How much of a difference would It make for GM if we had single payer tomorrow?

[hedgehog]

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Quire a bit... like a lot

A good percentage of their cost are legacy... aka cost of health care for retirees and current employees

We need national single payer, period

[MannyGoldstein]

2. Huge

Health care costs more for them than steel.

[scarletwoman]

3. Why bother asking? It's "off the table".

Seriously, it would completely change the entire equation. Which is why I'm getting more and more pissed off at Obama's neoliberalist corporatist bullshit.

sw

[cliffordu]

5. In no small irony....

So am I....

Still hoping.....

[scarletwoman]

12. Well quit fucking "hoping" and start agitating.

Obama's not some Higher Being that we dare not question. He's a fucking politician talking out of both sides of his mouth while he placates the Owner Class. Maybe he can't help it, maybe they've got him by the short hairs. Doesn't make any fucking difference. If you love him then rescue him from the evil forces holding him hostage. Raise a fucking ruckus.

When bullshit is clearly bullshit, quit making excuses. Stand up and call BULLSHIT.

sw

[cliffordu]

15. I think my days of agitating are about over.....

I'm tired....

A long bicycle ride - I think a tour of the burgeoning homeless camps is in order.

I need to be a witness. I need to report.

[spag68]

8. Obama

I campaigned for and voted for Obama, but stop calling him anything but what he is, a centrist POLITICIAN.

[Captain Hilts]

4. A lot. GM is, by many standards, a HUGE HMO. nt

[spag68]

6. health care

All Japanese manufacturers are subsidized in one way or another by their government. Health care is only one of the ways. We are the last to not have universal health care and it stymies all manufacturing here.

[customerserviceguy]

7. If we had single payer

then the foreign manufacturers would also not have to pay health care costs. They'd be even more competitive, too.

And since they make better cars, they'd still kick GM's butt.

[nonconformist]

10. Fuck off with that shit today.

[customerserviceguy]

14. Sure, as soon as you reimburse me

for the 1982 Pontiac Phoenix that gave me that attitude.

Ford, on the other hand, might well still be competitive.

[cliffordu]

17. You really DID get fucked, didn't you??

I had a gremlin.

:rofl:

[DKRC]

21. Groanin' grem

My best friend had one, brown, bald tires, no horn. Yeah her Daddy just loved her.

Sat like this most of the time.

[customerserviceguy]

24. I traded

my '76 Gremlin (also bought brand new) on the Phoenix.

Yes, I've made some pretty poor automotive decisions in my younger life. Maybe that's what's happened to GM and American Motors (since bought by Chrysler) they were sustained in the 70's and 80's by baby-boomers fascinated with something flashy, who remembered the dependability of the cars they rode in while growing up.

Then, as they got older and didn't need to make an automobile a symbol of who they were, simply turned their backs on the companies that sold them poorly built cars in their youth.

[specimenfred1984]

9. Please, "One thing at a time" cries my propagandized brain

Don't confuse health care with GM, don't try to fix the economy and hold war criminals accountable at the same time, don't vote for Obama then actually expect anything you voted for; just sit back and give everything more time, more and more and more time.

[hedgehog]

13. It's late, so I may be missing some sarcasm there, but I think it's

all connected. Back during the campaign, people were already saying that Obama would have to give up this, this and that because the economy was tanking. My reaction then and now is that unless Obama does this, this and that, the economy will never recover! I think that's the idea he's trying to get across.

[nonconformist]

11. Huge. But they can't see the forest for the trees, so it's off the table.

Hey, any banks need a hundred billion dollars? Here ya go!

[Historic NY]

16. A big difference they got 80 yrs old getting full benefits when there..

is Medicaid & medicare that they should be using. I think they tried to get some of the people to switch to the AARP Medical insurance plan. The auto companies are paying for insurance a young person would use vs a senior. Its like being upside down on a mortage or car loan.

[scarletwoman]

18. You obviously have no understanding of what the social contract USED to be.

The deal was, you, the worker, gave your loyalty, your sweat and blood and time and effort to the company that employed you, in exchange for clearly defined compensation. Retirement benefits were part of that defined compensation, just as surely as your hourly wage was.

When you take away the retirement benefits that these workers have EARNED, you are essentially retroactively stealing their wages.

sw

[hedgehog]

19. Social contract, nothing! These people agreed to work for an immediate

wage plus benefits plus future benefits! It was a legal contract! You're right that this is theft of wages.

[scarletwoman]

22. You're absolutely correct. What I meant by the "social contract" is that back then, this was

the norm, this was expected. No one questioned it, it was a given that this was how the employer/employee relationship was supposed to work.

Society at large recognized the central importance of labor, and respected the idea that there should be a particular balance of power between labor and capital.

That's what I meant.

sw

[Stinky The Clown]

20. Wagoner got his $20mil in benefits when he got his pink slip today

A deal's a deal ...... until it isn't. I really fear the retirees will get fucked. Those still working (or laid off but too young to retire) can kiss any retirement buh bye.

And doesn't this look mmmm-mmmm good?

[Hannah Bell]

23. Labor cost = 10% of the cost of a vehicle.

GM has under 650,000 workers + retirees globally.

If they paid every one of them $100K/yr it would *still* only be 1/3 of their 189 billion in revenues.