closet!

[Lasher]

92. Can't you get installation through Lowe's?

Installation is available at every Lowe's store I've ever been in.

[KansDem]

98. Yeah, Lowe's gave me a name to contact

So I called him and arranged for him to come by the house. He did and talked to my wife (I was at work). I then talked to him and he said essentially that he couldn't do the job do to the configuration of the plumbing and venting pipes. He told me to talk to the guy at Lowe's and led me to believe that he could do the job, so I called that guy who told me he could be fired for taking on work of that nature. So then I called the major plumbing companies in KC and none could do the job. I found one guy who would come out to see if he could do the job, but he required a $35 fee (could not be applied to installation fee) and he needed the specs beforehand, but the specs were in the box with the water heater at Lowe's. Finally, I searched online and found one guy that specializes in tank-less installation, but used a particular brand of water heater that wasn't Bosch. So I called Lowe's and canceled my Bosch and tried to go with the specialist, but didn't clear credit so now I'm thinking I might try to have the job done with my tax return.

For the time being, we turn the hot water on and off for our baths from the water heater, and do a lot of heating of water on the stove for other purposes, ie. dish washing.

I suppose one day I'll look back on all this and laugh...

[Lasher]

100. Sounds like your old water heater is gas.

Have you considered a new electric heater (not tankless)? Venting might be what's giving the plumbers gas (pun intended).

[KansDem]

104. My wife and I talked about going electric...

Now we have a gas water heater and gas furnace. And we have a fireplace with an ample supply of firewood. The only thing I worry about are the seemingly increasing occurrences of electrical power outages that have plagued KC in recent years. The most recent was a microburst a couple months ago that took down power lines and left us without power for 36 hours. Although we didn't have electricity, we did have hot water at least (coffee, hot chocolate, soup, baths, etc.). I'm just afraid if we went all-electric, we wouldn't have anything during these power outages.

I could just be parnoid, though...

[Lasher]

107. If I may be so bold,

You should revisit that as an option. After all, you are going with an expensive tankless setup and I do believe they are electric anyway. I have a gas furnace here and I went with an electric water heater to minimize complications of installation. I have not so far regretted it on account of power outages and I live in the rugged WV hills where utilities can be out relatively often.

Good luck on this and I hope your financial problems are swept away by some good fortune in the near future.

Lasher

[Waiting For Everyman]

61. My water tank went out on me last Spring...

If you can, have a plumber or someone at least come over and put a shut off valve on the intake pipe, or you'll be mopping up water every day. I mopped up the floor for 3 months before I figured out to at least have that done. I don't know why shut off valves aren't required with all water heater installations. Meanwhile of course, no hot water for three months along with the flooding and mopping. Same reason, I couldn't get financed (due to medical bills). After all of that, at long last a family member finally advanced it to me.

I think such necessary things should be buyable through utility companies and subsidized if necessary. That used to be how it was done in the past, but of course anything that would help the non-wealthy has been done away with.

[wuushew]

89. Have you tried everywhere for a loan?

If you factor in the cost savings, even a loan of 20% would be break even. The percentage could be higher if this tankless heater qualifies for a $300 Federal energy efficiency credit.

Maybe a church, family or friends could lend you the money. Private parties can enter into legally binding contracts. Contact a notary.

[jmowreader]

7. Two grand for a water heater?

Are you heating your home and your water with the same boiler?

[Lasher]

9. Maybe it's made 100% out of copper.

I have a friend who has one like that. :-)

[KansDem]

11. Tankless...(nt)

[jmowreader]

53. Okay, that makes sense...

those are very expensive.

[seabeyond]

19. no. i worked my ass of for my credit record after in youth fucking it off. clear everyone

then i have to start all over and i am too old. also i dont DESERVE, lol, to be wiped clean

[tammywammy]

22. Um, no thanks

I'm 28 and have a credit score in the high 700s. I've worked hard to get it there and to keep it there.


As for your water heater, why not replace it now with a cheaper tank version and save up the $2000 and get it replaced with a tankless one next year?

[michreject]

77. Because that makes sense nt

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KansDem]

26. To all of you who said, "no, thanks..."

My taxes went to the fuck-up financial intuitions that gave you your "high credit scores." Tell me why this is fair...

[tammywammy]

30. Life isn't always fair

I'm sorry you haven't learned that lesson early on like I did.

I have zero credit card debt. I've saved for purchases. I used my income tax refund (b/c I didn't adjust my withholding to include the university tuition I pay each term) to purchase a new fridge to replace the 15 year old one I have.

I live in a house that's over 50 years old, and needs renovations, but since I pay cash for everything, it's getting done slowly. Oh and since it's old and out of date, it was in my price range and I could afford it in the first place.

So yeah, I work hard to have a good credit score (in the high 700s) at 28.

[KansDem]

35. You sound a lot like me when I was 28

That was before a couple of major health problems that I hope you never experience. If you should be that unfortunate, I guarantee it will affect your "high 700s" But then, I've been told on this thread to "grow up" that "life isn't fair."

[tammywammy]

37. Sorry you've had such health problems

Why not just save and purchase the water heater outright instead of getting a loan?

[KansDem]

47. Sure, meanwhile my kitchen is filling up with water...

First a trickle, now a little more constant.

But I'll start saving right now! I may need a snorkel to wash the dishes but I should have the dough in about a year...

[tammywammy]

49. Why not replace it with a cheaper tank version now instead of one that's more expensive

[dajoki]

56. Save?!!? How can anyone...

living paycheck to paycheck save anything. I am in the same boat as you, when I was 28 I was married(still am to the same woman) with two kids, a great job and good credit. Then one day in my late 40s everything fell apart, when I had an accident that left me disabled, and the medical problems started piling up. My wife lost her job, my youngest daughter got sick and had to move back home and we almost lost our home because the only income we had was my SSDI. All this happened in a period of about four years. My wife found a job after about three years and my daughter has recovered, but the damage has been done, financially, we will never get out of debt, we are threatened every month with a utility being shut off because our mortgage must come first.

[KansDem]

58. I sympathize with you...

I had a heart attack and was on medical leave for five weeks. No pay. Then I was on half-time for another couple of months. Some pay. But now I pay my mortgage one month late, albeit regularly. However, that's not good enough for the banks/credit rating agencies. I'm still a deadbeat. All I want is a second chance. Hell, most criminals get second chances...

But, as some on this thread have observed, "life's not fair..."

[dajoki]

59. And I with you...

people don't ask to be put in situations like that and it is no fun, but some people here think that we are all having a picnic on the government's money. I wouldn't wish this on anyone!!

[michreject]

78. If you can't save for it

How are you going to finance it and make payments?

[tammywammy]

81. shush you

:P

[KansDem]

99. Save for it?

Oh, I can save for it, but we're not talking about some flat-scree TV or trip to Bermuda. We're talking about a slow leak that may get worse as time passes. Yeah, I could save for it, but I really need to replace it pronto or otherwise I'll be "saving" to replace the floor and joists at some time in the future...

[Telly Savalas]

88. Paying off a credit card is more expensive than saving.

Somebody who can't afford to save for something certainly can't afford to buy it with a credit card and then pay off the purchase price plus the usurious interest.

[slackmaster]

31. People with good credit scores have worked for years to build them up

By being responsible.

Tell me why this is fair...

Who ever told you life was supposed to be "fair"?

Grow up.

[KansDem]

33. "Who ever told you life was supposed to be fair?"

I don't see any reason to bail out financial institutions. They fucked up. After all, if life isn't fair, then let the financial institutions go under...

Savvy?

[slackmaster]

34. Hey, we agree on something!

Yes, financial institutions that are in trouble should be allowed to fail if they can't bail themselves out.

:hi:

I feel the same way about individuals.

[KansDem]

38. Unfortunately, those with the power and clout think otherwise...

Financial institutions? No problem!
Individuals? SOL

But then, as you said, "life isn't fair..."

[wartrace]

32. Credit scores are not issued by financial institutions.

Credit scores are compiled by the three major credit reporting agencies. What gave us "high credit scores" is paying back borrowed money in accordance with the terms we agreed to.

[KansDem]

43. Yeah, I know how it works...

I got a month behind on my mortgage payment a year ago due to health problems (missed work). I've been paying it regularly, but always a month behind. Any one can see that in my payment history. Just a month behind. Just looking for a second chance...

Good health to you! :hi:

[tammywammy]

45. Have you discussed with your bank if they would just tag that one missed payment on to the end

of the loan?

[KansDem]

52. That will be my next step...(nt)

[Occulus]

60. Well, sort of.

Those "terms we agreed to" can change at the will of the issuer. It's the only form of contract I'm aware of that's capable of this.

One major and immediately necessary reform would be to abolish that capability. They should be stuck with the terms they issued to you, and should not not be capable of altering them without your consent.

That includes raising interest rates due to a missed payment, by the way.

Another reform I can think of would be to decouple unrelated items from one's credit score. You should not have to have good credit to rent an apartment, for example (how fucking cruel is that for the person who lost their home due to a medical bankruptcy?), and missing a utility bill payment by a few days should not be capable of dinging your credit score.

There are other things I would fix. Life may not be fair, but that is absolutely not any kind of good reason to refuse to try and make it more fair.

[Waiting For Everyman]

64. I agree.

Just because we allow these practices now, that doesn't mean they have to be allowed or ought to be.

How about this one - car insurance companies charging more for a low credit score? WTH does that have to do with how many accidents or tickets a person has? Or with how many claims have been paid out? Lots of people with good credit are lousy drivers, yet the poor who are good drivers pay for THEM. This all very one-way, and it's always to justify overcharging the non-wealthy, logic of it be damned.

[fascisthunter]

40. .

[dysfunctional press]

48. what does one have to do with the other...?

:shrug:

[KansDem]

54. It's a vicious circle...

Screw up with one and you've screwed up with the other...

[Thothmes]

71. I got the high credit score because I paid back the people

that lent me money. What is unfair about that.

[wartrace]

28. No credit history is almost as bad as having bad credit.

Up until I was 40 years old I did not have any credit history, I always paid cash & rented. After I bought a home I ran into a "cash flow crunch" and decided to get a loan. I was quoted a 30% apr for a small 2500 dollar loan. I did not take that loan & did without until I had cash. I then decided to refinance my owner held mortgage to a five year loan with a major lender, I ended up paying 7.99% for that one. Now I have a credit score of 720 after five years of using & paying off credit. I can qualify for some of the lowest rates if needed.

I would hate to go back to 30% APR due to a lack of credit history again despite the fact I do not intend to borrow ever again. It took too long to get here to do it over again.

[Gormy Cuss]

55. Not if everyone has no credit history.

If everyone's credit history were reset then it wouldn't matter. That's not going to happen because we have a whole industry devoted to developing more and more uses for this metric as a judgment of your worth as a person.

Your example is a good one for exposing the fallacy of relying on credit histories as a primary means of establishing creditworthiness. No credit history and 40 years old should send up an alarm flag. Rather, if someone has managed to pay the rent for 20 years and can provide proof of at least the recent history plus has a verifiable income then that person deserves to start with a GOOD credit rating, not get dinged for it.

[wartrace]

65. Paying cash should send up an alarm flag?

I paid everything on time rent wise, it was just never reported to any credit agency.

[Gormy Cuss]

67. I meant "should not" --too late to edit.

The fact is that it does send up an alarm flag the way credit worthiness is done now.

[Waiting For Everyman]

63. I think there should be two separate credit report systems.

Those at the bottom need a "protected zone" to ever recover or improve. We make those in legitimate hardships compete with those who have no problems. That causes all of the banks' profits to be paid for by the high rates charged to the poor, who are already struggling with other kinds of crisis in their lives too. In a "sheltered tier" there should be no penalty for medical costs or student loans when unemployed - that kind of thing. There should also be subsidized loan programs for cars etc., to those who really are credit worthy, but have low scores. There should also be no sharking from collectors allowed, but rather realistic payment programs. We allow no recovery from personal disaster in the system we have. If we don't allow people to recover then our economy as a whole will not improve.

Those who have great credit and like the "market system" competition with the sharks could still have it.

[AngryAmish]

66. Because not everyone is as credit worthy as the next

Some people are smarter than others. Some people are taller. Some people are just lucky.

Life is not fair and it is never meant to be.

[earth mom]

73. WTF? So some people are more equal than others? Been reading Animal Farm lately?

:puke:

[TwixVoy]

82. No not at all

it just means that some people are too damn able to let themselves be manipulated in to bad situations, make bad choices themselves, or otherwise screw up financially that we have ended up where we are today.

In fact if you are worried about your credit not enabling you to get loans you have already screwed up pretty bad. The moment you start trying to live your life on borrowed money the bank owns your ass. STOP GETTING CREDIT CARDS. Don't worry if your credit sucks - be glad you aren't tied down in debt.

[earth mom]

83. There's nothing wrong with giving people a fresh start. The credit system FAVORS the banks not the

consumer. That's what I'm speaking to. It's set up so people will have to pay more and more with every misstep, with every bit of bad luck. It's not always bad choices that cause credit scores to go down as you seem to think it is.

The way the credit system is set up you are screwed if you aren't perfect every single minute for your entire life. And it's complete and utter bullshit to expect people to be perfect and then punish them if they are not. Hell, even insurance companies use credit reports for auto insurance. Like what the hell does credit have to do with a persons driving ability?! :wtf:



That said, I do think people have been robbed of freedom because of credit cards and debt-so I agree that it's better to pay cash as you go instead of "charging it" for the "wants" in life verses the "needs".

However-you can't buy a house without a large loan, nor can you easily fix or repair that house without loans either. So some debt is a necessary "evil".

[seabeyond]

84. lets see, take my brother who hasnt paid back a single thing evah....

does rent to own for a couple decades and always gets it repoed. bounces checks. doesnt pay credit card.

anyone would be a fool to loan him money, .... or a sister that know really a "loan, borrow" is a gift....

[Occam Bandage]

86. Some people are more likely to pay back their debts than others are. This is an actuarial fact. nt

[earth mom]

72. It's an excellent idea-but heads will explode at the mere thought because

gawd forbid the government do anything nice for the peons of this country.

edited to add: and gawd forbid some people in this country allow others to be equal to them. :puke:

[seabeyond]

85. have you read any of the posts. it is a stupid idea. a lot of us worked decades to get a good

credit rating, and you are saying we should just give up all the work we have done over the years to have what we do. then.... since we are old, by the time it is good again we are.... dead.

[earth mom]

109. You'll be singing a different tune if you screw up, lose a job or get ill & they screw you over

and sock it to ya.

FYI:
The credit rating system is BULLSHIT and set up for perfection-which doesn't exist in todays world.

The credit rating system is set up for the well off who aren't living paycheck to paycheck.

The credit rating system is set up to fuck the working class and poor over.

[taught_me_patience]

74. This is a very poor idea

because everybody would pay higher interest rates. Banks would have no way to assess credit risk.

[Bill McBlueState]

75. My credit rating's pretty high

But I would take your plan further: let's abolish the credit reporting bureaus. No private company should get to amass an all-encompassing file about me and then make me pay to see it.

[slackmaster]

95. That would raise the cost of borrowing for everyone

Dumb idea, really dumb.

[Bill McBlueState]

96. Sure, lenders need to be able to assess the risk associated with each borrower

What I'm really objecting to is the way that secretive private entities get to control this process. I shouldn't have to pay Experian to find out my own creditworthiness according to a secret, proprietary formula they have. This function is more appropriate for the public sector.

[TwixVoy]

80. The lending game is over

YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BORROW MONEY ANY MORE TO LIVE YOUR LIFE! Too many people don't get that yet. No little dream scenarios to enable you to borrow more will happen. Get used to life with out credit like most of the country is going to be forced to do for the next 20 years. We are going to have to live poor - deal with it.

[Occam Bandage]

87. I don't think the solution to the credit problem

is to make it so that lenders are utterly incapable of determining the risk of their loans. All that would happen then is that nobody would lend anyone anything, and we'd be in the same situation we were right before we passed that enormous TARP bill.

[kiranon]

106. Curing my brother's credit would be a disaster. Only his bad credit keeps him

from charging still more that he cannot pay for. With 2 bankruptcies under his belt and 3 failed marriages, new credit won't help. He charged every card he got in the mail up to the max in his name and his wives names without any sense of obligation to pay anything. It is a form of addiction - can't stop shopping. He earned his credit history and it protects society from his addiction. If his credit history were cured, he would go forth and spend but never pay so it wouldn't stimulate anything but debt collectors who wouldn't recover any more than the last ones did. For those with medical bills, the bankruptcy code should be amended to its prior status so their debts can be forgiven but not a blanket forgiveness for every credit history. Even my brother is happy that he cannot get credit. It stops his addiction.

[TwilightGardener]

108. Hell no. I paid my bills. Why should I have to start over?