So You’re Dead? That Won’t Stop the Debt Collector (pass this info around)

[Are_grits_groceries]

The banks need another bailout and countless homeowners cannot handle their mortgage payments, but one group is paying its bills: the dead.

Dozens of specially trained agents work on the third floor of DCM Services here, calling up the dear departed’s next of kin and kindly asking if they want to settle the balance on a credit card or bank loan, or perhaps make that final utility bill or cellphone payment.

The people on the other end of the line often have no legal obligation to assume the debt of a spouse, sibling or parent. But they take responsibility for it anyway.

“I am out of work now, to be honest with you, and money is very tight for us,” one man declared on a recent phone call after he was apprised of his late mother-in-law’s $280 credit card bill. He promised to pay $15 a month.

Dead people are the newest frontier in debt collecting, and one of the healthiest parts of the industry. Those who dun the living say that people are so scared and so broke it is difficult to get them to cough up even token payments.

Collecting from the dead, however, is expanding. Improved database technology is making it easier to discover when estates are opened in the country’s 3,000 probate courts, giving collectors an opportunity to file timely claims. But if there is no formal estate and thus nothing to file against, the human touch comes into play.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/04/business/04dead.html?_r=1&hp

Assholes...!

[qanda]

1. That was pretty tough to read

Especially when it talked about the widow who could only pay $5 a month.

[Are_grits_groceries]

2. I couldn't do that job. No way! nt

[dipsydoodle]

3. Don't some issues

fill you with disgust.

Chances are that this is all being done on a commission basis. I hope those earning that commission sleep well - NOT.

[Solly Mack]

4. "specially trained agents" SNORT

disgusting

[radfringe]

5. We need an address...

years ago a friend of mine's EX-husband died.

A few months after his death, she received a call from the IRS looking for him. Seems he was claiming the children as dependents despite that as part of the divorce agreement she was able to claim the kids in exchange for receiving no child support from him.

(yeah, I know the law has changed, but at the time - this was acceptable practice)

She told the IRS he was dead. They insisted she give them an address. She repeated that he was dead. But they inisted - so she gave them the address of the cemetary.

Didn't hear from IRS after that.

[ck4829]

6. This looks like fertile ground for a scam

1. The person him/herself who the debt collector says needs to pay can not confirm or deny the bill because he/she is dead.

2. They're asking people who have no obligation to pay for these bills to pay for these bills.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are people out there who are already doing this.

Congress should probably consider putting some tight reins on collecting from the relatives of the deceased.

[Nay]

7. Why isn't this illegal?

[Berry Cool]

8. A DU'er not too long ago asked here if he was responsible for his deceased mother's debts

because he got a phone call from one of her creditors trying to guilt him into paying them, even though she left no estate to collect from. The advice he got was no, he isn't responsible, and he should tell any vultures who come after him to go hang.

Edited to add: I just finished reading the article, and it made me feel like vomiting. Especially the end...the testimonial letter from the elderly woman who GOT A JOB so she could pay off one of these debts at $5 a month...and THANKED THEM for being so NICE and UNDERSTANDING and LETTING her pay it off at that rate.

There's a special place in hell for these people...especially those who pride themselves on being good at this sort of stuff.

[JoDog]

9. Let me make this perfectly clear.

The survivors of a dead person are under no legal obligation to pay that person's debts. Period. Once upon a time in England, the next of kin were responsible for a dead person's debts. This made it entirely possible that someone could end up in debtor's prison for debts that they did not even incur. Particularly heavy debts could be passed down from father to son to grandson, impoverishing generations of a family. The founding fathers didn't want that to happen in America.

However, many people do not realize that they are not responsible for their loved one's debts. And I highly doubt that the collections agents inform them of that fact.

[MadHound]

12. That's not necessarily true

Don't take the word of an anonymous internet poster, these laws vary, both on the type of debt we're talking about (credit card vs. mortgage, etc.) and also varies from state to state.

Oh, and please JoDog, don't go around giving bad legal advice to people that could get them in trouble OK?

[smoogatz]

18. Unless you co-signed, or the deceased is your spouse or legal dependent

you don't owe--the estate of the dead person owes. If you're the executor of the estate then one of your jobs is to settle outstanding debt, using cash or assets from the estate to do so--you'd sell the house and pay off the mortgage, say. If your relative leaves no estate--dies with more debts than assets--tough luck for the lender. If you can link to a source that says otherwise I'd be happy to see it.

[liberalhistorian]

26. Yes, it IS true, with three exceptions:

you were a co-signer for the deceased, you had a joint account/loan/mortgage, or you're a spouse in a community property state. Other than that, no other family member, including a spouse, is responsible for the debts of a deceased, PERIOD. Only the estate is responsible and creditors need to file against the estate. If there's nothing to collect from the estate or it's an unsecured debt and there's nothing left from the estate after the secured debts have been paid, then tough shit. They're shit out of luck. They have NO business or legal ground going after relatives and they KNOW IT. They're simply pond-scum-sucking vultures taking advantage of the fact that too many others DON'T know it. They're nothing but pure scum and hell is warming up a special seat for them. They're even below medical debt collectors, who are also scum.

[Vinca]

10. If any of these vultures ever calls you, threaten to sue them for harassment

before you slam the phone down.

[HughBeaumont]

11. .

[gaspee]

13. Some

Asshole tried this with me. I told him to fuck off and asked him if he thought I was stupid. Then I asked him how he lived with himself. I can't believe the gall of these people.

[Blue Diadem]

14. That's pretty crappy. Oh let's manipulate the grieving to get them to pay

their deceased loved one's bills, even knowing that grieving person may not be legally responsible for them and may have to do without themselves to pay it. Why we even get them to thank us. We even pat ourselves on the back for being assholes.

That company and those "specially trained agents" are P'sOS.

[Froward69]

15. When I stood up to a rethug social worker

telling her that my dads debts die with him... thats when she contested his will.

even parking tickets would not leave me alone... they insisted I pay his parking tickets... I told them to sue me. they did not
as they did not have a leg to stand on.


tell everyone you know, debts die with the debtor!

[smoogatz]

16. The punchline is that you are in no way legally obligated to pay

for any debt owed by any dead relative other than a dependent child or spouse (unless you co-signed for a loan, of course). Creditors hit up surviving relatives because it's easier and cheaper than going after the estate. If you get one of these calls, say "no, thanks," and hang up.

[havocmom]

19. They can be real bullies, see my post below

I am glad I am as stubborn as my momma raised me. I don't katow to bullies. ;)

[smoogatz]

20. Good for you.

Yet another good reason to get caller ID, IMO.

[liberalhistorian]

27. You do not even owe debts for a spouse unless

it was a joint account/loan/mortgage, you were a co-signer, or you live in a community property state. If none of those apply, then the creditor needs to file a claim with the estate and collect from the estate. The spouse is NOT responsible if none of those conditions apply.

[havocmom]

17. Had a credit card rep call and really get ugly about a small balance on my mom's account

Called and got contact info, addresses for any accounts she had. Sent certified copies of death certificate to all companies, banks she had any account with.

One company HOUNDED me for a $32 purchase made "after the date of her death" (she bought a gift for someone via a phone order and it was out of stock, did not ship until end of December.

Company reps swore at me, accused me of fraud, using her account, being a "ghoul" and so on. REALLY got nasty with calls and letters and would NOT admit, for months, that they were in error.

Mom died 1/11/96. Someone at the credit card place typed in 11/11/96. Others in collections just saw 'November' and never noticed the 96 year. It was in March of 96 that collection harassment started. I could not get through to them that if they showed her dying in a month that hadn't happened, they should try to talk to her instead of me! Also mentioned, repeatedly, that I was under no obligation to pay her debt AND she had life insurance on the account. Took months and threats of lawsuit to get them to look at the fucking date on the certificate they had in their hands!

Hard enough to lose your mom. Didn't really need the illegal crap they were pulling with the harassment. They were unbelievably ugly and that was when the economy was GOOD.

[smoogatz]

21. There you go.

Some lovely people we're dealing with. And now they're getting my tax money to redecorate their offices.

[Odin2005]

22. You DO NOT have to pay the bastards one cent!

This is just another example of how the powerful prey on the rest of us because they can hire lawyers while us little people don't have time to study the minutiae of commercial law.

[L. Coyote]

23. One more good reason to create a living trust that does not require probate.

And use $10k in unsecured credit if you can, to pay for that expense funeral :rofl:

[Blue_Tires]

24. kick

thanks for this info...

[stopthirdpartydebt]

25. There is a huge SCAM, a multimillion dollar SCAM, being forced on the american public!!

There is a huge SCAM, a multimillion dollar SCAM, being forced on the american public!!

And our legal system is in on it!

third party debt collectors!!!

When you stop paying on a credit card debt,
The original creditor is mandated by federal law, to charge-off an account when no payments have been received for 180 days.
That date is refered to as the �Date of Last Activity (DLA)’ and reported as such, to the credit reporting agencies by the creditor.

After they write it off, they "Bundle" all these uncollectable accounts and sell them for pennies on the dollar on the open market, this is where the 3rd party debt collectors come in.

They BUY a "BUNDLE" of this uncollected debt info from the original bank.

However what they buy is your name, account number, and what you owed to the original bank.

They rarely or never get your "original signed contract" with the credit card company, your last statement of payment on the account, and the original writeoff amount.

This is what they need to "PROVE" in court that they now have "TITLE" to your original debt.!!

This information is usually sold several times within the "networks" still as a BUNDLE
of uncollectable debt!

They will harris you on the phone, send threating letters, saying that they represent
"XYC LLC" who now has title to your Bank of Bundi account in which you owe some
ridiculous amount.

First off the "XYC LLC" company is usually some "shell" company that the collection law firm has setup, because by law, the law firm itself cannot hold title and try to enforce a judgement against you.

So they have to "represent" a client who holds title, so they claim against you.

The law they are trying to collect on is "CONTRACT" law,,which requires them to have "the original signed contract", and the "deeds of transfer", indicating your account specifically with the "deeds of transfer", and a copy or original of your last statement, indicating your last payment on the account, and the "charge Off" amount. Which the original bank "wrote Off" its books.

They never have any of this information, what they present to the court is a hodge podge of information, a pasted piece from an excell spredsheet with your name, address ect, usually 2 pages sideways, "certifications" which are assembled by their own staff on their own computer systems, including usually an amount you owe which they assembled from their own computer system. From this "Budle" they bought for pennies on the dollar!!

The problem is unless you "ANSWER THE LAWSUIT" Requiring you to file an answer to the suit, contesting the "CONTRACT CASE" Pay the $15.00 fee to the court, and Show up on the Date of the court hearing and contest the case by demanding that they supply the original contract, deeds of transfer, and last payment statement,"
indicating your account "specifically" and the "charge Off" amount...

They will request a default judgement from the Judge..and he will grant it!

I have specifically fought 3 cases against me, taking several court dates, time off from work, endless hours of waiting, but they realized
I knew what I was talking about and that they could't proof their case,
IE get over on me...and they dismissed their suits...
go here....http://www.budhibbs.com/index.html
here Collection Agencies Illegal Practices ~ New Jersey
http://caipnj.blogspot.com/
and here
http://www.geocities.com/presslerclub/

and here
http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/forums/index.php

and here for a expose on tv
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTVZ4rU2_84

The reason the courts are usually on their side is "MONEY"
each time they file its $15.00 fee, each time you answer its $15.00 fee,
multiply that times the thousands of collection cases and you can see how the courts make money..not to mention that its a "Buddy" system..

you can email us at [e-mail]
for more info!!