I am a public school teacher.

[LWolf]

I go to work each day to work with the nation's young people. Regardless of what laws, policies, mandates, procedures, and philosophies are ruling the moment, the year, or the decade. Regardless of the budget. Regardless of class size. Regardless of the existence, or not, or the quality, or not, of a school library, of technology on campus, of books, of texts, of materials and supplies, of nurses, counselors, librarians, or other support staff. In the absence of any "aides." Regardless of the condition of the physical plant. Regardless of whether or not the nation hates or loves me, whether or not my efforts are ever recognized, and whether or not my students show up ready, and/or wanting, to learn anything.

I leave work each day carrying those students with me. They are always in my mind; each of them, and their particular circumstances and needs. I worry about them. They sometimes follow me into my dreams, which are always tense and full of danger.

I love them, and I do my professional, and personal, best for them, within the parameters I am given to work in.

The parents of my students know this. They are my partners, and we work together well. They, and my students, connect with me year after year after I've sent them on, to let me know how they are doing, and often to thank me for my care.

That's worth more, to me, than my party's betrayal. And make no mistake: I consider the appointment of Arne Duncan, and the education agenda that Obama/Duncan are moving forward with, and support of that agenda by my fellow democrats, to be a betrayal.

That's worth more, to me, than coming to DU, a supposed "left-wing" site, to see regular teacher and public-ed bashing. Some days it feels like "pressing." You know, the practice of placing stones onto a witch as "punishment," until the increasing weight slowly pressed him or her to death.

That's what the "standards and accountability" movement, NCLB, and the privatization drive for the last decade/s have always felt like.

But go ahead. I can take it, for the sake of my profession and my students. Forget that we vote, too. Forget that we are supposed to be allies, not enemies. Go ahead. Bring it on.

[Vidar]

1. My sympathies. I did it for twenty years.

[LWolf]

2. Then you know what I'm talking about. Thanks. nt

[tonysam]

6. Six Years of Professional Teaching Experience,

plus many other years doing related work, and after last year's mess, I don't think I am going back into it. It's great if you have a supportive administrator, but if you get a bad one, like I did, he or she can ruin your career.

It was never, ever that bad in the private sector or any other public sector. Just public schools.

NAPTA

[wolfgangmo]

134. Bad administrators

Suck.

My experience as well and why I don't teach despite my love for it. I've worked in some real shit fields but never any where I've seen such bad management.

[Norquist Nemesis]

202. Speaking of administrator...why aren't THEY being held accountable???

For years now, there's been a continued bashing of teachers, all painted with a bad brush and pointing to teacher's union being the problem. Meanwhile, I've been watching superintendents, principals, and other "administration" compensation increase substantially but not be held accountable for the district's performance.

Just like the financial CEOs and the automaker top dogs, the people at the top are doing fine while the worker bees in the trenches are getting the shaft. Here in Illinois, the top 200 administrative salary in 2008 was $411,511!!! Criminey!!!!!

[Quantess]

3. It's very frustrating to see teachers getting blamed for everything.

Thanks for posting. And thanks for the job you do.

[No.23]

4. You have dreams that are always tense and full of danger...

that some of your students sometimes appear in?

Are those the only kind of dreams that your students appears in?

[LWolf]

11. Well,

sometimes they are fine and I am trying to manage too much at one time.

I've had dreams in which people keep dropping off more students, and the walls keep expanding, until there are a hundred kids in the room, at various grade levels, all chatting and waiting for me to teach them, with an administrator on the way to do an evaluation. That's not about them, lol.

But yes, often they are in crisis. Because it's the students who ARE in crisis in their personal lives that I am haunted by.

[NJCher]

93. tell me about it

I am up at 3:22 a.m. because I awoke thinking of my dear student Carolyn, whose house burned down. For a short time, Carolyn and her child were homeless. Now she has an apartment but I don't know how much in the line of furnishings she was able to salvage.

Still, this student forages ahead. With all these setbacks, she still turned in her rough draft on time, when many other students without these problems did not.

Tears come to my eyes when I think of the cruelty of this world. Everything about her tells me she is a good person. Why did this have to happen to her?


Cher

on edit: I have a friend who works in an antiques/collectibles store who is on the lookout for free things that can help my student furnish her apartment.

[renate]

95. she's had at least a little good luck, too

She has you as a teacher. And she has the drive to get her paper in on time.

I think she will do very very well in the future, better than the kids without the same challenges who don't work as hard. She sounds indomitable.

[LWolf]

127. And your story is a common one.

If people really had any idea how many of our students were in real crisis, how much we do outside of curriculum and instruction, to address those crises, they would be shocked.

While we do it because we are human, because it is in our nature to reach out and lift up when we can, there is certainly a professional connection.

Maslow's hierarchy is played out in public education every day. When those foundational levels are not there, we aren't going to get far with academic and intellectual pursuits.

[Quantess]

97. I like to dream about students half clothed, in Abercrombie commercials.

Stars of Track and Field, that's what I'm talking about. ;)

[Patchuli]

152. Nasty insinuation there, newbie

but welcome to DU anyway. I think...

[checks-n-balances]

5. Yes, thanks for what you do & for what you said.

Here's something I don't think many people have thought of so far...

Some very vocal people seem to think there are a *lot* of bad teachers out there.

I even remember having a few bad ones, too...yeah, about 40+ years ago!!! And it turns out that some of them weren't so much "bad" as too strict for my immature, lazy-assed self back in the day before I cared much about learning for its own sake. Good lord, even my parents and other relatives had some "bad" ones back during the depression & WWII, also. I even had a few whom I would call "verbally abusive", but if they were still alive and working today, they wouldn't be allowed to teach that way.

Also, it's just another right wing meme that "teachers' unions are responsible for all the bad teachers". Teachers' unions would be a good thing to have in today's school atmosphere, but they're not possible in some places, namely the so-called "right to work" states. Today's teachers have to put up with a lot more than they've ever dished out on students or on anyone else.

Have some DUers also forgotten those teachers who have gotten called on the carpet or fired for daring to calling attention to how, in recent years, our government has been chipping away at our civil liberties? Or for allowing students to ask the same questions out loud in class? (I'm talking about in classes where the topic would be appropriate, such as in middle or high school social studies classes, for example.)

Again...It's time that people stopped projecting onto today's teachers the bad memories they may still harboring of some of their own teachers from decades ago. That was then, and this is now. Whatever "bad teachers" were in the system in the past have largely been dismissed, for the most part, and those still out there are few & far between. At least that's true for the ones I've been privileged to call my colleagues for years (in several different settings). So every time someone complains about all the "bad teachers" out there, maybe someone else will ask,

"Are you talking those who teach now, or back in the days of your own childhood?"

And thank you again, LWolf...

-for your thread
-for what you do, regardless of the lack of support, and
-for keeping your focus on the students.

/rant

[LWolf]

12. You're welcome,

and thank YOU for your words of support.

[nxylas]

116. Some of them are parents who believe their little darlings should be allowed to do what they like

Teachers will know what I'm talking about - the parents who go running to the principal every time their child gets disciplined or gets a bad grade. Then they come on DU and complain about how fascist teachers are stifling little Starchild's free expression.

[LuckyLib]

158. Yes! And little Starchild wouldn't be misbehaving and being disrespectful to others if he weren't

"so very bored"!!! (He's gifted, of course . . .)

[nxylas]

205. Of course

Got it in one.

[madfloridian]

7. Yes, the choice of Arne Duncan is a betrayal of America's public school system.

Over 30 years for me, years of dedication.

Now it is going to be turned into something done for the sake of corporations.

We have now achieved the goals of the DLC and its leader Al From.

[LWolf]

13. I don't think I can express

how PROFOUNDLY betrayed I feel, and the grief that I feel for my profession, for my students, and for my nation.

I tried.

You have tried, as well. Thank you for that.

[renate]

8. I've been very lucky with teachers, in both my kids' schools and my own

Good teachers are like demigods to me. They pour so much of themselves into their work. And they have to be a different teacher to each student--some students are challenged by the work, some are bored, some have behavior problems, some are little angels, some are desperate for attention, some are desperate to be left alone... a good teacher has to be a good child psychologist and always alert to when kids aren't getting it or having problems. One of my kids is smart but did terribly in school--somehow (I don't know how) many of his teachers have taken the time to notice that the problem isn't due to a lack of ability but to a lack of effort and have spent a lot of time with us to try to help. How can they tell the difference, especially in an overcrowded classroom? And why do so many of them take the time to try to do something about it, when it'd be easier for them to just say "too bad, you aren't even trying"? Beats me. I love them to pieces. We've had bad teachers too (just a few), so I'm not defending all teachers (although none of them were deliberately cruel... they just shouldn't have been teachers)--but the good ones are very special to me. They make such a big difference in kids' lives, even if the kids can't always appreciate it at the time.

Thank you so much for what you do. :loveya:

[LWolf]

26. You are welcome,

and thank YOU for your words of encouragement.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

9. Teachers, on the whole, try to do well.

Administrators, parents and gov't seem to busy trying to prevent them from succeeding.

That being said, I hope you don't teach grammar. :-)

sP

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. There is absolutely nothing wrong with LWolf's grammar.

There is, however, a spelling error in your post. :)

[ProdigalJunkMail]

106. the grammar is horrid...but the best math teacher i ever had

couldn't string together a coherent sentence on paper if his life depended on it so it really isn't a problem...was just poking fun.

oh, and yes, there is a joke in my sig-line that has been there for a couple of years...something about shapes...and you are the FIRST person to point it out in all this time...i wish i had a prize to give you. :-)

sP

[proud2BlibKansan]

110. I wasn't talking about your sig line

And since I am a teacher with a masters degree, my judgment of the grammar in the OP trumps the judgment of a poor speller. :)

[ProdigalJunkMail]

113. If you believe that grammar is ok...then that is a real problem...

i mean, i understand that this is a message board and the writing is free form, but there are sentence fragments, improper use of commmas and improper placement of prepositions. i don't teach grammar or spelling for a living so it is not a huge deal...i mean, let's face it, i have SEVERE grammar issues in my posts. i'll even go one further: i don't see a misspelling but i will give way to your superior knowledge...i do see that i am missing a word in there...(the sentence was supposed to read "Administrators, parents and gov't seem to BE busy trying to prevent them from succeeding.").

sP

[Blue_Roses]

140. Good grief...

anal-retentive much? I guess you didn't hear a word the OP said 'cause if you would have, you wouldn't be so concerned with petty shit, such as "misplaced prepositions" on a message board.:eyes:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

150. no...not really...that is why i spoke to what i saw as the problem

and just made a passing comment about the grammar...but it appears you don't read all that well either...

sP

[Blue_Roses]

200. ah, add condescending

and pompous to your list of *cough* "talents"...:eyes:

I see that you miss a lot too, but unlike me who just has the excuse of "appearing not to read all that well either..", yours seems to be that you really think too highly of your opinion--something others might see as a wee bit of an arrogant ass.

[LanternWaste]

174. i imagine there's a relevant difference

i imagine there's a relevant difference between the off-the-cuff, no-proofing, one draft only, informal manner of writing on a message board, and the formal, multi-drafted, proofed-worked of in-class awareness.

I typeset for a living. Put me in front of my desk at the office and I'm a minor deity. Put me in front of the computer at my apartment, and the results for the same agenda would be drastically less pleasing-- I imagine most of us put our best efforts forth when necessary...

[Control-Z]

43. What proud2BlibKansan said. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

137. Ridiculous, isn't it

[ProdigalJunkMail]

161. yes it is ridiculous

that you cannot try to have a little fun on a message board poking fun at someone's use of grammar without someone jumping all over you for it. oh, well. i suppose that is what i should expect here. it was just a fucking little poke...but YOU decided to come raging to LWolf's defense...and incorrectly at that.

sP

[proud2BlibKansan]

167. These education discussions have never been "fun"

This is the first education thread in GP in weeks where we teachers are not being called child abusers or accused of being unfit. LWolf wrote a beautiful OP (and no it does not contain any grammatical errors) and you post a comment criticizing her grammar. Falsely. And you made spelling errors in your response. Plus you apparently don't realize sentences begin with capital letters.

So yes I am going to jump to LWolf's defense. If you don't like it you can always hide the thread.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

172. I had no problem with the thread and really still don't

and maybe I just hit on a particularly sensitive subject...for all intents and purposes i agreed with the poster and did nothing more than poke fun trying to add little levity. i suppose i will pick my threads a little more carefully...

oh, by the way, if you believe there is not one grammatical error in that post, then i would seriously reconsider the degree you have. and there was no spelling error in my post though i did miss a word...if you will read a follow-on post you will see that. and last but not least, i didn't come here touting teaching credentials...i KNOW there are hideous grammar flaws in my writing...i choose to make many of them on purpose for reasons you would likely not care to read...but the OP was full of errors in grammatical structure and to claim there are none indicates that you really don't get that in which you claim to have a master's degree.

sP

[ColbertWatcher]

10. I haven't had the chance to do this in a long time: thank you! n/t

[CANDO]

14. I'm on your side.

My step daughter teaches high school chemistry.

[LWolf]

19. Thank you. nt

[mdmc]

15. solidarity

:toast:

[LWolf]

20. Yes.

:toast:

[kid a]

16. I've been a high school teacher since 1993.

Can you be more specific about how the agenda spelled out below is a betrayal?

I see some very positive goals.

**********


from: http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/education/

EDUCATION

President Obama and Vice President Biden believe that our kids and our country can’t afford four more years of neglect and indifference. At this defining moment in our history, America faces few more urgent challenges than preparing our children to compete in a global economy. The decisions our leaders make about education in the coming years will shape our future for generations to come. Obama and Biden are committed to meeting this challenge with the leadership and judgment that has been sorely lacking for the last eight years. Their vision for a 21st century education begins with demanding more reform and accountability, coupled with the resources needed to carry out that reform; asking parents to take responsibility for their children’s success; and recruiting, retaining, and rewarding an army of new teachers to fill new successful schools that prepare our children for success in college and the workforce. The Obama-Biden plan will restore the promise of America’s public education, and ensure that American children again lead the world in achievement, creativity and success.
Early Childhood Education

* Zero to Five Plan: The Obama-Biden comprehensive "Zero to Five" plan will provide critical support to young children and their parents. Unlike other early childhood education plans, the Obama-Biden plan places key emphasis at early care and education for infants, which is essential for children to be ready to enter kindergarten. Obama and Biden will create Early Learning Challenge Grants to promote state Zero to Five efforts and help states move toward voluntary, universal pre-school.
* Expand Early Head Start and Head Start: Obama and Biden will quadruple Early Head Start, increase Head Start funding, and improve quality for both.
* Provide affordable, High-Quality Child Care: Obama and Biden will also increase access to affordable and high-quality child care to ease the burden on working families.

K-12

* Reform No Child Left Behind: Obama and Biden will reform NCLB, which starts by funding the law. Obama and Biden believe teachers should not be forced to spend the academic year preparing students to fill in bubbles on standardized tests. They will improve the assessments used to track student progress to measure readiness for college and the workplace and improve student learning in a timely, individualized manner. Obama and Biden will also improve NCLB's accountability system so that we are supporting schools that need improvement, rather than punishing them.
* Support High-Quality Schools and Close Low-Performing Charter Schools: Barack Obama and Joe Biden will double funding for the Federal Charter School Program to support the creation of more successful charter schools. The Obama-Biden administration will provide this expanded charter school funding only to states that improve accountability for charter schools, allow for interventions in struggling charter schools and have a clear process for closing down chronically underperforming charter schools. Obama and Biden will also prioritize supporting states that help the most successful charter schools to expand to serve more students.
* Make Math and Science Education a National Priority: Obama and Biden will recruit math and science degree graduates to the teaching profession and will support efforts to help these teachers learn from professionals in the field. They will also work to ensure that all children have access to a strong science curriculum at all grade levels.
* Address the Dropout Crisis: Obama and Biden will address the dropout crisis by passing legislation to provide funding to school districts to invest in intervention strategies in middle school -- strategies such as personal academic plans, teaching teams, parent involvement, mentoring, intensive reading and math instruction, and extended learning time.
* Expand High-Quality Afterschool Opportunities: Obama and Biden will double funding for the main federal support for afterschool programs, the 21st Century Learning Centers program, to serve one million more children.
* Support College Outreach Programs: Obama and Biden support outreach programs like GEAR UP, TRIO and Upward Bound to encourage more young people from low-income families to consider and prepare for college.
* Support College Credit Initiatives: Barack Obama and Joe Biden will create a national "Make College A Reality" initiative that has a bold goal to increase students taking AP or college-level classes nationwide 50 percent by 2016, and will build on Obama's bipartisan proposal in the U.S. Senate to provide grants for students seeking college level credit at community colleges if their school does not provide those resources.
* Support English Language Learners: Obama and Biden support transitional bilingual education and will help Limited English Proficient students get ahead by holding schools accountable for making sure these students complete school.
* Recruit Teachers: Obama and Biden will create new Teacher Service Scholarships that will cover four years of undergraduate or two years of graduate teacher education, including high-quality alternative programs for mid-career recruits in exchange for teaching for at least four years in a high-need field or location.
* Prepare Teachers: Obama and Biden will require all schools of education to be accredited. Obama and Biden will also create a voluntary national performance assessment so we can be sure that every new educator is trained and ready to walk into the classroom and start teaching effectively. Obama and Biden will also create Teacher Residency Programs that will supply 30,000 exceptionally well-prepared recruits to high-need schools.
* Retain Teachers: To support our teachers, the Obama-Biden plan will expand mentoring programs that pair experienced teachers with new recruits. They will also provide incentives to give teachers paid common planning time so they can collaborate to share best practices.
* Reward Teachers: Obama and Biden will promote new and innovative ways to increase teacher pay that are developed with teachers, not imposed on them. Districts will be able to design programs that reward with a salary increase accomplished educators who serve as a mentors to new teachers. Districts can reward teachers who work in underserved places like rural areas and inner cities. And if teachers consistently excel in the classroom, that work can be valued and rewarded as well.

[madfloridian]

17. The phasing out of public schools. Bottom line.

You can argue and pretend, but all those new types of schools and vouchers are taking money from public schools as they demand more of them.

All of those things can be done in a traditional public school setting if only they quit defunding public education.

Merit pay is turning children into test taking robots in order to judge teachers unfairly.

Public schools were fine and good until Reagan's time when the corporations decided to take a piece of the public education pie.

Then they started talking down the schools. It has succeeded very well.

Kiss your public schools goodby as Arne in his own words institutes more test taking.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/3757

[cmd]

114. Precisely

.

[LWolf]

18. Charter schools, merit pay, and

the competition for, and compliance with federal demands, in order to access supposed "stimulus" money, to begin with.

You've posted policy papers.

I'm talking about actions.

Do you need some links to explain Arne Duncan?

Do you not understand that Charter schools are a privatizer's tool to divide, sort, further inequalities, and further the privatization agenda?

Do you not understand the inherent difficulties, and inevitable corruption, connected to merit pay?

If not, one post will not be sufficient, but I'll be glad to gather a bunch of links for you.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

21. For one thing, charter schools allow savvy parents to separate their kids

from those they believe to be inferior.

In my ideal school system, everyone would get the same schooling through tenth grade. Kindergarten would be devoted to socialization, development of imagination, sequencing skills, oral language, listening, concentration, and memory (through non-academic means such as games and being read to), and lots of art projects to develop eye-to-hand coordination. No reading or formal math, except counting games. In grades 1-10, everyone would learn (in addition to reading and math) English composition, literature, geography and history (starting with the community and radiating outward to the state, the nation, the hemisphere, and the world), natural science (both book learning and hands-on), political science (in the sense of knowing how governments work), music (singing in tune--this can be taught to most people who can't do it instinctively-- and eventually in parts, a musical instrument), art, at least four years of a foreign language (beginning in sixth grade), and a type of physical education that emphasizes personal fitness.

No classroom would have more than twenty students. The poorer the district, the better the student-teacher ratio. The poorest schools would have a maximum class size of ten.

After tenth grade (which under my system would cover the same as the first twelve years of a standard school, students could go into any number of vocational tracks, a commercial track (for the people who major in business today), a science-math track, or a humanities track. The community colleges would provide for people who graduated from one track and wanted to try another later.

[madfloridian]

25. Yes. Charter, magnet, choice schools set up a two-tier system.

Which will end up making the lower tier inferior because the funds are being taken away.

Because teachers will be judged and graded if they are in a lower tier school.

Because it is meant to destroy the public school.

[October]

41. Well... public school nearly destroyed my son

I was one of the most supportive parents of public schools and teachers, but when my son didn't fit in the box, we were lost.

He was tested as suggested, and found not to be of 130 IQ, so he did not qualify for the gifted program. He was not dyslexic, so did not qualify for other attention. The teachers were baffled and said they hadn't seen anyone like him. (His crime? Handwriting issues. He was flagged from K-3 by every teacher. Their solution was a pencil grip. Not kidding. That was it. Nothing changed. He was just punished for writing slow and big, and I was told he just wasn't motivated or was lazy. He missed recess because he didn't finish his work, etc. It was crazy. He was 7!)

Our principal (tiny district, affluent) told me that my son "presents differently..." and then added..."this might not be the best place for your son." Well, I still cry at those words. It was the ONLY school in our tiny district.

The virtual charter school saved my son and our family. We didn't want a parochial school. Private schools around here are $25-30K a year. I don't think for a minute that virtual charter schools are for everyone. Most are fine in the public schools! Very few go this route, but it has worked for us.

We also discovered that our son is a gifted ballet dancer and has been invited (at 11) to travel with a professional ballet company this fall. Highly unusual. He was accepted into ABT's summer program in NY. So, for this "outside the box," right-brained kid of mine, the public school did not fit.

I have never had such positive support as we do from our charter school teachers. No one bashes anyone -- especially public schools. They reevaluated my son and said his writing was definitely an issue and now he works with an OT once a week. He's no longer embarrassed to sign his name, etc., and can type his essays.

I had recommended the book "Upside Down Brilliance: the Visual-Spatial Learner" as a reference to his teachers in our district and they COMPLETELY ignored me and all but rolled their eyes. Yes, I had done research online -- which they scoffed at.

It was the most humiliated process of my life. I was traumatized. I picked up my son's belongings, which were left in a GAP bag on the desk in the front office. No one called, no one questioned, and the office was vacant when I picked up his stuff. I left in tears. It was NOT what I wanted. I'm a soft-spoken individual, but I went to Bryn Mawr College and finished at the Art Institute (no art courses at Bryn Mawr). Anyway, I'm not an idiot -- but they treated me like I knew nothing.

No one is more surprised than me to have left our district! Trust me!

I have 2 loving relatives who are professional teachers in the public schools. We're not trying to destroy anything. We truly had only our son's best interests at heart. We saved him a lot of angst.

Years earlier, my daughter asked to be home schooled for high school so that she could pursue a career in ballet. She's now 19. We built her curriculum to mirror the school's. I knew I could only take her to pre-calculus (I should've stayed at Bryn Mawr!), and then I hired a tutor. For courses in Biology, I had her test at our local community college and at the age of 15, she was admitted and took courses there with great success.

Sorry for the lengthy reply. I just wanted to point out that there are many of us with kids in many different schools and situations. I thought public school fit all -- but it did not fit my son. And when the principal said it -- what was I to do? Someone said to sue him -- but I liked him. And while it hurt to hear it, he was probably right.


Edited to add: I forgot to thank you and all the great teachers out there. I had a few favorites, too.

[madfloridian]

49. They are defunding such programs.

That is why there are so many problems.

But it is too late now to rebuild the public schools.

[October]

190. Yes, indeed.

We are a small district with few options.

We have 4 schools:

K-2
3-5
6-8
9-12

We had no alternatives or any way to meet my son's needs because he did not fall within the parameters set. They literally did not know what to do with him and offered nothing at all. Nothing. I was lost.

[October]

194. My son is not in any special kind of program

He's just learning at his pace at the virtual charter school.

He was tested in our district and the charter school tested him, as well. They reached similar results. The difference was in how they handled it.

He works with an O.T. once a week. Period. It's for his handwriting, nothing else.

[mzteris]

52. your son has

dysgraphia . . .

Funny - so does my son, who also wants to be a ballet dancer. He came to it late, however. He's now 15 and has only had ballet for just over 2 years (9 months of which he had a broken 4th metatarsal). He'd KILL for a spot at ABT. lol.... He's just now getting back into a heavier practice schedule and should be released for full participation by August. (He's not getting to do a Summer Intensive, either. :( )

BTW - I also pulled my son out because of the school's inability and refusal to even try and comprehend his issues. They, too, treated me like I was a complete idiot. It was the last thing I ever expected to do, but when your kid cries every day because the teacher REFUSES TO EVEN TALK TO HIM!! due to the principal's burr up her ass - then it's time to take drastic action.

Charter schools are heavily peopled by minorities, so I don't understand where this "elitism" charge is coming from, either.

If public schools were doing the job, then we wouldn't be having so many problems. I don't think it's the TEACHER's fault (usually), but the system IS broken. We MUST make drastic changes in the way it is structured, the approach, the methodology, everything.

[madfloridian]

55. If schools received proper funding they could do the job.

That is if the administration let the teachers do their job. I often referred students for help, testing, and a special program to help them. I was usually not able to accomplish what was needed for the child..

But you guys will have your charter schools now, and the public schools will die out soon.

[mzteris]

60. one more time - Charter Schools ARE PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

geesh

:eyes:

[madfloridian]

63. Then fund the public schools, hire good teachers, let them teach.

Why start a whole new system of schools?

No, all charter schools are not public schools. That is misleading. The official definition is that they are a partnership with public schools and business.

[mzteris]

66. every "official" definition I've read says they are PUBLIC

schools.

I'm sorry the old system doesn't work, but it isn't, and hasn't for quite a while (hell, *I* had the same issues when I was in school lo those many years ago. lol)

Something has to change. And if the "system" isn't then people are going to look for something that does work. Charters have galvanized some school systems. They have shown that a different approach can and does work.

Too many people are caught up in some type of nostalgia for the way "school" used to be. Although, I'm not all that sure it was every that great to begin with. It "worked" because kids dropping out used to be okay. It "worked" because you either fit in or you got out. It "worked" because they were these homogenized groups and deviating from the "norm" was NOT tolerated in any way, shape, form, or fashion.

Smaller classes, better pay for teachers (MUCH better pay!! ), administrators who are trained EDUCATORS!, Smaller classes, more arts & literature and music and recess, alternative methods of teaching, better training - especially in the areas of recognizing learning differences, accommodations, and "differentiation", alternative methods of "grouping" (as in ability, not age...) did I mention SMALLER CLASSES????

[SpiderMom]

68. Just wanted to say AMEN! (nt)

[madfloridian]

69. They are going to be changed. We are losing the public schools under Arne

and Obama.

You will get your wish.

I disagree about the definition. I have a lot of info saved that I wrote about. But you can research as much as I can...lots of good sites.

Public schools are now a way of the past.

I think they will join Medicare and Social Security in being phased out.

[mzteris]

176. From FLA DEPT OF EDUCATION website:

Charter Schools

Charter schools are public schools of choice. They are very popular—and among the fastest growing school choice options in Florida. Charter schools are largely free to innovate, and often provide more effective programs and choice to diverse groups of students.

Since 1996, the number of charter schools in Florida has grown from 5 to 389 schools in 2008-2009. Charter school student enrollment for 2008-2009 was well over 100,000 students. Over 50 new charter schools have opened in the 2008-2009 school year.

http://www.floridaschoolchoice.org/Information/charter_schools/



hmmmmmmmmmm - seems pretty plain to me.

[mopinko]

70. they sure are here. and they are WAY more accountable than the regular

schools are. don't perform, don't keep the parents involved and supportive, kids don't perform, kaboom. your charter is gone.
charters here serve the troubled kids that so often just flunk out. there is one that allowed the renowned university of chicago lab school (where the obama girls used to go) to expand and serve many kids that would likely have failed badly in the schools in that neighborhood.
and for all those who think that the chicago teachers union has been smashed by arne duncan- ctu has something like 10 charters.

[proud2BlibKansan]

78. They are not traditional public schools

Geesh yourself.

When will you get it through your head that not all charters are the same? The ones in my state are not like the ones in your state.

We have had this discussion way too many times.

[mzteris]

175. but they are PUBLIC schools, just the same . . .

When will *I* get it through MY head?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I think I have a much better understanding of charters across the country than you guys seem to. All you want to see is the bad bad bad - have you ever once tried to find the good?

[Hannah Bell]

98. They're Trojan Horses for privatization.

[October]

184. Yes, thank you. I agree. I tread carefully on this issue because it's a hot topic /nt

[October]

191. I don't think so. There are very few of us who don't fit in!

It's not like there's a mass exodus. My son is not in the majority by any stretch of the imagination. This is an unusual situation -- dysgraphia or VSL (Visual-Spatial Learner).

A lot of people in virtual (or bricks and mortar) charter schools often have other children in the district schools.

I have a good friend who has one in a private school and two in the public school. And she's on the BOARD! We're all just trying to find ways to meet our kids' needs.

I was just trying to be the best advocate for my little guy. We spent a full year on testing, etc., only to reach no conclusion. The teacher was baffled and said she hadn't seen anything like it in 30+ years of teaching. No one knew what to do!

Typing is great. He writes his reports/essays with the laptop now. But he can give autographs now with the OT help!!! LOL!

[October]

188. Thank you for your reply!!!

I'd looked into dysgraphia, and when I brought it up, the principal's and teachers' reaction was WAY worse than I expected. I was just trying to bring things to the table -- my books, information on the research I'd done, etc. They were totally looking down their noses at me and I felt terrible. Anyway, they asked me if I really wanted to go down that route of having him diagnosed with a neurological disorder or something. It was crazy. Scared me to death! I was just trying to get assistance or information.

My son has OT once a week for handwriting only. LOL! He has absolutely no other fine motor issues at all -- his trouble is specifically and only to do with handwriting (cursive or printing). That's why I looked into dysgraphia! But still, no one else ever mentions it. I figured it was just like dyslexia only with writing. Can you recommend a book or web site?

And like you, I've noticed our charter school has a ton of kids with special needs/differences. It's a safe haven for them. They can learn at their own pace without punishment or humiliation. We get a lot of support and more positive feedback than ever! It brings me to tears.

Anyway, it's really quite amazing that our sons have so much in common! We should PM! Many boys start ballet late, but they can do it! My son was fortunate in that he has an older sister who is a serious ballet student, and two supportive parents. He started at 8 after watching boys warm up in the ABT studio. It just clicked. He'd only ever seen girls (and his sister) do ballet -- so he saw those older guys and was like "I want to do that!!!" He dropped football so fast. LOL! My daughter went to ABT/NY for a summer and loved it! She was taught by the best of the best in NY! Wow!

We just got a call today, and the ballet company has now invited our son to be in their production of La Sylphide this spring.

He's only 11, and he's in demand. Crazy.

Sorry to hijack thread and turn it into a ballet theme.

[SpiderMom]

196. Really wonderful...

I absolutely love hearing how happy your son is now! How wonderful that he has a Mom who is letting him pursue his natural gifts!! Really awesome. Sounds like you have found such a wonderful, nurturing environment for him. So glad that things have turned around for you guys.

Mind if I ask what part of the country you are in? We are in NC.

[October]

207. We live in Pennsylvania

Thank you for that supportive reply!

:)

[SpiderMom]

56. Didn't fit my son either...

My son has Asperger's... just recently figured that out after going through extensive occupational therapy, cognitive therapy for anxiety, treatment for ADD, etc. over the past 2.5 years.

We had a very, very similar situation with the handwriting. The teachers pushed and harassed him so much about his handwriting, to the point that he just refused to even write anymore. He began to equate writing with handwriting, and it was so upsetting to me as a mother who had seen him have so much confidence before going into public school. The teachers simply didn't have time to give him the things that he truly needed to help him function well in the environment... except a pencil grip! We had many, many other challenges too in public school... but the handwriting issue you described sounded so familiar.

We also could not afford private schools, and did not get into any of the charter schools we tried due to the lottery system and huge waiting lists. We decided to homeschool this year, and it's been an incredible experience for us. Not the right choice for everyone, but it has changed our family into one that was not functioning into one that is learning, laughing, and working every single day.

[Maat]

75. Come over and join us in our DU homeschooling group!

I'm not sure - you may have to make a small donation to the site to participate in the groups.

But we do have a DU Homeschooling Group.

I love homeschooling. My kid and I have so much fun, and her skills have improved to a degree I never thought possible. She has not only caught up - she's moving ahead!

I have her tutored in math by a college kid, whom she just loves. That college kid is such a wonderful role model.

Homeschooling through the charter school restored our relationship, which began to suffer in 3rd grade. I began homeschooling in the middle of 4th grade - and she's enjoyed learning ever since. We take our time with a particular concept until she really "gets it."

[October]

192. Thank you for sharing

Wow! You've been through a lot! I sympathize. I really do. It was the most stressful year of my life, and it was all very negative.

My son's sense of self suffered, too -- so we pulled him out at the first sign of it. He's in a VIRTUAL charter school. It's not technically considered home schooling, but that's what it is. We have a supervisor/teacher with whom we conference every 2 weeks. Plus, he has online classes, etc. It's truly been a life saver! And now that he's so into ballet and performing with a major company, etc., his confidence is huge. He has the lead role with a major company in Nutcracker. I think back on the psychologist telling me that maybe he's just "lazy," or whatever -- and I cringe. Look what we almost missed!

At the time she said that, my son was playing classical piano, electric guitar and the cello. He was also on a football team and played other sports. He was always good -- and they even gave him a "good manners" award! So, there wasn't a behavior issue. He's not perfect...sorry if I come off that way... but he's a really good kid who gets along so well with adults.

Oh well.

I'm digressing.

I'm so happy you were able to find home schooling. It isn't for everyone. No way! The idea that we are ruining schools is absurd. Most people (moms) think I'm insane for doing this. LOL!

Bravo to you, too. I'm glad you have joy in your home again!

[n2doc]

111. I have a very similar story about my son

Had to take him out of Kindergarten because he wouldn't "draw right" for them. I sympathize for the teachers but there are some schools and teachers who are capable of destroying a child's life. So the answer cannot be to force everyone to attend public schools, no matter what. Frankly the Private schools, unless one is in a major metro area, aren't much better and don't offer anything other than cookie cutter education.

[October]

208. Yes, I agree.

I'm sorry about your son. It seems they really pick on these kids who can't write. I suppose that's how it was before dyslexia was understood, too.

Are you and your son in a better place now?

[wolfgangmo]

135. NCLB

Consider for a moment what happens when your funding and reputation is tied to standardized tests... And then think about what this did to the school that your son attended.


Schools cannot be all things to all people but they used to have room in them for multitudes.

[SpiderMom]

156. You are absolutely correct...

NCLB was likely to blame for some of the issues described by that mother. It was certainly to blame for some of the problems my child faced in public schools, and for many the problems so many kids all over the country are facing.

Thank God I had a CHOICE to take my child out of those broken public schools and put him in a better situation! We need more choices, not less.

[mzteris]

177. some of the blame -

yes.

Well before NCLB these same issues affected hundreds of thousands of students. (Me, for one - my brother, his daughter, my daughter) myriad states covering two generations.... and then my older son.

My younger's never had a problem. Then again, he's always gone to a Charter (two different Charter schools - two different states). :shrug:

[LWolf]

182. One of the reasons why

public schools do not fit "all" is the persistent efforts to standardize us.

Standardization = "one size fits all," and there is no such thing.

The current agenda is to standardize "regular" public schools into irrelevant dysfunction, and to encourage "outside the system" schools as a way to encourage people to accept privatization. It's a trojan horse.

That's only one of the reasons why, of course. When the system operates under a "threaten, bribe, and punish" accountability system, the system is not as open to anyone whose "different presentation" might bring punishment down on the school. It's not right, but it's real.

There are multiple solutions. One is to do away with the standards and accountability movement and standardization, and allow EVERY school the flexibility to customize their program. Then allow EVERY family a choice within those public schools. Not schools run by private for-profit or non-profit corporations or organizations. Allow that flexibility WITHIN the system.

Another is to require differentiation of curriculum and instruction, and assessment, and to reduce class size enough to allow it to be workable.

There are plenty of other ways to make sure that our public schools are all-inclusive. All we need is the freedom, flexibility, and encouragement to do so.

I'm sorry that your experience was bad.

[Patchuli]

197. You are so correct!

"public schools do not fit "all" is the persistent efforts to standardize us." Amen to that!!

[October]

209. Well stated

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

That's the perfect term: standardization.

Our school had zero flexibility. It's a small district, and my son is an "out of the box" type kid in a school system that had a smaller box than most.

I felt so sorry for the teachers when I learned that they had to administer October standardized tests to best judge what to cover for the April standardized state tests. They all feel as though the profession has changed, and they aren't free to do as they once did.

Our culture isn't one to value creativity, and everyone suffers because of it.

[BobTheSubgenius]

193. My nephew has a similar learning disability.

He has a lot of problems with trying to make his hand do what his eyes see. He was still printing block capitals - slowly and labouriously - while his classmates were writing cursive script. However, in every other area, he scored from well above average to gifted.

Luckily, my sister and her husband have the means to get him help, but he only went to a private school for as long as it took him to.....not exactly catch up, but to advance far enough that public school was again an option. He's now in Engineering and universities don't care quite so much about handwriting; in fact, now that he can use a computer instead, he is excelling.

Not everyone is lucky enough to have that kind of disposable income, though, and a good part of his success can be attributed to the PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHERS that took enough interest in him to realize he had a very specialized need and to get the ball rolling, in as much as they were able, within their system.

[October]

210. Thank you for sharing that

We didn't get any support, and they weren't interested in my research.

I'm glad it worked so well for your nephew. His parents found a way! Good for them. And good for the teachers who listened and helped.

Our district should be ashamed. We were very supportive and involved. It still boggles the mind.

[LWolf]

32. Those are some great ideas.

And you are correct about the parental "sorting" function, of course.

I have enough ideas to fill volumes when it comes to healing, to re-creating, our system to positively serve our students.

As long as schools are seen to be the "enemy" that must be "controlled" and "punished" by politicians, we won't have an opportunity to bring our ideas to the table.

If the day dawns that we can, though, I will be there in a heartbeat.

The first step is to get rid of the standardization of public schools, while allowing a few "elite" schools the flexibility that we don't have.

The next step is to put testing back where it belongs; as a measure of student progress, not teacher or school accountability.

:hi:

[checks-n-balances]

33. Sounds like the education I received in public schools

of North Carolina, all through the 1960's. Our governor, Terry Sanford, was very supportive of excellence in education and later was Duke University President. The state superintendent instituted opportunities for foreign language study by 7th grade, provided for arts education, upgraded physical education, etc. My 4th grade classroom was multi-cultural for that day and time, and a mainstreamed blind student was just another classmate with us all day.

All this in the day that some parents began to pull their children out of those excellent public schools for fear that their children's education would suffer due to desegregation. Eventually it became a self-fulfilling prophecy because we lost a lot of parental support from those who had the time during the day to give it (mostly stay-at-home moms).

I strongly believe that charter schools & vouchers are part of a privatization scheme that will eventually pull even more financial support from the public schools. I don't believe that Obama intends that outcome, but also don't believe he has examined the issue in the presence of those who see it for what it really is. It has its origins in the Reagan administration and has been refined throughout the years to make changes in incremental stages - slow enough to almost go unnoticed by the public.

One puzzling thing about your post, Lydia: please tell me what you mean by

"charter schools allow savvy parents to separate their kids from those they believe to be inferior."

That sounds like the rationalizations that parents used when they pulled their children out of the public schools I grew up attending. (Please tell me you don't believe that the "inferior" kids are the ones at the public schools! or am I just misunderstanding your statement?)

Edit: forgot to make the reference to desegregation

[Lydia Leftcoast]

37. No, I said "those they BELIEVE to be inferior"

In other words, parents choose a charter school that requires a fair amount of sophistication to even understand what it is: a Montessori school, a Waldorf School, or a Free School, all of which are popular among upper middle class types but not commonly known among the general public.

Their aim is an exclusive private school education without tuition. If, say, Montessori schools ever became popular among poor people, the yuppies would pull their children out.

[checks-n-balances]

40. Thanks for clarifying that for me

The reason I found it confusing was that it seemed connected to your description of the kind of school you would like to see. I didn't see any transition between the two and that was "my bad".

I was also confused because it didn't sound like you at all, based on what I remember about so many of your posts in the past. For some reason, I haven't noticed seeing you much on DU lately and I'm glad to be seeing you around here again!

[LWolf]

38. I'm sure she'll weigh in,

but I believe she is correct.

Not that my kids are "inferior" in any way.

That charter schools are a tool that parents, AND THE CHARTER SCHOOLS THEMSELVES, use to segregate.

It's not fashionable to be racist, or classist, for that matter.

That doesn't mean that some aren't, of course, and charter schools are the "new and improved" segregation.

Charter schools don't have to take all students who want to attend. They can eject students who don't seem to "fit."

Some charter schools require more parent involvement, which automatically filters out the neediest kids.

Transportation is an issue, too. Charter schools aren't "neighborhood" schools" with a reasonable bus route. Some don't bus; parents have to transport.

Those that DO bus, drawing from a wider area, usually have longer bus rides that discourage students who don't have parents who can transport them from attending.

[CaptJasHook]

151. I don't know about your state,

Half of what you said is opinion and the other half is blatantly false in my state.

[proud2BlibKansan]

165. And it is mostly true in my state

[LWolf]

180. It's not opinion, it's

experience. Having been there and done that. In two states and multiple districts.

My current state IS your state, so perhaps you aren't as well-versed in the issue as you seem to think.

[Hannah Bell]

99. "I don't believe that Obama intends that outcome" I think his appointments,

his Chicago background (Chicago being one of the charter testing grounds), & his support from Bill Gates (Gates being a big funder of education "reform" through his foundation) indicate he does intend it.

[checks-n-balances]

117. I'll admit that you could be right.

Add into that mix his own history of attending private schools. I hope we're not as screwed as is sounds, but you could be right.

[redqueen]

132. So they were in Chicago before the "first" one opened in MN? (nt)

[Hannah Bell]

163. i didn't say that, did i?

[redqueen]

164. No, which is why I asked for clarification.

Not sure why you sound so hostile there.

[Hannah Bell]

169. you're reading into my question as well. i didn't understand your question as asking for

clarification.

michigan charter legislation 1993, illinois 1997.

[mopinko]

47. you are perfectly incorrect. i didn't choose to separate my kids from

"inferiors". i don't think people do that. people choose a school that fits their child. they could give a shit who sits next to them.
one size does not fit all. it never has, it never will. even in first grade. kids on either end of "the bell curve" (inadequate as that expression is) need a different type of experience from the kids in the middle. those kids deserve to have their needs met.

in chicago, arne duncan, and his predecessor, paul valles, didn't empty out public schools. they all but destroyed the catholic schools system, which for decades was the only alternative to the public schools.
these policies are not words on paper here, they are schools. and the improvement has been steady and strong.

[Hippo_Tron]

89. People do separate their kids from the inferiors (my parents included)

It is generally done with the best of intentions "I want my kid to have the best education possible" but they absolutely do it. That said I don't see why Charter Schools inherently have to be a separating mechanism. If you write a law that the charter school has to accept X amount of kids from poor neighborhoods and then the rest of them are middle class then you've diversified a school in a way that the public schools can't because of the way the districts are drawn.

[noamnety]

108. Your last line speaks to the truth

Middle and upper middle class people move to neighborhoods where they can live and send their children to schools where "inferior" kids don't attend.

They can pretend that's not the case cause it's just a regular old public school, but the segregation is every bit as real, and more rigidly imposed, than at charter schools.

Michelle Obama went to Chicago's first magnet high school - an extremely selective one (20 applicants for every available spot), and credits her education in part for where she is today. It's very unlikely they will be arguing against magnets or charters since she's a successful product of one.

[mopinko]

148. that may be how things work out, but i don't think that is what drives

too many people. finding the most appropriate schooling is not the same as the "best" schooling. i don't even want to get into this thing, since i know how it goes over around here, but gifted kids deserve an appropriate education as much as any kid with special needs. that is not about best. "normal" kids would not benefit from most of the things that gifted kids need. it is not elitist. it is not about sitting with the unwashed. it is not about prejudice. it's about fit. the right fit.
the parents of kids with problems usually work even harder to find the right place for their kids. but those spots aren't really there, either.
i just have to wholeheartedly reject your statement that finding the best education for your kid has anything to do with prejudice.

[SpiderMom]

53. Why bother teaching academics in kindergarten???

So in your ideal school system, my child would go absolutely insanely crazy with boredom in kindergarten. (And, by the way, that is exactly what happened two years ago when he did enter kindergarten).

FYI, my child taught himself to read at three years old, with absolutely no pushing by me or his father. He was driven to do so. His brother, who just turned three this month, can already count to 15 and has started doing simple addition. In your mind it would be great for kids like mine to do absolutely nothing academic in kindergarten but socialize and do art projects?? Ridiculous.

What do you honestly think would happen to children such as mine in a kindergarten class like that? What DID happen, was that he turned into an anxiety-ridden basket case. He had nothing to occupy his mind in the classroom (except things he had already learned, in many cases two years earlier), and so he coped by worrying about EVERYTHING! Half-way through the school year, I couldn't even stand in my own front yard because he thought a car was going to run off of the road in our deserted subdivision and run me over.

A kindergarten as you describe might be beautiful for some children, but you cannot have a one-size-fits-all education system and expect it to work for all the kids out there who vary so widely in their abilities and needs. There are many other kids at the opposite end of the spectrum who cannot be ignored either.

Furthermore, how on EARTH do you believe that parents who choose charter schools are separating their kids from those they believe to be inferior?? For starters, you have to get into charter schools via a lottery system. There is no cherry picking of who goes and who doesn't based on anything other than luck of the draw.

I am with you on having more things like geography, history, science, etc. in public schools, but you are very misguided in some of your other opinions.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

58. Your child is obviously advanced, but a lot of kids are

not developmentally ready for academic work in kindergarten. They feel like failures at age five.

I already knew how to read at age five, but I enjoyed kindergarten. We played a lot of games (you can be intellectually stimulated without reading), sang, acted out stories, did a lot of art projects, and learned dances.

By the way, did you know that in Russia and much of Europe, they don't teach reading till age seven?

[SpiderMom]

61. But some kids ARE ready!

I absolutely understand that many kids aren't ready for academic work in kindergarten, but explain to me what would happen to kids who obviously are in a system as you described? And my son certainly wasn't alone.

My child's kindergarten class in fact was very much like you described. The teacher wanted the kids to have "fun" and told me and my husband to back off... let him just have fun. Which, by the way, we weren't doing anything to pressure him in any way, but she couldn't believe that he was self-driven to learn. We saw our child crashing fast, and we tried to do everything that she asked of us. Backing off and letting him "have fun" was just not fun for him. He wanted to LEARN... and he still craves that each and every day of his life.

The fact is that some kids really, really do want and need academic stimulation at an early age. Just as some kids are not ready in kindergarten, many kids really and truly are. I think it would be horrible to hold the ones back who are ready!

How would you handle groups of kids who are so very different in their abilities? And what would a child like mine do for that year of kindergarten? Do you propose that he just hang out and wait until 1st grade to expand upon his already vast knowledge of math, reading, etc.? But then, beginning in first grade, he would be bored out of his mind yet again as the other kids were just beginning to learn the things that he already had already learned THREE years ago. How does that work? Education just can't work as a one-size-fits-all system.

And I'm glad for many reasons not to be in either Russia or Europe, but that's just me.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

62. My parents provided plenty of reading material and discussion at home

so I didn't feel intellectually starved. Kindergarten was a chance to approach learning in another way.

There should be gifted programs (REAL gifted programs for children like your son and others, regardless of economic level, not "gifted" programs that yuppies with mildly above-average children can badger their way into), but learning is more than just books.

[SpiderMom]

67. I tried to do that...

I tried my best to give my son plenty of intellectual stimulation when he got home, but after being at school for 7.5 hours he was simply unable to function at home. He was drained and became uninterested in learning anything at that point. My voracious, insatiable reader became a non-reader. My little boy who once had an incredible imagination, created his own language, and lived in a world of fun and silliness suddenly wanted to do nothing but lie on the couch and watch television until bedtime. It hurt my heart.

I understand that my child is beyond the norm, but there are gifted kids in many classrooms (and not the yuppy kind you referred to - I totally know what you mean!) who can't just hang out and have "fun" for their entire kindergarten year. Plus, not all gifted kids come from homes where parents have the resources to stimulate their minds after school. My good friend has a gifted child, but she works two jobs and simply has just enough time to come home and get him fed and put to bed at night. He gets nothing except what's provided at school, and there is no other way in their family.

Giving kids who need intellectual stimulation nothing to challenge their minds at school is cruel. And real gifted programs would be wonderful, but the word "gifted" is almost a dirty word these days. There is no attention being given to truly gifted children, and I can't see that changing anytime soon... but that is an entirely different debate.

[Hannah Bell]

100. all children are gifted. the cruelty is much deeper than you portray, &

charter schools will further deepen it.

[SpiderMom]

154. All children have gifts. All children are not gifted.

This is a semantics problem, and your statement is absurd.

[proud2BlibKansan]

166. That's because gifted education is expensive

and schools are struggling to pay bills these days. I don't see gifted programs being enhanced or added anytime soon.

[SpiderMom]

195. And so...

What should parents of gifted children do??? Right now, as the education system currently stands, what are the parents of gifted, or in my case "exceptionally gifted" (IQ > 150) supposed to do with our children??

[proud2BlibKansan]

206. None of us should depend on the schools to provide all of our kids' education

Some of my own kids' most valuable learning experiences were the ones I provided. Music lessons, art classes, sports, outdoor experiences. They still remember those fondly.

[mdmc]

157. read the replies my friend

Obama will support the working class the same as Clinton did.

[Maine-ah]

22. K&R

I watched my father do it for 20 years. Teaching and sailing were his passions. When he quit teaching HS, he taught boating courses for adults.

Keep up the good work! :hi:

[yurbud]

23. my fiancee is a special ed teacher who loses sleep over her abused students

Most teachers care deeply about their work, but instead of helping them, the public kicks them and makes their job harder and harder and then blames teachers for not producing results in a system hamstrung by political forces that want it to fail.

Make no mistake, from a conservative point of view, NCLB is designed to make public ed look bad and provide ammunition to further defund it. For the sake of looking bipartisan or simply out of DLC corruption, Democrats go along with this agenda and betray some of their most faithful voters and the people that even Karl Rove acknowledged create Democratic voters:

“As people do better, they start voting like Republicans - unless they have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be too much of a good thing”

[LWolf]

29. You have noticed, and I thank you.

Some of my students come from abusive and/or neglectful situations.

Some come from loving parent/s, but from generational poverty and illiteracy.

Some are homeless.

Some are struggling to manage, not a divorce or a blended family, but frequent divorces and re-blendings, and the leaving behind of "former" siblings.

Some have health issues. Some have learning disabilities, and some of those are profound. We mainstream our students as much as possible, and I am profoundly grateful for the hard work our special ed teachers do to make that process positive for them.

Many are experiencing the rise in stress due to financial concerns.

All deserve the best we can give them.

[ulysses]

24. I seem to have already recommended this.

Someone had to be the lamb. Looks like we're it.

[LWolf]

36. .

:hi:

[annabanana]

27. K and a big R. .

Unsung heroes.

[EFerrari]

28. K&R

[AnnInLa]

30. Public school teacher here too

mainly math (some social studies subjects) to learning-disabled high-school students. My love is algebra. I know...yuck.

There was a time in this country when the middle class (mainly white) became the backbone of the country, and the country became prosperous (for whites) and powerful. In addition to unions, the one thing that made this country great was public education. Once the same quality of public education was made accessible to all people, the potential for equality was maximized. Public education is the great equalizer. Repeating: Public education is the great equalizer. If public education was not a political football, if public education was financed properly, and teachers were allowed to teach their content areas, instead of teaching-to-tests, this country would reach new heights through as educated, expanded middle-class.

Public education is not the evil it is made out to be. For example: When tests are compared to tests taken in other countries, one must remember something: those countries are mainly culturally non-diverse. All kids start with the same set of values, references....unlike the U.S., which is very culturally diverse, with students with different frames of reference for everything. Naturally, comparing test scores to scores in other countries is just not sensible.

The reason (besides racism) the RWers put down public education so much, is because they FEAR the equalization of the potential for advancement for all people. Some people must be kept down....keep them down via inferior education. Fight the proper financing for public education, and weigh down the system with tests that are ultimately self-defeating. Then public education will become totally ineffective, and those who can't afford expensive private education will be kept in their place thru poor education that trains them for nothing. This is the reason I cannot ever support vouchers, charters, home-schooling. The only way to have a great country again with a strong middle class is to promote public education more than we do professional sports, more than we do entertainment....making public education the main priority of government and people. Over and out.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. K and R and hallalooya

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:



:yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock:



:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:



:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:


So proud to know you and consider you not only a respected colleague but a terrific online friend. You inspire me. Thanks so so much for this absolutely wonderful post. :hug:

[Fire1]

34. K&R .

[bvar22]

39. Proud to STAND with you, LWolf.

:patriot:

K&R

[LWolf]

121. Thank you. nt

[checks-n-balances]

42. I can only recommend this excellent thread only once...

but I can sure kick it again.

Thanks again for starting this discussion, LWolf. It's been one of the more supportive threads on DU in my recent memory concerning public education and public school teachers.

[LWolf]

122. You're welcome.

It is heartening to see the support.

I start every day with my students with a smile, even if we've had one of those painfully endless, useless staff meetings. They look at me and grin, I grin back, and I'm glad to be with them. If we aren't glad to be there, to be with each other, then we're not going to learn much that day.

A show of support, instead of nasty attacks, helps to keep us focused on why we do what we do. It has nothing to do with the system, and everything to do with the people.

[Left coast liberal]

44. I guess I am one of those parents who wants to say Thanks

...and that I support you 100% and that I always vote "yes" for school levies and I always bring in supplies for the classroom and donate money to the PTSA/school and I always work with my kid to do their homework and arrive to school ready to learn.

I am sorry that more people don't get it. But, many of us do.

Thank you for you service.

[mopinko]

45. i don't think you should take it too personally. like the parent bashing threads

the emotional venting that you see has to do with peoples psyches, their childhoods, their own personal mental health. you tap into a deep reservoir of emotion when you tap into people's childhood memories, and mostly it comes venting out, sometimes without the person really knowing what it comes from. it has little or nothing to do with you, personally, or even teachers in general, and mostly has to do with the teacher who damaged those posters, or maybe even just amplified the damage that that person suffered at the hands of someone else, but that has been transfered to the memory of school and teachers. it is a reflection of their scars. mostly, i think you should feel sorry for your critics.

that said, i think that you are very wrong about arne duncan. as someone who lives in chicago, who has kids in the system, i thank him for his work, and think he was a great pick. he helped to turn around a system that was fueling white flight to the suburbs, and in that, helped to save my city from being hollowed out. i understand the reaction to things like charter schools, which can harm public education, but do not have to. i think that you really have to understand exactly what the forces working on public education in chicago have been, and what his responsibilities were.
many of the things that arne has been bashed for were things that he had to do to meet the requirements of nclb, which he had to do. there is no way the city could do without that money. but he did fight much of that, and sometimes won. and he had the guts to shut down schools that were dismal failures, for years, and years. that pissed off a lot of people. but after decades of dysfunction, with no consequences, i found it something that needed to be done.
i would be happy to discuss chicago schools, and what happened under arne. just please do not quote greg palast. his article, which has been posted endlessly, was just full of shit.

[Starry Messenger]

46. Error: you've already recommended that thread.

Ceramics teacher in a high school checking in here. I was saddened by some of the things I read here last month, so thank you for this thread. I don't have that much to add.

Sometimes I think people think they are pissed at teachers when they are pissed at the government. Teachers just happen to be some of the most visible members in government employ.

[Mithreal]

48. K&R from all the teachers in my family, we stand with you. nt

[BlooInBloo]

50. Teaching is intrinsically difficult enough, without the shitty environment currently in place.

[MasonJar]

51. Thank you for expressing so well the feelings many of us have. I

retired this year, but I know the adversity that confronts teachers every single day. It is so extreme that it drives many talented teachers away, which is a loss for students and for society. Obama is on the wrong track with merit pay. Almost every school I was ever in had a dedicated faculty, who were knowledgeable and who cared about their students. These teachers had to fight constant pressure to teach to the standardized tests (most recently sold by W's brother), while having little time for a true synthesis of knowledge that inspires and creates imaginative and productive lives. In addition, in 20+ years in many different schools in Kentucky and in California, I only had two really excellent principals (one of those a vice principal.) Principals play favorites; are they the ones who would decide merit pay? Would tests decide? What about parents, who often are blinded by their own prejudices and have not provided a background upon which to build success? Obama needs to lead this nation to appreciate the value of learning; then students will succeed. It is ironic that Obama keeps CEOs from Wall Street who knowingly (or who should have known) subverted the welfare of the nation and the world, and yet he dares to undermine the very fabric which keeps America from total decline: the public school system and the underpaid, dedicated teachers.

[YvonneCa]

199. Excellent post. I retired this year, too, after ...

... the 'pressure' took a toll on my health. Your questions are very good. I especially like this: "Obama needs to lead this nation to appreciate the value of learning; then students will succeed."

We need Obama to do one thing he does really well... TEACH.

[emmadoggy]

54. I thank you and support you. K & R.

:hug:

[kaygore]

57. My sentiments, too!

I believe that Obama has been seriously misled. I resent that a few bad teachers are considered the norm, yet a few bad...name the profession...are considered anomalies.

Nothing good is going to come of destroying the American public education system

[LiveLiberally]

59. My entire family are public school teachers....

9 individuals from kindergarten to middle school to college. I have spent the past 8 years working with teachers in grades 4-12 to develop innovative ways to bring project-based learning to small rural classrooms, many with special needs.

And so I can relate on so many levels with the your dedication, your realism and -- yes -- with your pessimism. But not with your sense of betrayal -- not yet anyway.

The fact is that the public school system must be transformed. The hierarchical relationship between administrators and teachers in K-12 education is often appallingly condescending and adversarial. Until public school teachers are recognized and compensated as highly qualified professionals, the burn-out rates will continue to escalate and the profession will continue to lose too many of its best and brightest. And students will suffer the consequences.

I don't claim to have the answers to these problems, but the status quo is NOT the answer -- either for teachers or our students. We now have a White House with lots of ideas which if implemented piecemeal -- like a merit system without a restructuring of teacher education and administration -- could indeed make an inadequate system worse. But it is also an Administration willing to listen, willing to innovate and -- I believe -- will to change course if necessary.

I foresee a rocky road ahead. Education reform has been driven for so long by ideology and antagonism that it will be difficult to truly move beyond either and address the root causes of poor achievement. And no, I don't see enough attention yet given to critical problems like pre-service teacher education (Colleges of Ed are second class citizens at best at most Universities.) But I do see an Administration determined to make a difference.

But I for one am willing to withhold judgment and participate in that effort.

[madfloridian]

64. So you want them to privatize them all at once?

I guess that might be best...just do it and get it over with. :shrug:

No more talking about the bad bad public schools as money is taken away from them and given to other kinds of schools.

Just do it. Right?

[LiveLiberally]

80. Perhaps you missed a crucial part of my post --

I -- and my family -- are proud to be PUBLIC school teachers. I fail to see anything in my post that suggested otherwise. I don't see privatization as reform, merely a cop-out.

[babylonsister]

73. Great post, thanks.

:thumbsup: Not being a teacher, I am not qualified to respond, but am glad to see your pov, too.

[LiveLiberally]

84. Thanks -- I am happy to see the passionate replies....

we'll need that passion if we want to achieve real change instead of just attributing blame. I do sympathize with the OP's POV, but I'm not willing at the get-go to give up on the first Administration in decades (I was a great supporter of Clinton but his priorities were elsewhere) to demonstrate that it has the capacity to understand the complexity of the problem and the commitment to address it. The fact is this Administration is TEACHABLE and as a teacher that alone gives me hope.

[babylonsister]

85. This admin is 'teachable'. Exactly. And your contention that they

are learning as they go also rings true. Isn't that what teachers are supposed to do? Again, thanks. The sandman calls, but I was/am happy to read your contribution.

[proud2BlibKansan]

139. Clinton did a lot for public education while he was president

To say that his priorities were elsewhere and assume he didn't help our schools is wrong.

Every school in the country was wired for the Internet because of Clinton. That alone is a tremendous accomplishment.

Clinton also had a great Sec of Ed. Compared to the businessman Obama has appointed, Richard Riley was a genius.

[LiveLiberally]

143. My intent was not to criticize Clinton...

and in fact I think his heart (and appointees) had the right philosophy and principles to reform public education. Unfortunately, congressional politics and yes, other pressing priorities limited their ability to enact transformative reforms. And that is what we need now.

Although not universal, I agree that greatly expanded access to the internet was a great achievement and lasting legacy of the Clinton Administration.

[proud2BlibKansan]

147. 98% of schools were wired for the Internet

That's pretty universal.

[LiveLiberally]

162. Let's not quibble....

99% according to a 2001 survey (http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2002/internet/3.asp) but the key issue -- as the survey points out is ACCESS. I have worked with dozens of small rural districts in the past decade that only gained instructional access (internet access in the classroom) in the past few years. And unfortunately, access is still limited in terms of the ability of teachers to assign extensive online research OR to engage students in group projects that require intensive computer usage. Teachers I work with tell me repeatedly that it is not enough to have ONE computer lab for the entire school, but that is all most rural districts can afford.

It was still a great achievement.

[LWolf]

125. Transformed?

Yes. To start with, we need to move away from the factory model, and we need to do away with the "standards and accountability" movement.

What we are being offered is not a positive "transformation." It's more efforts to privatize.

Which is not a positive "transformation."

I'm not even sure what "status quo" you refer to; the current status quo, which is a system decimated by the authoritarian NCLB, or the previous status quo NCLB was purported, falsely, to be the solution to.

I've spent 26 years in public education, worked in two states, taught K-8th grades, worked in large districts and small, rural and not, and with teachers across the nation. I've rarely met teachers who wanted to maintain the "status quo." And when I did, it was usually because they were tired; burned out by the overcrowding, understaffing, lack of support, and constant mandates for "change" from the top that change every few years, without ever making any long-term differences.

Transformational change that makes long term positive differences will start at the bottom, with educators and the families they serve, not at the top, with politicians making political points and furthering political agendas.

It WON'T happen by making educators "the enemy."

[LiveLiberally]

129. You and I are on the same page

I don't disagree with anything you've said. Like you, I've seen it. I've watched some of the best school districts in the country (CA) become some of the worst in a few decades due to overcrowding, understaffing, and a pervasive willingness to treat public schools like emergency rooms in county generals -- institutions for those who can't afford to go anywhere else. Privatization is no more the answer than privatized medicare or social security. Privatization -- as I said elsewhere -- is a cop-out, a confession that we lack the commitment as a people to ensure that excellent education is a right not a privilege.

If I believed that this Administration viewed privatization as the only solution, I would also feel betrayed. But I don't. I think they're floundering at the moment, confounded by the vastness of the problem that will require different solutions depending upon a host of factors -- socio-economic, ethnic/racial diversity, state funding (or lack thereof) etc... The fact is our school districts have ALWAYS been remarkably diverse and this can be a strength if it doesn't perpetuate inequality and unequal access. NCLB has tainted (and rightfully so) national education initiatives in the public mind & even the most progressive administration would have difficulty imposing a centralized solution. Which means that any national initiative must be flexible enough to respond to local needs & proposed reforms -- including some that I oppose -- as long as they don't violate core educational principles.

The most important of which is the recognition that K-12 teachers are highly trained professionals who must be granted the support, pedagogical autonomy, administrative authority, and, yes, responsibility to create learning environments that promote academic success. Teachers are not miracle workers, but given adequate support, training, and authority, they change lives. I think we agree on this; it's why we do what we do.

[LWolf]

181. "Emergency rooms in county hospitals."

You NAILED that one.

Which brings me full circle. I also support universal, single-payer, not-for-profit health care. I think health care is a right, and I don't think access to care, or the quality of that care, should be segregated by ability to pay.

Neither do I think we ought to be setting up "tiers" of public schools, with access to schools that are allowed more flexibility and creativity limited to a few, and a carefully sorted and approved few at that, and the rest relegated to the emergency room.

I want EVERY school to have the same flexibility and options.

[unkachuck]

65. K&R....n/t

[G_j]

71. thank you, LWolf, K&R

thank you for giving voice to this. I hope many will read and kick this.

[livefreest]

72. Maybe i need more information but

is it not a good thing for you and your profession if you're provided with improved parameters in your work, in terms of financing, accompanying requirements of accountability? isn't Obama budgeting enough to improve public education education and improve your work environment? or what's the problem. Please tell me more. especially about Arne Duncan. what has he done, any links?

on an other note, don't you think you're slightly melodramatic?

[madfloridian]

79. Yes, you really do need more information.

And you just insulted a teacher.

[livefreest]

86. well i don't see you providing any information

and LWolf can tell me if she is insulted. or any other teacher btw

[madfloridian]

88. Yes, I provided two long posts below.

As I say it is a done deal, sadly. Arne Duncan is going to use the stimulus money for more testing...for a database for testing teachers by testing kids. Only more of what they have been doing.

He wants the money to go for other things than public schools.

I posted below, be my guest.

[madfloridian]

74. More about charter schools. Walmart single biggest investor.

Walmart one of the biggest supporters of charter schools.

"A charter school is any school that is funded publicly but governed by institutions outside the public school system. A company, a non-governmental organization, a university, or any group of people who write a charter can become autonomous from a public school board and control the budget, curriculum, and select the group of students in a school. They receive public money, and, in exchange, they set out quantifiable results that they will achieve. One quarter of charter schools are run by for-profit operators (called EMOs, Educational Management Organizations), but most are run by nonprofit entities (usually grouped under CMOs, Charter Management Organizations.)"

"The Walton Family Foundation of Wal-Mart is the single biggest investor in charter schools in the United States, giving $50 million a year to support them.21 The Waltons specialize in giving money to opponents of public education. “Empowering parents to choose among competing schools,” said John Walton, son of Wal-Mart’s founder, “will catalyze improvement across the entire K–12 education system.”22 According to a National Committee for Responsive Philanthropy (NCRP) report, “Some critics argue that it is the beginning of the ‘Wal-Martization’ of education, and a move to for-profit schooling, from which the family could potentially financially benefit. John Walton owned 240,000 shares of Tesseract Group Inc. (formerly known as Education Alternatives Inc.), which is a for-profit company that develops/manages charter and private schools as well as public schools.”23 Wal-Mart is a notorious union-busting firm, famous for keeping its health-care costs down by discouraging unhealthy people from working at its stores, paying extremely low wages with poor benefits, and violating child labor laws. The company has reportedly looted more than $1 billion in economic development subsidies from state and local governments.24 Its so-called philanthropy seems also to be geared to the looting of public treasuries."

http://www.edweek.org/rc/issues/charter-schools/

"Although they serve only a tiny fraction of the nation’s public school students, charter schools have seized a prominent role in education today. They are at the center of a growing movement to challenge traditional notions of what public education means.

Charter schools are by definition independent public schools. Although funded with taxpayer dollars, they operate free from many of the laws and regulations that govern traditional public schools. In exchange for that freedom, they are bound to the terms of a contract or "charter" that lays out a school’s mission, academic goals, and accountability procedures. State laws set the parameters for charter contracts, which are overseen by a designated charter school authorizer—often the local school district or related agency.

Although they serve only a tiny fraction of the nation’s public school students, charter schools have seized a prominent role in education today. They are at the center of a growing movement to challenge traditional notions of what public education means.

Charter schools are by definition independent public schools. Although funded with taxpayer dollars, they operate free from many of the laws and regulations that govern traditional public schools. In exchange for that freedom, they are bound to the terms of a contract or "charter" that lays out a school’s mission, academic goals, and accountability procedures. State laws set the parameters for charter contracts, which are overseen by a designated charter school authorizer—often the local school district or related agency.

With their relative autonomy, charter schools are seen as a way to provide greater educational choice and innovation within the public school system. Their founders are often teachers, parents, or activists who feel restricted by traditional public schools. In addition, many charters are run by for-profit companies, forming a key component of the privatization movement in education."

"many are run by for-profit companies"

More:

http://www.charterschoolsusa.com/

"Charter schools are part of a sweeping educational reform that offers alternatives for parents and students and places the highest priority on providing a better education. Charter schools are funded much like a public school, but each charter school is governed privately. Unlike traditional public schools, every charter school must demonstrate success, or it will lose its charter. Charter schools can be managed by municipalities, private companies or individuals."

[madfloridian]

76. Charter school are in effect the deregulation of public schools.

The deregulation of public schools

"Deregulation

The second main idea behind charters is that state directives are strangling public school innovations. That's why charters are exempted from many regulations restricting the operations of traditional public schools. The trouble is that deregulation creates opportunities for mountebanks to pilfer the public purse, abuse children, and the like. As a matter of fact, to the extent that charter operators have freedom of action, the confidence tricksters and bunko artists among them find opportunities for fraud and misuse of public funds. What is more, the politicians (and/or their relatives) who push charters often end up feeding at the charter school trough themselves."

http://www.newfoundations.com/Clabaugh/CuttingEdge/Charters.html

Charter schools are hardly the only enterprise to give deregulation a bad name. At this writing the U.S. economy may be headed for its worst crises since the Great Depression. Many commentators cite the 1999 Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, a 1999 banking deregulation bill, as the primary cause. The act, signed by President Clinton by the way, repealed Depression-era regulations and encouraged the creation of sub-prime mortgages, including no-money-down, interest-only loans to individuals with poor credit histories. Those mortgages were subsequently packaged and sold as securities. The Bush administration, blinded by the philosophy that market forces provide all the regulation necessary, ignored numerous warnings of an impending collapse. Thus did deregulation produce the conditions that triggered an economic train wreck, Deregulation similarly precipitated the savings and loan crises of the 1980s and '90s. In that case a new federal law permitted S&Ls to depart from their original mission of receiving savings and providing mortgages and venture into commercial loans and issuing credit cards instead. S&Ls soon were lending money to shaky ventures they were ill equipped to assess. Eventually more than sixteen hundred banks either closed or required federal assistance at a cost to federal taxpayers of $124.6 billion.

What's the common element in both of these financial debacles? Deregulation. What is at the heart of the charter school movement? Deregulation.

Conclusion

Given President-elect Obama's support for charter schooling, the movement may multiply during his administration. If so, expect still more fraud and scandal, because whatever their merits, charters present as big an opportunity for swindlers and charlatans as does televangelism."

[SpiderMom]

81. So by your logic...

we should keep NCLB, because after all that is regulation. To get rid of it would be deregulation. Not all regulations are good. And last time I checked, schools are not banking systems.

[madfloridian]

83. They are going to keep NCLB.

It doesn't matter what I think.

It's a done deal.

Let's see what happens. Walmart has sunk billions into this cause. The evangelical community has been a powerful anti public school force as well.

We are going to have charter schools and more testing because Duncan wants it.

We will have to see how it all turns out.

[livefreest]

90. No it's not a done deal. please write, call the white house, call

your representatives in congress, call Arne Duncan's office's. what are the teachers' unions doing all over america?

But going back to your previous long post. Do you mean that you see these charter schools as a process to elbow out the government from education which will result in an inferior education once it's a for-profit-education?

[madfloridian]

91. Yes I do see that.

Otherwise they would fund the public schools instead of giving it to other schools.

I have called and written.

[livefreest]

92. good. and usually mad floridians don't give up. right?

[Dinger]

77. What Can I Say LWolf

You're the best!

Earlier this school year I had a student in my third grade class come to and tell me that her father had committed suicide. She was reading at the eighth grade level, and her math was almost as advanced. She came to school two days after the funeral, and took the test. The test results barely registered, they were so low. What did I do wrong?

Also, I had a student come to my class at the start of the year. His family was homeless due to a fire that burned their house down two weeks before school started. They came into school to register and asked if there was anyone there who could help them, They had nothing. The kids were wearing dirty pajamas, with old shoes, and no socks. No relatives in the areas. Thankfully, the wife of a colleague of mine works at a women's shelter. To make a long story short, she was able to arrange for all 5 kids to get plenty of clothes, toiletries, etc. Anyway, that child barely registered either when the class was tested in October. What did I do wrong?

[LWolf]

118. Thank you, Dinger,

for loving your students and "getting" it. Not that I didn't think you did. ;)

I, too, have a student whose house burned down this year. For the 2nd time in 2 years. Coincidence?

One of my homeless students, whose mother is an addict, experienced the suicide of mom's boyfriend this year. I'm just glad when she shows up. We do our best to provide her with a safe, nurturing few hours a day, when she is here. She bombed the state test, even though she is bright and capable. She looked me in the eye and said, "I've got more important things on my mind. This is a waste of my time."

[bertman]

82. Thank you for an exceptional post, LWolf, and thank you for your dedicated service to

the children.

First, let me say that I have no idea how to solve this awful problem. I have read thread after thread about this merit pay/public vs. private schools/old methods vs. new methods, and I have heard wisdom and good ideas from both sides. So, I'm still trying to form an opinion. Thank you to all who have given their experiences for us to learn from.

Another poster from N.C. must have grown up around the same time I did. And while I agree with the statements about the quality of the education and the commitment of our Gov. Sanford to education, I noted a comment that struck me as only partially accurate. The comment was, and I paraphrase, that many parents took their children out of public schools because they feared desegregation. My experience was that most of the parents who took their children out of public schools did not "fear" desegregation but rather were fearful that the atmosphere in the classroom following desegregation would prevent their children from getting a good education.

After our schools were integrated, many of the public schools in N.C. experienced riots by students that can only be described as race riots. This was due to all of the usual suspects: racist kids, teenage aggression, racist parents, misunderstandings, deliberate race-baiting, etc. etc. During this period of extreme tension and anger among whites and blacks--students and parents and teachers--there was a tremendous amount of disruption in the classrooms. Imagine how difficult it is to focus on your studies while there is a simmering, and often open, anger pervading every activity.

This was a horrible situation that arose out of our government trying to do the right thing--which I firmly believe it was. Nonetheless, violence and a constant state of fear and unease permeated many of our schools. Teachers who tried to discipline disruptive students were accused of being racist--by both sides. School administrators were constantly under verbal and sometimes physical assault for trying to keep order in the classroom, in the halls, and on the school grounds.

For white parents who had been expecting their children to get a solid education this was a major blow. For black parents who were now hoping for their children to get a good education this was a major blow. When these folks tried to reach common ground at PTA meetings there was very little common ground being reached. Shouting matches, threats, and fights were not uncommon.

Many of the white parents had the financial resources to change things for the better. They joined forces with other like-minded white parents and formed private schools, mostly based around church affiliation or "christian" schools. Many of the teachers who were feeling threatened and intimidated by the events of their daily teaching lives decided to teach at private schools. Thus began what is now known as white flight.

I've had the good fortune in my life to have lived with two women (at different times, I might add) who were teacher's aides in public schools. Disclaimer: I am white and so are they. Both of these women left their jobs as teacher's aides because of the sorry state of discipline in the schools in which they were employed. They were appalled at what passed for order in the classroom. Both of them would tell me stories about things students did in the schools that I could not believe were allowed to happen. Both of these women attributed this disruptive behavior to the schools' administrators and principals who were afraid of offending parental "interest groups".

What's ironic here is that the school system that these women worked in is one of the best in the state. The teachers and administrators get accolades from parents and teaching organizations alike. It's obvious that these teachers are working hard and helping their students despite some serious problems that are allowed to happen in their work environment.

The important point here, at least from my perspective, is the lack of order in the classrooms. When I was in school in the 50's and 60's we were allowed to clown around and cut up a little bit, but when the teacher said it was time to buckle down and study or listen or read, well that's what we did. Those who did not follow the teacher's rules were dealt with and usually became better-behaved students. Later, in junior high and high school, the misbehavors would self-select for early exit into a life as an hourly worker in the community. The rest of us got diplomas, along with a very solid education.

Now, I have a niece who has been teaching for four or five years. She teaches second grade. She loves her teaching and her kids, but this year she has decided to do something else. She has been beaten down by trying to control seven and eight year-olds who are not controllable. She tells me that she has tried everything she can to get the disrupters to settle down, but she has been unsuccessful. She has gone to her principal to no avail. Folks, this is very hard for me to understand, so please try to help me grasp what has happened. Is this the norm in our public schools now? I know people whose children are in private schools who never have this type of problem.

There is more than one reason that people want changes in schools. It seems that the teachers are caught in the middle here.

Since I had not heard this particular issue alluded to in any posts, I thought it might be worth bringing up.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

87. Kudos to you, LWolf

I retired in 2007 after 20-some odd years in 3 school districts in the L.A. area. Just couldn't take it any more. I can relate to your nightmares - mine usually revolved around administrators, most of whom wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes in my special ed classrooms.

But here's the good part: I've run into quite a few of my students over the years working in restaurants or retail stores or what have you. They also give me a big grin, say hi and ask if I remember them. Sometimes, truth be told, I absolutely do not recognize them, but am always touched by their greeting. Another thing that's happened to me - I remember many more of the good days now that I've been away awhile.

I salute you!

[1]

94. i don't get it. everybody works within the parameters they are given to work in....

you want a fucking medal for what everybody else does too on a daily basis?

are you saying you work is more important than mine?

really?

[NJCher]

96. say what?

I don't think you understand the post. The OP is motivated by concern over a public policy issue. Now that someone has explained that to you, go back over the original post and see if you can understand where she is coming from.

Also, teachers don't do what everyone else does on a daily basis. They do way, way more. They pay for materials that are needed in the classroom out of their own (usually paltry) pay. That is why the IRS even allows a deduction for it. As you can see from the various posts above, they care for their students off-hours and do what they can to help with the cruelties and inequities of life.

Your post is stunningly cold. What are you even doing at this site?


Cher

[1]

103. excuse me?

"teachers don't do what everyone else does on a daily basis. They do way, way more."

wtf?

now do we hold teachers up there with firefighters and police officers about how much way, way more, they do than me on a daily basis?

on what do you base that? do you know what i do? to dismiss me so? how fucking dare you!

you say that my post "is stunningly cold."

i say, your post is stunningly ignorant.

madon...

[NJCher]

130. OK, now I understand

You've never experienced a teacher. In fact, I'm surprised you can even write. Well, amend that: you can string some words together but whether you can make a cogent argument is debatable.

You certainly don't know how to capitalize and you're claiming that I'm ignorant?


Cher

[closeupready]

159. Wow. Persecution complex much? The threadstarter wasn't talking about you.

not everything is about you. You could have left your post in the garbage heap as far as most of us here are concerned.

[Starry Messenger]

101. No one can measure up to you farmboy.

:D

[1]

104. and yet you don't see me posting my "'thankless/breathless' please give me kudos" shit, do you?

"i'm a teacher. worship me..."

[Starry Messenger]

145. I see what you do post.

:shrug:

[LWolf]

123. I don't know if my work is "more important" than yours.

I have no idea what you do for a living.

I tend not to rank things like that, anyway.

I know that what I do is vital, and I know it is under-appreciated by too many. I know that what I do is under attack by political forces with unfriendly agendas.

I don't know what kind of conditions you face in what you do.

This thread is about the ubiquitous denigration of my profession, of what I do, by the general public; about people who listen to propaganda instead of evaluating the reality; about the betrayal of a solidly Democratic voting bloc by elected Democrats.

It's not about "what you do."

[proud2BlibKansan]

149. Yes my work is more important than yours

[JCMach1]

102. You are right, the war on teachers and students continues...

Wake me up when politicians have clue about learning...

[HaloHere]

105. ditto

[vssmith]

107. Why dont they get it?

It isn't that they don't get it, it's that they don't care. The people that have the power in this country to really make schools better send their kids to private schools--even the Obamas.

I am a retired public school teacher.

[barbtries]

109. i'm on the side of the teachers

the most underpaid, underappreciated, and IMPORTANT profession in humanity.

i haven't read up enough on this issue and would love to hear why this was a stab in the back. off the top of my head if they haven't already gotten rid of NCLB it stinks.

[LWolf]

124. I will pull together some stuff

for you tonight; I need to head off to school right now. ;)

If you want to investigate now:

Start with the intent to continue high stakes testing through NCLB. Add charter schools, which are the trojan horses of the privatizers. Then add Arne Duncan, the new Secretary of Education, and the "strings" attached to the stimulus money for education, which is not an economic stimulus at all.

[yellowwood]

112. I Am a Public School Teacher, Retired

Yes,I support public schools for many of the reasons stated above. And I understand that this thread is about new proposals from Arne Jacobson, But--I can certainly see that our whole education system (this would not exclude private schools) needs improvement.
Bad teachers? Let me count the ways:
Teachers who use the same lesson plans year after year until their curriculum plans turn yellow
Teachers who fight the twelve month school year, lest they lose their vacations.
A teacher who seated his students according to their performance.
Teachers who make fun of certain students in the teachers' lounge or in the classroom
Teachers who use ridicule as a motivator
Teachers who have their students correct all of their work in class so that the teachers won't have homework to take home
Teachers who show videos on a regular basis, regardless of their relevance
Teachers who get off on discussions of "sports" to use time.
A teacher who made Fridays into "game day" where students could bring in their games to play
Teacher who take their better students out of study hall to grade other students' homework
Teachers who beat the students out the door after the school day
I don't like the combining the jobs of "teacher" and "coach" Students who are excused from classes for sports events
And, yes, the administrators who let these things happen.
Administrators who dump all of the low-performing students into a "low" class and only expect the teacher to keep the lid on.
Yes, smaller classes are important.
I think that the pay isn't bad. It's a "career," not a "job." It's hard work, but we chose it.

I don't know all the answers as to how to change the system, but there have to be changes.

[LWolf]

120. The system has needed improvement for a long time.

I'm not against improvement. As a matter of fact, I'll be the first one leaping ahead, given the opportunity to do so. I've been an advocate of change my entire career, as my admins will attest to. ;)

I'm against destructive policies and mandates that hurt the system, and students, in the name of "improvement." I want authentic, POSITIVE change, not Orwellian political manipulation.

[wolfgangmo]

138. Excellent observations.

I am a former teacher. I now own and run a medical clinic.

Let me tell you that every problem you mentioned about teachers comes down to bad administration. A good administrator would do something about all of those things.

I was forced out of teaching by a bad administrator. And I was an award winning teacher. If I can be forced out then surely mediocre teacher can be shaped up. At my clinic I make sure that the staff remains patient centric. I MAKE SURE because it is my job.

It would be nice if more principals did the same.

[4_TN_TITANS]

115. married to an NEA card-carrying teacher for 17 years

I understand what you feel. We also have two daughters that are magnificent kids, due mostly to the quality of teachers that they have had. My children wake up wanting to go to school.

[CaptJasHook]

119. Word. n/t

[raccoon]

126. K&R. Great post.

I have great admiration for teachers like you.

[Skidmore]

128. I'm very supportive of teachers. However, I do want something

built into the system to account for people like my son's first grade teacher, who decided that he was incapable of learning because English was his second language--he did speak English but had areas of incompetency in vocabulary because we had just moved back to the States. She simply chose not to teach him and the school principal kept assuring me that she was a great teacher and would not move him. We were locked into that district. I worked with him and hired a tutor for him. He still started out in school here further behind than was necessary due to this person whom I also believe held prejudices against children who were not native born. He was a smart boy who grew into an extremely intelligent man and is an engineer commanding a top salary in his field. Thank goodness, we had other great teachers who invested in helping him learn, teachers I was more than delighted to work with and do my part in the following years.

You need to have some way to address some of the dead wood in the profession as well. BTW, I descend from a long line of teachers.

[azlatina]

131. Teachers are the unsung heros...

When my son was a freshman in high school, he was accepted into the International Baccalaureate Magnet program - very sharp kid! Over the first few months, he was coming home complaining about one of his teachers always picking on him. He started saying he did not want to go to her class anymore and wanted to change teachers. On the marquee outside the school, she was listed as Teacher of the Year and I was having a hard time reconciling that with what I was hearing from my son. I decided to make an appointment with her to discuss what was going on in the class. During our meeting, I found the teacher very forth coming and proud of her profession. She explained that my son was a leader in the class and all the other students always followed what he did. There were no issues with his academics just his clowning around in class and disruptions. She felt that my son was being disrespectful towards her and felt he could do better. My son's body language throughout this discussion was kind of cocky. My response to her was that I appreciated all her hard work and what she had to endure throughout the day from the many students in her classes. I know my son and am aware that he can be smart alecky and disruptive at times. I let her know that she had my full support and that my son's behavior will no longer be an issue in her class. I then directed my son to apologize to her. The teacher's body language when we first walked in was defensive but after my response she relaxed and was open to discuss solutions to address the issues. My son's attitude went from cocky to humble and contrite. After that meeting, my son and that teacher became very close and their class was very successful. At the end of the year, she let me know that my son led the class into model behavior and a respectful attitude towards her. Her assessment of my son being a leader and her guidance led my son to become class president for his three years in school - he was elected Student Body President but he decided to graduate a year early.

I think parents need to be supportive of teachers and find out more when their kids complain prior to jumping and attacking a teacher.

To all the teachers out there, you are under appreciated and under paid. We owe you all a debt of gratitude and support...

[proud2BlibKansan]

170. Thank you for being a terrific parent

and remaining open minded enough to hear the teacher's side. If all parents were like you our jobs would be so much easier.

Truth is that most kids will try to do what your son did at least once. A good parent like you will meet with the teacher and confront the issue. Unfortunately we have too many parents who are either too busy or feel too guilty so they side with their children and don't get all the facts as you did. And the process is so important for kids to see as their parents work through the problem. Even if the child is wrong they learn from the experience, as your son undoubtedly did.

I continue to be amazed by how many parents take everything their kids say as 100% true. I had a mother one time who called the school to complain that her child was the only one in my class who wasn't on medication. The truth was that none of my students were on meds. This little girl was in trouble for fighting and she decided to tell her mom that I didn't have time to deal with her problems (since I had so many problem kids on meds in the class) so she had to beat up the kid who was bothering her. And her mother believed her.

When my son was in 3rd grade he spent the first month of school complaining about his teacher nearly every day. She gave too much homework, she was mean, she never smiled, she liked the girls better, she took his recess away unfairly. I finally decided to set up a meeting with her and took my son along. Turns out his best friend was in the other 3rd grade class and my son wanted to be in that class. So he decided he would keep complaining until I called the principal and moved him. It took some talking but the teacher and I finally got him to admit what was going on. Of course we didn't move him and I let him know that this is how I would solve every problem at school. He, the teacher and his dad and I were a team. He got the message and rarely complained after that. I also knew when he did complain that there probably was a problem we needed to address.

I could tell a million stories. So I really appreciate when parents like you are willing to take the time to solve the problem with the teacher.

[redqueen]

133. I don't know if we can stop it... but can we make them non-profit?

Obviously these things serve a need... would it be enough change if we could just ensure that only non-profit charter schools were allowed?

[DrZeeLit]

136. Bravo! Twenty eight years for me. I am proud of you and our service, no matter what.

I, too, find it difficult to open some threads and see the bashing of teachers.
I used to attempt to educate those who tear down public schools and teachers -- but then I sort of gave up.

Many people have had surgeries -- like tonsillectomies -- but don't tell the doctor how to do his or her job.
Most people have gone to school, so that seems to make them experts about how teachers and school should work.

In studying "change theory," the last institutions to change are education and religion -- both seem to be foundations of people's lives.
But look around. It's not 1930 any more.
Teachers, hence schools and students, need the support and technology and advances that have happened in fields like medicine -- in order to provide quality learning environments which actually allow for learning.
This rote, formulaic, test/accountability nonsense is so 1900's.
Thinking that students are widgets to roll off an assembly line is ridiculous.

AND... you've said it all... we who love this profession and know it is our calling in life to help others through education, will continue...no matter what.

[Chorophyll]

141. You will never, ever, take any bashing from me.

Only this: :applause:

And my gratitude.

[LWolf]

183. Thank you. nt

[shifting_sands]

142. I grew up in a teaching family

and I saw for decades people coming into school leadership positions, such as an overwhelming amt of Superintendents and Asst. Superintendents with absolutely no teaching experience bringing their "think" tank changes in curriculum and they had no idea what they were doing but millions were spent to change the curriculum in the public schools and send teachers to classes to explain their thinking and it could not be explained. I went through the "new math" the "new grammar" the "new everything" several times over and at the same time saw the level of education go down with my own children. Education, thanks to school administrations, has been like the Keystone Kops for decades. Arne Duncan isn't any different than those decades of incompetent leadership and Obama doesn't seem to know anymore about education of their children than millions of parents over the past 40 years. The private schools didn't seem to be subject to the abuse public schools were going through but I can name countless private schools that failed.

The exhortation from politicians "that children are our most precious resource" is a joke, we don't believe that for a minute, children are throw aways in this society. Not all parents can home-school, not all parents have the time or energy to help with homework or be PTA leaders. President Obama's and Arne Duncan's ideas are just another stab at some think tank idea. They don't have any new ideas, since the 1960's teachers have had to spend useless time on useless paperwork to satisfy the government. This from a government who cannot regulate the banking industry, but they can regulate education, and they do so badly. The concept of "let teachers teach" seems to be over their heads, the concept of give teachers new ideas around teaching, not constant new curriculums doesn't seem to register as a good idea.

So now we have a new Sec. of Education and a new administration with another idea without even finding out what was wrong with the last 40 years of ideas. It's amazing how they have screwed the whole thing up without ever asking how our education system fell from number 1 in the world to number 47

[JamesJ]

144. Explain please...

Can you help me out, educate me, if you will. I sense your bitterness and I'm not saying it's not well earned but can you explain what Obama, et. al. are doing to betray you?

I'm hearing one side of the argument, theirs, and I'm interested in hearing yours as well.

[LWolf]

185. Of course.

First of all, the appointment of Duncan, who, in the words of one Chicago teacher and editor, is a "privatizer, union-buster, and corporate stooge." You can find that quote on the ARN list, if you are interested in it; it's not on a website, so you would have to search the email archives.

Second, the determination to move forward with merit pay, which, among other things, sets teachers up, not as partners bettering the education of all, but as competitors. I don't see that as helpful, to say the least. It also sets the system up to add a layer of corruption in the formation of class rosters. Since we know that the greatest predictor of test scores is parent SES, teachers who speak up, speak out, and resist bad, destructive policy are rewarded with classrooms full of students who are already far behind, while the "yes" people get the classrooms of students who are ahead...think that won't happen? It already does, in some schools. Add merit pay to the mix and the practice will increase exponentially.

Third, the focus on charter schools. Not all charter schools are bad; some are great. Regardless, they are also a tool in the efforts to privatize education. They set up two "tiers" of public education, and they encourage the public to support privatization.

Then there's the testing craze. It's not going away. It will shift focus a little, but scores will still be used to judge teachers, rather than to measure student progress, and teachers will still be held accountable for those scores without having any control over some of the most influential factors. That's corrupt, in my professional and personal opinion.

Finally, there's the education portion of the "stimulus" package. It's not about stimulating the economy. It's not about supporting schools whose budgets have been cut so drastically at the state level that they are closing early this year, and gutting programs and staff next year. It's about getting schools to "compete" for funds by doing things that Arne Duncan approves of.

Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5399277

[antimatter98]

146. I taught college level for 5 yrs. Accused of 'being too nice' to students.

Because I:
-held review sessions.
-answered their questions via email on weekends.
-gave 'practice' quizzes each week as warm ups to the 'tests.'
-allowed poor lab scores to be retried for those who wanted to improve--the retry was harder than the initial lab.
-set up an honors side course for the best students to get honors credit.

Student surveys said: hard teacher but fair, learned a lot, he encouraged me to go beyond what I thought I could do.

But, the correct way to teach college is: don't care about the kids (undergrads), toss the kitchen sink at them and
subscribe to the Darwinian law of survival. I did it all wrong. But I could not do it their way, so I left.

[ItNerd4life]

153. How come Amercians want healthcare like Europe, but not Education?

The current educational system in America is broken. Just as healthcare is broken, war on drugs is broken, war on poverty is broken.

I voted for Obama for change and to fix these systems.
Europeans education is much better than ours, so he wants to incorporate some of their ideas.
I think it's a great idea.

He's not saying teachers are bad, he's saying the system is broken and it allows for too many failures.

[proud2BlibKansan]

171. I don't want our schools like Europe

Many European countries track their kids. They decide as young as kindergarten which kids will go to college and which will not. By the time they are in high school, some are in college prep (academic) programs and some are in vocational programs. So when they test their kids they test the college bound while we test ALL. Therefore it isn't fair to compare the test scores of our kids to the European countries. And that is where the meme that the schools are better in Europe comes from.

Japanese schools are also often praised. But Japan has a much more regimented culture than we do and they also have a very high suicide rate among kids. I would rather our kids be happy and well-adjusted.

Yes we have a system that needs some help. But it is not broken. One way to improve our schools would be to stop assuming they are bad. Another way would be to fund education appropriately, an answer that we have yet to try.

[LWolf]

204. Hey, Proud

Thanks for pointing out that difference between our system and the rest of europe (and other places) that so many don't understand.

We don't track students. We allow students to step into the education of their choice at ANY point in their lives.

That's why we sometimes appear to be "behind" others; because their measures don't measure ALL their students.

Our system is more flexible in that students have more choice, longer. That's a GOOD thing.

Still, I sometimes wonder about the current "prepare them all for college" mantra. We need people in trades. Not everyone needs to attend college, although I think everyone needs some sort of post-high school education.

I'd like our system to do a superb job, K-12, of teaching students to think, to research, teaching them those life-long learning habits, as well as to be literate and numerate. But after?

We need more trade schools. We need skilled plumbers, electricians, mechanics, etc.; in my area they make more money than I do, despite their lack of college and my years and degrees. I'd like our system to recognize that, and to add trade schools into the post-high school choices.

Thanks for your support on this whole thread, friend.
:hi:

[Patchuli]

155. I appreciate you, LWolf!

I am an Attendance Secretary/Library Tech for a high school and I am here to say that teachers who are dedicated like you are what keep our students going! You sacrifice, you spend your own money, give your free time all in the name of helping those students succeed! You are the true unsung American heroes!

I just have one complaint: Teachers who don't take attendance!!! LOL!!! Why don't some teachers feel it's necessary? I'll never understand that! That makes my job hard!!

BTW, I occasionally feel like Mr. Atlas there myself! We have 2200 students and just one and one three quarters time Attendance secretaries.

[LWolf]

186. I feel your pain.

Can you say "understaffed?"

I admit that, a few times a year, I get a call from the office reminding me about attendance. :blush:

Usually on one of those mornings that our normal morning routine is invaded by something else, lol.

It only takes me about 30 seconds once I'm logged in, and I log in before the kids show up, so there is really no excuse.

We currently have 2 full time office staff (and a part time nurse) for our approximately 500 kids. They are incredible people, and I don't know where we'd be without them.

Or the rest of our classified staff.

I was classified for 10 years before I finished my degree etc. and got my teaching license. I know that you make it possible for us to do our jobs.

:hi:

[Patchuli]

198. It's getting so that every spring, it's tulips, lilies

birds nesting and PINK SLIPS for teaching and classified staff. This year they are finally going to get smart we hope and cut our programs back. Do we (the high school) really need to teach German 4, Chinese 6, etc? Baroque music??? Can you believe that $hit? They are trying to force furloughs and pay cuts on us all to "save jobs" but once we concede something to them, we will never get it back! The teachers have said no way and my union will go with the teachers. Maybe we don't really need 4 superintendents at our district, folks? That just got benefit upgrades and one super got a $25,000 raise. The D.O. staff all got the insurance upgrades. When you are pink-slipping on-site folks, it's in pretty poor taste to get a raise, ya think? jeesh...

[LWolf]

203. We cut the school year by

1 student and 3 teacher days, plus another pay cut to take an extra percentage of our pay to finish out this school year. All that to avoid pink slips THIS year.

Our admins took a 3 year pay freeze; our pay cut is only for the rest of this year, and goes back to normal next year.

At least for now. We WILL be cutting staff and programs for next year. We don't know where the cuts will be made, or how deep, yet. We're waiting for news from the state.

It doesn't look good, though. We know that they are closing the alternative high school and sending them back to the main campus. We know that they are closing a small alternative middle school, and dispersing them back to the 2 main campuses. We know that they will cut middle school sports programs, and that field trips will be off the table for next year. High school sports programs are still on the table; this is a big deal in this relatively rural area, where sports are more valued by the community than reading. Before and after school tutoring and homework help programs are cut.

What we are really waiting for are the staff cuts. Counselors. Teacher's assistants. I've never had a teacher's assistant, in 26 years, but they are vital for our special ed program, and our 1st - 3rd grade teachers have them. Librarians. Music teachers. PE teachers.

For us, we hope that retirements and moves will absorb certified teaching staff, but know that some teachers in their first or second year may not be back. Class sizes will rise.

Finally, the district has left cutting the number of school days on the table for next year, as well. That is, of course, a pay cut for us. It's also damned hard on students, since we have one of the shortest instructional years in the nation already. If it looks like they need to cut too many days, we know that a pay cut for us will be on the table, as well. Not that we intend to go along with THAT. We've already taken a cut; for me, it works out to enough to pay my entire winter heating bill next year plus a few tons of hay for my horses. I'm already scrambling to cover the hay and heating bills, since I buy hay and feed in bulk during the summer to cover the year; month-to-month is significantly more expensive.

We're just waiting to hear the full extent of the damage.

[JDPriestly]

160. When our "public servants" earn enough from their "service" to

send their children to private schools while we send ours to public schools and when they set rules for our public schools that don't apply in the private schools of their children, something is wrong.

Private schools do not have accountability, yet they are the schools of choice of people like Obama and Clinton and the schools that are favored by people like Bush.

There is something wrong here.

[walldude]

168. No bashing here... What you described is the relationship

my wife and I have with our children's teachers. Well, it's gotten a bit less for the ones that have gone on to high school but we are still in contact with their elementary school teachers. They check in all the time to see how our kids are doing. They work long hours for crappy pay, they spend their own money to supplement their classrooms, they go above and beyond, then they get to watch politicians blame them for all the ills of the education system.

Next to roadie there is not a more thankless gig around. Hats off to you :toast:

[LWolf]

187. Thank you. And

thanks for pointing out what really makes education work, regardless of whatever else is going on.

Relationships. Positive relationships between families and teachers.

It's harder for high school teachers; so many classes, so many students, to get to know the students at all, let alone their families, is a challenge.

Some high schools (ours included) are developing configurations to try to keep kids with some of the same teachers all year, or over time, so they can do a better job developing good working relationships.

It's one reason why I've always preferred small schools. When I taught elementary school, I always "looped" my classes, taking them for 2 years at a time. Now that I'm teaching middle school, we're configured so that I get the same kids for 3 years in a row: 6th, 7th, and 8th. Most of the good things we accomplish are built on the relationship we have, which colors how we approach learning. It's not the task, but how we approach it together.

[walldude]

189. Yeah, we have a thing where we live called the parent portal

which basically tells us everything that is going on in the classroom, and in the school. E-mail has made it very easy to stay in touch with all the teachers. We have a kid in elementary, one in middle and one in high school so it helps to be able to do and hear much more than just the usual parent/teacher conferences and do it all in one place. There is no reason these days for parents not to be involved in their kids education.



Teachers like you don't just teach but instill a love of learning that never goes away. Any thanks in this thread should go to you and people like you :)

[LanternWaste]

173. The vast majority of people I know who denigrate the public school systems...

The vast majority of people I know who denigrate the public school systems were low-achieving students who had the same tools and teachers at their disposal as did the class valedictorian, yet would rather place the blame on the system rather than accepting the responsibility for themselves (as an English teacher once told me, "from the perception of the youth, students always 'earn' A's, yet are 'given' F's..." I think she was onto something.

I've never known a valedictorian, salutatorian or member of the honors rolls who denigrates the school system after the fact. But that may be because they're much smarter than the majority of us... :P

[mzteris]

178. yeah. right. sure. . .

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

That is truly hysterical, LW. Really, it is. Thanks for adding some levity to this thread.

[LanternWaste]

179. I imagine we all take from things...

I imagine we all take from things what we will..


-- school also. :P

[democracy1st]

201. K & R