Focus shifts to flow of cash, arms into Mexico

[L. Coyote]

Washington - -- California lawmakers and the Obama administration have begun to shift U.S. border policy with Mexico, abruptly changing focus from illegal immigration to the flow of cash and weapons from the United States that is fueling a savage war between the Mexican government and powerful drug cartels.

"It is unacceptable to have 90 percent of the guns that are picked up in Mexico and used to shoot judges, police officers, mayors, kidnap innocent people and do terrible things come from the United States," Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., said at a hearing Tuesday. "I am appalled that you can buy a 50-caliber sniper weapon anywhere and it's not restricted to a federal firearms dealer - you can just buy it."

Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-San Jose, chairwoman of the House Judiciary Committee panel on immigration and border security, faulted the Bush administration for focusing on northbound immigrants and neglecting southbound arms and drug cash that some analysts contend are destabilizing the Mexican government.

"It was a priority policy decision that tens of thousands of agents would go arrest dishwashers and busboys, meanwhile letting the machine guns get smuggled into Mexico, which has contributed to a very serious problem in Mexico that should concern all Americans," Lofgren said in an interview.

"Nobody is for people not adhering to the rules, but if I had to say what's more threatening to me, some guy busing my table or some guy shipping machine guns down to the drug cartels, I'd say it's the latter."
U.S. weapons

Government officials say 90 percent of the arms in the drug wars come from the United States, including grenades and rocket launchers. Southbound drug cash is estimated as high as $25 billion a year. ...........

............. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/17/MND616HC2C.DTL

[babylonsister]

1. Good! That's where the focus should be imo. nt

[slackmaster]

2. Oh teh noes, the old "some guy shipping machine guns down to the drug cartels" canard again

Machine guns, explosives, and other military arms are not available in the US civilian sporting arms market.

Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-San Jose, chairwoman of the House Judiciary Committee panel on immigration and border security, faulted the Bush administration for focusing on northbound immigrants and neglecting southbound arms and drug cash that some analysts contend are destabilizing the Mexican government.

"It was a priority policy decision that tens of thousands of agents would go arrest dishwashers and busboys, meanwhile letting the machine guns get smuggled into Mexico, which has contributed to a very serious problem in Mexico that should concern all Americans," Lofgren said in an interview.

"Nobody is for people not adhering to the rules, but if I had to say what's more threatening to me, some guy busing my table or some guy shipping machine guns down to the drug cartels, I'd say it's the latter."

So, she's pushing for legislation that has NOTHING TO DO with machine guns.

:crazy:

[RaleighNCDUer]

3. Canard:

A false, malicious report that has been fabricated with the intention of doing harm.

NOBODY is saying that people are buying grenades and machine guns at the local fucking sporting goods store.

You are DELIBERATELY conflating two completely different issues to make it look like the gubbmint is about to outlaw the sales of all guns and that is a fucking LIE.

ILLEGAL weapons, transshipped from war zones overseas or stolen from military or guard armories, are being shipped to the cartels. The US/Mexican border is a favored transit point because we are watching everything coming IN and nothing going OUT.

There is a fucking civil war going on there, and WE are arming it.

Grow the fuck up.

[slackmaster]

7. The military arms are coming from Central America, not the US

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mexico-arms-race15-2009mar15,0,7497626,full.story

NOBODY is saying that people are buying grenades and machine guns at the local fucking sporting goods store.

You don't see it because you are not very familiar with the subject. I am, so let me help you out. From the article cited in the OP:

U.S. weapons

Government officials say 90 percent of the arms in the drug wars come from the United States, including grenades and rocket launchers. Southbound drug cash is estimated as high as $25 billion a year. With the death count last year in Mexico at 6,290, more than the United States has lost in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, Mexican officials are pleading with U.S. counterparts to help stop the southbound smuggling and focus on reducing U.S. drug consumption.

Feinstein produced a letter from Mexican Ambassador Arturo Sarukhan urging "shared responsibility" for the drug problem. Sarukhan said that in 2007, there were 7,600 federally licensed arms dealers in U.S. border states and 50,000 nationwide, but the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms inspected just 5 percent of them. An assault weapons ban sponsored by Feinstein expired in 2004, but there is no appetite in Congress to renew it.

This is a dishonest attempt to make people believe that the expired AW ban had something to do with grenades and rocket launchers. It did not. Shipping something "down" means from north to south. THAT is the canard I am referring to.

The military arms may have originated in the USA, but they are NOT being smuggled from the USA into Mexico.

[RaleighNCDUer]

8. Where, in anything you cited, does it say the military arem are NOT being

smuggled from the USA into Mexico?

Government officials say 90 percent of the arms in the drug wars come from the United States, including grenades and rocket launchers.

You cited the very quote which is 180 degrees away from what you are claiming.

THIS is why people like YOU are called 'gun nuts'.

[slackmaster]

11. You are completely missing the point

The grenades and rocket launchers and machine guns and other military weapons "came from" the USA only in the sense that they were manufactured in the USA as military weapons for use by the US military.

Their location immediately previous to being in Mexico, was NOT in the USA. Those weapons are leftovers from US-backed campaigns in Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, etc.

Please read the Los Angeles Times article I cited.

[Hoopla Phil]

12. Her ya go

This is why people like you are considered anti-gun nuts. If ANYTHING is said that says guns are bad you swallow it without the simplest of questions. Like, where in the U.S. can you buy rocket launchers? Dug

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mex...


MEXICO UNDER SIEGE
Drug cartels' new weaponry means war

Narcotics traffickers are acquiring firepower more appropriate to an army -- including grenade launchers and anti-tank rockets -- and the police are feeling outgunned.
By Ken Ellingwood and Tracy Wilkinson
5:53 PM PDT, March 13, 2009

The Feb. 21 attack on police headquarters in coastal Zihuatanejo, which injured four people, fit a disturbing trend of Mexico's drug wars. Traffickers have escalated their arms race, acquiring military-grade weapons, including hand grenades, grenade launchers, armor-piercing munitions and antitank rockets with firepower far beyond the assault rifles and pistols that have dominated their arsenals.

Most of these weapons are being smuggled from Central American countries or by sea, eluding U.S. and Mexican monitors who are focused on the smuggling of semiauto- matic and conventional weapons purchased from dealers in the U.S. border states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California.




Well well well. I've been reading a lot in the news lately about the "U.S. Gun Shows" supplying the cartels with weapons but have been asking, but never hearing, about the bait and switch our politicians are using when they discuss the issue. See, the U.S. politicos are indicting U.S. FFL dealers on the straw purchases of SEMI-AUTO hand guns and rifles but then go on to talk about the heavy firepower the cartels have. The result is to give the false (intentionally maybe) impression that the cartels are getting this heavy firepower from the U.S. Looks like the truth has finally been tracked down.

[Hoopla Phil]

13. And here is some more curtisy of DU member Spin, Thank you Spin

The next day I went into work and sat down with a trusted senior Mexican manager. I looked at him and said, "I thought guns were illegal in Mexico." He chuckled and said, "So you stayed in town last night?" As the conversation progressed, it became clear that guns are as common in Mexico as tamales at Christmas. Everyone he knows, including himself, own at least one gun. And, it matters not whether it's a semi-auto or fully automatic, they're all illegal, so why stop with semi-autos? Though clearly illegal in the states in most instances, a lot of Mexicans have more firepower in terms of military weapons than we can only dream of owning here.

As time went on, parties in the city at middle class Mexican homes become a way of life. Most Mexican managers in the plant knew I was a gun wonk. As it turns out, they couldn't wait to invite me over to their place on a Friday night to show me their collection. Semi-autos, some very high-end Sigs and other European handguns were not uncommon along with piles of old revolvers. I thought I had seen everything in the states, but in Mexico it's not uncommon for people to own full-auto military rifles. Everything from an M16, UZI machine pistols and the most popular, select-fire AK47 military rifles. These are not the so-called "assault weapons" you can buy at the local gun shop in the U.S., but full select-fire military-issue rifles. Now, I know you want to know and are dying to ask; Did I see any U.S. military-issue weapons stolen from the U.S. military? Not a single one was marked with U.S. military markings. Everything was marked with additional foreign markings on the receiver, including M16 rifles, or they had nothing at all. I saw firearms manufactured in Europe, China, Russia and South America along with U.S. manufactured weapons. I saw rifles that looked familiar with no place of manufacture, no serial number or manufacturer's logo. The information was not removed, it was never there to begin with. I can only assume they came from illegal arms manufacturers in India or Pakistan that produce copies of weapons. It was obvious that none of these firearms came from a U.S. gun shop in Tucson or San Diego. You couldn't buy them from a gun shop in the states if you tried.
http://www.gunnewsdaily.com/rw807.html

[babylonsister]

4. Why is this a canard?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1596943
U.S. Guns Bolster Mexican Traffickers


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x202651
U.S. Is Arms Bazaar for Mexican Cartels

[slackmaster]

6. The Salon article has been removed, but it mentioned machine guns and fragmentation grenades

Which have nothing to do with the civilian sporting firearms market.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mexico-arms-race15-2009mar15,0,7497626,full.story

[asjr]

5. Are we going to have to make another

stand at the Alamo? At sometime in the last 20 years we lost ourselves.

[anonymous171]

9. Wait, you can legally buy grenades and rocket launchers up here?

[slackmaster]

14. The SF Chronicle has been a piss-poor newspaper for decades

All they do is parrot what they are told. They make no effort to de-conflate or disambiguate what their sources tell them.

[Hoopla Phil]

15. Nope, but why let that get in the way of drumming up support for more useless gun control

[Hoopla Phil]

10. This is a damned lie on it's face!

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mex...


MEXICO UNDER SIEGE
Drug cartels' new weaponry means war

Narcotics traffickers are acquiring firepower more appropriate to an army -- including grenade launchers and anti-tank rockets -- and the police are feeling outgunned.
By Ken Ellingwood and Tracy Wilkinson
5:53 PM PDT, March 13, 2009

The Feb. 21 attack on police headquarters in coastal Zihuatanejo, which injured four people, fit a disturbing trend of Mexico's drug wars. Traffickers have escalated their arms race, acquiring military-grade weapons, including hand grenades, grenade launchers, armor-piercing munitions and antitank rockets with firepower far beyond the assault rifles and pistols that have dominated their arsenals.

Most of these weapons are being smuggled from Central American countries or by sea, eluding U.S. and Mexican monitors who are focused on the smuggling of semiauto- matic and conventional weapons purchased from dealers in the U.S. border states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California.




Well well well. I've been reading a lot in the news lately about the "U.S. Gun Shows" supplying the cartels with weapons but have been asking, but never hearing, about the bait and switch our politicians are using when they discuss the issue. See, the U.S. politicos are indicting U.S. FFL dealers on the straw purchases of SEMI-AUTO hand guns and rifles but then go on to talk about the heavy firepower the cartels have. The result is to give the false (intentionally maybe) impression that the cartels are getting this heavy firepower from the U.S. Looks like the truth has finally been tracked down.

[Hoopla Phil]

16. US Gun Dealer "Not Guilty" in Guns to Mexico trial

http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2009/03/18/20090318guns0318-ON.html


Gottsfield issued a directed verdict of not guilty for Iknadosian, 47, who was charged with fraud, money-laundering and other offenses.