Scientific origins of H1N1/A, aka Swine Flu

[TZ]

Swine flu: The predictable pandemic?
THE swine flu virus has been a serious pandemic threat for years, New Scientist can reveal - but research into its potential has been neglected compared with other kinds of flu.

As New Scientist went to press, cases were being reported far from the original outbreak in Mexico. The clusters of milder infections in the US suggest the virus is spreading readily among people. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) says this strain is so different from existing human flu viruses that most people have no immunity to it. There are no existing vaccines.

All this means the virus could go pandemic. Or it might not: if the virus spreads less readily than is feared, it might not be able to maintain itself in the human population and could fizzle out (see "What makes flu go global?").

We could have seen this coming, though. This type of virus emerged in the US in 1998 and has since become endemic on hog farms across North America. Equipped with a suite of pig, bird and human genes, it was also evolving rapidly.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20227063.800-swine-flu-the-predictable-pandemic.html?page=1
Hindsight is 20/20 but its pretty obvious to most epidemiologists that this virus has been around for awhile. Even should this outbreak stay very mild (lets hope) there is obviously ALOT to be learned from this about the mutation rates and causes of influenza.

[Junkdrawer]

1. And all this is now, officially, a "conspiracy theory" in the corporate press...

conspiracy theory: (n) Any news item or collection of facts which would negatively impact mainstream economic or political interests and, so, must be suppressed.

[TZ]

3. Who is surpressing this?

New Scientist isn't exactly hard to find? Its basically pop science...:shrug:

[Junkdrawer]

7. "Swine flu source spawns wild theories"

LONDON (Reuters) - Dead pigs in China, evil factory farms in Mexico and an Al Qaeda plot involving Mexican drug cartels are a few wild theories seeking to explain a deadly swine flu outbreak that has killed up to 176 people.

...

And in Mexico reports in at least two newspapers focused on a factory farm run by a subsidiary of global food giant Smithfield Foods. Some of the rumors mentioned noxious fumes from pig manure and flies -- neither a known vector for flu viruses.

Those reports brought a swift reply from the biggest U.S. hog producer.

"Based on available recent information, Smithfield has no reason to believe that the virus is in any way connected to its operations in Mexico," the company said in a statement.


http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSTRE53T3ZK20090430

That last "fact" was directly contradicted by the professor of environmental health at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health whose article aired on Living on Earth.

[TZ]

11. Ah not suppression but spawning of Junk/psuedoscience

Which the articles you posted are just FULL OF. Please don't spread politically spawned inaccuracies.
Your article is suspiciously incorrect and speculative. I would trust the opinion of WHO over one crank.

[Junkdrawer]

2. Living on Earth: Farming the Flu

Ellen Silbergeld is professor of environmental health at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.

...

YOUNG: Why do you suspect these large-scale farms? What is it about this particular method of farming that you think makes it easier for viruses to change and to jump from species to species?

SILBERGELD: Well, this, of course, is not strictly limited to influenza viruses, but is based on observations by us and others in studying bacteria as well as viruses.

These operations contain elements that really are conducive to raising concerns for public health. You have thousands of animals, in the case of pigs usually between two and six thousand animals, held in close confinement under conditions that are not sanitary, that is frankly that they're housed with their wastes. And therefore you've got a lot of hosts available to exchange a pathogen, which is one of the processes by which viruses and bacteria evolve and acquire mutations. And then the way in which these operations are run – and I want to stress that this is a worldwide issue, it is not peculiar or restricted to Mexico.

You have situations that are not bio-secure and also large amounts of waste that are not well regulated in terms of their management or disposal. In terms of bio-security, it's generally not recognized that these operations have to be high ventilated. When you put two to six thousand animals in side a building, you have to have very high rates of ventilation or that animals will die of heat stress. So several researchers have in fact reported that in the environs of these large operations, you can detect pathogens in the outflow air from these exhaust fans. People have also isolated influenza virus from the legs and feet of flies in the vicinity of these operations. This was noted in some outbreaks of avian influenzas, for example, in Japan. So, the lack of bio-security, the very dense populations, the conditions that are conducive to viral evolution and mutation and the lack of control over disposal of waste from these animals which also contain pathogens are really the elements that have given rise to concern for us and many others as to the public health implications of this manner of food animal production.

YOUNG: So despite their efforts to keep it secure, you can't stop the flow of air, you can't stop insects.

SILBERGELD: Well, the issue is most of the bio-security practices that have been developed by the industry – most of them have been to protect the animals from a person bringing in a disease that could be dangerous to the health of the animals. In terms of what we call bio-containment – that is preventing from something that might be in the house from coming out – there's very, very imperfect and limited protection.

YOUNG: Is there evidence that the people who work at these type farms are more susceptible to catching diseases from the animals and able to spread disease to other people.

SILBERGELD: There's considerable evidence that workers in these operations, farmers and farm workers are in fact at greater risk of exposure. Studies conducted in Iowa and other places have demonstrated that workers in swine CAFOs have a high rate of infection by swine influenzas. In the same way that we and others have reported that workers in poultry houses have a high rate of being infected by poultry born pathogens. Now – and here's one of the tricky things – they may not be sick. I'm sure you've heard of Typhoid Mary – and the really worrying thing in public health is what we call the asymptomatic carrier, that is a person who's become infected by a pathogen but does not get sick.

...

http://www.loe.org/shows/segments.htm?programID=09-P13-00018&segmentID=3

[TZ]

4. oddly enough

Most of the confirmed cases AREN'T farm workers though..which shows this is much more complex than simple zoonotic transmission.

[hedgehog]

6. This is the first time I've seen a scientist confirm transmission by

insect vector. That puts an entire new slant to the stories from Mexico of clouds of flies around the manure lagoons.

[Junkdrawer]

8. I think it's way past time to mandate sewage treatment for factory farms.

Humans learned that insects and open fecal pits lead to disease after the plagues in the Middle Ages.

[TZ]

10. insects don't transmit influenza though

and it was fleas ON THE RATS AND MICE that transmitted plague. Please keep your facts straight here. Your article is suspect in terms of scientific accuracy.

[Junkdrawer]

14. The fact that the WHO was able to be bullied into dropping the "Swine Flu" label...

tells me that they are susceptible to political pressures.

And I wouldn't characterize a Johns Hopkins professor of environmental health as a "crank".

[TZ]

18. They weren't bullied "Swine Flu" IS inaccurate.

The WHO is a scientific group and strives for scientific accuracy. H1N1/A is what this virus is. And your argument from authority smells like the argument of the RWinger who finds a crank scientist who argues that global warming is a myth when clearly the scientific consensus is otherwise.
I trust the WHO and my 15 years in biology/immunology professionally. Your data comes from a site with a political agenda. Since you proved that you don't even know the real causes of bubonic plague, you have proved your credibility in this arena is ZIP. I suggest you stop trying to undermine the REAL science in my OP. My goal is to educate. Yours is to do the opposite in order to push your agenda.

[Junkdrawer]

23. Just like they dropped the "Avian Flu" name in 2005...

And the "Swine Flu" name in 1976?

Oh, wait, the source then was poor Chinese farmers and so there was no need for increased "scientific accuracy".

[TZ]

24. Because there are multiple strains of avian flu and H5N1 was the one they were concerned with

God forbid scientists want to describe things ACCURATELY. :sarcasm:
BTW, if you read this article (which it seems you DID NOT) you will find out WHY scientists have been concerned with H5N1. But learning isn't what you want to do..Spreading propaganda for your political agenda..Thats what you are interested in.

[Junkdrawer]

26. Accusing me of appeals to authority and "spreading propaganda for your political agenda"....

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

My "agenda" is waste treatment for industrial livestock farms in order to prevent the spread of disease.

What's your agenda?

[TZ]

28. Spreading scientific information

Not lies like "flies cause the flu". I'm not saying that factoring farming didn't play a hand. But your article is clearly scientifically inaccurate. So either a) she's been misquoted (possible the MSM knows shit about science) or b)She's a Crank.
I've met cranks at NIH, and know from personal knowledge that there are plenty of Cranks at Johns Hopkins.
I prefer to get my data from peer reviewed journals. And once again its obvious that you read NOTHING from my article..You obviously know all you need to know about biology from teh web right?

[hedgehog]

29. Ahem

Houseflies can produce huge economic and sanitary problems, especially in modern farm animal business. As an example, the annual damage in Georgia (3.3 million cattle and 27 million poultry) caused by houseflies alone was calculated to be around 2.4 million USD per year.1 The major damage in livestock is caused by the transmission of various diseases. Among them as one of the most threatening diseases not only for the animals but also for human beings is avian influenza (AI).2 Other diseases transmitted by flies are tuberculosis,3 coccidosis,4 cholera,5 helminthiasis,6 PRRS,7 and approximately 100 further diseases.8


http://www.canadianpoultrymag.com/content/view/1187/142/


My impression is that the virus is also shed in feces, and the flies carry feces.



I also have come across several secondary references to biting flies, although I can't find a primary source for this.

[Jim Pivonka]

31. This is not a swine flu. It is a human, H1N1 flu strain.

Another strain of H1N1 flu has been endemic in humans since 1977 when it "emerged" from a laboratory freezer.

H1N1 identifies one large class of viruses based on the components of the virus capsule or coating that elicits the immune response. Different H1N1 strains have different subtypes of these components, which affect their virulence and transmissability.

This is NOT a swine flu. It is an H1N1 flu. It originated as a new, recombinant flu strain in 2009, which differentiates it from another H1N1 flu which originated in 1977.

[TZ]

9. I would not trust that source.

As an immunologist who has worked with epidemiologsts AFAIK, influenza is NOT insect transmissible. Other diseases are. Please read the OP I posted for actual scientific information. There is no political agenda attached to what I posted. Can't say the same for that article.

[hedgehog]

12. Can you comment on this scenario?

1. Flu viruses remain viable for several days outside a living body.

2. Insects pick up the viruses on their feet and legs.

3. Insects land on people or on objects people touch, thereby transmitting the virus.

Is it possible, impossible, extremely unlikely? Remember, we're talking clouds of insects that are a nuisance in near-by communities.

[TZ]

15. Impossible

Influenza IS NOT transmissible by insects. Some viri are. The structure of the insect itself is not compatible with the environment needed to transmit.
BTW, although influenza can live for several days on some surfaces, the most notible methods of transmission are droplet transmission.
Please note that you are trying to make the same arguments that HIV fear mongers made in the 1980's about the spread of HIV. THere are known vectors of transmission for certain family of virae. Influenza is NOT an insect born illness. If it was, we would see it more common in the countries that suffer from malaria. We do not.

[hedgehog]

17. I agree that influenza is not directly transmitted by insects through

insect bites. I was suggesting the possibility that insects could spread the virus to surfaces that people touch. If people can't pick up the virus from hard surfaces, why the emphasis on disinfecting telephones and keyboards?

[TZ]

19. How do you think the virus gets onto surfaces?

Droplet transmission. The insect CANNOT EVEN CARRY THE VACCINE. This is microbiology 101.

[hedgehog]

25. From the interview:

People have also isolated influenza virus from the legs and feet of flies in the vicinity of these operations. This was noted in some outbreaks of avian influenzas, for example, in Japan

http://www.loe.org/shows/segments.htm?programID=09-P13-00018&segmentID=3


Also:

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vetext/INF-DA/FliesandDisease.pdf

[TZ]

27. Yes I know flies carry disease

but the virus is TOO SMALL for them to carry it. BTW, you do know that a lot of insect borne disease is NOT from the legs of the insect but from the biting/saliva/gut of these insects. Please remember that bacteria and viri are TOTALLY different organisms..You are posting something about bacteria. Fly legs CANNOT transmit enough viri (if at all) to cause someone to get sick. (for instance 5 viri aren't going to get you sick).
Find me a WHO or NIH/NIAID article on influenza being transmitted by insects. You are making the same arguments that people made about HIV..because it was a blood borne disease it was "logical" to assume that mosquitoes could transmit it..which is false--HIV cannot survive inside of a mosquito..Even malaria, the ultimate insect borne disease is transmitted from the mosquitoes GUT...they don't survive on the legs.
Can flies transmit bacterial material on their legs. Absolutely. The bacteria is about a thousand times larger than a viri and the hairs on the fly legs can carry it.
But its micro 101 that insects can't transmit influenza. Studying biology is about more than just reading things on the internet and thinking "wow that sounds logical". It takes people years to earn their degrees for a reason.

Find a scientific journal about these viri that were isolated from the legs of flies to me..And then PROVE to me that transmission from these insects has been found. I don't believe everything I read on teh internets about science unless I have peer reviewed data. Not just unsubstantiated claims from one agenda pushing crank.

[Junkdrawer]

32. Here you go:

Detection and isolation of highly pathogenic H5N1 avian influenza A viruses from blow flies collected in the vicinity of an infected poultry farm in Kyoto, Japan, 2004.

Sawabe K, Hoshino K, Isawa H, Sasaki T, Hayashi T, Tsuda Y, Kurahashi H, Tanabayashi K, Hotta A, Saito T, Yamada A, Kobayashi M.

Department of Medical Entomology, National Institute of Infectious Diseases, Tokyo, Japan. [e-mail]

During the outbreak of highly pathogenic avian influenza that occurred in Tamba Town, Kyoto Prefecture in 2004, a total of 926 flies were collected from six sites within a radius of 2.3 km from the poultry farm. The H5 influenza A virus genes were detected from the intestinal organs, crop, and gut of the two blow fly species, Calliphora nigribarbis and Aldrichina grahami, by reverse transcription-polymerase chain reaction for the matrix protein (M) and hemagglutinin (HA) genes. The HA gene encoding multiple basic amino acids at the HA cleavage site indicated that this virus is a highly pathogenic strain. Based on the full-length sequences of the M, HA, and neuraminidase (NA) segments of virus isolates through embryonated chicken eggs, the virus from C. nigribarbis (A/blow fly/Kyoto/93/2004) was characterized as H5N1 subtype influenza A virus and shown to have > 99.9% identities in all three RNA segments to a strain from chickens (A/chicken/Kyoto/3/2004) and crows (A/crows/Kyoto/53/2004) derived during this outbreak period in Kyoto in 2004. Our results suggest it is possible that blow flies could become a mechanical transmitter of H5N1 influenza virus.

PMID: 16896143

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16896143?dopt=AbstractPlus

[Warpy]

5. Factory farming of animals is a very bad idea

and maybe, just maybe, this will sound enough of an alarm that new plants won't be built.

Then again, I'm probably dreaming. Having ultra cheap "the other white meat" is more important that risking a global pandemic that might not happen until we're dead and gone from some other cause.

[TZ]

13. It isn't just factory farming that is the big risk here.

If you remember with SARS it was the eating of exotics in China..the Civit Cat that spawned this. As long as people interact with animals on a large scale this is going to be a risk..And since I don't believe for a second that everyone is going vegan tomorrow, its something that does need to be dealt with.

[Warpy]

20. Right, and the slaughter of bush meat gave us HIV

We've been swapping diseases back and forth for as long as we've eaten the animals that have them.

However, factory farming exists as an incubator for these diseases, pretty much ensuring the next plague will be sudden and widespread.

[TZ]

22. I agree with you

However, given the high demand for meat world wide, I'm really at a loss on how to fix this problem without large scale disruptions to the food supply..:shrug:

[dipsydoodle]

16. There could be an odd downside to this for some.

Current flu jabs help prevent contracting three flu types other than H1N1/A.

Apparently, if a pandemic were to be declared , the only way to increase production of a vaccine to necessary levels once such a vaccine had been approved, would be to dump inclusion of the existing three.

That, it is considered , would have an extreme adverse effect on the elderlie who would be be deprived of their annual jabs later this year.

[TZ]

21. Yeah thats definitely an issue

We don't have the capacity to produce both types of vaccines. AND right now is when normal manufacturing begins for next season's vaccines so decisions really have to come soon.
This is why its important to have good info on the spread. Just in case we get another more serious wave of it.

[Jim Pivonka]

30. "This" virus is new. It has not "been around for a while".

For a good summary of the current research on the origins of this virus see here: http://www.kansascity.com/437/v-print/story/1175886.html

The new, human, H1N1 virus has NEVER been seen in pigs or in pork products.

A virus seen in pigs more than 10 years ago contained genes from 3 of the 4 sources making up this new, human, H1N1 virus.

"Two of the segments, Rabadan said, appear to come from Eurasia and are somewhat mysterious in origin. The other six can be traced to the North American pig outbreak, which turned out to include a combination of avian, swine and human flu."