Cops Are Out Of Control

[JFN1]

We have got to start doing something about this kind of thing...

The tape was locked up for three months until a judge ordered it be released to the public.

It shows King County Sheriff's Deputy Paul Schene getting physical with the teenage car theft suspect last November.

"The girl is 15 years old, that's so uncalled for," Rich McAnich said.

He also watched the tape, which shows Schene in a verbal confrontation with the girl in a SeaTac holding cell and then pushing and slamming her to the ground. He then appears to punch her twice.

"Then he pulls her up by her hair, after she's already handcuffed? What's the point of that?" McAnich said.

The video can be seen http://news.google.com/news?pz=1&topic=n">here. This is a 15 year old girl. And this cop brutalizes her. And his partner in the cell with him, who watched the whole thing? HE NEVER EVEN REPORTED IT.

I know something about cops, personally. I have two in the family.

My brother is a former city cop. He used to brag to me about how he was issued license plates for his personal vehicle "that only cops can get" so he was free to abuse traffic laws with no consequence. He bragged when he was first showing them to me of how he had made the five hour trip to visit our folks in just over 3 and 1/2 hours, and got only waves and thumbs up from the cops he encountered along the way.

It pissed me off.

I asked my brother, "How can you exercise any moral authority to pull people over, if you break the traffic laws yourself?"

He pulled out his gun and badge and showed them to me. "This is all the authority I need," he told me.

My brother later ran for chief of police, lost, and is now a city councilman. I can tell you other stories of his abuses, but they are mild compared to other cops. Not excusing him - he makes me sick - and we no longer speak, in part because I have never been able to let go of my anger toward his abuses as a cop.

Another cop in the family, my uncle, was a State cop. He recently retired from the State police, and is now a city cop. About ten years ago, he got into a fight with his brother, my other uncle. He wrote his brother an angry letter on State Police stationary, then, for some reason, used the station's notary public's stamp to stamp the bottom of the letter. No signature from the notary - just the stamp. This is a Class D felony. His brother turned him in, tried to have him fired - he got promoted instead. He laughs about the story now - he re-told it two Thanksgiving dinners ago, laughing his ass off the whole time...

And I am certain you remember the kid out West on New Year's Eve who was shot in the back while unarmed, face down, and handcuffed. There are probably dozens - hundreds - of stories like this that are never told...

WE NEED TO STOP THIS. WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS.

Police brutality and over-reaching have become an epidemic in this country. I should not be afraid of the police - no one but a criminal should be. Yet I cringe every time a cop passes me; I try to look inconspicuous and small and nonthreatening when I am in the presence of cops (and I'm 6', 215 pounds - not easy for me). I haven't had as much as a parking ticket in over 20 years - yet I am afraid of the police. They have the power to change your life on a whim - and this, is not freedom...

Cops need to understand they are not our MASTERS - but public servants. I said before we need to do something about this problem. But what? What can we do to make America safe FROM IT'S OWN POLICE FORCES?????

I don't want to be afraid of the police - but when I see them abuse 15 year old girls, kill unarmed partiers on New Year's Eve, or overstep their Constitutional authority repeatedly and willfully, I am afraid. Very, very afraid. And the scariest part - I think cops want us to be afraid of them. I think they love it.

[Liberal_in_LA]

1. kick

[geckosfeet]

2. Don't tar all cops with this brush. My beef is that this bastard will probably

get off with a slap on the weenie. There is no incentive for them to NOT pull stunts like this if no one holds them accountable.

As for you brother, he sounds like a repuglican.

[JFN1]

4. He is

and a Rush ditto-head. The last gift I got from him was a Rush Limbaugh book, about 8 years ago. I used it as kindling for our fireplace (and no, I'm not kidding - can you think of a better use for a Rush book?).

And I know there are "good" cops out there - there has to be. But I have not yet met one in my life. Not one.

So you tell me - how do I identify a "good" cop? How about the cop in the video who didn't brutalize the girl - yet didn't turn the abusing cop in? Is he a "good" cop?

[geckosfeet]

25. That's the problem. The misguided code of silence. But I think you are

right. If we knew 1% of the shit that went on we would be horrified.

As for the rUsh "book" - kindling is a good idea. Bird cage and kitty litter pans is another.

[tanngrisnir3]

30. Sorry, that's just fantasy BS. There is no 99% the public doesn't know about

but TV and movies sure like to portray it as such.

It ain't.

[geckosfeet]

38. Errr,,, OK. Guess thats that.

[backscatter712]

3. Authoritarian cop-defenders coming in 3...2...1...

After all, they're strip-searching us, taking our blood at DUI checkpoints, shooting us in the back of the head, slamming around people half their size for our own protection.

We have nothing to fear from them. :sarcasm:

[rug]

6. I'm waiting for them to demand a semen sample when canvassing for a sex crime.

What the hell, I have nothing to hide.

[Shakespeare]

8. And women everywhere are having litters of 8 babies--it's an epidemic, I tells ya!

Ah, the logical hazards of taking isolated incidents and using them out of context to support absurd ideas...

I'm not an authoritarian cop defender. I just dislike stupid posts.

[Captain Hilts]

12. Thank you. nt

[Truth2Tell]

15. I'm willing to let those cops off the hook

who have been active and outspoken in purging their own ranks of the thugs and abusers. Those who have not actively done so share the blame for the problem. And that's 99% of them.

[tanngrisnir3]

17. Speaking from professional experience, that is incredibly hard to do.

And no, it's not 99% of cops who won't work to get rid of the corrupt ones.

But what happened to Frank Serpico, although to a lesser extent, still goes on. There are brotherhoods within the brotherhood of blue, but in the long run every department is crippled by bad cops.

[backscatter712]

24. Don't cops still derisively call the "goody-two-shoes" "Serpicos"? n/t

[tanngrisnir3]

29. I've never heard anyone say that. There's simply too great a liability

nowadays for the city and department, money-wise, to keep corrupt/abusive cops on the force.

Not only is it bad for cops when it comes to the public attitude, which is critical to getting police work done, but it, for example, cost the city where I started out several million dollars when a known 'beater' from another department was hired on and then, surprise, surprise, he beat the shit out of a handcuffed prisoner. City hasn't made the same mistake again, and I can think of no other ones that would tolerate that kind of crap.

[Truth2Tell]

31. Well, I've observed it here in Seattle.

Can't find a single cop willing to speak out in favor civilian review boards or stricter punishments for other bad cops. Certainly not the Union. Maybe a few former cops but that's about it. Those who put that notion of "brotherhood" above their duty to the public are just as guilty as the cop in that video. And I stand by my estimation of 99% on that score.

[tanngrisnir3]

32. Your estimation if you're not a cop, is based on vapor.

I agree that those who hold to their own, private brotherhoods are the ones that must be gotten rid of; that's why I posted that.

But unless you're a cop or work with them, your estimation is just empty conjecture.

[Truth2Tell]

34. My estimation of how many of them speak out

in public about the bad guys in their midst isn't conjecture. If they were doing that I'd know about it. If they don't take a stand they are complicit. Where are the organizations of cops standing against this shit? Where are the public condemnations from responsible cops? Where is the Union on this? Will they stand up for this victim? Or others? No. As usual they will defend this guy. And all the rest of the force will stand by silently. Bank on it.

[tanngrisnir3]

35. They tend to keep silent until there is a complete investigation, a trial...

and a guilty verdict.

Seeing as it's union, and their lives depend on each other, silence until such a time does not equal assent.

There's nothing to bank on there.

[Truth2Tell]

36. There are plenty of cases in which we've already had trials

and convictions. Yet the cops still stay silent on those as well. Again I ask, where is the public organization of police officers working against this type of behavior? Answer: You know and I know there isn't one.

[rug]

28. Good point. Bad cops are as rare as humans giving birth to eight babies at a time.

I dislike stupid posts too.

[Threedifferentones]

37. Well Shakespeare I agree that saying "cops are generally corrupt"

and then talking about 4 corrupt cops you know is pretty silly. However, I do not dismiss the point as invalid, even though the OP's argument is just that.

I look at it this way:

I know the value of our justice system. I am glad I have never really worried about having to forcibly defend myself or my belongings on a daily basis, and I thank cops for that. Nonetheless, it seems certain that the police profession attracts more bullies than helpful people. Moreover, this is not an accident, it is the way our leaders want it. Although our justice system keeps many of us safe, it also exists largely to maintain America's gross disparity of wealth and power.

If police were genuinely nice on the whole, they would not be much use to rich people when the riots start, because the truth is legal and moral are not the same, except for authoritarian assholes. In case you have not noticed, it is a rare cop who is willing to ponder where the law ends and morality begins. For them might makes right and morality consists of rules. Moreover, if you are poor, you had better accept the fact that a cops word IS LAW, or you will be in trouble. Our justice system is set up to treat our Madoffs with great respect, and our poor people as utterly expendable.

One time a highway patrolman stopped at night and helped me get my car running. Another time a Nashville cop pulled over a friend of mine and found a small bag of weed in the car. The cop said he doesn't like ruining people's lives over something so stupid, made my buddy dump it out in the gutter, told him to keep that shit in doors, and let him go. There are plenty of helpful cops, I know.

Still, I think the nature of police work attracts more bullies than boy scouts, if ya know that I mean. It appeals to people who like having authority over others and do not cringe at the thought of violence. It appeals to people who have no exceptional talent but want to DEMAND respect from others, and who do not feel a need to think about or approve of the work they do. All laws must be enforced, right or wrong.

I know policing also appeals to people who want to keep others safe, but that seems like a rarer breed of person to me. I have met many more assholes than saints.

Even though this negative view cannot describe every cop, it describes the profession generally, IMO.

[SoxFan]

21. Juvenille cop-bashers coming in 3...2...1...

[Orrex]

23. You're right. Every cop is doing all of those things, so we should condemn all of them equally

My car was rear-ended by a guy from Pakistan: should I therefore conclude that Pakistanis are all bad drivers?

[Marrah_G]

44. So if we don't agree that all cops are bad- does that make us "authoritarian defenders"?

If so then you can count me as one.

[tanngrisnir3]

5. If you think there are hundreds of cases of restrained suspects being shot...

Then could you please back it up with actual data, and not speculation?

As far as police brutality becoming 'epidemic', could you also supply some support of that that isn't anecdotal as well?

Thanks.

Oh, your brother lied to you. Cops are issued special registrations so that when/if someone were to run their plates, it would come back 'restricted' so that their addressses/personal information could not be abused by those looking to do the officer hard. And, yes, that's happened in the past and why the policy was put into place. There are no special plates issued to police officers for private use.s

Since your brother sounds unhinged and power-happy, it's a good thing he no longer is a cop.

[JFN1]

9. How can I back something up with statistics that is not reported?

Do you believe that all rape is reported? Or child abuse? The girl in this story has not yet reported this event, or even filed a claim about it. So if the judge had not ordered the tape released, would we ever have known about it?

I think this is healthy speculation, and I don't apologize for it. If it happened to this girl, and she didn't report it - how often does it happen? It seems you are speculating that it does not happen, while I am speculating it does. Since there is no way to determine who is right, why not accept my speculation as speculation, and worry about the problem I am addressing, rather than the means I use to address it?

[tanngrisnir3]

13. Hundreds of people each year, in custody, restrained and shot?

There would be no way to cover that all up. To many reports to be falsified, to many victims to complain, too many police beat reporters looking for the story.

And rape and child abuse don't occur at the instigation of police, so your analogy is false.

Why don't I accept your speculation? Because of professional experience in law enforcement, knowledge of what does and doesn't happen in police departments and understanding of simple statistics.

No one, myself included, is asking you to apologize for speculating, but your claims about this being some sort of covered-up epidemic come across as Chicken-Little histrionics until you can actually substantiated something other than a few cases.

The problem you are addressing is indeed worth addressing and it exists, but not in the manner or degree that you have chosen to present it.

[liberalmuse]

7. My nephew and his friends were harassed by 3 cops last weekend.

At 3 different times during the day. These are high school kids. Their crime? Passing out food to homeless teens downtown. The cops kept going up to them and telling them they needed a permit. When they asked what kind of permit, not a single cop could tell them the name of it. Not a single one. My nephew and his friends ended up having a 'picnic' at the park (which one cop said belonged to the city, and was not public property) and inviting the homeless teens over so the cops would stop harassing them.

My nephew and his friends are going to help the residents of Nicklesville move to a new location this Thursday. (It's a homeless camp here in Seattle). Hopefully they won't be arrested.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. Both my kids have been harrassed by cops many times

One of the worst was when my kid was a passenger in a car at 1 am coming home from a gig (he is a musician). The driver pulled into a gas station just as it was closing. The lights were turned out as he pulled in. So he drives through and got back on the street. Cop pulled him over because he thought this was 'suspicious'. Made all the kids (there were 4 of them) get out of the car, asked if anyone had been drinking or had taken any drugs. All were over 21 so the drinking question was out of line (except for the driver).

So the kids said no they hadn't been drinking or drugging and the cop asked well what are you doing out at this time of night and they said they were musicians on their way home from a gig. Cop said well where are your instruments and they said at the gig since we go back tomorrow night. And the guitar player said his guitar was in the trunk. Cop said no don't open the trunk I will just call for a warrant. Kids asked what for and cop didn't answer but asked if any of them had any drugs on them. Kids said no. Cop said if any of you are lying you are all going to jail. Kids said no we aren't lying. Cop said well I am going to call and have the drug dog come and sniff you and your car. And if even one of you is holding you are all going to jail. So he handcuffed all the kids, called for backup and called for the drug dog.

Backup arrives. That cop asks them all the same questions. They hold the kids for about a half hour and then tell them well the drug dog is on another case so you can all go now.

For driving through a gas station.

Still pisses me off and it happened a couple years ago.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

10. Doctors are out of control, lawyers are out of control, judges are out of control

Obviously, because it's only the bad stories we see posted about them.

Fear everything and hide in your home, the only place it's safe. Unless of course you get one of those bad meter readers from the electric company or postal workers who break into your home and rape you or kill you randomly.

[stray cat]

11. If I'm in trouble I'm glad to see the police - I will try to avoid fast scary gestures however

[arcadian]

14. S & M loving cop defenders coming in 5... 4... 3... 2...

It's amazing how many people on this board defend cops only because, their father, brother, uncle are cops. Glad to seethe OP doesn't hold family loyalty above the real law.

[backscatter712]

27. C'mon, you've got nothin' to hide!!! What're you afraid of?!

Oh, and your little boy, we're gonna have to search him.

[Iggo]

16. Good cops cover for bad cops...

...making them all bad cops.

[tanngrisnir3]

18. No, not to my experience they don't.

Tell me, do you have personal experience with this?

[Iggo]

19. Delete.

Not worth it.

[LooseWilly]

22. The cops have helped me out a number of times.

Like, once, when I was driving a taxi in Oakland. I had a fare that ran and locked herself in her apartment when she was supposedly going in to get the remaining $20 she owed me on the fare...
When I noticed that her downstairs neighbor was a drug dealer (weed and crack I think, not certain exactly what) it occurred to me that I could call the police after all.
Of course, I knew that they'd never actually come around and do anything... but when I started telling the dealer neighbor that I'd called the police, and started telling all of his customers too, well... let's just say weed and crack customers are as paranoid about the cops as the rest of us.
Long story short, using the (admittedly hollow) threat of the police was enough for me to shakedown the dealer neighbor for the remaining $20.

The moral of the story is, we citizens just need to learn to be creative in order to make our police useful in our everyday lives.

Hell, I've even met two or three police-people that were actually reasonable people. So we shouldn't make the mistake of allowing 98% of our personal experiences color our judgment. Remember, until a statistician has examined your data, it's all just "anecdotal" information...

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

26. You should have left those poor people alone

Take the $20 loss, you authoritarian bully! :sarcasm:

[LooseWilly]

33. For one sweet moment, I was in bed with The Man.

and I was just using Him...

I remember one other time driving that taxi. I was double parked two car-lengths back from a UPS truck, waiting on an old lady in a shopping district while she got some chocolates or something. I was just sitting there, when suddenly I looked up and saw a bicycle cop staring down at me.

"You're going to have to move. You're blocking traffic." he told me.
"I'm waiting on a passenger. If I start circling this block, the meter's going to triple, at least..." I tried to explain reasonably.
"Well..." he answered, hesitating momentarily in a shockingly un-policeman-like way, thinking about what had been said to him. "... you're blocking traffic..." he finally repeated.
I looked up, and pointed at the UPS truck that would still be blocking the lane, even if I were to move. "Blocking the lane any more than he is?"
And, for the first time in my life, and the last time too, a policeman admitted... he was wrong !! "Hmm, I guess you're right. Nevermind."
And he pedalled away.

To this day, I marvel at having been witness to this miracle !!

[MattBaggins]

50. So you are bragging about criminal behavior?

You stole money from someone because another person had stolen from you?

[DailyGrind51]

39. In Chicago, we had to pay $19 million to settle law suits stemming from

the torturing of suspects by one cop, Jon Burge, now retired on a generous pension.

[MrSlayer]

40. No, I'm not afraid of the police at all.

All we ever see on this site is policemen being shown in the worst possible light. Never once have I seen a story about a cop murdered in the line of duty or anything about the tens of thousands of cops who make righteous arrests and get scum off the streets every day. Certainly there are bad cops or cops who go over the line but it is nowhere near the majority of them. For every one of these incidents the cop haters pull out there are ten thousand other incidents of heroism and justice that we never hear about because "that's their job". You cringe when you see a cop? Really? Well then you have a fucking paranoia problem. Pretending all police act like gestapo thugs is ridiculously naive, insulting and stupid. Yeah they're just going to jump out of their cars and beat you to death for absolutely no reason at all. Give me a break.

No, I don't fear the police one bit. I'm glad to have them around. I'd like to see what the pusillanimous punks who whine and cry about an extra punch or kick a cop puts on a criminal would do if they weren't around anymore. They'd be whining and crying while the predators of society mercilessly rape and kill them is what.

Blaming all police for the criminal actions of a few is just idiotic and considering the amount of irrational fear you are proclaiming you really need to get yourself a security blanket or something.

[d206s]

41. Wanna guess what board this cop posts on ?

I'd bet the farm this cop posts on the CU board.
Charter member, no doubt !

[Marrah_G]

42. Cops don't scare me at all

Most are good a few are bad.

The bad ones get the press.

[Ohio Joe]

43. No - Cops do not scare me

I've had more then my share of run ins with the police. NYC cops, NE Jersey cops from Newark. I've never been treated in any way that I felt was inappropriate or that caused me to fear for my safety. I know bad cops are out there but I believe there are a lot more good cops then bad.

[krabigirl]

45. Cops= domestic terrorists, in most cases, sadly.

[Shakespeare]

47. Really?

Got any data to back that up?

[anonymous171]

46. DU has a love-hate relationship with cops.

On anti-gun threads, the consensus is that you should "wait for the police to arrive" if you are in danger. If they are pulling depraved shit like this though, suddenly cops become evil, corrupt, and untrustworthy malefactors.

[blindpig]

48. Bringing the war back home.

What's a Marine freshly discharged gonna do for work, particularly in these times?

What difference the streets of Faludja and your town? He already knows the drill.

This is going on all over.

[psychmommy]

49. there are good cops and bad cops.

i am from a small town. the chief of police knew us kids and our parents. he wrote a job recommendation for me and helped me get my job 16 years ago. i later went back to my small hometown and was pulled over because i had something hanging from my rearview mirror. i was treated like a criminal. new cops with different attitudes toward the public. i moved to another small town with a decent pd. i haven't been harassed and my daughter has a positive relationship with some of the officers through the school. i work with some law enforcement and i take trainings with some law enforcement. i have relatives that are cops. there are good and bad in all segments of society.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

51. This is not

even fair.

Is it really all this black and white? All cops are bad. We should all fear the cops.

I live within a mile and a half of a major police station. I've been here for 10 years. Drive past the station 4 times a day. I am immune to being afraid of them. I have not once been pulled over by one of these police. Every day, yes, every day that I drive that route, I am flanked by local police. I do not even notice except to occasionally glance to see how far over the dumb assed 35 mph limit I am exceeding.

It probably helps that I know a lot of people in law enforcement - They all have scary guns and badges and not ONE of them has "special plates" on their personal cars. (I did know a LAPD guy many years ago who did have some special plates and did brag about it so I know there are idiots who abuse their power.)

It probably makes a difference that my husband is in law enforcement and has been a Democrat since birth. My husband took an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution - That is what he does. No one gets hit, beaten or abused here. To be clear my husband is not a police officer but works in law enforcement. Some of his friends have driven him home and have delighted the neighborhood kids by letting them run the siren and lights. My kids know that if they are lost, they should trust a police person to help them.

I am not an idiot - I know there are plenty of assholes who abuse their power. But do I paint all police with this broad brush? Fuck no.

There are politicians, judges, doctors and attorneys who abuse their power too - are all of them bad? Fuck no.

Of course I want the bad ones culled from the herd. Just like I want the baby killer dogs culled from the pack. Do I want to kill all of the dogs? Fuck no.