Would $100 marriage-license fee help prevent divorce?

[Ghost in the Machine]

Would $100 marriage-license fee help prevent divorce?
Jeff Kunerth | Sentinel Staff Writer
March 18, 2009


John Stemberger, head of the Orlando-based Florida Family Policy Council, says divorce results in costly poverty programs, but some dispute that claim. (JOE BURBANK, ORLANDO SENTINEL / March 18, 2009)


The leader of the movement to ban same-sex marriage in Florida now wants to make it harder and more expensive for heterosexual couples to marry — and divorce.

Just as he says gay unions would undercut the institution of marriage, John Stemberger thinks the casual way people get married and the ease by which they can divorce threatens the foundation of society. His goal is to change that.

"Harder to get in and harder to get out," said Stemberger, head of the Orlando-based Florida Family Policy Council.

Stemberger's "Strong Marriages Campaign" is promoting a Premarital Preparation bill before the Florida Legislature that would add $100 to the state's marriage-license fee. Those who attend eight hours of premarital counseling would get their money back.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orl-stemberger-divorce-marriage-031809,0,518770.story

Oh great... another "family values" ass cricket...

[Taverner]

1. Um, no

That's just fucking stupid

[phantom power]

2. That's deluded.

[Daxxie]

3. Guy isn't wrapped real tight.....

all that charging $100 for a license would accomplish is that people wouldn't get that piece of paper cause they couldn't afford it.

But yeah, it'd probably do wonders for the stats on divorce.

[Bill McBlueState]

4. yeah, the state of Florida is so good at everything else it does

They should get into the marriage-counseling business, too.

Oh, and I bet the courses would be totally compliant with the Establishment Clause. No doubts there.

[quaker bill]

36. When I wanted to get married

a $100 fee for the license would not have caused me to think twice. That said, when I needed a divorce, a fee of several thousand would not have held me back.

Florida, a state that cannot even figure out how to fund public schools is considering going into couples therapy? They are determined, as usual, to spend alot of money making things worse.

[Jack Rabbit]

5. Only among poor people

nt
!!

[LanternWaste]

6. You've got an old fashioned idea divorce is something that lasts forever...

"You've got an old fashioned idea divorce is something that lasts forever, 'til death do us part.' Why divorce doesn't mean anything nowadays, Hildy, just a few words mumbled over you by a judge."

Cary Grant in 'His Girl Friday'

[petronius]

7. No - and I shudder to imagine what he thinks would be appropriate

premarital counseling...

[Solly Mack]

8. Idiot

"Basically, when we succeeded with Amendment 2, we asked ourselves: What do we want to do next?" Stemberger said. "We wanted to do something big."


Stemberger also wants to do away with Florida's no-fault divorce laws. His Strong Marriages Campaign is advocating a waiting period of at least a year from the time a divorce is filed until it is finalized. For couples with children, both parents would need to agree to the divorce unless abuse, abandonment or infidelity were involved.

[merh]

9. Ermmm, no, it wouldn't. Too many pay a fortune for the wedding

it would just be another one of the expenses.

I've always been amazed at how much money folks are willing to spend for weddings - imagine if they had a simple ceremony and put that money into savings or as a down payment for a home or even to pay off credit cards.

I know one young girl that put herself into debt putting the wedding of her dreams on her credit card.

[tabbycat31]

13. my sister's getting married next month

and she's basically sending my parents the bill for the wedding even though my mom lost her job.

I've also known of couples where the debt from the wedding outlasted the marriage.

[merh]

14. See, what's a $100 license fee gonna do - it won't stop folks.

Hell, the fear of damnation doesn't stop folks.

[onethatcares]

18. go smack your sister upside the head.

tell her to wake up.

[tabbycat31]

23. I don't see that happening

she is so immune to everything that is going on,a nd her biggest worry is what shoes the bridesmaids (including myself) are wearing.

My soon to be BIL worked on the Mitt Romney campaign. They've both repeatedly agreed with Phil Gramm on the "nation of whiners" comment. They're both very "I got mine so fuck you" type people.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

34. Your parents don't have to accept the bill.

[ejpoeta]

39. well if they've got theirs, then they can pay for it. geesh. i guess that's the american way.

i think you need a suze orman intervention. she can put the smackdown when it comes to spending money or having your parents pay for it better than anyone.

[ejpoeta]

38. that's very nice of your sister. I think your mom should tell your sister

if she's old enough to get married, and she wants to spend money on a wedding... then SHE can spend it. Screw that. I wouldn't dream of asking my dad or anyone else to pay for my wedding. OF course, we just got married up at my aunt's cottage during the family reunion. My aunt made the wedding cake and we had a hippie theme to match the theme of the reunion. Bob got to wear a tye dye tee shirt and jean shorts. I'm sure all those tv 'experts' would say it was tacky, but we didn't have the pressure, we had a great time and we ended up married. Now, bob and I lived together for ten years before we were married, and we already had a daughter and one on the way.... but still.... a wedding is just one day. It's not the greatest day of your life. It's not the best day of your life. It's a special day, sure, but what makes it special is that you are getting married, not that you can outspend the neighbors. When I think of how much some folks have spent on weddings, I think what that money COULD have been spent on.

[pipi_k]

47. Screw the experts and their tacky wedding shit...

Mr P and I got married by a JP in Vermont in 1995. In fact, our anniversary is coming up...March 24th, but anyway...

We drove up with a couple of close friends.

Went to the town hall (located in the elementary school) and got the license, then went to lunch at a small local hole in the wall restaurant. I couldn't finish my lunch, and so had a bit of fun making a little smiley face in my mashed potatoes with some of the peas. The waitress cleared our table, then brought back the mashed potato smiley face wrapped in plastic. It's been in my freezer for nearly 14 years. :)

After that, there was still time left before our appointment so we drove around a bit, then went back to the JP's home.

OK now... what happened that day was better than anything I've ever seen at any wedding, no matter how much it cost...

That day was very overcast and gray...some snow flurries were in the air. The JP was going through the ceremony, and got to a certain point where he called on God to "bless this couple...etc."

At that exact moment...the clouds parted and one ray of sunshine came in through the window, then disappeared after about ten seconds. I couldn't believe my eyes, and thought, damn...that must have been some kind of optical illusion. Afterward, Mr P and our two friends all said they saw the same thing.

Now, I do not believe in "God". Haven't for a long time, but if there ever were a time when I would think twice and become a convert it would have been then.

We've been through a lot in those 14 years, just like any other married couple, and there have been times when we didn't think we would make it, but I honestly believe that we were meant to be together, and so we've tried. It wasn't about The Wedding. It's about the spiritual bond...and no amount of money can ever buy something like that...

[ejpoeta]

48. definitely!!! we were 'married' before any piece of paper came about.

and sure there are troubles. That's life. But that sounds like such a pretty wedding... one beam of light. Perfect. You don't need the bells and whistles. I always tell my husband it's the little things that matter. You can't buy those moments. like that shaft of light you had. Anyone can have a cookie cutter wedding, but if you're so busy planning and feeling pressure... who remembers it anyway!! I remember my wedding. The only traditional thing about it was that I let my dad walk me down the aisle. I couldn't take that away from him. After all, I was the last kid he had that was getting married. My uncle sang a song for us as we walked towards my husband. justice of the peace was hunched over at the front of the group of people. Fit right in with our wedding I'd say!! Later after the wedding my uncle wanted to know if we were going to go consumate the marriage. I grimaced at the idea of hearing that from my uncle, and then told him that I didn't have to consumate anything, as i was 6 months pregnant at the time. Then my husband got to go play with fireworks as another uncle did a fireworks display every year for the family. Bob almost blew himself up. Geesh. But the memories are what matters. Not how much you spent.

I think the key is remembering the person you fell in love with. I can get mad at Bob, we can argue over something... but I always see that face that I remember... soft, sweet... he can always make me smile. we can always come back and talk about it later, when we're both in a better place to listen to each other. Still working on trying to go on a date once in awhile. It is hard with kids to go anywhere alone together. I don't trust many people with my kids. LOL!! And I hate to inflict them on others, either. hehe.

[Obamanaut]

41. Return the bill "no longer at this address" nt

[pipi_k]

46. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!!!!!

We're going through something like that here with one of my stepdaughters.

She and her fiance bought a house last June, then got engaged. I think he would be happy with a small ceremony, or even an elopement, but she is all about THE WEDDING.

Let's be real here...she is not a child...she just turned 30. But she wants the whole Fairy Tale bigass fancy wedding that's going to put them back perhaps $20,000 if not more. Yeah, they both have real good jobs (for now, and that's part of the point) but with a rather large mortgage, things would be rough if one of them lost their job.

Maybe I'm just not romantic enough, who knows...

Why not take that 20K and invest it into upgrades that will pay off someday if/when they ever decide to sell their home.

Or put it into a safe interest account.


I guess I have never understood the importance of THE WEDDING. Oh, alright, maybe when I was about ten years old and I was playing with my Barbie doll all decked out in her wedding gown with all the trappings, but damn! I've been married three times, and it's NOT all about the wedding and being Princess For A Day. It's a little difficult to feel all warm and fuzzy about spending that much money on something that isn't a sure bet no matter HOW much "in love" people think they are.

Anyway, I don't say much to the happy couple, but Mr P has, a couple of times. It's met with a lot of resistance because what his daughter wants is what she's going to get, no matter what.

And let me just say this...one other reason I find huge weddings so obnoxious (I'm going to stick up for the guys on this) is that all this planning is going on and the guy...where's he? He's just a fixture in the whole thing. An afterthought. As my stepdaughter has let slip out, and I'm sure she doesn't even realize it, she's said, "It's MY day". I actually feel sorry for her fiance.

Anyway, Bridezilla is an appropriate name for them. It's all about "ME, ME, ME" and the color of the bridesmaids' shoes just HAS TO match the color of the roses on the wedding cake or the ENTIRE DAY WILL BE RUINED!!!!!

Two or three or five years later they hate each others' guts and they're in divorce court fighting over who gets custody of the wedding photos.

Honest to god...it's just insane.


anyway, thanks for giving me an opportunity to rant. I needed it.

[NightWatcher]

10. no, but a million dollar divorce filing fee would

and I would be in the hole for a million plus my student loans

[Lost in CT]

11. Moron.... we should tax church attndance.... a pew tax $5 a sitting and to be fair we

should have a $5 poll tax at tittie bars.

[MindPilot]

20. I generally vote absentee...

am I exempt?

[petronius]

21. A pole tax?

Of course, if everyone pays the same, it's a flat tax - and a flat tax would oxymoronic at a strip club...

[Lost in CT]

31. I was making either a delightful play on words or a spelling mistake...

Fine make it a progressive tax $5 at the entrance and $20 at the Champagne Room...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

35. Would catholics have to pay an alcohol tax on top of the pew tax? j/k

[sinkingfeeling]

12. Why not charge $1000 for a license? This idiot's really only going to add to the number of

unmarried people living together.

[JerseygirlCT]

15. $100? Not a chance. nt

[gratuitous]

16. Why does divorce cost so much?

Because it's worth it.

:rofl:

[noamnety]

17. Well, he has a point.

If you can prevent people from getting married, you can prevent them from getting divorced.

But then the gays don't get to be the fall guys for destroying straight marriages.

Out of curiosity - does anyone here know of people who tried to get divorced, but due to mandated wait times, decided, oh, we'll just stay married after all?

[Incitatus]

19. This is more about the premarital counseling

people would have to go to to get their money back. I wonder if this program has a religious angle.

[TommyO]

37. Religious angle? Of course it does:

The premarital counseling advocated in the Premarital Preparation bill is modeled after the Tallahassee-based Live the Life Ministries, which supports Stemberger's Strong Marriage Campaign. Live the Life uses a 150-question "premarital inventory" that identifies areas in which prospective husbands and wives agree and disagree — everything from household finances and child discipline to conflict resolution.

More proof of their religious bent at: http://www.livethelife.org/index.php/ltl/About-LtL-Contact-Us/Our-Mission

[Raine]

22. Oh sure

it would. :rofl:

[Motown_Johnny]

24. I doubt it, the one thing about a divorce, no matter what it costs... it is worth it

Kidding, (kinda)

[jmowreader]

25. It would not

One of the more entertaining sites you'll run into is http://www.costofwedding.com. According to it, the average wedding costs, NOT including honeymoon or engagement ring...

In Fayettenam: $14,341-$23,968
In Raleigh $20,959-$34,932
In Chicago: $16,981-$28,302
In Seattle: $25,854-$43,091

Among the things that, in Seattle (because I'm on that page, sorry) cost around $100 per line item: cufflinks, bride's shoes, groom's shoes, bride's facial, hair, makeup, manicure, an aisle runner, the ring pillow, the unity candle, flower girl flowers, guest book, bridal shower invitations, thank you cards, toasting flutes and wedding cake topper.

If they run the price of a marriage license up by $100, it still costs less than having the bride's hair set on the day of the wedding. (And let's not even get into the $5000 bar tab, the $1500 rehearsal dinner, $2300 band or $6000 engagement ring.)

OTOH, it will force THESE people...



to sign up for the Religious Right "marriage counseling" in an effort to not have to pay the extra $100.

[Pharlo]

26. Seems to me, making it harder to get married and/or divorced in Florida would only

result in a number of couples marrying/divorcing out of state. How much money would Florida lose on marriage licenses and divorces if its citizens started going elsewhere?

As for waiting a year to get a divorce.... At one time, no fault divorce was a major business in Nevada. People would take a two week vacation to get their qualifying Nevada 'residency', get a no fault divorce and return home.

Eventually, other states began relaxing their rules for divorce. From a purely financial standpoint, this would be a stupid move on the part of the Florida legislature.

[quaker bill]

29. this would be a stupid move on the part of the Florida legislature

which is why they will do it.

[burning rain]

27. Charge $10 million for a marriage license...

and you'd really cut back on divorce. Duh!

[cherish44]

28. Divorce is very expensive but it doesn't stop people from doing it

and frankly, sometimes it's worth every penny

[Mike 03]

30. Absolutely. Especially for those of us who spend thousands of dollars on the wedding.

Sure...

Some couples spend hundreds of thousands on the wedding.

What a dipshit idea this guy has.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

32. Couples can move to Texas!!! Save Money!!

We still have common law marriage here.

Requirements:

1. No prior impediments (being a minor, incapacity to contract, still married to somebody else)

2. Cannot be related to a degree that is forbidden to marry. Have to be a man and a woman (we don't have gay marriage yet).

3. Must agree to live together (cohabit has a specific meaning).

4. Hold yourselves out to the public as husband and wife. If somebody asks one or both of you, "Are you married?" and you say "Yes", then you have held yourself out to the public.

5. No time limit needed (i.e. you'll wake up in six months and be married -- that is bullshit).

6. You can register your marriage at the courthouse as a Declaration of Common Law Marriage.

Divorces have to be done in court.

These idiots that think that a marriage certificate will MAKE two people get along, just slay me. You can't make anyone love you or like you, and a piece of paper won't do it.

And yes I am a lawyer, but I don't practice.

[SoCalDem]

33. Nope..but I know something that would go a long to to preventing divorces

DECENT wages, so married people could afford to have a life, and not have to fight over money all the time:(

[pipoman]

40. I wonder

if "eight hours of premarital counseling" has ever prevented one divorce ever or deterred one bad marriage from occurring? Marriage requires a lifetime of work, telling someone this (especially young people) is meaningless.

[KG]

42. another clueless, insulated, middle class white guy.

wonder what his brand of pev is. scratch any of these moralizers and you find some kind of sexual dysfunction just below the surface.

[MedleyMisty]

43. Why are other people's marriages his business?

I mean really, why does he want to prevent other people from getting divorced? How does it affect his personal life?

[mwooldri]

44. Answer to the thread: no.

The cost of a marriage license, and the "cost" incurred to get married does not have any direct relation to the divorce rate.

USA: same day marriage possible, some places quite cheap. Guilford County, NC: $50 for license, can marry same day. Can even apply for license online.

UK: big thing here is minimum 22 day wait plus in England/Wales there's a residency requirement. Forms run about $100 plus $60 for a basic civil ceremony. In England you have a right to get married in church - it costs more: minimum fee is £313.50 ($450-$500) but people want flowers, organists, choirs, bell-ringers and other stuff like that and all that extra costs more. Way more.

So on paper it looks like it's harder to get married in the UK, so divorce should be way down, no?

Uhhh... nope. 45.8% of marriages in the US end in divorce. 42.6% in the UK.

Sweden has a divorce rate of 54.9%, marriage has a kinda-wait period but I can't find the cost - presume similar to USA and UK.

Divorce rate is all cultural.

Mark.

[leftyclimber]

45. It would give fundies one more way to denigrate poor people

by criticizing those who couldn't afford the fee but were living together in a commited relationship for living in sin and having babies out of wedlock.

What a stupid idea.