nadinbrzezinski
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Fri Apr-17-09 10:44 AM
Original message |
Letter to congress regarding torture memos |
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(not that I expect to make any difference anymore... the rules of Empire are fully in place and nobody will prosecute anybody in the American Empire)
Senator ------:
I was quite dismayed to read that the President of the United States and AG Holder will not prosecute CIA agents for following orders. Perhaps I missed the memo, but obeying orders as a justification for crime in times of war was thrown out by the International Military Tribunals at both Nuremberg and Tokyo.
In fact, one of the Charges against So-Sho (General) Hideyoshi Yamashita was waterboarding US troops. He was convicted and hung for it (among other things). We also shot US troops for using these means during the Spanish-American War in the Phillipines.
I can only conclude that the United States of America, at the highest levels of government, has lost its moral compass and its abiltiy to lead anybody when it comes to morality.
According to the UCMJ the only people who can be given a pass are E-3 and bellow, and this comes straight from Nuremberg. Moreover, US laws passed in 1997 make torture a criminal complaint.
I guess somem people are indeed above the law...
A very sad day for the United States... indeed.
Sincerely,
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Hell Hath No Fury
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Fri Apr-17-09 11:30 AM
Response to Original message |
1. They need to get 3 million -- |
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letters like that.
I will be starting on one shortly.
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nadinbrzezinski
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Fri Apr-17-09 11:31 AM
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2. It won't matter though |
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I just do it anymore for my own spiritual health
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slipslidingaway
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Fri Apr-17-09 11:34 AM
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cali
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Fri Apr-17-09 11:36 AM
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4. here's the problem with your letter- not that I don't appreciate the sentiment |
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these people weren't told to torture. that's not what this is about. The Office of Legal Counsel very clearly defined the torture as not being torture, ergo those receiving orders to interoggate using those techniques, were not receiving orders to torture. Or so the legal argument goes. I know people want to ignore such pesky things, and I do think these people should be prosecuted, but you didn't really phrase it accurately.
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nadinbrzezinski
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Fri Apr-17-09 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #4 |
5. In the final analysis people were water boarded |
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Edited on Fri Apr-17-09 11:56 AM by nadinbrzezinski
we hung a Japanese General for that, he was convicted on that charge
We shot US troops for that
Is that clear enough for you?
That's the pesky detail I am addressing in a letter an aide will conveniently ignore
Now, this is an empire, and the logic of empire is running this. Empires torture, and justify all to maintain the empire
People OUTSIDE the US know this is am empire... time the American people realize this.
I will protest... I will speak against it, I will demand prosecution, but reality is, I'm spitting in the wind. NOTHING will happen, no matter how many times we the people, the few that realize how wrong this is, protest about it
We no longer hold the moral high ground, and we are no longer a nation of laws.
The US, the one I took an oath to protect and defend died in 2000... about December 12th, when the USSC rules on Bush V Gore, that is when it became official.. the move we've been moving toward since at least 1945
Read the fall of the Roman Republic, the parallels are astounding.
Cato is pretty instructive...so it Tacitus
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cali
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Fri Apr-17-09 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
6. that however, does not |
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negate the fact that the Office of Legal Counsel found that it was not torture. Of course it's torture, genius. that's not what I'm explaining to you.
And empires don't have logic. It's absurd to attribute such a thing to an entity such as empire. that's a hollow and meaningless exlamation, dear. And it's hardly just empires that torture. The real point is that humans torture.
Furthermore, it's delusional to think that America once held some great moral high ground. It didin't. Does the incarceration in prison camps of Japanese Americans rings a bell? The revisionist crap you're piously delivering is laughable. The U.S. died in 2000? Drama queen bullshit.
And stuff your condescending nonsense. I've read Tacitus and Cato and quite a bit more. I studied Classics.
Of course you love revisionist histrionic drama queen crap. I haven't forgotten some of your absurd claims which I refuted with evidence.
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nadinbrzezinski
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Fri Apr-17-09 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
7. Get this through your mind, I don't care what they found |
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The IMT at Nuremberg also indicted the German justice system... for similar reasons as to why we should indict ours about now.
And nobody is justyfing the incarceration of Japanese Americans, slavery, the genocide of American Indians, you are in your fevered imagination Cali.
Fact is, I'm spitting in the wind, and you are embracing the logic of empire
I will not take that step with you...
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cali
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Fri Apr-17-09 12:06 PM
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8. or for fuck's sake. your hyper-emotionalism and inflated sense of |
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Edited on Fri Apr-17-09 12:27 PM by cali
self-importance are utterly laughable. You can't discuss this with any logic and you're ascribing motives and beliefs to me that are simply false. Have fun with that, nadine, dear.
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nadinbrzezinski
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Fri Apr-17-09 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
9. Look in the mirror, why I usually don't answer to you |
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your lack of sense of what is right or wrong is what is laughable
This is not emotion
Now go read CATO or TACITUS... or for that matter the rise and fall... or the American judge at Nuremberg
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cali
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Fri Apr-17-09 12:12 PM
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10. As I informed you, nadine, I've studied Classics. |
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in a post-grad program with an exceptional Tutor. I have two MAs in history, sweetie. And your much vaunted historical knowledge has shown itself to be bullshit. I haven't forgotten that.
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nadinbrzezinski
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Fri Apr-17-09 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
11. It does not show sweetie... dear |
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now you choose to take that step justifying illegal orders and what constitutes a break in the legal system, you embraced empire, not me.
As informed as you claim to be, morality was not part of your formal or informal education
Then again, most people in the right circumstances would torture... you are among most people
Seen it, get it through your head
Smelled it, get it through your head
Cannot justify it, under the most torturous of arguments
You will... you have... we part company.
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cali
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Fri Apr-17-09 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
12. One more time, little genius. |
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I'm not justifying anything. I'm all for prosecuting the whole lot of them. Let that sink into your, uh, brain. Your sense of smell, nadiny, is clearly corrupted by olfactory delusions. And your ignorance is utterly uncorrectable. Let me add that people who constantly crow about how moral they are, are largely fundy assholes. And you do a lot of crowing about how moral you are. Sick shit, honey.
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nadinbrzezinski
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Fri Apr-17-09 12:35 PM
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now you call me a fundy... cute... sweetness
You are justifying it, you said that it was authorized by legal memos
Swewetie, my love, that is justifying it... that is a CORRUPTED SYSTEM
You were called on it, so now you are for prosecuting the lot.}
Have a good life sweetie
As to my ignorance, well you know about opinions... and assholes... look in the mirror
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cali
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Fri Apr-17-09 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
14. hey, the shoe fits you, sweetie. |
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and no, I didn't justify anything. I explained certain legal factors that went right over your self-proclaimed "brilliant" head.
and here you are getting huffy over my comments when you so much as proclaimed me to be immoral. That called hypicrisy. And with you it's not just writ large, it's scrawled in neon ten foot letters.
Aw well, as a great writer and thinker once said, "Only hypocrites can't forgive hypocrisy". Now you can run off and find out who said it.
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nadinbrzezinski
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Fri Apr-17-09 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
15. Legal factors that the IMT threw out |
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got it now?
Or do you really need to go search for these things? Free hint, use the google
These are also legal factors that US law also threw out during the several international treaties and national law
Again, use the google
GOT IT NOW?
These are the kinds of torturous arguments justifying this.
Have fun... as I said before we part company
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cali
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Fri Apr-17-09 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
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you amuse me, dearie. and you're the one in need of teh google.
ta ta, nadine.
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nadinbrzezinski
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Fri Apr-17-09 01:03 PM
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