Larisa Alexandrovna: We are being spoon-fed stupid again.

[Tuesday_Morning]

Larisa calls bullshit and I agree.

http://www.atlargely.com/2009/03/we-are-being-spoonfed-stupid-again.html

March 10, 2009

We are being spoon-fed stupid again...

Can someone explain to me how 5 suspected members of Al Qaeda (although there is no question regarding KSM) suddenly got their own PR machine from inside Gitmo and at the hands of a military judge, not to mention getting a world stage through which to frighten Americans some more? And the media? Well, they are too well versed is stupid to ask any sensible questions:

<snip>

5 alleged Al Qaeda members issue a statement of guilt, an incendiary statement rejoicing at the lost American lives of those attacks 7 years back, through a filing with the court. This filing is accepted by the court despite some of the attorneys not being made aware that this was going to be filed or what was going to be declared on behalf of their clients. Moreover, defying President Obama's ruling putting a halt on all Gitmo military commissions, the judge on the case not only accepted this filing, but also released it to the public.

Does anyone else find this just all a bit too well timed, not to mention idiotic? Seriously, what purpose could this serve in helping the American cause or in keeping the nation safe?

<snip>

more at link

http://www.atlargely.com/2009/03/we-are-being-spoonfed-stupid-again.html

[conscious evolution]

1. If you torture someone enough

you can get them to sign anything.

[Maat]

2. Exactly ...

and we have to keep repeating that phrase again and again.

[conscious evolution]

3. What scares me

is that this happened on Obamas watch.
And we thought that America was becoming a civilized nation again.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

12. It's going to be a long, slow process

before we're readmitted to civilization proper.

[conscious evolution]

15. Crap like this doesn't help.

[eppur_se_muova]

16. Gitmo ain't in America -- that's the whole problem.

Apparently certain individuals at Gitmo have the idea they can run things their way independently of the Commander in Chief. Isolation helps them get away with it.

[conscious evolution]

17. So our military is refusing orders

from the Commander-in Chief?
Great.
We are so fucked.

[Uncle Joe]

20. They're only 100 miles or so a way from the U.S.

but even if they were on the other side of the planet, the President is still their Commander in Chief, just ask "Old soldiers never die, they just fade away McArthur."

But you raise any interesting point regarding the legal status of Gitmo, it has to be American, unless they allow Cuban Courts to try criminal offenses committed on that base.

I wonder if any one ever committed a crime; murder, rape, burglary on Gitmo and if so, did the Cuban Courts try them? The only legal entity on that base is American, so to deny that's not American Responsibility seems entirely disingenuous to me.

[Usrename]

28. Funny how the establishment doublethink works, isn't it?

Gitmo is NOT America, so the detainees are not on US soil.

Panama IS America, so McCain was born on US soil.

How do they keep both of those thoughts alive in the same head? It's diabolical.

[tclambert]

31. "The government needs to fix all the roads, improve all the schools, and cut my taxes!"

Right wingers need to have a little damage to the part of the brain that allows you to connect one statement to another.

Saw Karl Rove on the TV saying how disappointed he was that Obama was going to run up big deficits and not show more fiscal responsibility. (Sheesh.) Then he suggested Obama take the Republican advice of a "tax holiday," something sure to increase the deficit. At that point, I believe the other panelists edged away from him for fear of getting singed by the lightning bolt about to strike.

[Fumesucker]

36. Umm .. they do have damage to that part of the brain..

It's called cognitive dissonance and many, if not most, conservatives are virtually immune to it.

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

OK, what’s this book about? It’s about what happened to the American government after "conservatives" gained control of Congress in the 1990s and the White House in 2000. It’s about the disastrous decisions that government made, which have created the enormous problems we face now. It’s about the corruption that rotted the Congress. It’s about how traditional conservatism has nearly been destroyed by authoritarianism. It’s about how the “Religious Right” teamed up with amoral authoritarian leaders to push its un-democratic agenda onto the country.

“Well,” you might be thinking, “I don’t believe any of this is true.” Or maybe you’re thinking, “What else is new? I’ve known this all along.” Why should a conservative, moderate, or liberal bother with this book? Why should any Republican, Independent, or Democrat click the “Introduction” link on this page?

Because if you do, you’ll begin an easy-ride journey through some relevant scientific studies I have done on authoritarian personalities--one that will take you a heck of a lot less time than the decades it took me. Those studies have a direct bearing on all the topics mentioned above. So if you think the first paragraph is a lot of hokum, or full of half-truths, I invite you to look at the research.

For example, take the following statement: “Once our government leaders and the authorities condemn the dangerous elements in our society, it will be the duty of every patriotic citizen to help stomp out the rot that is poisoning our country from within.” Sounds like something Hitler would say, right? Want to guess how many politicians, how many lawmakers in the United States agreed with it? Want to guess what they had in common?

Or how about a government program that persecutes political parties, or minorities, or journalists the authorities do not like, by putting them in jail, even torturing and killing them. Nobody would approve of that, right? Guess again.

Don’t think for a minute this doesn’t concern you personally. Let me ask you, as we’re passing the time here, how many ordinary people do you think an evil authority would have to order to kill you before he found someone who would, unjustly, out of sheer obedience, just because the authority said to? What sort of person is most likely to follow such an order? What kind of official is most likely to give that order, if it suited his purposes? Look at what experiments tell us, as I did.

If, on the other hand, you’re way ahead of me, and believe the extreme right-wing elements in America are still working to take over the country despite the recent election--nay because of it--I think you can still get a lot from this book. The authoritarians aren’t going away.


The studies explain so much about these people. Yes, the research shows they are very aggressive, but why are they so hostile? Yes, experiments show they are almost totally uninfluenced by reasoning and evidence, but why are they so dogmatic? Yes, studies show the Religious Right has more than its fair share of hypocrites, from top to bottom; but why are they two-faced, and how come one face never notices the other? Yes, their leaders can give the flimsiest of excuses and even outright lies about things they’ve done wrong, but why do the rank-and-file believe them? What happens when authoritarian followers find the authoritarian leaders they crave and start marching together?

I think you’ll find this book “explains a lot.” Many scattered impressions about the enemies of freedom and equality become solidified by science and coherently connected here.

You think I’m pulling your leg? Push the button.

[tclambert]

30. I thought Tom Cruise got that Colonel Jessup guy arrested.

Because THAT is how you HANDLE the truth when it's that ugly.

Only a movie? Are you sure? Really, really sure?

Come to think of it, wasn't Jack Bauer in that movie, torturing his own men with Code Red?

In the movies and on TV, when you torture people, bad guys crack and give up the details of their plot, but good guys always lie to the bad guys and turn them against each other. "It's your boss! He was the one feeding us the information! He's playing both sides and he's going to kill you as soon as he gets the diamonds!"

[fascisthunter]

38. treason

[Uncle Joe]

4. This is an outstanding column, well worth the read, Larissa asks some very

basic, logical, common sense, fundamental questions and the corporate media don't.

"We have detained these men for years, refusing to release even a picture of them to the public claiming that national security reasons override the rule of law and then as if by magic and as President Obama moves to cut off the military industrial feeding troth, suddenly all 5 detainees admit their guilt. Wait, and the kicker is not only do the 5 admit their guilt, but they sing it with joy, despite some of them and their attorneys not even being aware that this filing was being introduced. The military court, apparently no longer concerned about national security and in violation of an order given by their Commander to halt all such proceedings, accepted the filing and set it free for the public to consume. Secrecy games are political and this is politics, make no mistake about that.

Now I am not saying these 5 were not involved in 9/11. In fact, the most damning evidence - the little of it we have been given - implicates KSM. But again, I am not discussing the who and what of 9/11 here. I am addressing this level of crazy that we now call law and order. Since when can someone admit guilt through the filing of someone who is not their own attorney and without being made aware that such an admission was being filed on their behalf?"

[BuyingThyme]

5. Exactly. We're going to hear this bullshit

from all the Nazi congressmen who are trying to keep the concentration camps open.

[tclambert]

32. "But we gave them lemon chicken."

REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R), CALIFORNIA

[SalmonChantedEvening]

6. Somebody's unhappy they're losing their job at the Gulag. n/t

[annabanana]

7. You may be onto something. . . . n/t

[SalmonChantedEvening]

8. Besides middle age?

Hey there anna :hug:

[G_j]

13. mmm..

[damntexdem]

9. That ain't no spoon -- it's a ladle.

But now that the five have pled guilty, they can be sentenced in a civilian court. Take them out of the military commissions and shut those down.

[Politicalboi]

25. They need to be tried

They were tortured into giving their plea. This is a good time to re investigate 9/11. Lets see the evidence. They face the death penalty. I prefer to see Bush/Cheney put to death for 9/11. We all need to see the evidence. No more National Security shit that we can't see the "connections" these men had with Al-CIAda. We deserve to know how 19 men in caves where able to fool NORAD. Shouldn't some heads roll for that? Or a commission that looks into why WTC 7 fell. Or how G.W. Bush saw the first plane hit and thought it was a "terrible" pilot. Shouldn't he have known 2 planes were hijacked that morning? Shouldn't he have put 2+2 together. I know it's Bush. LOL! I want to know. This video show Bush lying about the morning of 9/11.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALtNYBX7OmM&feature=related

[BrklynLiberal]

10. Just like the Orange Alerts everytime prez shit-for-brains' approval rating started to sink..

[dmr]

11. Sounds like Cheney is working behind the scenes again n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. THere is more... let's assume these guys said this on their own

a very real possibility

To them this is war

Why wouldn't they be proud of a successful operation?

My god, are people this idiotic? Soldiers, yes they see themselves as such, are proud of successful operations

Not unlike Allied troops after WW II...

So the stupid are fed what they lack understanding off... if you think about this the way this is... soldiers are proud of their work... simple as that

No need to be afraid of the boogeyman

[lib_wit_it]

18. Right, did we expect Gitmo was gonna make them sorry and ashamed of hating America?

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. GITMO if anything, made them more sure

that they are morally right

The problem with war is that to go there, you need to be sure you are right.

Anybody who wants to understand this, need to either read a bit of military history, and accounts from POWs from many countries and wars, or just Hedges's War a Force that Gives us Meaning... that will be a short intro to this

Why we should not be afraid of the boogeyman, which is what they are trying to do, whoever decided to release this... way, WAAAAYYYYYY too convenient

[bertman]

21. "Too well timed". Definitely. "Idiotic". Depends on what the purpose was. "What purpose . . .

Well, if you wanted to rub the President's nose in the stinking turd that is Gitmo AND simultaneously show him what some of our top brass think of him, I'd say they did a great job of that.

How is this "helping the American cause or . . . keeping the nation safe?" It's not. It's just reinforcing the reich wing's propaganda onslaught that says these terrists need to be tortured, held indefinitely, then executed.

It's called UNDERMINING the authority of the Commander-in-Chief. If President Obama lets this stand he has been "punked" in the worst possible way by the MIC.

[pitchforksandtorches]

22. Actually they are republicans

[bertman]

23. "Too well timed". Definitely. "Idiotic". Depends on what the purpose was. "What purpose . . .

Well, if you wanted to rub the President's nose in the stinking turd that is Gitmo AND simultaneously show him what some of our top brass think of him, I'd say they did a great job of that.

How is this "helping the American cause or . . . keeping the nation safe?" It's not. It's just reinforcing the reich wing's propaganda onslaught that says these terrists need to be tortured, held indefinitely, then executed.

It's called UNDERMINING the authority of the Commander-in-Chief. If President Obama lets this stand he has been "punked" in the worst possible way by the MIC.

Rec and kick.

President Obama is being "Goebbelsed".

[GreenTea]

24. Great article and writing as always by Larisa Alexandrovna...

"I think we are witnessing the military industrial complex defying the President of the United States and using the attacks of 9/11 to upset the public and gain support for their own objectives. That is the nut graph people. The media has spent all day rehashing this, calling in military experts to decipher the minds of the accused without ONCE asking the two obvious question: how and why?"

[earcandle]

27. Dupesville USA

People of the United States we must ask Obama to tell the military industrial complex to get out of the way and to do what they are told.

Just Get Out!

Some people have to be told over and over again before they wake up.

Remember,, we will do best if we remain non-violent in this evolutionary process.

We are going unstable so we can evolve.
We are engaging in creativity, energy in which something is created from nothing.
So we lose stability and re-assemble into something entirely different on the other side.
Something that works for all of us.

We need a paradigm shift.
One in which we stop our sons and daughters to be in the military
and call those in back home.

Keep it sweet. Ride it like a wave...
Stay flexible, expand to include paradox where things
are true and false at the same time,

Use that tool to find out that what is so, is so what.

Call that your truth to pop out of catch-22's and resist going ballistic.

Feelings are necessary to create a context in which truth is relative, You
have to have a truth in order to relate to another. Right now survival depends
on relationships.

Subjective realities merging constitute peer relations.

Those in deference (dependent on) to teachers, parents, bosses are learning, serving
in order to generate a subjective reality of their own.

We've got to generate happiness some authentic loving to overcome this evil dying in our faces and being ugly about it.

That is what I am talking about! Make it real. Make out for a change. Take a long bath, Take a walk by the lake.

Do something really sweet and innocently fun to taste your humanity. Read the humanities.

I am so alarmed... these are the things I do to stay calm.

[Downwinder]

26. I still want to know how they took down Building 7.

I didn't see an explanation in their news release. Let them prove their statements.

[Usrename]

29. A continuation of the torture regime.

Torture created a false accounting of what happened on 9/11.

This just lets the whole process continue, in complete defiance of the Obama administration's orders.

[harun]

33. Breath of fresh air to see some haven't lost the ability to ask key questions (n/t)

[newtothegame]

34. You would have proposed keeping it secret? Haven't there been enough secrets over the last 8 years?

[leveymg]

35. When this was filed, didn't the court order psychiatric examinations? Were these guys found sane?

If not, why has this been released? If they've been found competent, isn't that also significant?

Indeed.

http://washingtonindependent.com/21363/9-11-detainees-hold-off-on-guilty-pleas

9-11 Detainees Hold Off on Guilty Pleas
By Daphne Eviatar 12/8/08 5:25 PM

As Spencer just noted, it’s yet another day of strange and tumultuous proceedings, the five detainees charged with planning the 9/11 attacks withdrew their initial attempt to plead guilty before the Guantanamo military commission. Although all five detainees this morning sent a letter to the judge indicating they wanted to plead guilty, later in the day, according to the ACLU, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and two other detainees charged with crimes related to the 9/11 attacks said they would postpone entering pleas until the competency of two additional co-defendants is determined.

It’s also unclear whether the military judge in the case is empowered under the Military Commissions Act to accept guilty pleas, and to impose the death penalty, which the government is seeking, or whether a military jury must make those decisions.

And, consider this:

http://blog.aclu.org/author/jrabinovitz/

October 27th, 2008
Posted by Judy Rabinovitz, Immigrants' Rights Project at 5:28 pm Torture & Abuse

The Defendant Who Wasn’t There
(Originally posted on Daily Kos)


SNIP
One of the key issues for the defense — and for the court — is to determine if (GITMO detainee Mohammed) Kamin is competent to waive his right to counsel. Indeed, this is currently an issue in a number of military commission cases where detainees have indicated that they do not want to participate in the proceedings. Defense counsel for Kamin emphasized the "Catch-22" in which he found himself — whether, and how, to represent the interests of a prisoner who has stated that he does not want such representation.

A mental status evaluation that found Kamin competent to participate in the proceedings was recently conducted by two military doctors — one, Col. Elspeth Cameron Ritchie, has been criticized for assisting in the interrogation process — even though the doctors had never met or observed the defendant. Understandably, defense counsel objected to the adequacy of that evaluation emphasizing the need for a civilian psychiatric expert who could challenge its findings and offer advice on representing a detainee who was resistant to such representation. The defense is proposing a civilian psychiatric expert experienced in working with terrorism suspects. The prosecution objected to the need for a civilian expert and insisted that if an additional defense expert was warranted, that person should come from the military. The judge did not rule on the issue. However, he asked the prosecution to start the process of identifying such an expert, while promising that the defense would have an opportunity to challenge the expert’s qualifications.

A key issue in all of the military commission cases is the government’s withholding of documents that are critical for a full and fair hearing. (Indeed, earlier in the week the government dismissed without prejudice five military commission cases, citing, in some accounts, new material received from government agencies which required reassessment of the cases.) Kamin’s case is no exception. Citing the intelligence community’s "systemic failure" to cooperate, the defense noted that the government’s continued delay in responding to discovery requests would ultimately deprive Kamin of government documents to which he is entitled. Defense counsel argued that dismissal of the case with prejudice was warranted not only as a sanction for the government’s failure to comply with the discovery process in a timely manner, but also as a deterrent to the intelligence agencies that continue to drag their feet, jeopardizing the integrity of the process.

[90-percent]

37. Larissa rocks! as usual

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5214213&mesg_id=5214683


My concern is all those moles implanted by Chee-knee that are still in government. i don't want these bastards engineering the assassination of our beautiful President any time in the next eight fucking years!

How many Cheney loyalist kool aid drinkers are on Obama's SECRET SERVICE detail? The BFEE works in obvious ways and GETS AWAY WITH IT EVERY TIME.

It would be kind of cool if these traitors brought down AF1*. And they would sure have a way to cover it up, wouldn't they?

-90% Jimmy

*not that I want that. I'm just fascinated by plane crashes. Good heavens, that would just be a bone crushing loss on top of the losses of RFK, JFK, MLK.

I think Obama's life is all that stands between America and fascism!

[truedelphi]

39. Obama does not want to "bother" with prosecuting

The Deviants that ran our country into the ground for the last eight years. He is all magnanimous or something. But pls, President Obama, spare us the magnanimity and just get these clowns in jail where they belong and where their communications can be monitored. Start with Bush and CHeney and go down the list. I would love to see the heads of the Contracting firms like C.A.C.I., Blackwater and Halliburton in jail as well.

So now we find out that Cheney is STILL running assassination hit squads. And we find out that these several Gitmo prisoners are total evil, able to wipe mankind off the globe apparently from inside their command post at, er, um, GITMO!

All we need to find out next is that there is a switch from one of their prison cells to nuke detonators and we will have the right to blast GITMO and its contents to smithereens!

Film about nuke detonator switch to follow tonight at eleven!

[myrna minx]

40. K&R n/t