Justification for murder

[Aethertek]

So I'm going to post a lot of nonsense from another board, this is the place that I argue with all the conservative types.

The justifications that they make for the killing of innocent woman & children are simply ignorant & outrageous to my mind.

What will some of you think of these back & forths.


Quote:conservative type

please mommy. don't slaughter me for allah.
too much to ask.
this is not human. curse you muhammed and the basis for these actions you loosed among humanity.
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Quote:Aethertek
Yet it is your cowardly christian war machine that butchers children with bombs & artilleries as well.

Look into the mirror human.

No Peace
K~
& don't any of you come back with the usual filth of collateral damage.
Your country, your people reek with the stench of death as well.
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Quote:Conservative type

Originally Posted by Aethertek
Yet it is your cowardly christian war machine that butchers children with bombs & artilleries as well.


it is your morality that has you comparing accidents of war to women dragging five year old children along before intentionally shredding them to bloody gobbets.

look in the mirror yourself, human. look what you make moral equivalence with because you cannot discern the difference.

see? who is threatening others? what a peaceful guy you are.

Originally Posted by Aethertek
& don't any of you come back with the usual filth of collateral damage.


don't tell anyone else what to argue or not argue. your morality is already on display.

I will argue anything I so choose. And now, you will get what you didn't want..discussion of the morality of killing people by accident and doing it on purpose, with full intent.

according to you, it is exactly the same moral circumstance to harm a child who is not a target as to intentionally kill one as a target or weapon.

let's have it. tell us what you think of these arguments, in detail so we can see your position clearly.
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Quote:Aethertek

Accidents, always your excuse, what a crock of .
Oh when we bomb & butcher it just by accident but when they bomb & butcher they're evil.
Quite right they are & so are the filthy war mongers in this country who have murdered how many around the world.
Your people are no better than those others.
Give it a rest, pawn your ignorant lies on fools who will believe them.
We know the city is filled with woman & children but when our bombs fall they'll just die by accident. Oohps we didn't mean to kill them.
You & all those who believe as you do are the "moral equivalent" of those that butchered those innocents.

& as far as my morals I'm no saint I've killed but I be damned to hell before I take the life of a woman or child.
I don't have many rules but one I do live by is No woman no kids.
No Peace
K~
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Quote:Conservative type

so we are to believe there is no moral difference between not aiming at a kid and aiming intentionally at a kid?

interesting

Originally Posted by Aethertek
Oh when we bomb & butcher it just by accident but when they bomb & butcher they're evil.


well yes. when you bomb and butcher and intentionally pick innocents as the targets, you're evil.

are you getting all this? Or is the complexity of this, off the scale?


Originally Posted by Aethertek
Quite right they are & so are the filthy war mongers in this country who have murdered how many around the world.
Your people are no better than those others.


right. it's no better to not target innocents with full intent as the intended targets than it is to not do it.

Quote:
& as far as my morals I'm no saint I've killed but I be damned to hell before I take the life of a woman or child.


sure. nothing you have ever supported has taken the life of a woman or a child.

right!
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Quote:Religous type

Kevin, Why did the woman do this?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/w...4iraq.html?_r=1
Are you defending her actions?

This is so hard to understand.
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Quote:Consevative type

he's not defending her actions, I don't believe. he is however drawing an intrisincally flawed moral comparison
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Quote:Aethertek

Don't waste my time, I know what you support & if there is a god so does he, explain it to him.

Tell yourself whatever lies you must to live with it.

Forever No Peace
K~

I won't shout at stones...
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Quote:Conservative type

you're the only one shouting and not listening. I understand your arguments. you can't even present an articulate critique of mine, other than simply stating how it's all the same.

dodge

dodge

dodge

and yet, i'm sure you're sure you're right, mr forever no peace.

yes, you're mr peaceful all right. who are you threatening with your 'forever no peace'?
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Quote:Religious type

Is he condemning her actions then or justifying them because of war casualties and collateral damage?
Both are regrettable and every effort in war usually is to avoid such, but in her actions it's deliberate or... is it because her family was held hostage to be executed if she didn't carry out this atrocity?
A lot of unknowns are at question for her behavior.
What she did doesn't make any sense for either side so I suspect she was a forced and sacrificial pawn.
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Quote:Conservative type

it doesn't need to make sense to western eyes. things only need to make sense if they are rational. if they are not, try as you might, it will never make sense because it doesn't make sense.

look at the proud palestinian mothers urging their sons to blow themselves up and take some jews with them
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Quote:Religious type

All this hatred from a birthright?
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Originally Posted by religious type
Is he condemning her actions then or justifying them because of war casualties and collateral damage?

Quote:Aethertek
Why don't you read the damn post.

Every war, police action or bringing democracy to the middle east is gone into with the knowledge that civilian casualties will ensue, you know acceptable losses, collateral damage.
This is known & quantified before hand, so it's not an accident when they're killed.
So these deaths are intensional as they're expected up front, before action starts.
So as much as the holier than thou would like to believe themselves superior to the common whack job who straps a bomb to their chest its just as cowardly if not more so to lob bombs from a safe distance,
At least the nut freak that suicide bombs people has the decency to kill themselves as well. Good riddance.

No peace
K~
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Quote:Religious type

Every war, police action or (attempt at) bringing democracy to the middle east is to try and stop the horrific crimes of Islamic, Sharia madness, or oppression against people who don't submit to its belief and life rule.
There are certianly plenty and their numbers are growing daily don't you agree?
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Quote:Conservative type

If all this were true, then we might as well have just turned Iraq into a big glass parking lot from the get go.

However, I would submit that there is a great contrast between a people who do the minimal harm to achieve their purposes, and a people who achieve their purposes by inflicting maximum harm.
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Originally Posted by Aethertek
Don't waste my time...

Quote:Israeli Zionist
That's a good one. Nobody forces you to "waste your time" reading LTUP threads. You do that of your own accord. You are wasting your own time then?
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Quote:Athertek
We had to destroy the village in order to save it.
Ya I've heard that one before.
Explain it to the dead, I'm sure they'll understand & forgive.
I just can't stand the utter hypocrisy of the argument, if they kill ten babies but we only kill four we're better than they are, they're evil & we're righteous.
Doesn't wash any way you try to justify it.
What I see are people willing to commit any atrocity out of their fear, they're willing to kill the innocent to save their own lives.
If someone points a gun at you & tells you to kill that woman & child are you going to do it or are you going to tell them to sod off.
Your life or theirs which would you choose.
Me personally after I try to off the gunholder if I fail I'll take the bullet before I commit the crime.

"Moral equivalence" thats right, lobbing bombs or artillery at known locations that house civilians is morally equivalent to strapping a bomb to your chest & running into a group of civilians.

The argument that you try to minimize the damage is empty justification for your heinous crime.
By that argument you would support the bomber that ran into a crowed of ten versus a hundred.

No Peace
K`
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Originally Posted by Israeli Zionist
That's a good one. Nobody forces you to "waste your time" reading LTUP threads. You do that of your own accord. You are wasting your own time then?

Quote:Aethertek
Look who started the terrorist bombings in the middle east anyway, thats right the zionists blowing up the british to steal the land that didn't belong to them.

The original middle east terrorists, the zionists.
What goes around comes around... hows that working out for you.
Eye for an eye thats what your religion preaches, you take their eye they take your eye round & round it goes.
But your people started it back in the late 40s, reap what you've sown.

No Peace
K~
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Quote:Religious type

Kevin those who commit aggressions and murder etc. and then hide in civilian habitat for protection are guilty of bringing such engagement upon the innocents, It' simple hostage holding in a crime scene nothing more.
You can not negotiate with them or it becomes the standard of engagement. LOSE LOSE every time.
Think about it a bit, there is no win with this type of submission.
To cure a cancer there needs aggression, Is the jihadist Muslim way of life a cancer?

Yes in every way. they seek to oppress and restrict the human need for growth evolution and development with horrific crime and these things are a call of nature or natural path for evolution that need to occur in our world.
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Quote:Aethertek

I see so when the bank robber takes hostages just go in & shoot everyone.
Great plan, aren't you one of the ones claiming to be a christian on this board.
So can you justify that to your god or is yours the vengeful god from the bible that tells you to slaughter your enemies down to the last woman & child.
Or gee those bombs were just a natural disaster waiting to happen how tragic must be gods will.
Look man justify it to yourself any way you need to.
The ends justify the means right?

I wont take the life of an innocent & I won't accept any lame self serving excuse for anyone else that does.

Cheer all the killing you want, be as blood thirsty as you can stand but don't try to justify it to me.

Look I sure as heck ain't supporting the muslim religion but then christianity, judaism whateverism I don't support either.
All the religious isms are ridiculous nonsense as far as I'm concerned,
& all sides of the equation are equally guilty.
All religions neuter human evolution they were created by man to justify their oppression of the weaker among them.

So hey sleep well tonight knowing that all the killing of the innocents is justified & righteous, they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Pleasant Dreams
K~
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Quote:Probably a DU-er

Good post.
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So I've had these same arguments over & over again with these "people" & to me they can justify any killing that their side does as collateral damage, the killing on the other side horror & evil abounds.

Their killing is righteous because they try to kill less or they had no choice or the lawfull conduct of war allows this.

For me all I can say is (I'm going to cuss here cause we're not allowed to on that board)
What the fuck is wrong, seriously wrong with these "people".

They truly believe this ignorant shit that they post.

So tell me is my irish / italian blood just making me over react or what?

Kevin~

PS Notice the one freeper goes to how I'm threatening someone because I sign off with no peace.
The mods over there are freeper types so I'm sure it will get reported.

[Strong Atheist]

1. Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[Aethertek]

2. Thanks

Been here for years, since after the 2000 debacle I needed to know not everyone in this country were dumber than a box of rocks, just recently started to post here though.

Peace
Kevin~