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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 05:16 PM
Original message
In storm-ravaged, poverty-stricken Haiti . . . orchids bloom
In storm-ravaged, poverty-stricken Haiti . . . orchids bloom

BY JACQUELINE CHARLES
March 14, 2009


Deep in the plunging valley, in the shadow of a carved-out sand mountain, unexpected beauty blooms.
It thrives in a place of rampant destitution, in an almost magical place, on grounds crowned with towering pines known as the farm of Antoine ''Toni'' Assali. Workers there tend to a staggering collection of colorful cattleyas, queen of the orchids.
There are thousands of them, robust and resplendent in shades of pink and lavender, and the most ubiquitous white. Best known as the corsage orchid, Assali's beauties grow in plain view of a stark symbol of looming ecological disaster, where workers strip construction sand from a bare mountaintop.

Assali's nursery is a slice of Caribbean paradise. And a source of income.
''When I see my flowers in a window at a florist who doesn't know me I am so proud,'' said the Haitian grower. ``They come from a country that produces almost nothing; a country with such a sad reputation.''
For 26 years, Assali has been tending to his Cattleya orchids in this Haitian suburb in the hills above Port-au-Prince.
Once a week -- twice when business was booming -- he and his 20-odd workers cut and meticulously package them in boxes before driving along dirt and rutted roads, honking through the traffic-clogged streets of the capital to the international airport, from whence they are flown to Miami.

.....

And they brighten a land of crushing poverty. ''There is always a little bit of light even in the darkest spots,'' said Assali, a former textile importer who became an orchid collector before rising to a leading cut-flower wholesale grower.

.....

In 1981, as Haiti's once flourishing textiles business began its decline, Assali, who was importing fabrics from Europe, was presented with the opportunity to buy a New Jersey-based orchid company that was going out of business. He later got an Inter-American Development Bank loan from the Haitian government to purchase the four-acre forest where his nursery now sits. Assali terraced the land using meter-high walls made of Haitians stones, built a packing room, dug a reservoir of 50,000 gallons of water and set up prefabricated greenhouses. The plants arrived via boat after two weeks at sea in 68-degree refrigerated 40-foot containers. ''As we were raising the greenhouses from North Carolina, we were receiving the shipments of plants simultaneously,'' he said.

.....

The orchid business hasn't been easy in a country beset with turmoil. It's a reality that Assali always bears in mind, refusing to discuss revenue numbers, always cognizant of the fragile nature of his business in a brittle country.

But the gratification is clear.

''There is nothing you can miss from being in heaven here,'' he says. ``It's incredible that the most luxurious flower in the world is decorating the richest country, coming from the poorest country.''






Hopefully, under the Obama Administration, the US will aid Haiti in ways such as helping provide staples such as cooking oil, so that the forests will not be destroyed for wood, leading to denuded mountains, deadly mudslides and damaged croplands. Haiti used to have thriving farmlands, raising its own food and also exporting food items to other countries.

We hope Haiti will survive the crushing poverty it now endures, and will once again thrive.


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cobalt1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. The biggest problem Haiti has is that it has more people than it can support
Every year they have to net import food, fuel, and materials in order to survive. Any small disruption leads to massive problems.

If they could somehow 1/2 their population, they'd be living in paradise.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Actually that's far from the problem. That's some extreme marginalization of the problem.
Majority of Haiti isn't even populated. You still need a machete to get to places. The problem which most people don't know or choose to ignore is that there is far far far too many people within the Capital, there is no proper form of sewage (many places still use out houses), there is desertification because there are no modern ways of agriculture, and the most toppling of all is that there massive Government corruption. These are just a few that the country faces. Population, however is not the case.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Overpopulation is a problem everywhere
We just have technology to solve it here

Out there, no technology - and they have deforested their side of the island so much that its desert at this point
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. Desertification can be reversed...however that's not the problem.
Have you been to Haiti? They have a massive over population within the capital that is for sure. But there is definitely things that can be done to work out the area that cannot be implemented because the government is way too corrupt. Aid doesn't work unless it's managed. Under Aristide massive Aid was sent to Haiti to no avail and in the mean time due to massive abuse and misuse of the land, added to lack of food, to the lack of work they population has engulfed Port-Au-Prince.

As for technology that is a big problem. That's not to say the nation doesn't have it, however it was forced backward at the demise of Fracois Duvalier.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. no, it's not a desert.
"Haiti was once a self-sufficient rice producer, importing little to none of the rice consumed by its population every year. Yet, since the 1980s, rice production in Haiti has collapsed, threatening the economic well-being of Haitian rice farmers and tens of thousands of others who participate in the cultivation, processing, and sale of Haitian rice.

Though this decline can be blamed on a variety of causes including the poor condition of Haiti's natural environment, and several other factors that have handicapped Haitian farmers ranging from lack of access to capital, to the poor conditions of irrigation canals, trade liberalization policies are at the center of this phenomenon.

Since the adoption of trade policies that have made Haiti the most "open" to trade of all the Caribbean nations, large amounts of cheap American rice imports have entered the Haitian market. Though most people engaged in the debate over trade liberalization in Haiti agree on this point, the different camps come to very different conclusions on what the collapse of rice production means for the Haitian people. This case study will provide some descriptive information on Haitian rice and will include a discussion of the causes of production decline, the impact of this decline, and propose a potential remedy."


The problem is who owns Haiti.

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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Rice Corporation of Haiti (RCH)
Special Issue Report, <1 November 1995>
Washington Office on Haiti (WOH) has just released a SPECIAL ISSUE REPORT about the U.S.-owned Rice Corporation of Haiti, whose parent company has a virtual monopoly on rice imports.

Rice Corporation of Haiti (RCH) began operations when Marc Bazin's coup regime signed a 9-year contract in September 1992. RCH's corporate parent, a powerful U.S. agribusiness giant with headquarters in Houston and Los Angeles, has a history of what the New York Times called tainted trade.

As Haiti confronts extraordinary pressures from USAID, the World Bank, IDB and IMF to reform its economy through structural adjustments, RCH provides a timely example of the kind of project which U.S. corporations are encouraged -- and often funded -- to conduct under the banners of privatization, democracy enhancement and humanitarian assistance.

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/43a/264.html

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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Yup, just posted something of the sort. Don't forget to mention Black Pigs. n/t
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
42. "was once" being the keyword there
I have been there, although only as recently as the early 2000s.

Yes, there is the rainforest there - but it is dying quickly. All you need is 10% deforestation to kill a rainforest.

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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. The other poster is Haitian.
Overpopulation isn't the root cause of Haiti's ills.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Could we agree there are many ills that plague Haiti?
Starting from its inception?
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cobalt1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. There is no way that small island can egolocially support 10 million people
The same goes for any country that relies on food imports to avoid starvation, it's an intrinsically unstable situation.

The majority of Haiti isn't populated or farmed because it's too mountainous and steep. Forget Haiti implementing a "Great Plains" modern agriculture system there. Even the U.S. wouldn't be able to do much with it.

With 1/2 the number of people, Haiti has 90% fewer problems.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. Actually I've always wondered how the census was taken there...
Actually the problem with Haiti was that due to restructuralization (Thanks US) they were forced to import food for starvation. Actually I know very well parts of it are moutainous and steep but that's not the area I speak of...there are barely roadways. The problem is actually the rural area.

Read up on the demise of Black Pigs in Haiti. Read up on what happened to Rice.

Haiti was one of the most self-sufficient nation in the Western Hemisphere next to US until Jean-Claude Duvalier came into power and serious corruption. It wasn't named the Pearl of the Antilles for no reason.

Not to mention, I'm with Amartya Sen, starvation doesn't happen to politically viable nations.

Lastly, how do you know that number is correct?! I'm surprised by these numbers when there are barely proper record systems, I'm sure there is no census count. The US can barely get a head count on it's people but every one knows Haiti's head count.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. It's not correct. Most recent official numbers = neighborhood of 8.5 million.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. I know it's not. It's a waste of time to dispute it though.
I'm not a fan of Haiti threads on this board because many people talk about things they don't know.
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cobalt1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #23
33. Fine I'll give you the 8.5 million number instead of the U.N number of 10 million
It's still far too many for a small island nation to sustainably and ecologically support.
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cobalt1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. Sort of proves my point though.
Edited on Sat Mar-14-09 06:25 PM by cobalt1999
When Jean-Claude Duvalier came into power Haiti had about 1/2 of it's current population.

I agree that starvation doesn't occur to politically viable nations, ESPECIALLY when those nations dont' require food imports in order to survive.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #27
40. The "overpopulation" meme re Haiti has a long history of use as rationalization for the poverty of
most of its people & big-power intervention there:

TIME, 1937:

"French-speaking, Negro Haiti with an area of 10,204 sq. mi. has a population (2,550,000) almost twice that of Spanish-speaking, mainly Mestizo Dominican Republic, area 19,332 sq. mi. For years, overcrowded Haitians have been slipping over the border, squatting on Dominican land."


TIME, 1928 - speaking of 1793!!!

"It was impossible that there should be peace on a crowded island with a population divided three times against itself. The blacks were the first to revolt."


1942:

"Haiti's President, silver-haired Elie Lescot,† negotiated this loan himself last spring, when he was still Minister to the U.S. Longtime (1922-30) Minister of Education & Agriculture, he has for years taken a keen interest in developing new farm products and markets for his small, crowded, beautiful country. His son Henri studied agriculture at Cornell University in 1937-39, has successfully cultivated in Haiti large areas of lemon grass (source of citral for synthetic violet scent, used mainly in cheap soaps)."


1948:

"An investigation in Haiti, said Dr. Huxley, had disclosed that Haiti's problem "is fundamentally one of overpopulation, soil erosion and disease, and is impossible of solution only or mainly by educational methods."


1962:

"To cut off all help, Washington argues, would mean even more misery for Haiti's jampacked (almost 400 per sq. mi.) population. As a European diplomat in Port-au-Prince put the dilemma: "If you help Haiti, you are keeping a gangster in power. If you don't, you're being cruel to a poor Negro people."


1966:

"Life expectancy is 32.6 years. Per-capita income is $70 a year. Population density is the highest in the hemisphere. Illiteracy runs 90%. "Haitians," Duvalier says quietly, "have a destiny to suffer."


1975:

"Ruin & Starvation. Haiti has always been poor. Now it is getting poorer. Per capita income averages $70 a year, per capita food averages 1,780 calories a day, and life expectancy is a bare 32 years−all three the lowest in the hemisphere. Illiteracy is 90%, and population density is 415 persons per square mileboth the highest of any Latin American nation."

"But then there are the utterly impoverished nations—countries like India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Ethiopia, Chad and Haiti. These constitute what is now being called the "Fourth World": countries with burgeoning populations, few natural resources and an undeveloped industrial base."


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cobalt1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #40
49. Gee, they've improved their food production over the century...no surprise.
Edited on Sat Mar-14-09 07:46 PM by cobalt1999
So did everyone. Artificial fertilizers did tthat world wide. What your post says is Haiti has been on the brink for a long time and only made it this far due to stripping their environment or relying on petroleum based fertilizers.

Bottom line: There is a limit to the number of people a small island can support sustainably. Haiti has passed that point without imports or aid would not be able to feed it's own people.

Like it or not, overpopulation is an issue in many places now and it's only getting worse. Stick your head in the sand and believe this planet can support 7, 8, 20 Billion people, but it's a delusion.



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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #49
57. 1. The "overpopulation" meme goes back at least as far as the 20s, per TIME.
The US occupied Haiti 1915-1934.

Why do you think that was, because the US wanted control over a non-fertile, over-populated "desert"?

Quite the contrary. US capitalists were shipping out sugar, tobacco, & fruit while the people went hungry; american capital was writing propaganda about the Haitians' "overpopulation" & "backwardness" as they robbed them.

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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #49
61. One of the articles said the island was overcrowded in 1793:
this when 20,000 whites were working 500,000 slaves & the bulk of the produce was shipped overseas.

The richest land in the americas at the time in terms of the value of its production; the world's leading sugar producer, generating 40% of France's foreign trade.

"The death rate in the Caribbean exceeded the birth rate, so imports of enslaved Africans continued. The slave population declined at an annual rate of two to five percent, due to overwork; inadequate food, shelter, clothing and medical care"

But it was "Crowded".

Because the colonists kept importing more slaves to work them to death for PROFIT, like the multinationals still work people to death, steal from & bankrupt them - for PROFIT.

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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. Population/km2
20 South Korea 498
22 Puerto Rico (US) 446
24 Netherlands 395
25 Lebanon 386
26 Martinique (France) 359
29 Marshall Islands 342
30 Belgium 341
31 Japan 339
32 India 336
33 El Salvador 327
35 American Samoa 326
36 Israel 325
37 U.S. Virgin Islands (US) 322
38 Sri Lanka 316
39 Réunion (France) 313
40 Guam (US) 309
41 Haiti 307


"Overpopulation" & "environmental degradation" is the cover story for Haiti's poverty. The real reasons lie elsewhere.
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cobalt1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #22
35. Silly ratio
Any junior high kid can tell you that not all environments are equal.

Antarctica has the lowest population/km2, it's also the least able to support a human population without imports.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. Can Belgium support its population without imports?
Can Japan?

south Korea?

Can the UK?

Haiti ain't anarctica. It was the richest agricultural producer in the hemisphere around the 1700s/1800s. Its erosion problems have political causes; they're not inherently the result of overpopulation.
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cobalt1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. Sustainably is the key word
Japan & South Korea supplement by extensive commercial fishing of the oceans and once fish stocks collapse in the predicted next 40 years, no they won't be able to either.

How many people were they supporting in the 1700s? 1800? Based on the terrain, do you honestly think that island can sustainably and ecologically support 8-10 million people?
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tangent90 Donating Member (787 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
52. Overpopulation is ABSOLUTELY the case. Five people in an ecosystem that can
only support 3 is grossly overpopulated. All the other "problems" you mention flow directly from that situation.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #52
59. You are so wrong it's not funny.
Before Haiti's population ever exploded to the millions the people have been suffering from all the problems I mentioned. I know Haitian history too well not to know the problems it faces. There's not even a case of over population as people like to say. Seriously there isn't. Port-au-Prince is definitely densely populated and that's one of the biggest problems. However overall...not the nation.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Yes - and it could support more if they hadn't have deforested it earlier
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
47. pfft.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Um ... Haiti shares an island with the Dominican Republic. Here is an aerial view ...
... guess which side is Haiti and which side is the Dominican Republic ...



It's more than just population; you also have to consider policy as well.

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cobalt1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I know, I've been to both.
However, both are importing food. DR just is more stable and has more money to insure a more consistent influx of food. In both cases though, it's a dangerous situation.

Policy and governments are just factors that disrupt the imports.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. We've had this food argument on DU before.
I'm just sorry I can't find the links to the previous threads.

The point is: policies shape where food originates on the island.

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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Exactly. n/t
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cobalt1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
31. I don't remember any previous argument, so maybe we have covered this ground before.
Edited on Sat Mar-14-09 06:22 PM by cobalt1999
Policies shape where food originates, HOWEVER, there is a limit to the number of humans a small island can ecologically support. Just as there is a limit to the number of humans the Earth can ecologically and sustainably support.

Once a nation surpasses that point and requires imports, there are especially susceptible to disruptions. Those disruptions are usually political but can also be economic, or even hurricanes.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
26. the us imports food. so does japan. so do many countries.
says nothing re their ability to produce food.
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cobalt1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #26
36. The US isn't a NET importer of food.
Every country imports something. The important thing is can they support their population on what they produce. If not, any disruption leads to starvation.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #36
43. RE Net food importers:
Edited on Sat Mar-14-09 07:20 PM by Hannah Bell
http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/2/9/211544/4045

U.S. about to become net food importer

A little over a year ago The Wall Street Journal (31 Jan 2005) reported that the U.S. would become a net food importer on a more or less permanent basis by the end of 2005.


U.S. to Become Net Food Importer by Doug Pibel

www.yesmagazine.org/article.asp?ID=1238 - 85k


Do you think it's our "overpopulation"?


South Africa

http://www.emergingsouth.net/2009-the-year-of-food/



but not India:

"India is not a net food importer. It is a food exporter. The assumption that prices are increasing because of a changed India is completely erroneous," said Manish Tewari, a spokesman for the ruling Congress party."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/07/AR2008050703405.html


Political decisions & economic power shape food supply & food self-sufficiency.
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cobalt1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. Yes, any country that is a NET food importer is living beyond their environment
What's so hard to understand about that?

Population in the U.S. has grown faster than own food production for years now. No surprise there is an end point. Mathematically, there is a limit on how many people the Earth can sustainably support.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. no, they're not. because the decision to import food is made on PRICE,
PROFIT, & POLITICAL criteria, not on ability or lack of ability to produce food.

The US has CUT BACK on cropland & it's about PRICE, POLITICS & PROFIT, not production capacity.

Sorry, you're clueless.
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cobalt1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Fine, have it your way
The world is fine, we can continue to increase our populations indefinitely. There are no environmental issues associated with increasing human numbers. The seas aren't over fished. Natural habitat isn't being wiped out to produce more food daily.

Fine, our problems are all about politics.

Sheesh, you sound like a global warming denier...claim anything, just don't blame PEOPLE.

Talk about clueless.

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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #53
60. Nope, I'm talking about specific facts, you're talking about some big picture.
of course human populations can't increase indefinitely, of course there are environmental issues associated with higher population.

However:

1. Environmental degradation & high population didn't cause Haiti's poverty.

2. Furthermore, Haiti's environmental problems can be mitigated.

3. Furthermore, Haiti can produce more food than it does, & has in the very recent past; the reduction is the result of policy decisions, not desertification.

4. Furthermore, food production in the US, as in many places, is being offshored to cheaper producers, not because the US is an overpopulated desert that can't feed its people - do you actually BELIEVE what you wrote? - but for PROFIT.


India is self-sufficient in most foodstuffs & one of the world's leading producers of grains, despite high population density & widespread environmental damage.

Japan was self-sufficient in rice not too long ago & would still be if not for pressure from the US & purchasing mandates in trade deals. I've lived there; cities are crowded, the countryside not so much.

The world produces 600 million tons of rice/yr. "Overpopulated" China, India & Indonesia produce more than half of it.

Only 5% of the 600 million tons is exported, & tiny, "overpopulated" Vietnam & Thailand grow nearly half of that 5%.



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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Haiti's biggest problem is that following her successful revolution
and the introduction of the first constitution on the planet that banned slavery, she has never been allowed to develop in peace by either the French or the Americans. The level of political and economic interference in Haiti is mind-blowing.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Thank you!
Why, I remember when Haiti elected someone using that "democracy" thing, but apparently they did it wrong because Dumbass fixed it for them.

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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. Mentioned this and it was ignored. The US is to blame for 1/3 if not half of Haiti's problems.
Political corruption seems not to be on the plates of anyone. Whatever...
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. You're right
Haiti is painful to me because when they abolished slavery they welcomed enslaved Caribbean people. Once our ancestors landed in Haiti, they were free men and women. That was never acceptable to either British planters or American slave owners and it went all the way to the top.

Haiti is the reason for my love-hate relationship with Frederick Douglass.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
39. Have you ever seen how rich Haitians live?
Madoff is small change to those people.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. You do realize most of the crushing poverty is blamed on the various US invasions right?!
Let's just say...Haiti doesn't really want to welcome America. 3-4 Times the US has come it has aided in killing a bit more of Haiti.
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Aloha Spirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. Cruise ships throw away more food in a day than most residents of Port-au-Prince see in a year,
Edited on Sat Mar-14-09 05:25 PM by Aloha Spirit
"It is this world, a world where cruise ships throw away more food in a day than most residents of Port-au-Prince see in a year, where white folks' greed runs a world in need, apartheid in one hemisphere, apathy in another hemisphere...That's the world! On which hope sits!" -Barack Obama

At least we know, regardless of what he does, that he knows.

Hope reigns supreme.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. This would be interesting if orchids were edible.


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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
11. They have an abundance of solar power that could be used for
cooking but I have never understood why it is not used that way. Many countries that are suffering from deforestation have great solar potential. We really need to invent some very simple cooking devices that can use it.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
21. Question...Am I the ONLY Haitian-American (born in Haiti) on this thread?!
Edited on Sat Mar-14-09 06:03 PM by vaberella
Cause I see a lot of assumptions based on some books when there are major factors that relate to the problems Haiti faces.

Oy, let me stay away from Haiti threads. It's just not functional.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. Don't stay away
Post the facts.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Will do. Vous etes Ayitien? n/t
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. I'm your neighbour
Jamaican :hi:

I just put on David Rudder's Haiti I'm sorry

When there's anguish in Port-Au-Prince
It's still Africa crying
We're outing fires in faraway places
When our neighbours are just burning.
They say the Middle Passage is gone
So how come overcrowded boats still haunt our lives?
I refuse to believe that we good people
Would forever turn our hearts and eyes
Away.

Haiti I'm sorry
We misunderstood you,
But one day we'll turn around
And look inside you.
Haiti I'm sorry
Haiti I'm so sorry...
But one day we'll turn our heads,
Restore your glory.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #34
45. edit, wrong poster.
Edited on Sat Mar-14-09 07:17 PM by Hannah Bell
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. why leave? refute the bullshit claims.
the overpopulation/environmental degradation meme has a long, long history of use to rationalize the poverty of some countries - china, india, japan, much of latin america, etc. were once said to be poor for the same reasons.

bullshit then, bullshit now. you can pull out articles about haiti from the 50s talking about their "overpopulation" causing their poverty. written by cia-funded "journalists".
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. No Doubt. It's so exhausting. Especially when know half the people aren't listening.
My whole existence has been to focus on redevelopment and studying redevelopment---in "developing nations". Haiti being my supreme concern. Many of the people here resurrect a lot of the frustration I felt sitting through my development courses which implied heavily that developing nations are impossible to change and over-population is the major culprit. Shit...I had one teacher tell me that nations closer to the equator are underdeveloped because it's to hot to grow things there. I felt like hurling my textbook at him.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. I would have hurled the text book and walked out
Academics on our part of the world are now including the impact of hurricanes on our development as well these days. We can't have islands being hit by Cat 3 and 4 hurricanes and not throw the real cost of that devastation in the mix.

That said Haiti has been terrorized by outsiders preoccupied with their own interests and agenda. The US and France have always wanted Haiti to remain poor. They owned the Duvaliers.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #38
55. I'm glad you joined this thread.
So much misinformation going around.

People need facts and I just didn't have enough.

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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-15-09 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #38
58. Completely true. Surprisingly enough though there was massive cultural improvement
albeit under terror with Francois Duvalier during him and after him the US definitely wrecked havoc. It wasn't only them. Years before it was the Spanish and most people don't know, however my family is living proof of it, the German invasion into Haiti.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #30
54. I'm glad you joined this thread.
So much misinformation going around.

People need facts and I just didn't have enough.

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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #21
56. I agree with Hannah and Malaise: don't leave.
Calmly and methodically refute all the lies/misinformation.

Everyone in the thread will learn, everyone lurking will learn.

And best of all, when the next Haiti thread comes along, you'll have more people on your side.

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