Where does the buck stop on teacher quality? Facts and myths...

[Sancho]

I'll use examples from Florida and today's St. Pete Times, because that is familiar to me, but you likely have exactly the same issues in your home town.

Newspapers and TV are full of stories that complain about bad teachers and often tie the badness to myths like union membership, continuing contracts (tenure), or blaming teacher preparation:

--------------Creating the Myths------------
http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/k12/article987898.ece

It's Hard to Fire a Teacher, Even if They are Bad

"In Florida, most teachers have tenure, a status written into state law that gives them special legal protections. Most also have a union willing to wage a legal fight for them. The combination yields a firing process so tedious and time-consuming, districts rarely bother."

By Ron Matus, Times Staff Writer
In Print: Sunday, March 29, 2009

-------------Teacher licenses and certificates are issued and approved by the states-------

It is true that unions will defend the process defined in a contract with teachers. This protects employees from arbitrary and vindictive attacks. Defending the process has nothing to do with the good or bad behavior of the teacher. No one defends unqualified teachers. Everyone deserves a fair hearing of the facts. It is that simple.

From the same article in the St. Pete Times:

"The Pinellas school district, with about 7,300 classroom teachers, has fired six tenured teachers in the past four years. Hillsborough, with about 13,000 teachers, has fired 10.

It's true some teachers are forced to resign in lieu of firing. It's true some are rooted out during their first three years on the job, before they get tenure. It goes without saying that bad teachers are the exception."

What the article doesn't mention is that the State of Florida (just like your state's department of education) is ultimately responsible for protecting the public from harm, setting standards, and revoking credentials. The person discussed as a bad teacher in the St. Pete Times article was referred to the state board for accountability and given a slap on the wrist, but is still licensed to teach - the school district, the union, the principal, nor anyone else can fix the problem if the agency paid to protect the public will not do it's job! You can put any name (including the individual named in the article) into the actions of the state board and see that he was allowed to keep on teaching! Even if a bad teacher is fired from a school, they can usually move to another job AS LONG AS THEY KEEP THEIR CERTIFICATE TO TEACH.

http://www.fldoe.org/edstandards/Education_Practices.asp
http://www.fldoe.org/edstandards/

Most bad teachers, lawyers, doctors, and plumbers have all been referred to their state licensing boards, and they almost always get off! That is not the fault of the union!. :rant: (sorry).

---------How did bad teachers get to be "teachers" to start with?----------------

First off, many "teachers" have not been through approved teacher education programs. States often allow anyone with a degree to become a teacher with minimal training. The bad teacher referred to in the St. Pete Times article was not trained in an approved teacher education program in Florida:

"He was a concrete finisher when he applied to be a Pinellas teacher. On a 1985 job application he wrote: As I have always enjoyed athletics and children, the teaching profession offers me the opportunity to enjoy both."

Most approved programs have requirements that teachers have a major in a content field (42 different ones in Florida), take a test of knowledge in that subject, and serve 3 to 5 supervised internships over two years time to prove that the teacher candidate has the dispositions and skills to get a teaching certificate. Approved programs usually require a 2.5 or 3.0 GPA to enter the teaching program so students can't slide by. Most people with bad judgment or any other problem are never endorsed to receive a license if they are not up to par. Florida has a list of state approved programs (most states also have such a list), and those colleges have to meet state standards for faculty, clinical practice, and courses. In order to save money and fill areas of need (like science, math, and special education) where the salaries are too low to get teachers; states allow people to become teachers through the back door. A few of those folks become good teachers, but many are underprepared to be teachers. More importantly, teachers who haven't "jumped through the hoops" haven't been observed for a year or two before getting a certificate to see if they are axe-murderers or child-molesters, or just should not be in a public classroom with children. Because it is CHEAPER, teachers are recruited from overseas and out-of-field. Those teachers are sometimes good, but they are paid less and are willing to teach in order to enter the US or get a job in the sunshine state. When states allow temporary or alternative licenses to get the low paid teacher - and trades quality for dollars - they get what they pay for. Would you allow airline pilots or doctors who walked in and learned on the job? Why trust an unproven person with your children?

http://www.fldoe.org/edcert/level2.asp
http://www.fldoe.org/profdev/approval.asp

------How else have states watered down teacher education programs? ---------

This may be a shock to many parents and readers of the St. Pete Times, but state approved programs in teacher education are often NOT nationally accredited in teacher education. For example (and I have no reason to think that FGCU is a bad school), if you look at the program approval for Florida Gulf Coast University you will see a dozen approved programs for teacher certificates and under national teacher accreditation is "no". States and university administrations don't want to fund national accreditation of teacher education programs because it costs money to meet the standards! National accreditation has minimal requirements for coursework, proof of quality, faculty, and clinical supervision of teacher candidates. NCLB never effectively addressed the teacher quality issues - so it is an excellent step in the right direction for Obama to focus on this critical issue! Most of the public doesn't realize that even state supported programs are not nationally accredited! Would that be acceptable for doctors? These are your children! If you look through all the dozens of colleges in your state, check to see if they are nationally accredited for teacher education in the areas that they offer programs. Ask your school board to hire teachers from nationally accredited teacher education programs! It's not a guarantee, but the number of bad teachers will go down dramatically if you do so. That will mean less money on lawyers, investigations, firing teachers, etc...and more money on the kids. It will also protect the students.

"Teacher Education Programs Approved
By The Florida Department of Education
January 2008
Florida Gulf Coast University
10501 Florida Gulf Coast University Blvd.
Ft. Myers, Florida 33965-6565
NCATE No
Regional Yes
Florida Gulf Coast University Institution Number: 5001"
http://www.fldoe.org/profdev/teachprep/university/floridagulfcoastuniversity.pdf

-----Obama wants the buck to stop with a national standard-----

Obama's education plan requires all colleges of teacher education to be nationally accredited:

Prepare Teachers: Obama and Biden will require all schools of education to be accredited. Obama and Biden will also create a voluntary national performance assessment so we can be sure that every new educator is trained and ready to walk into the classroom and start teaching effectively.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/education/

The question is simple: will Obama's plan be implemented? Do you want good teachers?

--------------Call your state government and demand that bad teacher lose their certificate permanently------

Don't blame the unions or good teachers for creating and protecting the bad teachers! Put the blame on those responsible for the problem.

[BlooInBloo]

1. It's not about blame. It's about getting teachers who actually know something.

[Sancho]

4. Not a problem if you follow the rules...

I've taught over the last 30 years in multiple states, and in every case I went to college for a content major and passed a knowledge test in order to be licensed. That should be true for all teachers. In today's schools, there are too many exceptions where teachers are out-of-field, don't have a major, or haven't been through an approved or accredited program. All approved programs have general education and subject major requirements. Almost all have a standardized test requirement.

The post was intended to indicate that unions and even local school administrations are not responsible for the unprepared teachers. Usually, your state government is the biggest problem.

[tonysam]

6. The Problem Isn't Tenure, Then.

We have a problem in this country with licensing. If you are fully credentialed in one state, it should be good in ALL states. Right now, if teachers want to move, they have to jump through hoops in other states and pay for testing out of their pocket.


It's ludicrous.

[Sancho]

9. I agree, I've moved to three states and always had to certify again.

A national license would make sense. I suspect that states don't want to do that so they can keep teachers from moving around looking for the best salary and starting a pay war.

[seleff]

22. PhD certifying a second time

As a PhD scientist who left a major medical school faculty (on a short string for grant $) I went through a State approved teacher training program while on the job teaching science in an urban HS. After 3 years, my wife had an attractive job offer in another state and I left my "tenured" certified position only to find out that the new state would not recognize my certification because it was completed through a school district and not a University or college. So now I am a student teacher to complete certification a second time in a "high needs" discipline, biology and chemistry. I have taught upper diviaion undergrad courses as an adjunct professor in the same college I am an Ed certification grad student! At times I've been teaching my cooperating teacher content while she teaches me ideas of how to trick students into learning. It's been a crazy ride and I hope to find a FT position soon, be it college or HS. Hard to swallow that I could train/supervise PhD students and postdocs, but spend six years in secondary ed training myself either taking courses or teaching in the classroom and still not hold certification in my current state! :crazy:

[BlooInBloo]

7. What, specifically, is a "content major"?

EDIT: Two possibilities come to mind:

1) It's a major in a real (i.e., not education) department.
2) It's an education major with an "emphasis" or "concentration" or "focus" on something that education majors THINK is real and substantive.

[Sancho]

10. That may be true in a few places, but not most degrees today...

In Florida, all teachers have to complete general education requirements in college basics and pass a test of reading, writing and math in order to enter teacher education (including elementary school teachers, music, etc.). The math test (for example) has college algebra, geometry, and logic as part of it. There is a writing test graded by external reviewers. After that, if they have a major in a subject, it usually means a minimum of 6 to 8 courses from the department (biology, history, etc.) plus they still have to pass a test for college majors in that subject to get a license.

In approved programs, 100% of the certified teachers are required to pass the content test in order to graduate. That is similar to other states where I've lived. Teachers who don't know a subject are usually teaching out-of-field or avoided going through an approved and accredited program. Some states are stronger than others.

I don't see many teachers with real majors having problems with knowing the subject. I see some who were hired on emergency or temporary credentials having the most problems. The St. Pete Times article is typical. Someone who was from out of state who likely was never recommended by a college program to teach leaves some other job and becomes a teacher somehow. Then they are a constant problem and the district refers them to the state licensing board and they keep their credential somehow. Even when fired from one school, they just get a job at another.

I've seen more teachers have problems with values and personal behavior than knowledge of the subject when they are "bad" teachers.

[BlooInBloo]

12. I still don't know what a "content major" is.

[Sancho]

14. There are several definitions, but the most common are determined by colleges.

All colleges have to define majors in order to give an accredited degree. There are lots of details (like defining courses by the number of contact hours per course per quarter or semester), required tests, and required experiences. Without getting into details, most undergraduate degrees define a major as a minimum of 6 to 8 "courses" of 3 or 4 semester hours taken according to the rules of the department (with prerequisites, required courses, electives, etc.). Colleges of education majors usually adopt the rules of the math, science, music, history, etc. department. FL and most states require a minimum number of course hours in a subject in order to teach it. As an example, here is the requirement for an English teacher. 30 semester hours is ten college courses of 3 semester hours each. A science major with labs and 4 to 5 hour courses may define a major as 8 course, but the courses are longer.

Specialization Requirements for Certification in English (Grades 6-12)--Academic Class.
(1) Plan One. A bachelor's or higher degree with an undergraduate or graduate major in English, or

(2) Plan Two. A bachelor's or higher degree with thirty (30) semester hours in English to include the areas specified below:

(a) Credit in English composition and grammar beyond freshman English,

(b) Credit in speech or oral interpretation, and

(c) Fifteen (15) semester hours in literature.

Specific Authority 1001.02, 1012.55, 1012.56 FS. Law Implemented 1001.02, 1012.54, 1012.55, 1012.56 FS. History–New 7-1-90, Amended 7-17-00.

The problem is that a major in a subject leaves one woefully unprepared to teach. You can take courses in zoology, vertebrate morphology, and botany but have no idea how to teach the HS curriculum that includes health and sex education. You can read Shakespeare, but have no idea how to teach reading. School curriculums are complicated and have lots more involved than just subject knowledge. Education majors include courses in the methods of teaching, child development, class management, etc. in addition to the major courses. The only "pure" education degrees are ones in elementary education or special education where there are no content majors. Those teachers have to take some content in reading, writing, elementary math, elementary science, etc. for young children. They also take courses in FL to teach kids who don't speak English (ESOL), and all kinds of special needs. They also take courses in testing, technology, school law, and serve at least 3 internships supervised by professors and teachers.

Down here, an education elementary degree requires more hours than most other undergraduate majors and requires a higher GPA to graduate. Unfortunately, about half the education majors don't teach because they take higher paying jobs outside of schools.

[BlooInBloo]

18. "a major in a subject leaves one woefully unprepared to teach."...

Not nearly as much as not knowing anything in the first place.

Thanks for the example though - I assume it's similar for other fields.

[roody]

25. It is having majored in an academic discipline rather that education.

For example: math, biology, history, English, etc.

[roody]

2. I am a teacher. It is not rocket science.

A bad teacher is not bad because they do not have enough knowledge. It is a matter of time willing to invest in classroom preparation and attitude towards children. I am not arguing against strict credentialing standards. I have fulfilled all of them.

[tonysam]

5. I Was Qualified and a Good Teacher, Too.

But there were assholes in the district, including an administrator who repeatedly violated civil rights and federal laws, and a human resources department which used an incorrectly filled out medical leave form to cheat me out of retirement benefits--RIGHT after I got vested--as reasons to "dismiss" me.

If you are unlucky enough to have a horrible administrator, your career can be sidelined or ruined.

[Sancho]

13. I've seen worse administrators than teachers!

I've worked with good principals and district folks, but I've also seen some really crazy administrators at all levels of education. I suspect that we really need to have a revision of who can be a principal badly in today's schools. Getting rid of bad administrators is much harder than bad teachers!

[roody]

24. I am so sorry. I hope you are doing something you love.

[Sancho]

11. I agree...

most teachers are knowledgeable, but the bad ones don't have the values to be teachers. I've seen more alternative teachers lately that are really having problems. There are some good ones, but most are not ready for today's schools.

[tonysam]

3. This is Flamebait, I Am Afraid.

The attack on "tenure" is a smokescreen by those opposed to public education to destroy the unions. However, as one who was unjustly dismissed last year and was tenured, I KNOW the idea of "tenure-as-permanent-employment" is a crock of shit.

You actually have MORE rights as an "at-will" employee because you have the right to an outside attorney and sue for wrongful termination. Companies are usually afraid to fire employees unless it is flagrant for fear of lawsuits. It is much easier in public employment, especially teaching, for those who don't know how to communicate to employees to abuse the disciplinary and arbitration process. As a teacher if you are like me and were dumb enough to be talked into arbitration by the union--which waives ALL of your constitutional rights to sue in civil court and to a trial by jury and denies you the right to appeal, and which is almost ALWAYS rigged in favor of the employer--you are screwed.

Take it from one who knows what she is talking about.

[Sancho]

8. The numbers back you up!

States with unions fire more teachers than states that are not represented. Blaming unions for bad teachers makes no sense.

Actually, if you have a good legal case it is my observation that a private lawyer is the often the way to go. Union lawyers may be helpful in "class actions" where a group of teachers are affected by a policy, and they may help with minor issues but they will almost always negotiate a settlement first. Of course, that is what I've seen in the south. It may depend on the exact contract you have where you work.

[MadHound]

15. Please stop feeding the beast. When it comes to failures in our education system,

The first finger is always pointed at teachers. Yet in most ways it is the teachers, good or bad, who are at fault for the mess we find our education system. In fact the greatest culprit, the simple lack of money, is hardy ever addressed, yet that elephant in the living room is hardly ever blamed, perhaps because that is the one area where every registered voter has input, and thus have failed our children miserably. An example: A couple of years ago my local rural school district was desperate for a new school building, they were and are bursting at the seams. Yet some local yahoo farmers, who took the attitude that since they didn't have kids in school they saw no reason to hike their property taxes to pay for better facilities. They managed to kill this bond issue with a few votes (funny how anything having to do with money for schools has to pass by a super majority). Now, here we are, a couple of years later and there's another stripped down proposal being put forth by the school district, who now are simply trying to get money to put in more of those goddamn trailer classrooms:grr: And sadly, this too will probably fail to get the super majority needed.

Having the public at large in charge of school funding is a recipe for disaster, and that's exactly what has happened. The public, in their quest for ever lower taxes, have voted their way to having a failing education system, and then blame the teachers.

The federal and state government have monies that they could provide for school facilities and school improvement, yet it seems as though these issues become political footballs that get fumbled away. For instance the stimulus bill originally had twenty billion dollars allocated for school construction and facility upgrades. Yet in Obama's futile and foolhardy search for bipartisan support he axed sixteen billion of that money, and instead used it for more tax cuts. Then he and his educational hitman Duncan have the nerve to go off on teachers.

On and on this goes. Yes, there are bad teachers out there, nobody doubts that. There are bad people in every single profession. However I'm sick and tired of having teachers, the vast majority of whom are good at their job and who live and bleed for their job, scapegoated for all the ills of our education system. Fund the schools like you actually mean the rhetoric about education being the most important factor in our society. Pay teachers like you mean it when you say teaching is job one. Have parents re-engage in their kids' education. When you do all that, then we can start dealing with bad teachers, which in the greater scope of things are the least of our problems in the educational field.

[Sancho]

16. I agree that we usually should not blame the teachers.

I thought the newspaper article was sensationalizing one "bad" teacher who probably wasn't prepared to teach anyway. Here in Florida, our legislature hates education and has no respect for teachers.

[MadHound]

17. That's part of the problem, virtually all legislatures, state and federal, hate education

Yet it's the teacher who winds up getting scapegoated.

[Joe Fields]

23. Per student, America ranks second in the world on money spent.

Switzerland ranks first. We spend over 11,000 dollars per student.

As for teachers, the avg. teacher earns 50,000 dollars a year.

What other excuses do you have to offer?

[Igel]

19. "Accredited", not "nationally" accredited.

Whatever "nationally accredited" means. Most programs in most fields are accredited by regional accreditation boards, not a national one.

In many cases, having the programs accredited by the states and not the feds (or even regionally) makes sense. After all, the curricula are set by the states. The federal government hasn't been able to figure out how to get the Constitution, after a hundred years of public schools run locally, to mandate federal control over the public schools. They keep trying, but the required interpretation of the Constitution just hasn't been forthcoming.

This leads to problems with inter-state certification. Still, many states accept other states' certifications with few problems. Sometimes an additional course, often a test is required. Take Arizona's certification: You have to pass a test on the US and Arizona constitutions. Under what sense of fairness would it be proper to require New York State teachers to be able to pass that particular requirement if they never intend to teach in Arizona? Would a national accreditation provide the academic chops to pass that test? Should it? Or take sheltered English immersion--currently Arizona teachers have to know it. Most other states don't require sheltered English immersion be a standard competency; for Arizona, given Arizona law, it makes sense (even if you don't like the proposition that begat the requirement).

The performance assessment is, of course, voluntary. Which simply means it's unlikely to happen.

[Sancho]

20. Exactly, I'm not talking about regionally accredited (like SACS)!!!

I'm talking about NCATE or TEAC or other agencies that are approved by CHEA and offer nationally accredited programs for teachers!

Regionally accredited agencies only deal with "the whole school" and not specific professional programs. NCATE deals with professional teacher programs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Council_for_Accreditation_of_Teacher_Education

This is a higher standard than regional accreditation. A visitation team and application approves colleges of teacher education specifically. There are similar accreditation organizations for other degrees.

See: http://www.chea.org/Directories/special.asp

Yes, there is a National Board Certification for Teachers which is quite rigorous and performance based, but most states still don't allow reciprocity so that teachers won't jump ship to the best salaries: http://www.nbpts.org/

[SmileyRose]

21. I'm convinced 99% if teachers are just fine

they either are already good teachers or could be good teachers in the right environment.

I'm convinced a lot of school boards and school administrators suck the big one.

I'm also convinced there are fair number of parents who live in some sort of bizzaro world where their little darlings could never do anything wrong at school, where their little darlings are natural geniuses, and where it is ENTIRELY the school's responsibility to teach their child pretty much everything and the school's responsibility to make sure the child gets fed 3 squares a day and gets all the school supplies / uniforms they may need.


At one time I thought these folks were few and far between, but after getting to know my school system better than I ever expected (not having kids) due to mine losing it's state accreditation and my home value biting the dust, I realize these parents, at least in my area, are more numerous than I expected.