A bit of advice if you will... My Grandma is getting scammed big time.

[mikelgb]

These SOBs got her thinking she is winning money and she is sneaking around sending them all of hers. Literally thousands of dollars by our best estimates. She is 84.

It is heart-wrenching to see unfold. She does not believe my family and I when we tell her it is a a scam. We have had two interventions. Tried many things but we can just not convince her that she is never ever going to get a penny back.

I think other members of my family may be on the verge of having her declared incompetent.

Any advice or links on:

A: How to convince her that this is wrong.

B: What is the process of having someone deemed incompetent? Is this wise?

[gcomeau]

1. Details of the scam would be a good place to start...

....if you expect advice on how to deal with it. Basically just saying "they're taking her money" doesn't give anyone a lot to go on.

[Bobbieo]

4. Is this a Nigerian scam? They are everywhere these days.

Would she believe the police?

[mikelgb]

6. Sorry.

It started with junk mail type letters saying she has won a random amount of money and to return immediately with money. She was shoving $20 bills into them and sending them back. Then they started calling her. they got her to go to western unions and wire money for taxes, fees etc before they could give her money. She has not received any money. Obvious scams to anybody.

She now believes that the only reason she has not won is because we have intervenened and she has stopped sending them money.

I have been through her house several times and left with garbage bags full off these junk mail award scams. She saved them all and intended to reply to them all, even though most of them were the exact same. It is almost like a gambling addiction.

there are many more details might be better if you ask questions so much to tell

[Warpy]

10. I hope you saved the junk

because you need to take it to the cops RIGHT NOW.

[tanngrisnir3]

11. Report it to the police. I've dealt with this before, and there are....

multiple laws to address financial swindling of this nature.

A visit from a detective is usually all that's needed to get her seeing straight.

It's worked for me, in any case.

[mikelgb]

14. I have thought many times about getting her to see an authority figure

her local pd said we could come in... but they would not send anybody out

I was thinking an actor, but we are trying to convince her she is being deceived after all

[DeepBlueC]

24. don't use an actor

That is a crime in itself, incidentally.

[Terran]

15. Your state should have a consumer fraud division...

possibly with your AG's office? I'd call them immediately...and take away your grandmother's ATM card.

[EFerrari]

19. When was the last time a doc assessed her?

This sounds like a cognitive problem.

[madaboutharry]

2. Your family should seek legal advice

immediately. The attorney will also be able to contact the appropriate authorities to report those who are operating the scam.

[mikelgb]

8. we have filed a complaint with the feds... and don't expect any response

my grandma is the only one in the family who could afford a lawyer...

[Terran]

16. No, go to your state authorities.

What state are you in?

[EFerrari]

21. Or maybe a call to the DA's Office. If they can't help,

maybe they have a referral.

[EOTE]

3. What a sad situation.

You might have done this already, but there are lots of websites about scams and people who have been scammed. If you can find this particular scam on one of these websites, showing her might convince her. Also, if she sees many others who have been harmed by similar scams, that might help turn her around. If you'd like help finding any of these sites, let me know.

[mikelgb]

12. yeah we showed her those... and a dr. phil all about people just like her

the weird thing is on most all other things she is very cautious... she shreds all her mail because she is worried about identity theft... imagine that!

[GCP]

5. You need to get her declared incompetent

She's unable to understand that what these scammers are doing is wrong. She probably has dementia. You need to get a doctor to evaluate her and a court to make one of the relatives her legal guardian or power of attorney.

On edit - I'm a visiting nurse and I've sen this before. I had an elderly patient who was convinced he had won money from Readers Digest, you know the sort of thing - 'you may already be a winner' - only he didn't read it like that, he was in winner in his mind, and kept on sending them money for their crappy gewgaws. At least Readers Digest is relatively benign compared to some of the scum out there.

The point is, she won't listen to you. If you want to save her from giving away all her money, you have to act as above.

[Warpy]

7. Most states have an office under the Attorney General

that deals with scams. If they have this one on record, they might be able to help you to get through to her. Even the local police if it's a good sized city will be helpful. There is nothing like being visited by police detectives who want details to give somebody getting scammed a reality check.

Competence is determined by the courts following psychological interviews. Being scammed isn't proof in and of itself of incompetence. You'll need an attorney who is familiar with the process. The Bar Association can direct you.

The only other thing I can think of is cutting communication by changing her phone number or monitoring her mail, however these bastards are getting in touch with her.

Right now she's a willing victim and short of attacking the whole thing legally there's not much you can do about it.

[PA Democrat]

9. Have you contacted your state's attorney general's office?

I'll bet they have info on these people to show her, plus they should be advised of you grandma's dealings with them. I would quickly contact an attorney for advice on acquiring legal guardianship before these people wipe her out.

[mikelgb]

13. Most of the players here are out of country

the local authorities said we had to deal the the ftc

[ohheckyeah]

17. What's the name of the company doing the scamming?

There are sites that will help to expose them.

[burythehatchet]

18. Offer to verify what the scammers are doing and get your state attorney apprised

You have a careful balancing act because she has a psychological need for independent decision making and declaring her incompetent can harm her mental AND physical well being. It should be a last resort. If you have the time and patience, investigate the scammer and also check with your state attorney to see of they have prior records on the scam.

[tammywammy]

20. I would let family members go through with declaring her incompetent

Assign someone as power of attorney and start handling her bank account for her.

Seek a lawyers advice on how to follow through with it.

[burythehatchet]

22. Folks - I work with the elderly and with these economic conditions ALL seniors

are targets. Your elders are going to be targeted and they need your vigilance.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090217/METRO/902170362/1409/METRO

[DeepBlueC]

23. even people who are competent fall for this stuff

I wonder if you could get some help from the Fraud Squad of your local police department? It's not a case for them but you might ask very ingratiatingly if anyone from the Department might be willing to speak to her about these lottery frauds; explain what you have done already & how desperate you are. These are people she might trust enough to believe. Having someone declared incompetent is a radical step and should be avoided unless incompetence in ordinary living is markedly demonstrated. I think when you had interventions you may have come at her with your own understanding when what she needs to see is hard evidence. The evidence she has she perceives as hard and you need to match that in kind. It may take someone she considers an impeccable authority which is why I suggest the cops.


The simple approach is: ask if she bought a ticket. If she did not then she has not won a lottery. Lottery funds come exclusively from ticket sales. No sales: no no money; no prizes. Can you get the letter? Just google the lottery name and you will find it listed on a dozen or more fraud-buster sites. That's how I had to prove the point to my neighbor who ought to know better but whose need for cash seems to make her more willing to believe in miraculous strokes of fortune. You may be well beyond talking he out of this yourself with logic though. Anyone who gets caught up in this stuff is bing manipulated by very skillful crooks who probably have ways of explaining away any of the questions you may have brought up.

Or you could have a shot at contacting AARP and asking if they know of any local resources for protecting seniors from such fraud.

[DURHAM D]

25. Start with her doctor.

Your Grandmother may have received a dementia diagnosis already but no one in the family is aware of it. From personal experience, I can say that doctors who take care of elderly patients are always relieved when a competent family member steps up. They may start by telling you about the privacy acts, etc. but if you keep talking to them and let them use their best judgment they will find a way to convey to you the extent of the problem they have observed.

Next, re-direct her mail to one of her children - the child who is going to step up and monitor everything going forward. Add that child to the signature card. If you don't completely trust the designated child then your grandmother's checking/savings acct/credit cards should be setup online so that all of the children can monitor activity on the accounts. It is as important to watch for the anticipated deposits as well as the expenses. If need be, have a family meeting among the siblings. Set up the rules and take minutes.

If your grandmother lives in a small or medium size town her bank, her doctor and staff, her neighbors, and everyone up at the church is already aware that she needs help. I just hope that one of her children lives nearby. Otherwise, it gets much more complicated.

Myself and my brother have been paying my sister who lives in the same town as my parents for many years to take care of their financial and medical stuff. Everything is online so we can all check it. My parents feel very secure knowing that a full committee is helping them manage their lives.