Obama and generals consider expanding drone strikes to targets in and around Pakistan cities

[bigtree]

President Obama and his national security advisers are considering expanding the American covert war in Pakistan far beyond the unruly tribal areas to strike at a different center of Taliban power in Baluchistan, where top Taliban leaders are orchestrating attacks into southern Afghanistan.

According to senior administration officials, two of the high-level reports on Pakistan and Afghanistan that have been forwarded to the White House in recent weeks have called for broadening the target area to include a major insurgent sanctuary in and around the city of Quetta.

Mullah Muhammad Omar, who led the Taliban government that was ousted in the American-led invasion in 2001, has operated with near impunity out of the region for years, along with many of his deputies.

The extensive missile strikes being carried out by Central Intelligence Agency-operated drones have until now been limited to the tribal areas, and have never been extended into Baluchistan, a sprawling province that is under the authority of the central government, and which abuts the parts of southern Afghanistan where recent fighting has been the fiercest. Fear remains within the American government that extending the raids would worsen tensions. Pakistan complains that the strikes violate its sovereignty.

read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/18/world/asia/18terror.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print

[Juche]

1. I'm not opposed to this

If it can be done in such a way that civilian deaths and muslim rage against the US are kept at a minimum then it should be done. The real terrorists are and always have been in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

[Idealism]

2. What is an acceptable level of civilian deaths to you?

So far from the reports I read on the drone attacks, they have killed many more civilians than anything else. Not to mention cause further resentment against us.

[Juche]

4. I don't know

That is why the JSOC was called off, too many civilian deaths. So to answer your question, I don't know. However back in the late 1990s we had a chance to kill Bin Laden and didn't because he was visiting middle eastern royalty, and killing him would've killed the royalty too.

[Idealism]

5. We also had a chance to peacefully negotiate with the Taliban for him at Tora Bora

and guess what, we didn't.

War is not the answer to extremism. You only breed more extremists and undermine moderates.

[Juche]

7. Negotiate?

I hadn't heard that that was an option. Before the invasion of Afghanistan the Taliban talked about handing Bin Laden over to a muslim nation for trial, but I hadn't heard of Tora Bora having a peaceful resolution. If we could get Bin Laden peacefully then go for it. But in my view, not everything that should be done can be done without military action.

You are right, war is not the answer to extremism. Our aid to Pakistan after the earthquake and to Indonesia after the tsunami did more to combat extremism than anything else we've done. Before those events about 50% of the inhabitants of those countries supported Bin Laden, after it was 25%. The war in Iraq has done alot of damage to our reputation and created tons of new terrorists.

[Idealism]

10. There was is a realitively new book out from a former Army interrogator

that "questioned" Iraqi detainees. He claimed that the number one reason why Al-Qaeda, the Mahdi army, et al has so many new recruits is because of things like Abu Ghareb and the wide-spread use of torture by the United States. He said something in the book to the effect that "more US soldiers have died because of our policy of torture than perished on 9/11."

How to Break a Terrorist: The US Interrogators Who Used Brains, Not Brutality, to Take Down the Deadliest Man in Iraq under the pseudonym Matthew Alexander.

[Juche]

17. Again, not denying it

But if we have decent intelligence that high ranking Al Qaeda figures are somewhere and we can get to them w/o hitting civilians we should do it.

[1]

6. if the bad guys hide behind with their families, what is a president to do?

obama will do the right thing...

[Idealism]

8. And you know for a fact that he is a bad guy, and you know for a fact he is where you think he is?

Do you know how many "terrorist" are imprisoned in Afghanistan because their neighbor, who may covet their property, or their former business associate who feels they were wronged, decided to rat them out to the CIA? At $5,000 per "terrorist" detained, this is a lucrative business if you are willing to lie through your teeth- the best part is the CIA doesn't have any credible way of substantiating it so they just go along and imprison the poor bastard.

Most of these strikes were reportedly no where near "terrorists," and thus you see 30 civilians killed and the military claiming it was 30 militants.

[1]

12. do i know? no. obama does. he is privy to so much more information than me...

obama will do the right thing. even if that means blowing up people and things, whatever "they"... "reportedly"... claim.

obama will do the right thing. as he has several times since assuming office (have you been paying attention?) because he is privy to so much more information than you or i.

that's what presidents do. because they know more than you or i.

can you wrap you mind around that?

[MadHound]

18. Can you wrap your mind around the fact that previous drone attacks, ones Obama ordered

Have actually killed innocent people, and in fact entire families that had nothing to do with Al Qaeda, the Taliban, or bin Ladin?

But hey, keep on defending death and destruction, all's good right because it is "our guy" who is doing the killing:eyes:

[alarimer]

20. So it was not okay when Bush did it, but okay when Obama does?

Because "he knows more"? Bullshit. It was disgusting then and disgusting know.

I hate Obama for this. He should be better than this.

[malaise]

14. I am

This is offensive

[greenkal]

3. Why is Obama attacking a nuclear nation?

If he pisses them off too badly, we will have a nuclear bomb go off in a major American city. WTF!

[No.23]

9. "Heavy civilian casualties after drone attacks" - UNIORB:

http://uniorb.com/RCHECK/drone.htm

[ConsAreLiars]

11. Seems that whenever the question of "How stupid can you be?"

someone new steps up to sat "Look at me!

If true, it is well beyond pathetic. If Obama is that stupid, and I doubt it and hope not, but if is, it's time for us to just bend far over and give our kiss a fond, last, kiss goodbye.

[NNN0LHI]

13. This judge, jury, executioner stuff is un-American

[MadHound]

15. "Obama and generals consider expanding the death toll of Pakistani innocents"

That's what the headline should read, if we were all being truthful here.

Is this more of that "change" he was talking about during his campaign? Seems like more of the same ol' same ol' warmongering bullshit to me.

[closeupready]

16. This is not going to reduce terrorism.

And will actually do just the opposite. You kill someone's family, and guess what, they try to kill you back. But since it doesn't work that way in movies, I guess we're all just going to pretend this is WWII and we are fighting Nazis and Hitler and we can eventually carpet bomb Pakistan. :eyes:

[alarimer]

19. Fuck remote-control killing.

What a cowardly way to do this.

War is not a video game.

[wuvuj]

21. Let's just dig the holes...

...a little deeper...after all...when it rains...guess what...quagmire.

What's a little rain? Peak oil and resources...global warming and extreme weather...economic meltdown...

Once you let Wall Street....the oil companies and the military write foreign policy......??

[LynnTheDem]

22. And no problem when France or Russia or Canada sends in drones

"in and around US cities", right?

We know there are terrorist cells in America. So it's ok for other nations to send in the drones. So a few American citizens will die. Oh well, that's acceptable.


. . .

:eyes:




This is what's wrong with America, and until this "American exceptionalism" shit dies, we're going to keep spiraling downwards.

[dysfunctional press]

23. once the pakistani govt. and their nukes fall into the hands of islamic extremists...

we're probably going to regret all this crap BIG TIME.