This is NOT over (Pirate Saga)

[Brooklyns_Finest]

I just heard that Adm. Rick Gurnon (president of Mass Maritime Academy) on CNN state that we need to keep our mind on the other 200 hostages that are being held by the pirates. He said that a world wide effort needs to take place to address this problem. The pirates are smart, bold, and hungry. What happened today will not be a deterrent. There is too much money to be made to give up piracy willfully.

[stray cat]

1. Its been a problem for years and not likely to change - but one hostage is on his way home

lets not forget those still being held.

[Uzybone]

2. of course its not over

nor did it begin with Capt Phillips. We only blew it up out of proportion because an American was captured. Now that he is safe the story is over as far as the MSM is concerned.

[walldude]

3. It's not just about money

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-you-are-being-lied-to-about-pirates-1225817.html

This is just the latest article about this. There are enough with enough facts out there to make me sick watching DU count pirate bodies like it's a fucking sport.

[amyrose2712]

6. +++++

[Pavulon]

7. They have no choice but to hold people at the end of a machine gun?

their country is fucked up. They are just feeding their families. West stealing their resources..That about it?

Yeah, not a great idea to hold people hostage, getting shot is one of the outcomes of that decision.

[opihimoimoi]

8. Bad guys deserve the loss due to risk they chose to unnertake...

Live by Piracy...die by it....

fuck yeah...I rejoice the victory...

dead bodies? sad outcome but so avoidable....

[Richardo]

9. Don't go blowing them up into some kind folk heroes. Terrorists are terrorists

...and better dead in my book.

From the very article you cite:

No, this doesn't make hostage-taking justifiable, and yes, some (pirates) are clearly just gangsters – especially those who have held up World Food Programme supplies.

So....fuck 'em.

[Codeine]

11. That's such fucking bullshit.

It's totally about money. That's a pathetic endrun justification to make their greed and savagery seem noble. And you're lapping it up. :puke:

[MADem]

12. That article has been ripped to shit already, here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5440007

How that guy has the nerve to try to say that it's "fair" to hijack SAUDI TANKERS and CONTAINER SHIPS from other nations like India, the UAE, and now, the US because ITALIANS are dumping EUROPEAN "nuclear waste" in their waters and EUROPEANS are stealing fish is just, well, ASININE.

It's a convoluted load of revisionist horseshit. Piracy is piracy. Murder is murder. Hijacking is hijacking. Hostage taking is hostage taking.

And two wrongs never make a right.

That assclown they've got sitting at the UN is a real piece of work.

[Wickerman]

15. Uh, Right. Show me the pirates are doing anything to feed and clothe the poor

of Somalia and I'll actually click on the link and read what the idiot has to say. I'll wait.

[varkam]

16. I think there's probably a happy medium...

in that I think you can recognize that taking hostages is...erm...bound to reduce your life expectancy considerably, while at the same time appreciating the fact that any loss of human life is regrettable, if not unavoidable in certain, limited, and horrifying circumstances.

[walldude]

25. NO there's not. Look around you.

I see people equating dead pirates with a football game: Pirates 0 Navy 1!

I see people screaming USA, USA Rah Rah, yeah right my country right or wrong.

I actually see a post that says "we are all freepers today". Well fuck that.

I never said the pirates weren't assholes all I said was there is more to this story than just money. And I was attacked by fucking losers who claim that the MSM is full of lies and deceit on a daily basis but now use the same MSM to refute any case made for the protection of Somalia from illegal activities done by us and others. Gimme a fucking break.

[varkam]

27. Dude - I was agreeing with you.

Sheesh.

[SammyWinstonJack]

33. .

:thumbsup:

[Fire1]

29. Thanks walldude for the link. It's just as I expected.

[Zhade]

37. That is a very important story. I didn't even know this was happening.

While it doesn't excuse taking hostages, it does provide the context for this situation.

[we can do it]

39. Fuck the Pirates and Their Supporters

[Mike Daniels]

40. This article is so full of shit re: Golden Age era piracy.....

Life at sea wasn't easy but for most professional sailors it was better than life on land at that particular time in history. Granted, people were pressed into service by the British navy but then again pirates pressed crew members from captured vessels into service as well (so much for democracy).

As far as labor on board, even on naval and private merchant ships the crew were divided into watches which resulted in shifts where half the crew worked while the other half slept. The only time people may have to work around the clock were "life or death" situations such as bad weather or battle action.

As far as the psychotic captain having his officers beat everyone mercilessly non-stop...also BS. Granted there were a few rotten apples that should never have been given command of a ship much less a mop but they were the exception (Hugh Pigot of the HMS Hermione being perhaps the best example). A ship requires that a crew work in concert to make it run. The way to do that is to have a "happy" ship and any captain/officer who knew his shit did his damnest to make for a "happy" ship.

Was there discipline on board naval vessels? Of course. However, punishments were scaled for offense and the punishments at sea were much more lenient than land punishments for similar offenses. Given the choice most people would probably take a few strikes of the lash for stealing vs. spending months in a 1700-1800's era jail.

Going back to the "equality of pirates"....in addition to pressing people into service against their will pirates were more likely to sell slaves than to free them. Pirates (being professional sailors) had no use for people who couldn't pull their weight on a ship. If they weren't able to easily sell them they'd maroon them in a location where they'd generally get recaptured or leave them on a deserted ship. Again, exceptions existed as they alway will but the norm does not equal the myth.

Of course, it goes without saying that females unlucky enough to be aboard a captured ship were generally raped or otherwise sexually assaulted.

As far as pirates being rescued by adoring crowds, well the fates of the major pirates of that time show that to be utter bunk as well. Given that most victims of pirates were other sailors who were no better off economically than the general population and given the economic havoc piracy played on towns that depended on mercantile trade there wasn't much gnashing of teeth and wailing when a pirate was taken to the gallows.

People really need to stop using this article as a way of creating some sort of "noble" image for pirates because the source is so wrong on so many levels.

[CJCRANE]

4. Need to follow the money too.

Who is laundering all these ransoms?

There must be bank accounts and financiers/businessmen connected to the pirates.

[MADem]

5. Nope--those idiots pushed the wrong button. We've been aware of this for awhile, and

though there have been some coordinated multinational "show the flag" exercises in the region, we haven't yet gotten serious about this shit. Looks like that is about to change, and IMO, way past due. These clowns have been doing this shit since the very early nineties--back then, it was a minor annoyance, but over the years it has gotten more and more outrageous. I'd say it's time to burst their bubble.

[opihimoimoi]

10. Ditto......Yup It was Time....Them poor Pubs...they actually wanted this to end Badly..

[MADem]

18. I hate to say that about 'mah fellow Americans' but I do think you are correct.

They DID want this to end badly, so they could wave the bloody shirt of the martyred Captain and rally round him as their symbol.

I'll bet they're pissed off to no small extent. I'm so pleased that it was the Department of the Navy that thwarted their goals, too...

[Brooklyns_Finest]

13. First the French

Then us. Instead of being on the defensive, nations are beginning to take it to the pirates. This is a perfect mission for our Navy (and those of other countries). Our Navy might is pretty useless (besides launching air attacks) in Iraq and Afghanistan, but with sea bound piracy, we can make a dent in this crime syndicate.

In the end, the lawlessness in Somalia is the root cause of this problem. Boot on the ground in Somalia, while unwanted, will be the only way to restore order. I am hopeful that these boots come from African soldiers and not America.

[MADem]

21. Even the INDIAN Navy has sent a vessel to the region in the last month or so.

A lot of people are pissed off at these jerks. The Saudis may have been willing to put up with this crap, but that's not how we play it.

I dunno if there need be boots on the ground. This might be an amusing way to test and develop new sea-borne drone assets with new capabilities, without ever having to concern ourselves with going in harm's way. After all, the guys who did the very early drone technology were the NAVY, not the USAF or USA or even USMC. Drones, back when no one wanted them (circa 1992), were a Navy show.

If we can isolate the perpetrators, use drone assets to "follow them home," and take "appropriate action" they may end up suing for peace and agreeing to some sort of multinational/UN-sponsored oversight. The key, though, is to get international/UN blessings before we do anything on a broad scale.

[stillcool]

14. No doubt..

we're just getting started. Hell.. Africom was just launched last year, wasn't it?

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Africa/Somalia_America%27s_Role.html

[bkkyosemite]

17. Every ship should be armed and if a pirate ship approaches a warning shot and if that doesn't work

well they will have to learn the lesson of kidnapping, rape and murder the hard way. Long range hand held missles. They have them. The ship's need them. Whatever they use the ships need to be guarded with the same. That way it is equal and the ships can defend their people from these attacks.

The reason they have gotten by with all these attacks on ships is that the ships have not been armed. They need to be armed and they need to guard their people and their ships. If this was done a long time ago we wouldn't have this problem.

As far as dumping in their part of the sea and stealing from them and their failed government is the excuse for their killing of innocent people. First they have to get their government act together and then declare what is happening to them in the right way. With all this money they are building houses for themselves and giving family and friends some dough. They are not helping there country squat and I really doubt if they care to. People (I read in an article here at DU)there think these pirates are doing this killing, raping, and kidnapping in defense. I say BS.

These are criminal acts by criminals.

Somalia needing aid and help is one thing. And it is sorely needed and something must be done to help these people.

These pirates are another thing. And I do not think they go together. They are uneducated and have known nothing but violence in their growing up years. These people have been killing each other for years. Why isn't everyone in Somalia being Pirates. Because Pirates are not the average citizen. They are criminals using proverty and unfairness in Somalia as their excuse to do the crime.

They need to understand this will no longer be tolerated and it can be stopped if all ships respond to threats appropriately in the same fashion the Pirates respond.

[Arctic Dave]

20. I am going to guess that you have never been more then 10 miles off shore.

Just by the idiotic comment that if anyone comes close to a ship a warning shot should be fire. Do you have any idea how many ships and boats are on the ocean at any given time? I didn't think so. Stay in your bubble to you learn more.

[bkkyosemite]

22. Think what you want. If a ship is coming towards you at high speed with a weapon in their hand shoot

[Arctic Dave]

24. I would guess this would apply in the Straights of Mallaca too?

Do you even have a clue as too how many ship traverse it? Do realize the amount of fishing going at the same time? Get back to me after you google it.

[sendero]

36. You are being disingenuous..

... he's talking about a boat that is attacking, and I don't think it's that fucking hard for a non moron to tell.

[Arctic Dave]

38. How do you tell? Are all hijackings following a script?

If they are wouldn't it be easy to revise the plan?

[bkkyosemite]

23. btw you guess wrong.

[MADem]

26. Actually, the reason they've gotten away with this is because ransoms have been paid in the past.

The Saudis, especially, have been willing to pay to get a platform filled with oil (that will otherwise go BOOM with an RPG attack and make a big mess) worth many, many, MANY millions back for a small percentage of the cost of the asset.

There are problems to be overcome vis a vis arming crews--and they're "International Maritime Law" type problems. Escorts in the short term, identifying perpetrators, warning them off, and if they don't back away, thwarting them with a "convincing and irrevocable response," might do the trick. Also, you don't want a lot of weaponry on ships carrying explosive materials.

We're just not in the mood to play this piracy game with these assclowns. They should have known better. It's entirely possible they didn't realize they were roughing up a US asset when they pulled this stunt. In any event, the party's over for them, and past time, too.

[Captain Hilts]

19. GWB dramatically cut the size of our navy, so our profile in the area is low. nt

[HughMoran]

28. That's cool

We got out captain back and killed the pirates. We win. This didn't start with the US people being kidnapped and won't end any time soon. Making this into something big because it affected precious Americans is stupid, though typical of American arrogance.

[paulsby]

30. that;s how it should be

americans should pay more attention when american interests are attacked than other country's interests and vice versa.

that's how the real world works. and how it should

should we have been more concerned about katrina loss of life than any # of incidents in bangladesh etc. that saw many thousands more die?

of course.

[HughMoran]

31. That doesn't address the "it's not over" question

We'll now help kick some Somali ass, but with all the serious issues in this country, Iraq and Afghanistan, this issue is kind of lame IMO and we won't discuss it much after today, no matter what the alarmists want to claim.

[paulsby]

32. i agree

it was a good story du jour but won't have much legs, nor should it, unless these pirate assmunches take another US ship crew hostage.

it was a good story, and what a great ending

[HughMoran]

34. It was a great ending

:)

[bemildred]

35. The ships need to be adequately armed.

Or the parties that insist that they not be armed need to provide effective protection.