"The Market", the Economy, and Real Life

[Stinky The Clown]

Stock markets have no direct connection to the economy or the real world. Yes, there is a link, but not nearly as direct as they want you to think.

The stock market rates moment by moment reporting on radio and teevee. This creates the impression it matters. In fact, what it does is make people pay attention and begin to feel 'connected' to it somehow. It makes people with a $10,000 IRA in mutual funds feel like tycoons and sympathetic to the 'plight' of wall street wankers and big wigs and insiders.

You will **never** be an insider. They will steal your money in a heartbeat. The reporting on the stock market, as if it were a measure of how the economy and the country and YOU are doing is poppycock.

It also causes people to vote repubican.

[paulsby]

1. not so much

the stock market is MUCH more complex than that.

i'm a daytrader, as well as investor.

i trade futures nearly every day.

the market is a forward looking instrument, a means for assessing price, risk, and value.
they do NOT rate the day to day crap etc. as much as they combine the current situation with the future.


it's a chaotic, dynamic system, and it's a combination of all sorts of players (myself included) with different timeframes, goals, strategies, risk tolerances, etc.

the electronic markets are the most democratic institutions on earth. race, gender, class, etc. matter not at all. i'm just another order in the electronic order book on CME.

[Stinky The Clown]

2. "Hey girl, can I hit you back?"

People who advertise this much have lots of money and need more marks.

Same for freecreditreportdotcom

[cliffordu]

4. I live on social security. Will you stake me a hundred grand

so I can join up and speculate on the future price of my food in one of the most democratic instutions on earth??

[paulsby]

17. no

but you can always do simulated trading to hone your chops while you establish a bankroll

[cliffordu]

31. See post 29

[paulsby]

18. no

but you can always do simulated trading to hone your chops while you establish a bankroll

[Stinky The Clown]

8. You use the word "trade" .....

..... and I understand that's a widely accepted term for what happens when one buys and sells securities.

But what is being 'traded'?

Money for a marker. Sometimes the marker pays off and sometimes it doesn't.

How is that different from putting money a Red 27?

[paulsby]

19. in some ways it's the same

in others it's different.

the difference is that roulette is a negative sum game,and the numbers don't represent anything

in the markets, the symbols represent companies. if you can do research and gain an EDGE you can consistently make money.

you can also participate in ownership of some of the greatest companies known to man.

[tama]

25. Tulip mania

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

[Stinky The Clown]

27. Hahahaha

I'd never heard of that before. Perfect! Thanks for the link and the education!

[girl gone mad]

11. You consider yourself a player.

I promise you that the people on Wall Street see you as something much different.

[Stinky The Clown]

12. One of my points, exactly

[paulsby]

21. the point is

the markets are open to all.

i frigging love them.

i realize there is a lot of hate for the markets, but i frigging dig them

[tama]

26. Sure you do

stockholders are leeches of honest work. Leeches love what they do.

[paulsby]

20. i know plenty of people

on wall street, as well as at the CME (i trade mostly futures, which are traded in chicago at the CME not on wall street).

my grandfather taught me about the markets from a young age, and i frigging love them.

like i said, the most democratic institution on earth.

you are free to particpate or NOT to participate.

i prefer that my money works for me, so i participate

[catzies]

23. Well, my grandfather also taught me abt markets at a very young age

and he had his own brokerage, 'til his partner cleaned out the bank accts. & skipped down to Mexico...but I digress.

And I was in my local Merrill office on Oct. 19, 1987 and watched my company's stock (IPO in June '87) plummet, and half our IPO proceeds vanished. I was Exec. Asst. to the CFO and within two weeks of 10/19/87 we laid off half the company, including myself and my CEO boss.

This isn't my first downturn, my first bubble-pop, or my first recession. I used to think like you do, back in the 80s and 90s before we knew what we know now.

IMO it's a lovely illusion- that the markets are democratic, and reward the smarter players. It serves them well. In reality, it's a casino and the house always wins. Always.

[Terry in Austin]

3. Meh. Casino for rich people.

The kicker is, it's got damned little to do with capitalism -- in the sense of actually capitalizing enterprises, which accounts for maybe 5% of the volume traded.

But if you figure capitalism is the system of choice for people who like to gain money without doing any productive work for it, then, yes, The Market is very capitalistic.

Sorry, "finance" just doesn't count as real work.

[ShortnFiery]

5. Exactly. The housing market was up 2% but jobless rates climbing exponentially: Wall Street SURGES!

Wall Street loves high jobless rates because we'll fight each other for that God Almighty minimum wage. :(

[scarletwoman]

15. "..it's got damned little to do with capitalism - in the sense of actually capitalizing enterprises"

That's what really gets me. Why do we even need Wall Street? The Stock Market seems be about nothing but the players at the top figuring out how to get richer off of other people's money. It sucks up the wealth of the nation and distributes it to the few.

[cliffordu]

29. Thaat's right - they speculate on how much cancer is going to cost,

how much food is going to be next year and the value of a lifetime of work.

It's a disgusting weight on the backs of human beings everywhere, and should be flushed along with credit cards.

[scarletwoman]

30. Parasites. (nt)

[eridani]

6. Looking back on growing up in the 50s

Does anyone else who is that old remember the stock market having jackshit to do with anything? I never knew anyone's parents who invested, let alone looked to the stock market as a source of retirement savings. Many people had defined benefit pension plans, and saving for retirement was done at savings and loans banks, all of which gave you 5% interest.

[Stinky The Clown]

7. That's pretty much my story

My patents never had a credit card until after I was adult.

They bought everything in cash and had no debt except for their mortgage

[Fumesucker]

14. Yes, I recall that era fondly..

As you say, savings was done at the Savings and Loan.

The stock market was for the big wheel tycoons who had a ticker tape and smoked big cigars.

[scarletwoman]

16. Same here, grew up in the 50s -- the stock market was a rich man's game, it had nothing do with our

day to day lives.

Conning the working population into accepting 401Ks as "saving" for retirement was a diabolical masterstroke on the part of the Owner Class. Pure evil.

sw

[earth mom]

9. You forgot to say that the Stock Market is nothing more than an exploitative ponzi scheme.

And that it has done nothing but make the workers of this country little more than slaves.

But I'll give you a K & R just the same.

[truedelphi]

10. Agree with you except the last line. This whole Republican-

Democratic party thing is so old.

Forty per cent of Americans do not identify with either party.

How can they? The Center has moved so far to the Right that FDR, who said that <paraphrasing> "It is as dangerous to be involved with the organized banking crowd as it is to be involved with the organized crime families," That FDR would not recognize the man now President who has his economic team from Hell running our nation's finances into the ground, where the banking circle demons will devour it quickly.

[Stinky The Clown]

13. Please reread the OP .... it actually agrees with you

The last line says it causes people to vote repubican ..... not to actually *be* repubican. Many of those who have voted reliably repubican for years consider themselves democrats. Or non aligned. but their voting habits are most definitely repubican.

[truedelphi]

22. Okay

here is a

:toast:

like I said, I agree except for last line,and now you've explained that, I agree in totality with your OP, Stinky.
(For what my agreement is worth.)

[JHB]

24. Pursuing another angle...

"If the media is so liberal, why can I pick up any newspaper or watch any newsbroadcast and they'll tell me what the DOW did today, but not what the UAW did today?"

[scarletwoman]

28. Yep. There's always a "Business" section, never a "Labor" section. (nt)