LiberalHeart
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Tue Mar-27-07 09:27 PM
Original message |
Man agreed to pay alimony to his ex -- but not to the man she became. Now what? |
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A fairly new trail is being blazed in legal circles, thanks to the miracle of modern medicine. This guy married a woman, whom he divorced. Then she became a he, and now he's saying he shouldn't have to keep paying her -- er, him -- alimony. What do you think? http://newsgrinder.blogspot.com/2007/03/man-agreed-to-pay-alimony-to-his-ex-but.html
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LeftyMom
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Tue Mar-27-07 09:30 PM
Response to Original message |
1. Gender of the ex-spouse is irrelavent. |
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They were legally married, legally divorced, and he's legally on the hook for alimony no matter what she's got in her knickers these days.
Next case!
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BuyingThyme
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Tue Mar-27-07 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
4. But, if you can't legally be married to somebody of the same sex, |
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can you legally be divorced from somebody of the same sex?
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FourScore
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Tue Mar-27-07 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
6. The divorce happened prior to the sex change. n/t |
LeftyMom
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Tue Mar-27-07 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
7. Sure. They were married legally and then they legally divorced. |
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What happened afterward does not change his contractual obligations.
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BuyingThyme
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Tue Mar-27-07 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
14. Well, the question is to what the contractual obligations are. |
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For instance, depending on whether one lives, dies, or remarries, the obligations are different.
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LeftyMom
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Tue Mar-27-07 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
17. If, as the article states, he's on the hook until his ex remarries or dies, |
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then he's on the hook until the ex remarries or dies. Based on his alimony payment, one can safely assume he had legal counsel at the time the agreement was made, so he doesn't have any good reason to say now that he got screwed.
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BuyingThyme
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Tue Mar-27-07 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
19. What if the stipulation had to do with marrying or cohabiting |
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with another man? Would he have to keep paying if s/he married a woman?
(I'm not taking a position; I'm just fascinated by the implications.)
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LeftyMom
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Tue Mar-27-07 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #19 |
21. Well, here's my suspicion. |
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Legally, the answer is probably yes. However, this is Ohio, and Ohio family courts have a habit of going well outside the law to enforce whatever moral/religious/conformist axe the judge wants to grind, so they could very well find a way to get the ex off the hook. The fact that Ohio won't recognize same sex partnerships even when married elsewhere would mean that, assuming the trans ex is still legally considered female (I have no idea what Ohio law precedent on transgendered people is,) any female partner is nothing more than a roomie in the eyes of the law. If that is the case, the ex would still be on the hook, even if they threw the biggest, most outlandish commitment ceremony/wedding since Chuck and Di.
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BuyingThyme
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Tue Mar-27-07 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #21 |
27. I was assuming that sex changes were widely recognized, |
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but I have no idea why. I have absolutely no basis for that assumption.
But what if the sex change occurred during the marriage? Would the marriage become invalid in states which do recognize sex changes? And if so, would all prenuptial alimony agreements similarly be invalid?
As for states which do not recognize sex changes, this might be an effective loophole for legalizing same sex marriages.
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johnnie
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Wed Mar-28-07 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #21 |
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Clearwater. I don't know how much that changes things though.
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Solo_in_MD
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Tue Mar-27-07 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #19 |
31. Some states have rules/laws that recognize cohabitation in lieu of marriage as grounds for the |
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termination of alimony. If his ex get a partner, those may kick in.
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treestar
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Tue Mar-27-07 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
29. He is still the same person she was |
Solo_in_MD
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Tue Mar-27-07 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
28. Palimony recognizes alimony like obligations outside of a formal marriage |
BuyingThyme
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Tue Mar-27-07 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
slackmaster
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Wed Mar-28-07 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
71. Not completely irrelvant |
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Edited on Wed Mar-28-07 03:06 PM by slackmaster
As a man, the former wife will have greater earnings power than as a woman because of institutionalized gender discrimination in salary. He needs less money now than she did then.
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Zhade
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Wed Mar-28-07 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #71 |
79. Right. As a transgendered man. Sure. |
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You sure have a lot more faith in employers than reality supports.
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slackmaster
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Thu Mar-29-07 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #79 |
90. My point is that the gender change does change factors used to compute alimony |
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The ex-husband may end up paying more. That's a risk that payers of alimony ALWAYS take on when they reopen an old case.
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FourScore
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Tue Mar-27-07 09:32 PM
Response to Original message |
2. He's gotta' pay. He outta' pay. |
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Edited on Tue Mar-27-07 09:33 PM by whereismyparty
The settlement does not become null and void because of a medical procedure, even if that procedure was elective. Too often, society still views a divorce agreement as a handout to the spouse who is on the financial recieving end (usually a woman). That's just not the case.
I hope the former wife wins this one!
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LiberalHeart
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Tue Mar-27-07 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
Zhade
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Wed Mar-28-07 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
80. It's arguable that it's hardly elective. |
Hepburn
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Tue Mar-27-07 09:35 PM
Response to Original message |
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I don't know about family law in any other state but California, but I do know that spousal support (nice term supposedly for alimony) is based on need and ability to pay and, if this is a permanent and not temporary order, then lifestyle of the parties during marriage is taken into consideration as well as a few other things really not worth mentioning.
IMO, irrelevant that she is now a he ~~ none of the above factors changes because of this.
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BattyDem
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Tue Mar-27-07 09:41 PM
Response to Original message |
8. The alimony agreement was made with a person, not a gender |
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The woman had a medical procedure, which made her a man. BUT ... that doesn't change the fact that the woman (who is now a man) was married to a man who agreed to pay alimony until his ex-wife either died or remarried. A sex change qualifies as neither.
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1monster
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Tue Mar-27-07 09:41 PM
Response to Original message |
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Alimony should only be paid for a set period of time (long enough for the person to get job training or complete an education in order to become self supporting, in lieu of a property settlement or the property settlement should be reduced by the amount of alimony.
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Matariki
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Tue Mar-27-07 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
15. You know, if two people enter an agreement |
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where one person stays at home to take care of the couples mutual offspring and household chores while the other person pursues a career, the person who stays at home is at a terrible financial disadvantage should they divorce.
If the person staying home had been working all those years they would have a career path, raises, a retirement plan and so forth. It's not simply a matter of being supported until they get job training as if they were welfare recipients or something.
The way my parents divorce settlement was calculated was based on what it would have cost to have full time child care for 18 years, plus house cleaning and a personal assistant for 25 years. That seems one fair way to figure it.
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1monster
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Tue Mar-27-07 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
24. Okay, there is merit to that argument, however, that should be part of the |
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settlements and should not be called alimony.
Alimony is an out dated concept dating from the days when marriage was supposed to be forever, women were actively discouraged from holding jobs, divorce was still relatively rare, and one paycheck was enough to support a whole family. The idea was that a husband owed the woman he married spousal support for the rest of her life whether or not they remained married.
I once read about a woman who put her husband through either medical or law school at the expense of her own career. They divorced years later when he was reaping in considerable benefits from that education which she paid for.
She argued successfully that she invested in his career and therefore was entitled to a portion of his earnings as a return on her investment. I don't call that alimony. It is a dividend for the years she worked to support him and pay for his education.
If a married couple have children and the woman interrupts her career in order to raise the children, then that should be considered in a divorce settlement. Those years that her career was interrupted and the over all financial loss caused by the interruption should be figured into the divorce settlement.
Any payments made under those circumstances are not alimony; they are time payments in leiu of a lump sum settlement.
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Matariki
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Tue Mar-27-07 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #24 |
35. agree with you about the terminology |
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at the very least, it changes the perspective by calling it a settlement.
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hlthe2b
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Tue Mar-27-07 09:50 PM
Response to Original message |
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Just send ME the checks! :evilgrin:
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Warren Stupidity
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Tue Mar-27-07 09:50 PM
Response to Original message |
11. I tend to dislike alimony in all cases. |
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It is a bullshit hangover from a bygone era. I don't see how this guy's former spouse acquiring a penis alters the situation.
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msongs
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Tue Mar-27-07 09:50 PM
Response to Original message |
12. the alimony should stop - he/she has changed her side of the deal so the guy gets to change his |
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when she quit being his ex wife, he/she gave up claims to any wife related things IMO.
the contract has been voided by his/her actions.
Msongs www.msongs.com
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Warren Stupidity
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Tue Mar-27-07 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
13. what deal was that? nt. |
Matariki
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Tue Mar-27-07 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
16. your implying that they had a divorce DEAL that mentioned her/his gender? |
uppityperson
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Tue Mar-27-07 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
18. What deal? Still the same person. |
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She is still his ex-wife, unless they got married again. Alimony is dependent on your sexuality?
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Colobo
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Wed Mar-28-07 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #18 |
42. If a person goes through a sex change |
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that includes change of legal name, recognition of the new gender, etc... to me, it's a new person. I say this based on the documentaries I've seen on people who have gone through sex change. This person's "ex-wife" is now a man, a man this person didn't marry with.
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uppityperson
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Wed Mar-28-07 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #42 |
50. dicksteele says it well in post #41 |
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Edited on Wed Mar-28-07 10:53 AM by uppityperson
"What the MARRIAGE was based on is totally irrelevant. This is not about a marriage that was over long ago. This is about a court order that is in effect NOW. A court order that DOES NOT contain the clause, "as long as she remains legally female".
The alimony is based on the fact that this person is his ex-wife. And unless the surgeons who operated on her installed some sort of time machine, they did nothing to change that.
"Ex-wife" = "person who used to be his wife". Nothing will EVER change the fact that this person used to be his wife. Nothing.
Would you say that a divorced father who has a sex change is somehow entitled to stop paying his child support? Same thing, y'know. "
Edited to add, fingerprints are still the same. IMO, the same person, same prior responsibilities, even though their gender is different. Alimony is usually given to make up for income disparity and/or the 1 partner doing something like working while the other goes to school to increase job possibilities/income. Do you think that by changing to male this person now does not fit into these categories, or is it just because this person had a sex change and is "a different person"?
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mondo joe
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Wed Mar-28-07 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #42 |
57. When a person goes through a sex change do they still carry their debt |
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and assets?
Can you call VISA and say "I don't have to pay you any more - I'm a different person now"?
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LeftyMom
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Tue Mar-27-07 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
20. He's still the ex-wife. |
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They were married, and divorced, legally. Current circumstances not mentioned in the alimony agreement are not a factor.
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Richard Steele
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Tue Mar-27-07 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
25. And if my landlord gets a sex change I can stop paying my rent, too! |
Matariki
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Tue Mar-27-07 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #25 |
Laurier
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Wed Mar-28-07 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #25 |
40. Your landlord/tenant relationship was not dependent upon your |
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landlord's gender.
It appears, from the limited information provided in this thread at least, that the marriage in question was dependent upon the gender of the two parties.
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Richard Steele
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Wed Mar-28-07 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #40 |
41. Kinda my point. That alimony agreement is not dependent on gender, either. |
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What the MARRIAGE was based on is totally irrelevant. This is not about a marriage that was over long ago. This is about a court order that is in effect NOW. A court order that DOES NOT contain the clause, "as long as she remains legally female".
The alimony is based on the fact that this person is his ex-wife. And unless the surgeons who operated on her installed some sort of time machine, they did nothing to change that.
"Ex-wife" = "person who used to be his wife". Nothing will EVER change the fact that this person used to be his wife. Nothing.
Would you say that a divorced father who has a sex change is somehow entitled to stop paying his child support? Same thing, y'know.
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Laurier
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Wed Mar-28-07 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #41 |
45. I have to disagree with your assertion that the terms of the marriage are irrelevant . |
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Edited on Wed Mar-28-07 01:36 AM by Laurier
The court's decision about alimony is based upon the terms of the marriage, thus those terms are very relevant. I have to disagree with your assertion that the terms of the marriage are irrelevant to the terms of the dissolution of the marriage. And I am assuming that the marriage was based upon the parties being opposite genders in this case, since that seems to be the basis of this thread and since it appears that there was no expectation to the contrary in this case, and since in the (in my view) unenlightened state in which they were married, they could not have married as a same sex couple in any event. Is there really an issue here about the intent of the parties insofar as it relates to the gender of the person they were marrying at the time? I don't see that in this thread, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
There is no written contract with regards to the marriage as far as I can tell from the OP, so it is not about interpreting the terms of a contract, as you suggest. Rather, it is about a court trying to interpret to the best of its ability the intent of the parties and the obigations of the parties.
You seem to be introducing a straw man here by raising the issue of a parent having a sex change and how that impacts upon a spouse being required to pay child support. I did not see anything in the OP about children or child support being an issue, but supporting one's children is a seperate issue from supporting one's previous spouse, as I'm sure you know.
You said:
"Would you say that a divorced father who has a sex change is somehow entitled to stop his child support? Same thing, y'know."
No, it is not the same thing at all. And no, I would not say that having a sex change absolves anyone of their obligations to their children. But that is not the issue here.
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Matariki
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Wed Mar-28-07 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #45 |
51. once the marriage is ended why the hell should gender matter? |
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that makes no sense what so ever. if the person changed gender during marriage it would be fair to argue that the 'terms of marriage' were broken, but we're talking about divorce here - two people who don't want to have anything to do with each other. So why would gender have an iota of importance except as a lame attempt to get out of an agreement?
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Laurier
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Wed Mar-28-07 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #51 |
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First, where is your evidence that this particular couple divorced because "they don't want to have anything to do with each other"? Second, was the parting of the ways a result of the fact that one of the parties chose to change genders? Third, as a bisexual person myself, I can certainly understand why a heterosexual partner would balk at being held financially responsible for my support if my partner was not aware of my bisexuality at the time of our union or throughout our relationship, and I wouldn't hold it against my partner at all if said partner felt that way. (Hell, even I didn't know of my bisexual nature at the time we first got together, so how could I hold it against my partner later?)
Note that this is premised on the straight partner not having knowledge of my bisexuality - I would opine differently if the partner knew all along, but that does not seem to be the case in the subject of this thread.
All of this is quite separate and apart from the issues of child support, though. I agree that the partner should not in any way be absolved of the partner's obligations to the children, but I disagree that the partner should not be able to argue that his obligations to his spouse have changed when the spouse's gender is changed in circumstances where he had no prior knowledge of it.
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mondo joe
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Wed Mar-28-07 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #45 |
61. no, the decision about alimony is based on the deal the couple makes - |
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that may take into account some all or none of the terms of the marriage.
This is all specific to the deal struck by this former couple. If it doesn't refer to gender change, I hardly see how it can matter.
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Laurier
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Wed Mar-28-07 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #41 |
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Edited on Wed Mar-28-07 01:37 AM by Laurier
Edit - sorry, I had some kind of glitch and got an error message that indicated that my post did not appear so I had to re-do it. Now, it appears that it did post so this may be a duplicate.
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Richard Steele
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Wed Mar-28-07 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #46 |
47. And we all know that nothing rhymes with "orage". |
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Quote: And no, I would not say that having a sex change absolves anyone of their obligations to their children.
Then WHY exactly would it absolve them of any other legal OBLIGATION then? Unless you believe that transgendered folks are somehow less than human, and CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS don't really apply to them, your post doesn't actually make any logical sense.
Your disagreement is too silly to waste any more time thinking about.
But, FYI: you might want to learn what a "straw man arguement" is before you embarrass yourself with further misuse of the term. That was a "rhetorical question". Different.
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Laurier
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Wed Mar-28-07 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #47 |
77. Because the obligation to one's spouse is not the same as one's |
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obligations to one's children.
I think this is self evident.
The only strawmen being erected here are of your doing, not mine.
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Richard Steele
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Wed Mar-28-07 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #77 |
88. Again you show some peculiar difficulties with reading comprehension. |
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It seems less and less likely that these are truly "misunderstandings" on your part. Therefore, I shall bid you "good day".
Good day.
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mondo joe
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Wed Mar-28-07 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #40 |
52. Neither is the divorce relationship. |
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The marriage has ended.
There's nothing about alimony that is gender specific.
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Zhade
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Wed Mar-28-07 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #40 |
82. Neither was the alimony order. |
shatter
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Tue Mar-27-07 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
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just as if you were to change your name, you're still the same person with the same fingerprints same dna, etc etc
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jesus_of_suburbia
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Tue Mar-27-07 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
37. Are you sure you are liberal? |
mondo joe
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Wed Mar-28-07 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #12 |
56. Were there terms in the deal referring to genitalia? |
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Where in the contract is that stipulated?
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Zhade
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Wed Mar-28-07 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
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Unless, of course, you can provide evidence that your assertion that the deal hinged on Julio's gender is true.
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mitchum
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Tue Mar-27-07 10:16 PM
Response to Original message |
22. Does he now call him a "bloodsucking prick" rather than a... |
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"bloodsucking bitch"? C'mon, ya know he probably does...
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BlooInBloo
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Tue Mar-27-07 10:17 PM
Response to Original message |
23. Interesting semantic awkwardness: SHE no longer exists to pay alimony to. LOL! |
Forkboy
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Tue Mar-27-07 10:29 PM
Response to Original message |
WinkyDink
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Tue Mar-27-07 11:09 PM
Response to Original message |
33. Would a self-respecting man take that alimony? Heh. |
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Edited on Tue Mar-27-07 11:11 PM by WinkyDink
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BuyingThyme
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Tue Mar-27-07 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #33 |
jesus_of_suburbia
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Tue Mar-27-07 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #33 |
38. What bullshit. *I know you were kidding though* |
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Men and women are equal. Don't pull that shit about would a man ask for alimony.
Men and women are equal! Quit pretending they aren't!
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WinkyDink
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Wed Mar-28-07 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #38 |
44. OMG. Like this Democratic flaming Liberal WOMAN doesn't know or think that. |
Laurier
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Wed Mar-28-07 12:15 AM
Response to Original message |
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Personally, I think the court will say that hubby's off the hook, but that's just a guess. I can't say that I would disagree with that, though, if that's the ultimate decision.
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RagingInMiami
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Wed Mar-28-07 01:09 AM
Response to Original message |
43. Another reminder why I will probably never get married |
spoony
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Wed Mar-28-07 03:36 AM
Response to Original message |
48. Is alimony at all based on |
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The disparity of pay between men and women? If so, what affect do you think the sex change will have on their earning ability? If the ex-wife receives the pay boost as a man, maybe that cancels out the point of alimony? Of course, maybe the ex-wife will struggle in earnings considering prejudice. It's a head-scratcher.
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Zhade
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Wed Mar-28-07 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #48 |
83. If you think transgendered persons are treated better than women... |
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...I'd love to know what planet you live on.
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spoony
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Thu Mar-29-07 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #83 |
89. Lol, LoZoccolo was so dead on about you. |
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If you'd care to reread what I posted, you'll see that I did, in fact, bring up prejudice against transgendered people. But by all means don't let that stop you from making an arse out of yourself.
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alphafemale
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Wed Mar-28-07 03:48 AM
Response to Original message |
49. Why is ANYONE still being awarded "Alimony?" until death or remarriage |
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That concept seems a tad dated.
A fair division of the assets upon divorce...sure. Absolutely.
But a concept that someone must be supported for life by a former partner?
Why?
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mondo joe
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Wed Mar-28-07 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #49 |
54. I think it depends on what you think marriage is. |
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If you consider it two people coming together for a possibly limited time and that's all, then long term alimony doesn't make much sense.
I personally tend to think of it more as an incorporation or partnership. In said partnership there may be a range of divisions of labor - one party may work outside the home to earn the $, the other may work in the home to manage the resources. But on divorce, one partner's labor is now an asset and the other's is a liability.
There's no simple way to split THAT sort of asset on divorce.
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ComerPerro
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Wed Mar-28-07 11:13 AM
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53. here's my question: Why does someone who can afford such an elective surgery |
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need alimony in the first place?
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mondo joe
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Wed Mar-28-07 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #53 |
55. Alimony isn't welfare. NT |
ComerPerro
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Wed Mar-28-07 11:21 AM
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59. true, but what reason could there be for the husband to have to keep paying |
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when the wife obviously isn't hurting for finances.
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mondo joe
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Wed Mar-28-07 11:23 AM
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60. Because it doesn't have to do with "hurting for finances". |
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It has to do with the divorce agreement abnd its terms.
If - for example - a wife spent 20 years managing the home while the husband worked and this was their shared decision and division of labor, I think it's reasonable that his future earnings are partially hers due to the investment she made in them. If they made that sort of division of labor it created an asset in his name (his earning potential) that can't be split in half the way house valie could be in a divorce.
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ComerPerro
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Wed Mar-28-07 11:33 AM
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63. well, whatever. IMO, alimony and child support is all bullshit anyway |
uppityperson
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Wed Mar-28-07 03:03 PM
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70. Child support is bullshit? What do you mean? |
Zhade
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Wed Mar-28-07 11:13 PM
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84. Child support is bullshit? |
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Wait - what?
Did you really say that?
How odd. So, I shouldn't support my kid, so I can make sure he, you know, eats and has health care and clothes?
What kind of nonsense are you talking?
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mondo joe
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Wed Mar-28-07 11:19 AM
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58. By this reasoning, if you get a sex change you can abandon all your debt. |
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"Hi VISA - I'm a different person now so I don't owe you jack shit."
Of course you'd have to forego your assets as well.
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BlueIris
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Wed Mar-28-07 11:29 AM
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62. What a fat (and ignorant) pig. |
Zhade
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Wed Mar-28-07 11:14 PM
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85. Do we know he's fat? Should fat be an insult? |
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I'm fat, does that make me vile?
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CRH
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Wed Mar-28-07 11:37 AM
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64. I think if she can afford to become a he, ... |
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then he, or is it she, can afford to support his or her self.
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mondo joe
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Wed Mar-28-07 01:25 PM
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66. Alimony is not generally a needs based arrangement. |
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It is a negotiated settlement between two parties.
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Rosemary2205
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Wed Mar-28-07 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #64 |
67. Alimony is an acknowledgment of a spouses contribution to the marriage |
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the person recieving alimony could certainly be wealthy in their own right, but if they substantially contributed to the other spouse's ability to earn income they have a shared interest in that future income. Hence, alimony.
The other way to do it is to dissolve all assets and split them up at the time of divorce but this is not always practical or financially wise, so payment over a period of years or a lifetime is set up instead.
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gollygee
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Wed Mar-28-07 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #64 |
68. I don't think people here understand what alimony is |
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Here's an example - someone I used to work with. She worked two jobs right out of high school so that he wouldn't have to work and would be able to go to college - and then to grad school. They put off having a kid while she worked and he went to school. Then they had a kid, he had his doctorate, and he divorced her for someone else. He would not have have been able to get through school or even pay for it without her NOT going to school and working two jobs to pay for everything. She did it as an investment in THEIR COMBINED future. He can leave her if he wants but she made an investment in him as part of an agreement they had - that she would work to put him through school so he'd get a good job and be able to make things financially easy for both of them. If he wants to leave her he still has to follow through with that agreement.
And if she'd decided to have any kind of elective surgery, it wouldn't change their past or what responsibilities he had.
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Zhade
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Wed Mar-28-07 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #64 |
86. He is a he. Deal with it. |
gollygee
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Wed Mar-28-07 01:50 PM
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69. I don't understand why anyone would think it would make any difference at all |
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Why on earth would it make a difference that this person had any kind of elective surgery at all? How does that change the financial situation that made alimony applicable in the first place?
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slackmaster
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Wed Mar-28-07 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #69 |
72. Men still earn more money than women |
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A change of gender does indeed change a person's financial prospects.
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gollygee
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Wed Mar-28-07 03:11 PM
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73. Yeah because transgendered people have a really easy time |
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finding a job.
Anyway, that's beside the point. It isn't about their financial prospects, it's about the financial choices they made during their marriage. I wrote a reply to the post above this one with an example of that. The woman worked two jobs to put her husband through college, and then through grad school. He got his doctorate and married someone else. She worked two jobs for years and years because they together decided she would do that for their combined future, which would be easier after he had a doctorate and could make a very good salary. Those facts wouldn't change if she had sex reassignment surgery, or had any other kind of surgery.
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slackmaster
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Wed Mar-28-07 03:23 PM
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74. Only if they disclose that they are transgendered |
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Edited on Wed Mar-28-07 03:23 PM by slackmaster
...It isn't about their financial prospects, it's about the financial choices they made during their marriage.Financial prospects can be considered in alimony negotiations. See my reply in another thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2784274&mesg_id=2785054
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gollygee
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Wed Mar-28-07 03:29 PM
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75. Do you think it's that easy to keep a secret? |
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Transgendered people face huge amounts of bigotry. You're assuming that he looks and sounds completely masculine now, that he has a new job where no one knows him or knew him or knew of him, and that he is able to have all his references keep it a secret and that it will be kept a secret when people call his former places of work to ask about his employment history. And that his new job won't ask for a college transcript or anything else that would have his former name listed.
If anything, he would probably need *more* money because of increased discrimination.
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slackmaster
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Wed Mar-28-07 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #75 |
76. I'm not assuming anything about this individual |
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Edited on Wed Mar-28-07 03:41 PM by slackmaster
I'm simply saying that statements made in this thread and at least one other, indicating that earnings power is not a factor in alimony determination, and that alimony has nothing to do with the recipient's financial needs, are incorrect.
The ex-husband in this case may be acting reasonably if he claims that the gender change of his former spouse changes the financial calculus that resulted in the present alimony payment. A court can determine if his claim is valid.
If anything, he would probably need *more* money because of increased discrimination.
Perhaps so, and frankly by bringing the issue into court the former husband is taking a risk that he'll end up paying more.
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Zhade
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Wed Mar-28-07 11:16 PM
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87. THANK you. It's like some people are blind to the discrimination Ts get EVERY DAY. |
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I'm not even friends with a single transgendered person, and *I* get that fact.
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