Vatican Says It Was The Washing Machine, Not The Pill That Liberated Women

[ensho]

http://www.feministpeacenetwork.org/2009/03/08/vatican-says-it-was-the-washing-machine-not-the-pill-that-liberated-women/


I try to be religiously tolerant, really I do, but with all due respect, I believe that the Vatican has apparently been spending so much time in the spin cycle that their little brains have overdosed on Downy softness:

“The washing machine and the emancipation of women: put in the powder, close the lid and relax,” said the headline on the article in Osservatore Romano.

“In the 20th cenutry, what contributed most to the emancipation of western women?” questioned the article.

“The debate is still open. Some say it was the pill, others the liberalisation of abortion, or being able to work outside the home. Others go even further: the washing machine,” it added.

And this is the best they could come up with for International Women’s Day? Memo to the Pontiff–wash your own damned dirty laundry.
----------------------------


catholic women should laugh the pope right out of the vatican

or demand that he learn feminist philosophy before he speaks about women again

[Occam Bandage]

1. The washing machine did liberate women. So did the sewing machine.

So did the vacuum cleaner, the tin can, the electric freezer, prepackaged food, etc., etc. Most likely not to the extent the pill did, but it's hard to directly compare the effects of things that happened in different generations.

(Also, the Pope didn't write this article. I have the feeling that if this were just an opinion piece by a random consumer-goods historian, it would be seen as a thought-provoking novelty and nothing more. But since it is related to the Dread Catholicism, we all must bash it in multiple threads.)

[spiritual_gunfighter]

11. I am sure Catholicism will be bashed

they give us so much to work with.

[Occam Bandage]

20. One of the last acceptable bigotries:

Fat people, smokers, and Catholics.

(If this were written by a Jewish professor in Tel Aviv, instead of a Catholic newspaper columnist in Rome, would people be laughing at Jews? I somehow doubt anyone would even notice. I'm not Catholic, but I'm surprised by the level of vitriol aimed at them.)

[spiritual_gunfighter]

22. I dont know

If fat people were an organized group and their leaders were raping children and the hierarchy were sweeping it under the rug I might say that it wasn't bigotry at all, it would be justified anger.

[Occam Bandage]

25. Plenty of fat people have raped children. I fail to see your point.

Sure, there are corrupt bishops, and the Catholic hierarchy is opaque. That is the case in literally every opaque hierarchy. What you are saying is akin to this:

"There have been abuses of workers' rights at Wal-Mart. The Wal-Mart corporate structure has protected managers who have engaged in abuses of workers' rights there. Therefore, people who shop at Wal-Mart, or work as a Wal-Mart cashier, are scumbags we should all be angry at."

[spiritual_gunfighter]

29. I admire you using Wal-Mart as a strawman

It usually works. But there isn't a hugely powerful organization of fat people worth an untold amount of money. Who have the support of millions and millions of people, who have muscled their way into the highest eschalons of power in the world. Of course they can get away with child rape, they get away with murder as well, which is well documented. But if devout Catholics want to continue to worship and tithe there who am I to stop them. I just fail to see the false equivalency you have established in your argument. Pretty weak if you ask me.

[Occam Bandage]

33. If I could change one thing about DU, it would be to teach everyone what "strawman" means.

I have used Wal-Mart as an analogy, specifically stating it was an analogy. A strawman is when you attribute an argument to your opponent falsely. I have done no such thing; I have instead created an analogy, while specifically stating it was an analogy and not your actual argument. And nowhere in the analogy did I attribute an argument to you that you have not made.

In both, the problem is with an opaque hierarchy in which higher-ups protect mid-level abusers. Since you feel it is acceptable to attack Catholics for the actions of corrupt bishops that are immune to public pressure (in threads completely unrelated to the actions of those bishops), do you also feel it is acceptable to go to Wal-Marts and berate cashiers and shoppers for the actions of Wal-Mart management? If not, what is the difference?

[spiritual_gunfighter]

36. Point taken about strawman

I shouldn't have used it in my response. I am far less likely to "berate cashiers and shoppers for the action of Wal-Mart management" because for many that are employed at Wal-Mart that is the easiest and most accessible job for them to get. Wal-Mart set up shop in many smaller towns and rural areas where jobs are a lot harder to come by and use that to their advantage. As far as shoppers go, maybe there is no defense for them I don't shop there personally. But this isn't an argument about Wal-Mart (as much as it seems you would like for it to be), it is an argument about the Catholic church. Continuing to fund the actions of a corrupt institution when you know what the Vatican is up to doesn't make a lot of sense to me. There are many other churches and denomonations that don't have the baggage that the Catholic church has. If you wan't to go back to the Wal-Mart analogy we can. If you don't like the practices of Wal-Mart then shop at K-Mart, sure they don't have as much of a selection as Wal-Mart but you can leave K-Mart knowing you didn't give your money to a "wicked corporation". Or maybe you could take your business to a mom and pop store in town who want your business and they don't rape children, and recind the excommunication of a holocaust denier then excommunicate the mother of a 9 year old rape victim, and many other assorted sundries throughout it's history. What I am saying is the Catholic church aint the only game in town, you could always shop at Meyer.

[Pithlet]

46. Yes. It drives me batty when people use "strawman" incorrectly.

And it happens all the time.

[October]

23. I understand your point

Having been raised Catholic, I feel I can say something.

The Catholic Church inserts itself into social issues and political issues more than a lot of other religions. They constantly hold women back and they've allowed pedophile priests to be protected. They are easy to attack because they ask for it by their lack of intellectual discussion.

Anyway...I used to defend them...but it is getting harder.

[Occam Bandage]

27. The Vatican is easy to attack, yes. They're often wrong and say stupid things.

I'm just getting mildly irritated in seeing the giddiness with which people happily attack Catholicism in completely unrelated fields. I mean, the excommunication of the raped girl for having an abortion? Sure, that's abhorrent, and anyone ought complain about that. But when something as innocuous as a Catholic writer saying that electric appliances had an enormous impact on women's liberation turns into multiple Catholic-bashing threads, I think that people are going a bit overboard.

[October]

49. Going "overboard" happens a lot around here

Not to be too glib...

You're right. It's better to attack their stance on issues than to make sweeping statements.

I always bring up Martin Sheen as a true liberal Catholic. It helps.

[Johonny]

34. I'm not sure how true that is

I believe time usage studies have found technology generally doesn't free up time but changes standards. I.E. the ability to quickly wash your clothes change the expectation that your clothes would be washed after every use. Thus people would do washing more often. The time "saved" is often consumed by the new time spent doing the activity more often.

[msongs]

2. maybe the washer liberated men - now able to wash their own w/out a woman? nt

[Mrs. Overall]

3. Nah, I think it was the Dust-Vac and Bisquick.

[ret5hd]

6. The toaster! Maybe that's why they give it as a prize when you...

join the other team!

[Catshrink]

7. Microwave!

[Marrah_G]

4. The pope needs to stay out of our uteruses and ask himself why he "needs" red prada shoes

and a palace and a golden throne and a 20 pound crown.

I believe Christ spoke alot about poverty and humility and very little about womens reproductive rights.

[JitterbugPerfume]

5. what truly liberates women

is divorce!

[Warpy]

13. HAHAHAHA!

Gawd bless the divorce courts, for they shall set us free!

[ensho]

21. right on

lol

[EFerrari]

44. On my grad school application under marital status, I entered "Freed".

lol

:hi:

[guitar man]

8. I thought the vibrator did that!!

:silly: :rofl:

[Submariner]

9. Is the Vatican Jesus the Maytag repairman?

Then that asshole needs to get over to my place now and fix the spin cycle.

So the world of make believe is now hawking kitchen appliances. What a sorry cast of eccentric idiots occupying the vatican.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

10. What truly liberates women

and men for that matter is being a lapsed Catholic, I should know I am one.

[Warpy]

12. Actually, the washing machine did the opposite

Early studies showed we got a lot dirtier when washing clothing meant boiling water on the stove and using a washboard in the sink. The presence of a washing machine meant a lower tolerance for minor soil, resulting in more frequent laundry. Instead of liberating women from toil one day a week, it produced toil several days a week.

That was true of most "labor saving" devices around the home.

However, don't expect celibate old men in dresses to notice things like that. Especially don't expect them to notice that pregnancy and childbirth are arduous and risky conditions. Don't ever expect them to admit that they must be voluntary ones. Above all, never expect them to admit women are fully human and have rights of their own.

[dsc]

28. that is absurd

Most people launder about once a week or maybe twice a week and you put the clothes in and walk away. Before laudry was a job that required energy and devotion and took hours. I would rather run 50 loads in a machine than do one load by hand.

[Warpy]

37. Do you never do laundry?

Time is spent sorting and transferring from washer to dryer and folding and ironing afterwards. Walking away is only temporary and usually toward some other "labor saving" device. Doing more laundry more often means more work.

The studies were done, my friend, and the conclusion they reached was that labor saving devices create more labor.

[dsc]

43. I live alone so yes I do laundry

and I will say that there is no way, no how, washing machines aren't labor saving and time saving.

[Stevenmarc]

14. Now available in the gift shop... The Vatican Laugh-A-Day Calendar

They really have a lot of time on their hands to come up with gems like these

[no_hypocrisy]

15. So did Coco Chanel's design for the brassiere.

Women were emancipated in phases through different products being introduced.

What's the Pope's point?

Isn't humanity better off with women being partners with men?

[Ian David]

16. What do you want to bet that The Vatican once opposed The Washing Machine, too? n/t

[JoDog]

17. Um, actually

The Vatican has a point. Appliances did play a huge role in liberating women. Many people do not understand the amount of labor running a household used to take. Oftentimes, chores like washing, ironing, baking, sewing and dusting even a modest house for a small family took so long, entire days were dedicated to each one. This is where the term "laundry day" came from. Laundry--done with a tub (2 if you were really fancy), washboard, wringer, mangle and agitator pole was backbreaking and time-consuming work. And that's not counting trying to get laundry to dry in the winter in northern climates.

When the industrial revolution brought things like pre-made clothes, washers and dryers, vacuums, and store-bought candles, soap, yarn and thread, it brought the women who could afford them something even more precious--time. Many women used that time to read and educate themselves, take greater roles in their communities, and yes, work (sometimes for pay, sometimes volunteer). Even more significant was the effect it had on the education of girls. Up into the mid 20th century, it was still common for girls to be pulled out of school for at least 1 day a week to help with the washing or cleaning. One of the main arguements against the education of girls was that as adults they were going to spend their lives over washtubs and ovens, so why bother beyond the basics? When their mothers no longer needed their help at home, the girls could stay in school, join clubs, go to college and enter professions.

Don't get me wrong--the pill was very liberating. But the appliances we take for granted meant a lot too.

For an interesting look at this topic, rent "The 1900 House", a mini-series that was produced by BBC and PBS. In it, a modern woman finds out the liberating value of appliances (and maids) first hand.

[Pithlet]

47. I agree.

Pill's great, don't get me wrong. Cannot be understated, that. But I cannot imagine the daily toil of life without modern conveniences. I don't think we could have had true liberation without both the pill and those modern conveniences like washing machines.

[LiberalEsto]

18. And what, exactly, does the Pope know about laundry?

When was the last time he or one of the cardinals ran a load in the washer?

These guys know nothing about the subject, much less about women's bodies, childbirth, rape, abortion and so much more, yet they think they have the right to make all kinds of pronouncements about all kinds of issues they know zilch about.

Maybe they should stick to talking about what they DO know: embroidered robes and fancy headgear.

[Occam Bandage]

19. The Pope doesn't write the Osservatore any more than the President writes the Washington Post. nt

[omega minimo]

24. and the printing press liberated faith

[sweetpotato]

26. Actually, the advances in cleaning technology only served to increase standards

Cleaning technologies - such as vacuums, washing machines, dryers, etc, only served to change the standards of *clean.* Once these things became commonplace items in households, the expectation of cleanliness went higher.

Because you could clean better, you had to clean better.

At the end of the equation, women still worked the same number of hours on housework, they just did it differently.

I love how men always want to tell me how my life has gotten better. They have no clue.

[Maru Kitteh]

30. I love how men want to tell me it's my fucking job to clean the house

It's not.

Mr. Maru Kitteh does not even go there. If he thinks something needs to be cleaned, he knows what to do. Whenever either of us does any kind of household chore, we always thank the other for taking care of it. It's a totally shared responsibility, not an expectation.

[madrchsod]

31. these guys should take their comedy act on the road....

[madrchsod]

32. well i wash,clean,and iron...i`m a liberated guy!

[SoCalDem]

35. I think it was WWII.. Most of the men were GONE

and the ones who stayed home were probably meek because they did not go (for whatever reason), or old, and all those jobs opened up for women, They found out how competent they were,,and they did it all at the same time.. pretty heady stuff:) They found out that they could manage money, run a household, raise kids, AND do meaningful work outside the home..

Most went back home when the men returned..some willingly, others grudgingly, but they raised a batch of kids who benefitted from Mom's experiences and no doubt caught on to the fact that women could do almost anything a man could.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

38. But not the wringer washing machine ...

It was the newer washers, whose spin cycle made the machine vibrate like crazy.

:party:



The trouble with popes is that even if they die, a new one pops up. They don't just disappear.

:hi:

[Gormy Cuss]

39. !

"....spin cycle made the machine vibrate like crazy"
:spray:

[BuyingThyme]

40. I think it was the hot-air corn popper.

:hide:

[EFerrari]

45. NutraSweet.

:hide:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. Washing Machines and divorce lawyers.

In our house, she does her laundry, I do mine. It avoids the second option.

[Terran]

42. "Vatican Admits It Knows Nothing About Sex" n/t

[KG]

48. too bad the catholic chuch itself couldn't see its way to liberating women