Secret ballots should supersede everything, including forming a union

[question everything]

and... I don't even see the benefits of the card check.

Supposedly it is hard to conduct secret balloting since employers can harass employees. But if they know how you voted with that sign-up card, wouldn't you be harassed even more? At least, with a secret vote they cannot select the "trouble maker" to make an example. Yes, I know, DUers usually do not hide their opinions in the work place. But most workers do. Especially these days. Thus, workers should be able to keep their opinion of whether to join a union - or to form a bible group - secret.

Not only that, workers should be able to keep their preferences secret even from their fellow co-workers. Some may choose to vote NO on forming a union, but they do not need any grief from fellow co-workers.

:shrug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. One third of the workers request a secret ballot, guess what you get

secret ballot, next

[question everything]

4. But they still have to stand up and be counted

in determining how to proceed. And, no doubt, the activists who have no problem stating their stand, will determine how to proceed, while the ones with a family of five to support, who just want to be left alone will say nothing. At least, with a secret ballot, they may gather the courage to at least vote YES.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. You sure? Look this is meant to scare people

Card check is a method successfully used in Western Democracies, and other places

Connect a dot please

Who is raving against it?

Management

Since when did they care about your rights?

And as I said, you get 1\3 you get a secret ballot to form or not form a union

[BrklynLiberal]

15. You are absolutely right!!! The concept of managment suddenly being so concerned about

workers' rights should immediately set off alarm bells.
There is no way they have the best interests of workers at heart. All this fear-mongering is merely a way to ensure the defeat of
the bill...

[question everything]

16. This is not the point

Secret ballots should be the norm. Any place any time. Whether it is to form a union or a bible study group. In this case the opposing group are the employers. I get it. But what will happen in other instances where the ones insisting on a secret ballot are the good guys? By then you've established a precedent.

It is a matter of principle. When you eliminate secret ballots in one place, you've chipped further in what we consider a sacred right.

(Of course, I also think that filling seats of retiring senators should be done by elections, even if the seat changes party).

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Cingular workers joined the union by simple card check in 2006

where were you then?

This should be raising your alarm bells

WHY NOW?

This is NOT NEW

Just formalizes this as one way to join a union

CLEAR ENOUGH?

[bbinacan]

2. AMEN TOO THAT!!!!!!

I don't want a soul to know how I vote on anything.

[LSparkle]

3. This bill does not ELIMINATE anything ... it only adds another option

Workers can either go through an NLRB union vote or do card
check -- this bill just lets the WORKERS decide how they want
to conduct the election, not their BOSSES (who will obviously
choose the method that gives them the most leverage).

At least I thought this was what Rachel Maddow said the
other night. Dems haven't done a very good job of explaining
exactly what the EFCA is all about, because if everyone knew
what this bill aims to accomplish, I think there would be a
lot more support for it (or at least less suspicion about
it).

[onethatcares]

5. look at it this way.

If someone on the corporate side says it's gonna destroy the workers right to a secret ballot, they're lying.

If someone on the corporate side says it's gonna be better if workers do it the way the corporations want it done, they're lying.

If someone on the corporate side says they won't and don't hold it against the organizers for forming or joining a union, they're lying.

Best bet is to take everything they say (the corporations that is) and believe the exact opposite.

:patriot:

[annabanana]

6. Clearly you have NEVER been at a workplace that is preparing

for a "secret ballot" to establish a union.

http://www.thompson.com/images/thompson/reports/hr052007_union.pdf

[readmoreoften]

10. Nah, this character's a company man through and through.

If there's nothing to be ashamed of for fighting against a union, why not stand up for your anti-union ideas? :shrug: It's not like anti-union people don't attack union people at work.

[question everything]

12. No, I have not

And no one has ever promised me a job security and benefits - which is like most workers. Silly me, I spent time and money getting an advanced degree where usually there would be only one or handful of us in the corporation. And when business was down, we were let go. No "job banks" for us.

Still, if we are going to pass a law, pass one that takes from the early days of voting in the South. Stage Federal marshals that assure that union organizers have a free hand to prepare for a secret ballot and that all employees can enter the voting booth and vote. And assure that the votes are collected and counted with observers from both union HQ and the employer.

[Enrique]

7. as it is now, you don't have a right to a secret ballot

if the employer chooses, they can skip the secret ballot election.

Under EFCA, the choice belongs to the workers, not the employer.

The worker loses nothing under EFCA.

[BlooInBloo]

8. Oh my fucking gawd we're a stupid country.

Just like fucking fox news - spreading the lie.

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/03/11/fox-attacks-unions/

[CreekDog]

9. because if 50% of workers are willing to publicly support a union through card check

then there is no need for an election.

nobody has to sign card check cards in the first place.

secondly, it's pretty hard to fire the 50% that signed those cards.

[livvy]

13. Here are some stories from people who tried to form a union.

There is a process that is followed to form a union. The organizers and others interested in forming the union are frequently harassed and fired while they are going through the process before a vote can even take place.

http://www.aflcio.org/joinaunion/voiceatwork/efca/efca_profile_thg.cfm

http://www.aflcio.org/joinaunion/voiceatwork/efca/efca_profile_dk.cfm

And here is a pretty good explanation of why the Free Choice Act is needed.

"Management Has the Power"
The biggest reason Dianne Heeley supports the Employee Free Choice Act is that she's seen for herself what happens without it. This legislation would give workers who seek to organize into unions the choice of majority sign-up. If a majority of employees in a workplace signed cards stating that they wanted to be represented by a union, they would get their union.

Currently, companies control how workers organize. The company—not workers—can decide whether to recognize the workers' union with majority sign-up or to force workers into an election process, which companies can easily delay or completely derail. The Employee Free Choice Act will give to workers the choice of how they form their union.

snip

The workers contacted a local union. It agreed to help them organize and advised them to ask other workers to sign cards stating they wanted a union. "Out of about 30 people," Heeley says, "we had everyone but one sign a card." Yet when the National Labor Relations Board finally held a union representation election for the workers, "we won the election by just one vote."

What eroded the nearly unanimous union support to a one-vote margin was an intimidating campaign by management to stop the union at all costs.

"Management pulled the workers into the office and threatened them," Heeley notes. "A lot of people fell for it. I remember watching them go into the office one by one, and when they came out, they were really scared. They knew I was pro-union, and they wouldn't even make eye contact with me."

Management was aware Heeley had been asking her fellow workers to sign cards for union representation. Heeley's manager confronted her with two "incident reports" claiming she had been insubordinate—and then fired her.

more of her story at the link:
http://www.aflcio.org/joinaunion/voiceatwork/efca/efca_profile_dh.cfm

The Free Choice Act gives organizers an additional tool to form unions. It does not eliminate the secret ballot. It provides the option of forming the union in an alternate way.

[David__77]

14. It's just another option.

Anything to strengthen collective bargaining is a good thing - period.

Workers have so few rights at this point we need this, desperately. Any Democrat who opposes it deserves defeat.

[ColbertWatcher]

17. It is a choice. EFCA makes the way the shop votes a choice.

All it is is a choice.

A choice.

That's all.

A choice.

[KamaAina]

18. In a general election, management is not allowed to lobby during work hours

although Wal-Mart certain large employers do it anyway.

But in a union certification election, as things stand now, they can and do, while the organizers can only do so outside work hours. This tilts the playing field in favor of management.

Changing that might be as effective as card check, without provoking a union-busting stampede from not only conservatroids but self-professed liberals like Mickey Kaus. :eyes:

[Sgent]

20. The problem with card check

is union coercion. The can coerce me into signing the card check option through peer pressure (or worse) -- even if I would prefer secret ballot, or not to sign at all.

At least with a secret ballot I can sign the union card, then vote how I really feel. I don't have that option otherwise.

[fishwax]

21. employees can still petition for a secret ballot

[Enrique]

23. union coercion is illegal

if they do it they can be brought up on charges with the NLRB.

With the secret ballot, the employer has means of coercion which are not considered illegal.

And once again, EFCA does not eliminate the secret ballot.

[Juche]

24. Management intimidates far more often than unions

An example I remember from the election was this:


Imagine you have a presidential campaign, and only Barack Obama is allowed to run and air campaign ads. He is also allowed to fire McCain's staffers and force voters to watch pro-obama/anti-mccain information. He can threaten to shut down the country if he loses the election.



That is the current situation with labor law. Corporations can intimidate, fire and threaten pro union workers and they can threaten to shut down the company if people vote for the union. I can't find the stats offhand of how many reports come from each side, but I think management intimidation is about 100x more pervasive than union intimidation.

[Juche]

22. The law allows employees to request a secret ballot, not employers

Right now you can get a union via either a card check or card check & secret ballot. You do the card check, then you can request the secret ballot.

Right now the law gives employers the say in which method is used, and they prefer the ballot as it is easier to threaten and intimidate workers with a secret ballot. EFCA gives the choice back to workers so they can decide 'do we want a card check or secret ballot'.


Also unions can be disbanded under current law via card check. So requiring secret ballot to create one while letting them be dissolved via card check makes no sense to me.