Star Trek, Batman, "X-men," "Wolverine" etc -- why the hell do adults care about this shit?

[smalll]

Fuckin' Hell on wheels -- can someone explain to me why ADULTS (often, dishearteningly, well-educated, intelligent, upper-middle-class latte types) care about such juvenilia?

Like I was at my local bar on Friday night, and while ordering a beer up at the bar, happened to eavesdrop on a pair of clearly pleasant, intelligent, youngish upper-middle-class dudes, getting into a deep conversation about Bat Man "qua" Bat Man, plus how far things have advanced paradigm-wise on an almost parabolic curve since Adam West.

What does this say about our culture that otherwise putatively smart dudes obsess about such adolescent follies?

Plus, all us normals have at least HEARD of Batman, Superman, light-sabres and what have you -- but what does it mean when it seems like virtually every other movie that comes out is based on some obscure niche-market comic-book -- -- that anyone who didn't grow up as some premature Jabba the Hut destined to end up as a Cyclops --NEVER HEARD OF (sysops, I think that might be the more exact term) -- when every other such movie means NOTHING to any of us, but of course, most of us keep quiet, because for some reason, your standard contemporary film critic is clearly wikipediaing as fast as they can so that they can pretend that it's somehow normal to have some vague inkling as to what all these pre-pubescent super-heros are about?

[Marr]

1. It's called entertainment.

People do like to occasionally pull their heads out of the real world and relax for a bit. You might try it.

[and-justice-for-all]

91. +1...and thanks for expressing my feelings on this...nt

[dysfunctional press]

288. +2...

although i probably would have substituted the word "ass" for the phrase "real world".

but that's just me.

[Javaman]

353. Or as I like to say, "sometimes I want a twinkie". LOL

not everything has to be an excessive in intellectual gymnastics.

[Iggo]

2. I like movies about the comic books I enjoyed as a kid.

So sue me.

[wuushew]

3. More comic movies are being made now because the CGI is finally up to the task

What would you have hollywood make instead? Its hard to make something is not tired and derivative in this day and age.

[DJ13]

6. What would you have hollywood make instead?

Good science fiction based on popular sci fi novels.

(Star Trek doesnt count.)

Oh dont get me wrong, I love the good comic movies, but the CGI can finally bring the greats of science fiction to life.

Books like Ringworld or Lucifer's Hammer by Larry Niven, or many by Greg Bear would be my choice.

[Marr]

10. I would LOVE to see a Ringworld movie.

It's a very visual book. I think the scale could actually be communicated pretty well with CGI now.

[GaYellowDawg]

42. Yep - "Known Space" is rife with good stories.

Some of the stories in the Man-Kzin anthologies would be fun, too.

[paulsby]

143. wizard of earthsea

not that i agree with the OP (see my other post), but i would love to see wizard of earthsea given a peter jackson like treatment

[Xithras]

221. Sadly, won't happen for years.

The SciFi channel fubar that they called an "EarthSea" miniseries flopped so badly that industry execs won't be touching it again for decades.

[paulsby]

270. was that the one

with the girl from smallville in it?

that SUCKED.

[Xithras]

283. Yes, the same. It was awful .

Unfortunatly that's the Earthsea now imprinted on the minds of the people who weren't familiar with the book, but who saw the miniseries. I've recommended the books to people since, and have had people tell me "No thanks, I saw the TV version and wasn't interested." TV execs know that, which is why they won't touch it again until the SciFi version is collectively forgotten.

In many ways, it's the same situation as the Sword of Truth/Legend of the Seeker series. I loved the Sword of Truth series and thought it was one of the better fantasy series of recent decades. ABC licensed it and turned it into Legend of the Seeker, which is only remotely related to the book series. For fans of the books, it's a travesty. The TV series has ensured that no proper television or movie adaptation will happen for decades.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for A Song of Ice & Fire though. If that one gets ruined in the adaptation, I'll be crushed. If ever there was a book series that lends itself to becoming a long-running television show or series of movies, ASOIAF is it. The fact that HBO is picking it up, and not a network focused on per-episode ratings, is encouraging.

[Withywindle]

316. Is that the one where they made all the main characters WHITE?

Feh. Ursula K. LeGuin was furious over it.

[sweetloukillbot]

435. There IS a Le Guin-approved Earthsea movie.

Didn't expect this to be my first post - but there is an animated Earthsea from the son of Hayao Miyazaki, the director of Spirited Away and Princess Mononoke. Apparently Ursula LeGuin wanted Miyazaki to direct, but he was unavailable so he had his son do the film with her blessing. Seems to have gotten positive reviews - and will be released in the states later this year when the sci-fi channel's rights to the story expire.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0495596/

[Hekate]

54. I'd love to see a good Ursula LeGuin movie, or Terry Pratchett, Gaiman's American Gods...

There's a wealth of good material that if handled right could make great movie viewing.

Hekate

[Cheap_Trick]

69. Find PBS's movie "The Lathe of Heaven"

avoid A&E's shitty remake.

[sarge43]

156. Second that

Netflix has it. Enjoy.

[Occulus]

265. Ben Bova's "The Precipice" and "The Rock Rats"

Any of the "Manifold" novels by Stephen Baxter

In the fantasy realm:

Stephen King's "The Dark Tower" (film rights have been sold to JJ Abrams, I think), or maybe "Bag of Bones" (that's some of his best writing right there, and it's actually a pretty sad story)

David Eddings' "The Belgariad" and "The Mallorean"

It's too bad Terry Goodkind's "Sword of Truth" series is getting murdered on TV so very badly. "Legend of the Seeker" doesn't do it justice at all... they would have made good films.

[LooseWilly]

356. I'm not sure I agree about the Sword of Truth having made a good anything.

I read the book... several of them... and, let's face it, the book just isn't that good. It definitely has interesting points, some really interesting scenes... but overall Goodkind's prose just isn't that good. I think the tv series might actually be the best thing that could've happened with that book... because an intense Peter Jackson type of production applied to that book would've just shown the book's weaknesses way to glaringly... whereas, with the semi-crappy tv show, low production value can actually take the blame... and the occasionally brilliant bits of Goodkind's writing can actually shine.

[Occulus]

437. Hmm. He does get a bit preachy and pedantic, doesn't he?

Oh, and... skip The Pillars of Creation. It has incredibly little to do with the overall plot.

I do think, though, that Wizard's First Rule would make a great film. The others, not so much... although Temple of the Winds has potential. The emotional climax of that book is just :wow:

I blame both the writers and the producers for the crap that is Legend of the Seeker. They could have taken the major plot points from the books and ran with it, but nooooooo. They had to put the Sisters of (the) Light into the Hidden Valley Ranch instead. :puke:

I still watch it, because it's about the only quarter-decent fantasy on TV these days. I really, really wish television/cable could figure out how to do fantasy. The Xena formula just doesn't work anymore.

[LooseWilly]

446. Hehe... well, if I was watching that show for the plot

... that would've been a hell of a spoiler.

I actually found it on hulu.com... so I haven't seen that far. I can't say as I'm all that surprised though. And the Denna episode... it was fascinating to see how much torture they were willing to show... it was more than I'd expected.... but obviously nowhere near as much as Wizard's First Rule contained... and that's part of what I was talking about. I can't imagine any production being willing to face up to the portrayal of the torture in that book... and yet that was one of the most interesting aspects of that book... and so at least the low production value of the tv show is a sort of excuse for the almost inevitability of that particular detail being too difficult to put up on a screen for an audience to watch.
I can't actually remember the books by their names. My son was into the books, and I just read them to see what he was so into. Two thirds of the time, I only went on with reading them for that reason... but eventually we both agreed that the novels had turned into a soap opera, with the fight against what's his name, the dream seeker guy, dragged out into what seemed like a soap opera that would never end.
I remember, in addition to the Wizard's First Rule there was another novel where Richard is trained by the sisters of the light... and Kahlan leads armies in the Midlands... there was some interesting stuff there... but huge amounts of fluff. And repetition. Sometimes certain themes felt hamfisted, if I'd had the energy to actually do the searching, I began to suspect that Goodkind actually had a standard line to re-state the "heart jerking love doubt how can I go on?" theme which he just inserted, maybe with the phrasing slightly changed from book to book, over and over and over again...

I think I remember Temple of the Winds climax... is that the one where he's doing lots of sculpting?... That could be interesting... but I'd think that 3 novels could easily go into 2 seasons of a tv series... and any less condensation than that would just be a mistake.

Then again... Jackson had to do a hell of a lot of work to make The Lord of the Rings trilogy coherent... and those movies were a hell of a lot easier to deal with than the books.

[FSogol]

290. American Gods would be too complicated. Good book though. n/t

[Occulus]

438. It's been a while since I read it, but I think it would work as a miniseries.

NOT as a single film, though.... maybe as a duology (sp?).

Wonderful book, though, and Shadow and Mr. Wednesday would make an awesome pair of lead characters.

[moggie]

365. Yes and no

Le Guin's best work has too much depth for Hollywood, I think. Can you imagine what they'd do to the politics of The Dispossessed? Ugh.

American Gods is too sprawling for a film. It might make good, intelligent TV, though.

As for Pratchett, Discworld would transfer well, but what I'd really like to see is the rumoured Pratchett/Gaiman Good Omens directed by Terry Gilliam. Terry Gilliam! He could make that work.

[sarge43]

96. Bester's The Stars, My Destination is in early production.

Please, oh please, good casting and director.

[The Traveler]

444. Are you kidding me?

The saga of Gulliver Foyle? Oh, Jeezo man, they better not screw that up! One of the very best science fiction stories EVER. And so freakin' relevant.

Trav

[sarge43]

458. So they say at IMDB.

From your monitor to God's eyes. If the suits do to TSMD what they did to The Day the Earth Stood Still, I may go postal.

Another classic I'd love to see done well is Clarke's The City and the Stars.

[NeedleCast]

155. Ringworld!

That would be AWESOME!

Damn it, now I have to go read that book again.

[Duncan]

266. I'm with you.

I do like some of the comics hero based tripe, but good Sci-fi is sorely lacking. I want to see some Greg Egan.

[moggie]

370. Which Egan?

I loves me some Egan, but he's hardcore, and I can't see a movie making a good job of the complexity of Permutation City or Schild's Ladder. Maybe one of his short stories? In the right hands, The Moral Virologist might work.

[yodermon]

276. weren't there rumors of a Foundation movie(s)?

[FSogol]

287. how about Philip Jose Farmer's Riverworld or Zelazny's Amber Series?

Ringworld or Lucifer's Hammer would be great also.

[CrispyQ]

386. Riverworld

would flip the fundies out of their already flipped out minds.

I vote for Riverworld. }(

[roguevalley]

320. I watch all sorts of stuff but this stuff is FUN! FUN!FUN!FUN! Sue me too.

[NYC_SKP]

4. IMO, it's all a distraction: Sports, Hollywood, SUV's, Fashion, Celebrities, etc...

Pay no attention to your rights eroding or the concentration of wealth and power in fewer and fewer hands.

Look, over there, it's Wolverine/Paris Hilton/Ford Excursion!!!

[Mike Daniels]

117. Yeah, because Lord knows people can't process more than one thing at once

n/t

[roguevalley]

321. I can't understand it either, Mike. Some people think if you aren't

bleeding out your eyeballs twenty-four/seven you somehow aren't 'getting it'. I can actually do more than one thing at a time. Amazing what people piss on. Don't watch them. Don't deny other people an hour or two of fun in the midst of a sea of shit, OP. If you don't get it, fine. Its called fun.

[Webster Green]

5. I have no use for any of it..

It doesn't bother me that others enjoy it though. :P

[Manifestor_of_Light]

7. I don't understand it either.

There are lots of movies with characters I cannot care about. They happen to be violent as well.

Batman: Cartoon characters who spend all their time blow things up and threaten and kill people.

Gangster movies: People who blow things up and threaten and kill people.

Million Dollar Baby: Boxers who beat up and sometimes kill people for a living.

[WildEyedLiberal]

11. If all you got out of "Million Dollar Baby" was "boxers who beat people up"...

... then you missed the entire point of the film by a country mile. Jesus. :eyes:

[Manifestor_of_Light]

76. Yeah, I sure did miss it. So sue me.

I couldn't get worked up over people who inflict serious injury on others, even though it's voluntary with both parties. I don't think it's a sport. I think it's barbarism.

So I was unable to be sympathetic over the pulling the plug problem. And I couldn't understand what she was supposedly saying with a trach tube in her, so I turned it off.

[WildEyedLiberal]

77. Ah, I love the smell of sanctimony in the morning

:eyes: God, you and the OP are such perfect examples of why pretentious leftists are too wrapped up in themselves and their "principles" to appreciate anything artistic or creative.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

79. There are plenty of artistic things I like. Just not comic book heroes.

Did I say my tastes were better than yours? No I did not.

I said I don't understand it. Different strokes.

I am far more creative than you will ever know. And I have seen a wide variety of performing artists. And I've done a helluva lot of performing music and acting as well.

[timtom]

88. Personally, I like the Oral Interpretation of Poetry forum

here on DU...oh, wait. There isn't one.

I'm like you. It doesn't matter a whit what people find entertaining. It's simply curious.

However, I HAVE stated that the love of football in America is why we are the savage nation that we are.

And, I mean it, too.

[Mike Daniels]

122. So what's it say about "cultured" Europe that soccer fans regularly beat the shit out of each other

during the game.

[timtom]

141. Oh, pay me no mind.

It's just my opinion. Not rooted in any sort of scientific system at all.

[roguevalley]

322. list them then. I'm curious what rates over the mass media stuff

out now.

[Maru Kitteh]

411. "I am far more creative than you will ever know."

Pretentious AND egotistical with pronounced DQ tendencies. Marvelous combo you got goin' there.

[mwb970]

101. Wow. What a dumb thing to say! Is something wrong with you?

:crazy: pretentious leftists are too wrapped up in themselves and their "principles" to appreciate anything artistic or creative.

So let me get this straight, Wild Eyed One. Someone says they don't like to watch cartoonish, violent movies made for children and you say this shows an inability to appreciate anything artistic or creative. Anything! Wow. That is a truly stupid, Philistine thing to say! Biggest LOL of the morning here.

I'm sorry, this is DU. Free Republic is at http://freerepublic.com. You can be as self-righteous and out of touch as you want there. No "pretentious leftists" to bother you. And no you to bother us here!

:eyes:

[WildEyedLiberal]

302. Ah, the Godwin's Law of DU - accuse someone of being a freeper

:eyes:

ANYONE who thinks Million Dollar Baby - since that was, after all, the movie being discussed - is a "cartoonish, violent movie for children" is a moron who is too blinded by their own self-important internet Gandhi "pacifism" to actually observe the subtle layers of artistry. Million Dollar Baby is a movie about boxing the way Citizen Kane is a movie about a sled, and anyone dumb enough to reduce it to such simplicity is probably not capable of appreciating anything more subtle than Fahrenheit 9/11. Sorry if that offends you.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

355. Two different things. Cartoons and MDB.

Million Dollar Baby is NOT a cartoonish, violent movie for children.

It's violent. It's very well made and very artistic. All the performances were quite good.

However, I cannot give a damn about a woman who beats up and injures other people for money, even though it requires discipline and ambition. I don't think it's a sport. If she was training for a sport where she did NOT cause injuries, I might be able to relate to it.

The starting premise of identification with the main character is what stopped me. I refuse to identify with any kind of violence or abusive characters. I refuse to watch the beating and the bruises and the blood spurting. I think it has no more dignity than dogfighting.

Usually in movies women are stalked, beaten, tortured or killed. Million Dollar Baby was probably hailed because the woman was asserting herself and doing what she wanted to do.
I don't think a woman who wants to beat up other women in the ring is a good role model or a feminist.

So there. :eyes:

[LooseWilly]

366. So what do you think of God.

What with all the smiting, and the pillar of salting... and the killing of the first born children... and the plagues... and the tossing over of Saul because he wouldn't put a town to the sword...

Hmm, even Jesus promised to come back as the Lion.

And what about emotional scars, broken hearts, all that junk? Does that count as violence? Or do you only shy at the actual spilling of blood?

I'm actually asking this question seriously... do you really refuse to allow yourself any empathy with anything that is violent in any way?

And, if so, how many steps away from violence is far enough away for it to be ok? I mean, I assume that you have no problems with killing a carrot so that you can eat it. So a movie about a farmer would, I assume, be ok? What about a fish? Would a movie about a fisherman be ok? How about cattle? Would a movie about a rancher be ok? What about if the rancher distributed hamburgers to hungry students at a local school?... What if that brought the rancher into conflict with the local representative of Agri-business? Would that be ok?... How about if that conflict led to a hotly fought court battle? Is courtroom violence ok? What if the rancher had to employ someone to break into Agri-Business files to get incriminating evidence?... Is burglary ok, just not boxing?
And what if it was a movie set in Italy, and the rancher made salame out of his horses? Mmmm, horse salame. Would that be ok?
And what about an exterminator movie? Is killing cockroaces for a living violent?
What about Naked Lunch? If the character uses his shoe to beat a cockroach the size of a breadbox to death, is that ok? How about if it turns out that he was just hallucinating on too much roach poison, and it was actually a typewriter that he beat to death... is violence against typewriters ok?

Just curious... pacifism is just something I still can't quite get my head around.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

369. I'm an agnostic. I have nothing to do with that fantasy that is a violent God.

I will watch movies about war if they are based on a true story like Schindler's List or Defiance.

[LooseWilly]

443. Agnostic? Nothing to do with?...

You mean an Atheist? You did just call many stories from the Bible a fantasy... bad form for an Agnostic.

Hmm... you'll watch movies about war if they are based on a true story? Presumably then, you won't watch war movies that "aren't" based on a true story. In other words, real violence is ok with you, but violence that is merely an extrapolated likeliness in the context of verisimilitude in a fictional story line, that is not to be tolerated? So the story of someone who actually shot someone is ok, but the story of a fictional someone doing something, no matter how "right", if it ends up involving that someone shooting someone, then it's not ok.

That is an extremely interesting position, from my point of view. I wonder, are you also a fan of "reality tv" over "fictional tv"?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

445. You're thinking too hard.

No, I do not like reality tv.

I like Keith Olbermann, Rachel Maddow, and The Simpsons. And sometimes Family Guy if it's not too ridiculous.

[WildEyedLiberal]

450. For a pacifist, you sure could use some work in the compassion department

I get that you didn't say it was "cartoonish," but the doofus I was replying to did.

Your post is, however, an illustration of why I think most "pacifists" are full of crap. It's more often than not motivated by a sense of moral superiority rather than genuine concern for human life. Wow, look at you on your high horse, openly proclaiming that you don't give a crap when people get hurt doing things you personally disapprove of. That's different from the fundie mentality how?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

452. You're generalizing.

I did NOT say "I don't give a crap when people get hurt doing things I personally disapprove of".

I said I could not care about violence in movies.

You don't know about my charitable donations, or my being friends with people who need different kinds of help. Or anything else I do to help the community. And I won't tell you.

[WildEyedLiberal]

453. Of course I don't. I know nothing about you. This is an anonymous message board

I fail to see what your private, personal efforts have to do with what you post on DU, since - obviously - neither I nor anyone else here is privy to them. I reply to posts on DU. I replied to yours. If you don't want to be judged by random people on the internet based solely on what you post on a message board, well, I don't know what to tell you. Have a good night.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

186. Wow...you must have worked hard to only get that out of "Million Dollar Baby"

[DainBramaged]

8. Wait let me pull my sack cloth on and flagellate myself for wanting to escape

momentarily from the realities of this shitty world. :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[smalll]

16. Oh there's nothing wrong with a little well-placed escapsim,

but it used to be, such drives (among adults) resulted in a taste for Impressionist canvases, Puccini arias, early Bing Crosby, a good golf course and/or a good Martini, rather than the present craze for obscure graphic novels which, I'm sorry, your average sane/educated person cannot help but see as a sign of socially maladjusted crypto-furryism at best.

[Marr]

18. I think the words you're looking for are,

"git offa my lawn!".

You do realize that Bing Crosby was the pop culture of his day, right? And impressionists were openly mocked and ostracized by society's self-appointed arbiters of taste. That is to say, guys like yourself.

[NeedleCast]

165. Win

[villager]

25. And the fact that Europeans and Japanese read graphic novels

...on a routine basis, mixed in with wherever else they get their storytelling (in the end, it's still about sitting around the campfire) -- and have been doing so for years -- means that you've decided they were experiencing retroactive "MCF" syndrome, by your own regal decree?

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MindPilot]

175. Hmmm, kind of racist and broadbrush donchathink?

A tad nationalistic too.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

192. Racist much?

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JackDragna]

108. Eurotrash?

Are you sure you're in the right place? Only "crypto-righties," using one of your own terms, breaks out that statement. And what the hell is "crypto-furryism," anyway? Does this mean reading comic books will turn me into a sasquatch?

[MindPilot]

177. Hmmm, kind of racist and broadbrush donchathink?

and you said it twice!

[blogslut]

47. Pardon me but

Horseshit.

The masses, whether they be adults or children, have always enjoyed entertainment that would be considered pedestrian to "refined" types such as yourself.

Bing Crosby? Are you kidding? A pop singer! Puccini wasn't deemed a serious composer because he composed tunes a person could hum. Shakespeare? His plays were written for peasants!


Spare me your concepts of high art.

[Marr]

50. Yep.

The OP seems to be dropping names without knowing jack-shit about them. Sort of an ignorant man's attempt at sounding high brow. To top it off, the only entertainment he's mentioned enjoying himself is a bar stool.

Sounds about right.

[tkmorris]

71. OMG he's Cliff Claven

Good call!

[okieinpain]

136. funny. n/t.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

113. +1

[Confusious]

80. We can't all be pretentious snobs.

Besides, there's only so many painting I can see, I HATE opera, I think a guy wrote a book about wasting your life playing golf and I can't STAND gin.

And I am a average sane/educated person. Much more well adjusted then you. I don't complain about other peoples' tastes.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

392. I bet you think opera is nothing but Brunnhilde in a helmet.

That's the stereotype.

Ever seen a real opera with Supertitles? With the amazing lights and staging they use noawadays?

I did not "get" opera either until they put the English words up above the stage so I knew what was going on.

I'd recommend Puccini or Mozart. Except that Puccini did not write anything for mezzo-soprano.

I still can't stand Wagner or Richard Strauss.

I don't like golf or tennis or gin. I can't stand bing Crosby OR Frank Sinatra. Give me the passion of Judy Garland instead of "crooners".

[ProfessorGAC]

86. Bing Crosby?!?!?!?!?

And you consider yourself an arbiter of good taste? Crosby and Sinatra are two of the most overrated entertainers ever. I'm hardly going to take movie advice to someone who thinks Bing Crosby is high art.
GAC

[HamdenRice]

103. I used to think that about Sinatra until I heard an episode of "This American Life"

that explored his career. This was like in their first season. The basic arc of Sinatra's career was that he was a pop singer/teen idol.

Then his voice changed, and he was washed up. Then he audaciously decided to adjust his repertoire to his new voice and to sing jazz and interpret standards. He made series of ground breaking albums that we rarely hear today, and he was actually admired by other jazz singers. As a long time jazz fan, I have to say his albums in that period were pretty good.

And in his third phase he seemed to have lost his pitch and became that weird singer/shouter character who Joe Piscopo so accurately ridiculed.

Crosby - yuck! His life's goal seemed to be getting as much money out of as little talent and hard work as possible, and somehow he richly succeeded.

Also, I think Sinatra had a lot of support because he really was, in his weird gangsterish way, one of the main forces behind the desegregation of Vegas.

Cheers

:hi:

[jacksonian]

216. you're confusing Crosby with his movie persona

in Hollywood Bing was an insufferable "i'm so much better than anyone" jerk making the same stale jokes over and over again with Bob Hope.

Before that, during the Depression, Crosby revolutionized pop singing, taking the operetta aspects out of it and replacing it with blues phrasing. Crosby was one of the first, if not the first, to have a string of recording hits, had a hugely innovative voice and a profoud impact on all later male crooners, singers like Sinatra and Presley - you can sure hear a lot of Crosby in Presley's phrasing for example.

Sinatra was always WAY overrated as a singer. He goes up, he goes down, and without Nelson Riddle or some master composer arrainging for him he ain't doodily. His 1940's work with Axel Stordahl that established him is embarrassing today. Hell, Id rather listen to Dean Martin, for cristsakes, at least Deano enjoys singing - I never got the impression Sinatra cared a twit until really late in his career after the voice was a shambles. Sinatra, though, was a much better movie actor than Crosby or Martin for what that's worth.

In the world of pop music, however, Bing Crosby should have a face on Mt. Rushmmore.

[RufusTFirefly]

244. What jacksonian said. Crosby was a true ground-breaker

But thanks to the corruption of money, the constraints of commercialism, and the flaw of his own expanding ego, he was sanitized over time.

[JerseygirlCT]

407. LOL not to mention

apparently beating his kids... (Crosby, that is).

I could never get past the tone-deaf Sinatra. I'll take Tony Bennett any day instead, thanks!

[jgraz]

390. smalll just likes the fact that he used to beat his kids with sacks of oranges

True story.

[DainBramaged]

109. Bing Crosby and that generation of entertainment is long gone

and it isn't returning. Change or die.

[dalaigh lllama]

197. Puccini arias for good wholesome entertainment, eh?

Yes, operas are such a wonderful source for the best things in society to emulate. :rofl:

[jgraz]

391. I'm guessing smalll couldn't name a Puccini aria with a gun to his head

[malletgirl02]

425. Puccini

Yeah there is a great deal of violence and sex in Puccini. Madam Butterfly, infidelity and sucide. Tosca is even more violent, rape and a great deal of death. Not much differint than today if you think about it. Puccini was considered pop culture in his time.

[LooseWilly]

351. You seem to forget...

... many of us were not admitted to the country clubs you seem to haunt. Some of us couldn't afford them, some weren't white enough, or male enough... and some of us just plain didn't like the people that haunted those country clubs.

Ironically, you seem to be describing the 40s... and meanwhile the 30s and 40s were the times when those comic books you so detest were first developing. And, near as I can tell, they were developing as a reaction against the Bing Crosby set... So no wonder you "don't get it"... these things were specifically designed to not be gotten by the likes of you and your little country club fantasy adherents.

As for the "sign of socially maladjusted crypto-furryism at best"... well, it was the so-called 'adults' that you describe that are, at root, responsible for the 'social mal-adjustment' of their children... So it's really all their fault, for having failed as adults...
Ohh yeah, and "crypto-furryism"?... Are you really calling us all hairy gay men?... you get a lot of furryism between the golf course and the martini lounge, maybe with some Bing Crosby crooning in the background?... Where does that even come from?...

(Ohh yeah, and what were these hipsters that you so detest drinking in that bar where you were slurping your pint?... or bottle of Bud... or whatever? ... Were they, perchance, sipping martinis while discussing an art form that they've embraced after having rejected the Puccini that you would foist upon them?)

[ZombieHorde]

436. Golf and Crosby suck, X-Men are awesome.

What is not to get?

[MicaelS]

463. "Impressionist canvases???"

Some fucker got drunk or stoned and painted what he thought was a pretty picture? Right..... Some of that shit I call "chimp art". Hand a monkey some paint and he could do it.

[BR_Parkway]

97. Put that on video and I'd watch it!

I find the fact that people can obsess and be judgmental over other's choices of entertainment as flabbergasting as the OP does about what they actually choose to be entertained by.

[WildEyedLiberal]

9. I think your namecalling and ignorant dismissal say far more about you

I could write a dissertation on how philosophical, cerebral, and morally complex Star Trek is, but to you, it's just silly people in alien costumes, so why waste my breath?

I think your refusal to look past the surface and to mockingly dismiss things that you obviously have never even bothered to experience for yourself says far more about your lack of maturity than it does about anyone who is interested in them. If you were half the "adult" you claimed to be, you wouldn't feel such an overweening need to preen about your perceived sense of superiority.

[Marr]

14. Agreed- but I don't think entertainment needs to be deep to be worthwhile anyway.

Canterbury Tales certainly wasn't considered high-brow in it's day. Neither was Dickens. Or Shakespeare, for that matter. I'm a fan of the pulps, myself-- of any era. They say a lot about the times.

I remember hearing an interview with Freddy Mercury once where someone asked him what they were trying to accomplish with their music, or what it meant or something to that effect. He said 'enjoyment', in so many words. He compared his work to cotton candy, and said he wanted to people to enjoy it immensely and throw it away when they stopped enjoying it. Seems like a healthy attitude to me.

[sarge43]

99. You forgot to mention that The Canterbury Tales was written

in English, the bottom feeder's language - qual declasse.

Note to the OP: Puccini was routinely trashed by critics (still is in some circles) for using real people and themes, call girls, bohemian street people, even (gasp)cowboys. His works weren't considered 'high art' when compared to Verdi's classical themes.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WildEyedLiberal]

33. What a petulant child you are

Insults, lame generalizations, and an overly grandiose sense of faux intellectual superiority. You're either a teenager or a pathological narcissist, but either way, "grow up" is something you've clearly not managed to accomplish yourself.

[Political Heretic]

134. Small just gets drunk and then starts being a dick on purpose.

Why the mods haven't banned his drunken ass yet I will never know.

[NYC Liberal]

35. Let's start by having you list YOUR entertainment choices

What movies you like, what art, what TV shows, what music, etc.

[Touchdown]

45. The Smith didn't say, but I will, and I'm not afraid of you. I like LOST!

You making something of it?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

189. I fucking hate "Lost", but my wife loves it, and she is probably way smarter & well-read than you

:shrug:

But seriously, there is NOTHING more mature than yelling at people to "grow up" on an internet message board, because they watch a different TV show than you.

[DireStrike]

195. LOL

Author of post constructs an air-tight spiked defense, and then you throw yourself onto the spikes. Nice.

[Seldona]

315. That was rather amusing.

Had to hurt though, if she even gets it.

[EOTE]

181. I used to think that comic books were foolish when I was younger.

Same thing with Star Trek and a lot of other science fiction. I used to think that I was far too mature to indulge in such frivolities and I mocked people older than me for enjoying such simple minded entertainment. As I grew older, I realized that this entertainment wasn't nearly as simple-minded as I thought and I realized the rich and complex world that I had been missing out on. Now I find myself spending entire afternoons on Wikipedia learning the back stories of comic book characters I've missed out on. I follow comic books a lot more actively now, and some of my favorite movies from the past few years have been comic book films (Spiderman 1 & 2, Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, The Incredible Hulk and Iron Man). I saw Star Trek over the weekend and I thought it was incredible, just a joy to watch. And when I look at upcoming releases that I'm excited about, a lot of them are comic book films (The Avengers, Green Lantern and Iron Man 2 come to mind). When it comes to taste, to each his own, but to deny that there is artistic merit in this genre of film is quite foolish.

[roguevalley]

325. given that the entire Jet Propulsion Lab, half of NASA and more

scientists of all ages got hooked on science due to star trek doesn't seem to count. that we use ct scans, cell phones, motion operated doors and what the hell all because of star trek doesn't seem to matter. that people can see a future at peace and in harmony because of star trek doesn't count. Sheesh. I guess I better put on a bergman and stick my head in the oven just to be 'adult'.

[Vickers]

12. To piss you off.

Hey, fuck you!

:P

[CrownPrinceBandar]

222. +1................n/t

[LeftyMom]

13. Holy Classist Bullshit, Batman!

Maybe people just like what they like? Even, heaven forfend, upper middle class, educated people? Since apparently those of us who aren't upper middle class (even if we are educated) can be forgiven our plebeian entertainments?

:eyes:

[metapunditedgy]

15. Comic books are like tall tales or oral traditions. They tell the same stories

over and over, and over time the stories evolve and pick up some complexity/depth.

Disney movies are crap. Formulaic, trite, boring.

I'm not saying the comic-book movies are good... most of them are pretty bad. But they're based on stories that have evolved over 20+ years, so they have a little more substance than, say, "Shrek III."

Some "graphic novels" also cross-pollinate with other literary forms, which makes them a little more interesting. That doesn't usually translate well to movies, either.

[shadowknows69]

19. They are the myths of our generations

When Zeus just wouldn't cut it anymore someone had to create Superman

[Canuckistanian]

20. Well, tell us what YOU like then.

And we'll trash that. Such fun!

[Touchdown]

21. A steady diet of Schindler's Lists and Requiem For A Dreams would be suicidal.

Excellent, thought provoking films are made all the time. I have seen and loved more than my share of them. At times though, especially after a winter of pretty much anything but, our mood turns to fun, or play. You remember that word? Play?

Star Trek and Wolverine are fun, exiting films that give us pleasure and allow us to play again. Both of these films have messages (paranoia of the "other", and what it means to contribute to something greater than ones self), but they are told with fights and phaser battles instead. One doesn't need to squirm in their seats over how a nun accuses a priest of being a pedophile to be an "Adult".

[paulsby]

145. and transformers are more than meets the eye

and with megan fox, what's not to like?

[Mind_your_head]

22. Cowards .....imaging themselves as *super-heroes"......

....Just a guess. :shrug:

[smalll]

27. Cowards -- I wouldn't want to accuse them of that necessarily though --

after all, you never know if you have a hero or a coward on your hands until circumstances force the test. (And it's a rare test on most of us these days, thank God) -- I wouldn't accuse them of cowardice, just sedentary over-eating under-exercising indoor-humanity (like indoor cats) crypto furryism (amongst other issues.)

[LooseWilly]

39. Funny...

... sounds like you're describing the generation that came before the one that is the target of these movies.

I see an awful lot more over-eating, under-exercising 45+ year olds (too old to really be the target demographic of these movies) than I see of the 30-44 age range. Hmm... maybe the "hero" image that my generation found so fascinating was in part a negative reaction to the generation before us... the self-righteous types who turned to the newly evolving sedentary cubicle life for security... cementing that lifestyle as the "norm" for all discussions of the middle class today... as those who are discussing the middle class are by and large of the generation before these interests caught a generation's popular imagination...

[Mind_your_head]

63. True....heroes often come from the "least likely places"

Have I played into your unpaid "set-up" well?

[Lerkfish]

227. wow, you are a wonderful human being

without a judgmental bone in your body.

You are open minded to differences between people and you don't make snap judgements of people you've never met.

I bet you're also the center of attention at all the parties you get invited to because you make those around you feel so special and valued.

[TheWatcher]

284. DISAPPOINTING, MYH.

I expect better from you than this.

[rpannier]

23. And what movies should we be 'abuzz' over???

Most of those movies are well made and entertaining.

Because you don't enjoy them or find them entertaining doesn't mean others don't.

Your dismissive comment..."all us normals..." sums up your sanctimonious whining better than any other line in your silly, shining, sniveling post.

[Touchdown]

24. And by the way.... It's light sabEr

No hyphen. The French haven't co-opted Star Wars yet.:evilgrin:

[fujiyama]

26. Ever read Joseph Campbell and the Heroes' Journey?

These are the new myths and the last generation or so relate to these characters on some level or the other. In a way to many fans out there, these characters and stories play a more significant lives than the myths of old - and by that I mean organized religion.

So you can laugh and mock them all you want, but they provide a sense of community for thousands of "geeks" out there. The stories have all the elements of all legendary tales and while they don't meet the standards of classical standards of literature, the story arcs and character developments are culturally significant, and on some levels profound (such as Star Trek revolutionizing what can and cannot be addressed on prime time television about sex and race).

[Lorien]

64. Well before his/ her time

the poster pretty much outed themselves as a self important teen upthread. Hopefully when he/ she is mature enough they'll be ready to pick up Campbell-or at least the Moyers DVD. ;-)

[Yukari Yakumo]

30. Wow. This is a royally stupid post.

Here, have some punishment.

[smalll]

36. LOL -- "anime" -- I think that's what it's called, isn't it?

Or "manga" (I can never keep those straight.)

Yeah, civilization isn't going through a world-historical taste crash. You just keep telling yourself that, dear. :eyes:

[Yukari Yakumo]

41. You're just trolling everyone to get TS'd, aren't you?

Oh, and more punishment.

[proteus_lives]

268. Great Pic!

As a anime fan I echo your punishment.

This guy, if there was ever anyone begging for a Jutsu or a Bankai.....

:)

[LooseWilly]

48. Ok, put up or shut up already.

"Yeah, civilization isn't going through a world-historical taste crash"... Really? Tell me then, what was the "good taste" by which you are making your judgements?

Or you can save us all some time, by telling me to just get off your lawn already...

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

139. Bing Crosby.

:rofl:

[keroro gunsou]

373. keeping it simple for you:

manga are the comics. you know, the non-moving ones

anime is the animated one.

aho.

[Touchdown]

31. No matter how old and wise you get, it's important to keep a smalll mind.

[Mojambo]

70. That's exactly what's going on with this tool. n/t

[Touchdown]

84. That's why I spelt it with three els

;)

[Aethertek]

32. Irony

Yes isn't terrible the way people will waste their time on such useless diversions such as that.
Really a waste of human potential, when they could be sitting their fat ass on a bar stool slugging down some brew & bitching about the "abnormals", now there is some intellectually stimulating productive behavior.

"Humans, god love em cause nobody else will"
Kevin~

[Touchdown]

40. Or the "enlightened people" on DU who binge on MSNBC

... listening to Shout shows where everybody talks over each other and the commercial break makes sure nothing ever gets resolved, no lies disproved, and no satisfying information disseminated. Just Schuster and Matthews yelling at people we don't like. How cerebral.

[LooseWilly]

34. I will now endeavor to give you several answers.

Firstly... those comic books and the attendant characters are what us 30-ish year olds grew up on... and demographically speaking, we are finally the target market for the movie makers... in other words, my generation had to put up with the shit that the generation before us (the boomers I guess) had a taste for being the big thing in the market place for the last 20 years... now it's time for everyone older and everyone younger to eat the shit we had to, and deal with the fact that the entertainment complex is now looking to get our dollars. You had the Natural now you have to deal with the X-Men.

Ok, industry demographics aside, an ADULT who is in any way capable of critical thought can analyze the genre of comic books, for example your example of Bat Man, in the same way that any other form of literature can be examined. From Sophocles, to Shakespeare, to Dickens, to Mark Twain, to Samuel Beckett, to Frank Miller. The fact that you judge it to be "adolescent follies", despite the fact that you were overhearing a discussion of the evolution of a character in relation to the social milieu in which the interpretations of said character were being made, speaks to your complete lack of open mindedness regarding the literary vehicles by which literary/cinematic interpretations of cultural issues of the day are explored from generation to generation.

You, sir, are out of touch with the currently fashionable target demographic of the entertainment industry... and you gripe about it like an old man yelling at kids to get off his lawn...

If you wanted to understand a discussion of "Waiting for Godot", you would need to see the play and... watch it with an open and curious mind. If you want to understand a discussion of the new Bat Man movies, you need to watch them with an open and curious mind. If you can't do that... then you will never understand... either one.

Calling them "pre-pubescent super-heros"... which actually should be "pre-pubescent super-heroes" (if you are going to try to go with a superiority attitude, you should at least watch your spelling) is no different, judgmental ass-wise, than my saying that "baseball is a waste of time and space, and all those pre-pubescent wanna be jocks are just stupid 'roiders that should all go out and get real jobs... and who cares about those tight wearing idiots swinging wood at balls anyway?" I may feel that way personally (I do), but I understand that there was a time when, for some people, sports like that seemed relevant. And I could say the same thing about baseball commentators that you say about the current generation of film critics...

And by the way, the current generation of film critics is also of the generation that grew up on these comic books... we all depended on them as an alternative to baseball, and shit like "the Dukes of Hazzard", and "30 Something", and piles of other tripe that the generation before us was presented with by their peers when they were the entertainment industry's target demographic.

You're now officially old. Cope with it.

[Greyskye]

371. Well played.

+1

[mr blur]

37. "ordering a beer up at the bar"- why the hell do adults care about this shit?

Oh, that's how you like to relax. Got it.

[GaYellowDawg]

38. Because it's fun for them.

Just because you don't approve doesn't mean they don't. Relax and let people enjoy themselves. Sheesh.

[proteus_lives]

43. smalll is right.

Wow, I've been a lurker at DU for years but I never thought I'd join but your post was the straw that broke this camel's back.

I'm a 25-year old man who has collected comics since he was six, a devoted sci-fi fan, anime fan, con attendee and fanboy. I was angry when I first read your post but now I figure what's the point of anger? You obviously don't get it and you're lashing out because you don't understand.

Comics and other forms of fandom are more then just fun escapism. They are art forms and genres. Adults consume them, adults write/draw and profit from them. Do you think kids buy thousands of issues a week?

"What does this say about our culture that otherwise putatively smart dudes obsess about such adolescent follies?"

Well, I suggest you read Watchmen, Red Son, Transmetroplitan, Miracleman, 300 and many others. These are anything but adolescent follies. (I could suggest a more complete list if you like.) Don't be put off by the medium. They can be as powerful as a prose novel, painting or serious film.

I'm also a 25-year old man who is a tax-payer, a employee, a freelance worker, a Democrat, a college graduate, a friend, a brother, a son, an uncle. I'm a lot of others things but rest assured, a fanboy is high on the list!

I have a friend who is a small-business owner and husband yet he spend at least one night a week hunched over a Warhammer table.
I have a friend who is pre-med and loves elves. She's read anything with elves in it.
I have a boss who has a bigger comic collection then I do. (Trust me, that's saying something!)
I have a friend who dresses up like a storm trooper.
I have a friend and she makes the most wonderful sci-fi costumes.
And on and on.

Trust me, it's no different then following a sports team, collecting artwork or first editions of Tolstoy. Collecting and hobbies are a great part of life.

Sorry if this long-winded for a first-time poster. Glad to be here on DU!

[LooseWilly]

53. Welcome...

... fellow geek... :)

[proteus_lives]

256. Geeks Unite!

Thank you!

(Nudges pocket protector in secret Nerd greeting.)

[martymar64]

89. I'll let Ogre speak for me

Just kidding, welcome to DU! :toast:

[proteus_lives]

258. Just thinking about this movie.

I was thinking about this movie while writing my post!

One of the all-time 80's greats!

The OP is such an Alpha Beta!

"I thought I was looking at one of my mother's old douchebags but that's back in Ohio."

[Fumesucker]

95. Welcome to DU..

Well said and I hope to hear more from you.

[Canuckistanian]

104. Welcome to DU!

:toast:
:hi:

Nice rant!

[JackDragna]

120. Welcome to our little slice of hell.

Glad to have you burn with the rest of us uncouth, uncultured heathens.

[Phoonzang]

128. A hearty welcome to DU

I was just going to use my first "ignore" after 4 years on DU, but your post made me feel better.

[bigwillq]

129. Hello.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[sarge43]

144. Welcome to DU where the fun never stops. n/t

[myrna minx]

146. Welcome to DU, fellow nerd!

:hi:

[lumberjack_jeff]

152. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[IdaBriggs]

217. Beautiful first time post -- WELCOME! nt

[proteus_lives]

260. "Waves Back"

Thank you so much! Everyone is being so nice!

[ThomCat]

236. Welcome out of Lurkerdom.

Congratulations on finally posting. :)

[Mythsaje]

238. Welcome to DU.

This person's issue seems to be that the geeks he liked to pick on in grade school have now taken over the world and he is just pissed off as all hell about it.

:D

[DainBramaged]

241. Hunched over a Warhammer table

a real man in my book, welcome to DU.

[proteus_lives]

263. Thanks!

My friend thanks you too. Now that his wife is now making him move all his tables, figures and stations down to the basement!

[DainBramaged]

291. Have CASES of Warhammer going back to the early 90's. to present

Haven't played in 6 months but play Age of Reckoning on line.

[proteus_lives]

348. My friend is the same.

Yeah, he plays tabletop, cards and online. Never got into it myself. I was a Battletech man back in the day.

[nadinbrzezinski]

368. Get the wife into the game

Oh wait, in this house I not only play... Warhammer, Space Marines, I guard, hubby runs a Wagh... but we also play Flames of War...Germans, and Americans and one of these days I need to get to my Poles

We used to do Tech, don't ask long story. I also write science fiction and produce my own game... shameless plug... www.deistgames.com

[proteus_lives]

418. He tries!

She'll play a few tabletop games but has always shied away from the more involved stuff.

I'll check out the site.

I haven't really been into since BT and I stopped when they switched over to Dark Ages.

[nadinbrzezinski]

442. Well if all she does is play a few table top

oh never mind. I got deeply in it... as you can see. As to Tech, long story

Suffice it to say that if anybody wants to write fiction, game companies in the US are not the way to go

[DainBramaged]

383. It is so intense. And it precluded the age of computers with great stories

and strategy. It is a billion dollar + business.

[redqueen]

247. Welcome to DU!

Loved your first post. :applause:

[proteus_lives]

264. Thank You!

I love your screen name BTW. It's very cool!

[redqueen]

271. Thanks!

It's based on the theory of evolutionary systems though... not the character. Hope that's not too disappointing. :)

[proteus_lives]

347. Not at all!

Still very bad-ass.

(I will admit, the character is the first thing I thought of. ;))

[Iggo]

269. Vilkomin.

:P

[nadinbrzezinski]

278. Welcome to DU

[Rob H.]

285. Hail, fellow nerd!

Welcome! :hi:

...he spend at least one night a week hunched over a Warhammer table.

I have a friend like that, too, and he has two Master's degrees and just got his doctorate last year. He's also into dice and paper RPGs, comic books, and introduced me to first-person shooter videogames years ago when the original "Castle Wolfenstein" came out. (I used to collect comic books years ago and still have a small collection, myself.)

[WildEyedLiberal]

309. You rock, dude

And welcome to DU :thumbsup:

[Seldona]

326. Welcome to DU!

That is a great first time post.

:)

[roguevalley]

331. welcome, proteus. I remember the first ep of star trek, the salt

monster-mccoy one. It still rings my bell, the amazing possibilities of it. some people will never learn.

[proteus_lives]

346. Thanks!

What great pic! It reminds me of my Grandma's old dog.

[proteus_lives]

419. For me it was the first couple eps of NextGen.

I was about six and I saw the show and it was one of the first things to take my breath away.

I realized early on the theme of Star Trek. "We can envolve, we can be better." It hit me like a lightning bolt.

[keroro gunsou]

374. welcome

and not to be a come down to the noob here but colossus fragged proteus many issues ago... sorry dude. :evilgrin:

[proteus_lives]

422. A point to you!

But he has returned. He's one half of Proteus/Morph and is a member of the eXiles.

[keroro gunsou]

464. techincally

but in 616 continuity, he's still dead jim.

[proteus_lives]

466. Hmm, I have wondered about that.

Yeah, he's techinally Proteus of Earth-58163. My fanwank (because Proteus is one of my all-time favorite x-characters) is that Proteus wasn't dead when Wanda changed reality. He was alive after the New Warriors/X-Factor/New Mutants "Kings of Pain" storyline. He had merged with Piecemeal and was destroyed-not dead. As an energy being he has a very high survival quotient. My theory is that Proteus-616 became Proteus-58163.
Of course the argument is, is House of M it's own ongoing reality or just a temporary off-shoot of 616?

[slutticus]

404. Awesome!

took the words right out of my fingers....

[JerseygirlCT]

408. I noticed that the list of courses offered at my son's school

included a course on graphic novels.

Not my thing, but I'd say that's some indication that as literature, there's cause to look at them.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

429. Welcome

Great reply!

[omega minimo]

44. Because corporations bought all media and have killed new ideas to resell the old ones they own

[bottomtheweaver]

111. Now that's an answer.

Best explanation I've heard because frankly I don't get it either.

[omega minimo]

289. which began same time as first "Blockbuster" "Star Wars" and its comics style Sci Fi franchise

:hi:

[Touchdown]

361. Jaws. Two years before SW.

:hi:

[TZ]

451. Even better!

Anyone who likes it is a corporate sell-out.glad you are here to tell us what we should and shouldn't like.Where would we be without you to think for us...:sarcasm:

[omega minimo]

461. Don't project your misunderstandings and hatred on me.

:evilfrown:

[bananas]

46. Shapespeare, Beethoven, Picasso, etc -- why the hell do adults care about this shit?

:popcorn:

[LooseWilly]

57. Heh...

don't let smalll get you down on the old timer shit. Well, beethoven I can do without... but Shakespeare and Picasso are alright. Or, at least their work is... rumor has it they were both pretty much assholes... especially Picasso (Circle Jerk song not withstanding...)

[paulsby]

148. and then there's the whole

cs lewis true myth thang.

myths are important.

[Hekate]

49. "I have abandoned my search for reality. I am now looking for a good fantasy." Ashleigh Brilliant

Hurts you? :shrug:

Hekate

[frustrated_lefty]

51. Such vitriol!

Those comics helped me aspire to better things as a young boy surrounded by drug addicts and alcoholics. I enjoy seeing those plots finally put to film, and hope the tales inspire other young children to find their better selves.

For yourself, if the movies mean NOTHING to you....don't watch them. It's not like anyone makes you watch them?

[Cheap_Trick]

52. If you don't like it, DON'T GO SEE IT.

But you don't need to be such a dismssive ass about it.

Throw about all the big words you want, it doesn't make you any smarter.

"us normals"?

whatadick.

[Liberal_in_LA]

55. agreed. You got too far when you trash star trek!

[Cheap_Trick]

56. His DU name "small" describes many a thing about him, I suspect.

:rofl:

[RufusTFirefly]

224. Good point. But it's kind of like the lie that flight attendants tell you

You know the one: "We realize you have a choice in air travel."

I live in an absolutely wonderful place for foreign and independent movies, but I am appalled when traveling throughout the country at just how limited the movie choices are for most Americans. The same half dozen movies are on every screen. There's no real latitude or variety. If you crave entertainment and all you have to choose from is blockbusters, it's only natural that you will eventually develop a taste for them and be unaware of what you might be missing. I think expensive, special effects laden movies aimed at teenage boys are just fine. I just wish that moviegoers had more of a choice though.

[Cheap_Trick]

58. "small", you need a nice big glass of

Jane Austin's "Shut the Fuck Up"

[smalll]

61. That's "Austen" dear. /nt

[tuvor]

66. My pet peeve: someone pedantic about spelling who can't spell himself.

Check the end of your OP. That should be "heroes"...dear.

[Cheap_Trick]

67. Ouch. n/t

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

191. +1

[Jim Sagle]

59. You're right. Don't let them roll you into retracting what you posted.

Year after year since the mid 70s, the average film has gotten louder, dumber, and phonier - electronic Reagan/Bushism cranked out to fry our collective brains.

[roguevalley]

334. yeah. I think of Bush/Cheney/Reagan first when I think of star trek.

:sarcasm:

[Jim Sagle]

387. A little more conversation and a little less action, please.

[Clintonista2]

60. Yikes!

You need to be medicated.

[Lorien]

62. This will help explain it to you:

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/stuart_brown_says_play_is_more_than_fun_it_s_vital.html

"Play" is vital to human growth at any age, and fantasy is part of play. Employing the imagination has countless benefits. Those who are unable to do this suffer socially and physically. American culture discourages adult play outside of sex, sports, and popular entertainment, and this makes us crave it all the more.

[BzaDem]

65. Folks, don't feed the trolls...

[Mojambo]

68. Kindly fuck off.

This material has been stigmatized for decades by narrow minded douchebags like you.

[BlooInBloo]

72. What a weird post.

[H2O Man]

90. "

[REP]

73. So ... you were at a bar, drinking, and you're bashing others for their interests.

Pot. Kettle. Oh, you've already met?

[Cheap_Trick]

74. A few juvenile idiots who like Star Trek include:

Colin Powell
The Dalai Lama
Dr. Mae Jamieson
Stephen Hawking
Neil Armstrong
Al Gore
Barack Obama
Isaac Asimov
John Glenn
Sally Ride
Sir Richard Branson
the list goes on.....

But WTF do they know, these otherwise "putatively smart" people?

[Touchdown]

85. And my friend who grew up reading X-Men

She's a Mensa.

[Marr]

208. The first time I saw Obama, I told my friend I didn't think this country was ready to elect a

Vulcan.

[FrenchieCat]

75. Sounds like your ass is just getting old......

and you now have entered into the world of Bah-Humbugness.

I just saw Star Trek. Took me back to the days I used to watch the show syndicated on my local channel back in the 70s. It helped me learn how to speak English.

Who couldn't love this guy? The original Captain Christopher Pike (the late Jeffrey Hunter).



My first television crush! I was in love with his eyes!
I didn't know he had died till after I had already fallen for him.
Him and Elvis were my superstars!


I've always been a repressed trekie, but now, I'm outing myself.

[Toucano]

78. Amen

While a fantasy or superhero movie can have important artistic and thematic elements, sometimes it appears our society is only capable or interested in exploring such elements when disguised as fantasy.

We do seem to be becoming ever more juvenilized.

Worse than the superhero movies, however, are the adolescent comedies featuring 40 year old characters (most Will Ferrell pictures, for example).

[JonLP24]

83. I loved 'Stranger then Fiction'

I also enjoyed Talledega Nights, Old School, and Anchorman. However I see your point for the most part as I can't stand movies such as 'Blades of Glory', Night at the Roxbury, and Elf.

However I'm not the most objective person on this subject considering comedies are my favorite genre, I also enjoy dramas with comedy and the only way I'll watch a horror movie is if it is funny.

[paulsby]

153. elf?

elf was frigging hilarious.

it also introduced me to the 4 food groups

and the "you're sitting on a throne of lies" cracks me up...

Buddy sees the mail room for the first time]
Buddy: It's just like Santa's workshop! Except it smells like mushrooms... and everyone looks like they wanna hurt me...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: Sounds like somebody needs to sing a Christmas Carol.
Jovie: No way.
Buddy: The best way to spread Christmas Cheer, is singing loud for all to hear.
Jovie: Thanks, but I don't sing.
Buddy: Oh, well, it's just like talking, except longer and louder, and you move your voice up and down.
Jovie: I *can* sing, I just choose *not* to sing. Especially in front of other people.
Buddy: If you can sing alone, you sing in front of other people. There's no difference.
Jovie: Actually, there's a BIG difference.
Buddy: No there's not. Wait...

Buddy: I'm singing/I'm in a store/and I'm siiiiiingiiiiing!/I'm in a store/and I'm siiiiiingiiiiing!
Gimbel's Manager: HEY! There's no singin' in the North Pole!
Buddy: Yes there is!
Gimbel's Manager: No there's not!
Buddy: We sing all the time!
Gimbel's Manager: No you don't!
Buddy: Especially when we build toys!

Buddy: See?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: We elves try to stick to the four main food groups: candy, candy canes, candy corns and syrup.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miles Finch: No tomatoes. Too vulnerable. Kids, they're already vulnerable.
Walter: See, I told you guys. I told them the same thing...
Miles Finch: And no farms. Everyone's pushing small town rural. A farm book would just be white noise.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: What about santa's cookies? I suppose parents eat those too?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Santa: That's another thing... Buddy you should know that your father... he's on the naughty list.
Buddy: Nooooo!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Puffin: Hey Buddy wanna pick some snowberries?
Buddy: Not now Arctic Puffin!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: Wow, you're fast. I'm glad I caught up to you. I waited 5 hours for you. Why is your coat so big? So, good news - I saw a dog today. Have you seen a dog? You probably have. How was school? Was it fun? Did you get a lot of homework? Huh? Do you have any friends? Do you have a best friend? Does he have a big coat, too?...
Michael: - Go away !

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gimbel's Manager: This, is the North Pole.
Buddy: No it isn't.
Gimbel's Manager: Yes it is.
Buddy: No it isn't.
Gimbel's Manager: Yes it is!
Buddy: No it isn't! Where's the snow?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gimbel's Manager: Why are you smiling like that?
Buddy: I just like to smile, smiling's my favorite

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Walter: Who sent this Christmas Gram?
Buddy: What's a Christmas Gram? I want one!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: Who the heck are you?
Gimbel's Santa: What are you talkin' about? I'm Santa Claus.
Buddy: No, you're not.
Gimbel's Santa: Uh, why of course I am! Ho, ho, ho, ho, ho.
Buddy: Well, if you're Santa, what song did I sing for you on your birthday this year?
Gimbel's Santa: Um, Happy Birthday of course. Ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho. How old are you son?
Kid with Santa: Four.
Gimbel's Santa: You're a big boy. What's your name?
Kid with Santa: Paul.
Gimbel's Santa: Now what can I get you for Christmas?
Buddy: Don't tell him what you want, he's a liar.
Gimbel's Santa: Let the kid talk.
Buddy: You disgust me! How can you live with yourself?
Gimbel's Santa: Just cool it, Zippy.
Buddy: You sit on a throne of lies.
Gimbel's Santa: Look, I'm not kiddin'.
Buddy: You're a fake.
Gimbel's Santa: I'm a fake?
Buddy: Yes!
Gimbel's Santa: How'd you like to be dead, huh? Ho, ho, just kidding.
Buddy: You stink.
Gimbel's Santa: I think you're gonna have a good Christmas, all right.
Buddy: You smell like beef and cheese, you don't smell like Santa.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gimbel's Manager: 6-inch ribbon curls honey.
Jovie: That's impossible.
Gimbel's Manager: 6 INCHES!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: Francisco! That's fun to say! Francisco... Frannncisco... Franciscooo...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: Did you have to borrow a reindeer to get down here?
Miles Finch: Hey, jackweed, I get more action in a week than you've had in your entire life. I've got houses in L.A., Paris and Vail. In each one, a 70 inch plasma screen. So I suggest you wipe that stupid smile off your face before I come over there and SMACK it off! You feeling strong, my friend? Call me elf one more time.
Buddy: He's an angry elf.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Emily: Oh, that's good.
Buddy: Good?
Emily: Good.
Buddy: Good!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael: Whoa. Where did you say you were from again?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: Did you hear that?
Michael: You're so weird.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: Hi!
Deb: Hi!
Buddy: Do you remember me?
Deb: I do! I didn't recognize you!
Buddy: I know I'm in work clothes!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nun: But the children love the books!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Walter: I think we should call security.
Deb: Good idea.
Buddy: I like to whisper too!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: You sit on a throne of lies!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Santa: I've been to New York thousands of times.
Buddy: Really?
Santa: Mm-hmm.
Buddy: What's it like?
Santa: Well, there are some things you should know. First off, you see gum on the street, leave it there. It isn't free candy.
Buddy: Oh.
Santa: Second, there are, like, thirty Ray's Pizzas. They all claim to be the original. But the real one's on 11th. And if you see a sign that says "Peep Show", that doesn't mean that they're letting you look at the new toys before Christmas.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: Actually, I'm a human, but I was raised by elves.
Carolyn: I'm a human... raised by humans.
Buddy: Cool.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Emily: You like sugar, huh?
Buddy: Is there sugar in syrup?
Emily: Yes.
Buddy: Then YES!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: You stink. You smell like beef and cheese! You don't smell like Santa.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: I just like to smile! Smiling's my favorite.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: Have you seen these toilets? They're GINORMOUS!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Buddy: Did you hear that?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: Watch out, the yellow ones don't stop!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Elf Teacher: Now, before we learn how to build the latest in extreme graphic chipset processors, let's recite the code of the elves, shall we?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Buddy: It looks like a Christmas tree.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gimbel's Manager: There's no singing in the North Pole.
Buddy: Yes there is.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: SANTA! OH MY GOD! SANTA'S COMING! I KNOW HIM! I KNOW HIM!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carolyn: Thanks Buddy!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jovie: You missed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jovie: How come you were in the women's locker room this morning?
Buddy: I heard you singing.
Jovie: Are you sure it had nothing to do with the fact that I was naked in the shower?
Buddy: I didn't know you were naked.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: It's just nice to meet another human that shares my affinity for elf culture.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: I thought maybe we could make ginger bread houses, and eat cookie dough, and go ice skating, and maybe even hold hands.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: I passed through the seven levels of the Candy Cane forest, through the sea of swirly twirly gum drops, and then I walked through the Lincoln Tunnel.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: First we'll make snow angels for a two hours, then we'll go ice skating, then we'll eat a whole roll of Tollhouse Cookiedough as fast as we can, and then we'll snuggle.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: Can I listen to your necklace?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Buddy: You did it! Congratulations! World's best cup of coffee! Great job, everybody! It's great to be here.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: The best way to spread Christmas cheer is singing loud for all to hear.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: I'm a cotton-headed ninny-muggins.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: "I'm sorry I ruined your lives, and crammed eleven cookies into the VCR."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Buddy: He's an *angry* elf!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Walter: What do you want? Some money?
Buddy: No! I just wanted to meet you and thought maybe you might want to meet me.
Walter: Who wouldn't wanna meet you?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: SON of a NUTcracker!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Walter: You get the hell out of here.
Buddy: Where do you want me to go?
Walter: I don't care where you go. I don't care that you're an elf! I don't care that you're nuts! I don't care that you're my son! Get out of my life! Now!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miles Finch: Call me an elf.
Buddy: You're an elf!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leon the Snowman: Why the long face, Buddy?
Buddy: It seems I'm not an elf.
Leon the Snowman: Of course you're not an elf. You're six-foot-three and had a beard since you were fifteen.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Papa Elf: Oh, hello. You're, uh, you're probably here about the story. Elves love to tell stories. I-I'll bet you didn't know that about elves. There's, uh, probably a lot of things you didn't know about elves. Another, another interesting, uh, elfism, uh, there are only three jobs available to an elf. The first is making shoes at night while, you know, while the old cobbler sleeps.
Disgruntled Cobbler Elf: Lazy bum! Couldn't even make a clog!
Papa Elf: You can bake cookies in a tree. As you can imagine, it's, uh, dangerous having an oven in an oak tree during the dry season. But the third job, some call it, uh, "the show" or "the big dance," it's the profession that every elf aspires to. And that is to build toys in Santa's workshop.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: i love you. i love you! I LOVE YOU!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: That's shocking!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: I am a cotton-headed ninnymoggins!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leon the Snowman: By the way don't eat the yellow snow.
Buddy: Oh, I know that.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: Does somebody need a hug?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: Oh, I forgot to give you a hug.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gimbel's Manager: Make work your favorite. That's your new favorite.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Papa Elf: Come here, little one. Poppy wants to see you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: Sorry, sorry. I think your car is pretty.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Emily: We can't just throw him out in the snow.
Walter: Why not? He loves the snow. He's told me 15 times.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: What's a Christmas Gram? I want one!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eugene: What about this: a tribe of asparagus children, but they're self-conscious about the way their pee smells.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: Good news! I saw a dog today!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Santa: Oh no, it's The Central Park Rangers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: I think you're really beautiful and I feel really warm when I'm around you and my tongue swells up.

Buddy: So... do you wanna eat food?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gimbel's Manager: Hey guys, you seen the place? Pretty good, they must have brought in a professional. I dunno why, but someone's gunning for my job. But look, let's stick together on this. If you get wind of anything, call me on my radio. Channel three, code word is "Santa's got a brand new bag".

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Santa: I'm getting too old for this.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fulton: Even if those two pages were in there, the book still would have sucked.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buddy: Deb, you have such a pretty face, you should be on a Christmas card!
Deb: Oh, you just made my day!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Elf: It's okay, Buddy. Just how many Etch-A-Sketches did you make?
Buddy: I made... 85.
Elf: 85. Well, that puts you... 915 off the pace.
Buddy: Why don't you just say it? I'm the worst toy-maker in the world. I'm a Cotton-Headed Ninnymuggins!

[JonLP24]

163. Now that you mention it, it is funny

It's been a few years and I was trying to think of Farrell movies that I liked and disliked off the top of my head. However, you can never convince me Blades of Glory was funny. :hi:

[paulsby]

167. i agree on blades of glory

THAT sucked.

one more time: You're sitting on a throne of lies!

that cracks me up. every time.

elf also is truly a family movie. appeals to all ages.

[Toucano]

252. Elf is a classic, I think. n-t

[roguevalley]

335. DAMN! someone likes 'elf'. I lean myself towards Lord of the Rings ;)

[Toucano]

251. That's why I said most. "Stranger Than Fiction" is great.

He only acted in that one, however.

Talledega Nights, Step Brothers, Anchorman, and Night At the Roxbury are more the type I was referring to. They are entertaining, but there is sort of one note being played over and over again.

[Lucian]

81. Because action films are awesome.

Some of us like to take a break from academia once in a while and entertain ourselves.

God forbid if people are talking about an action movie at a bar! :o

:eyes:

[JonLP24]

82. I never liked or payed attention to comic books or cartoons

But I enjoyed the Superman and Batman movies. I haven't seen the latest Batman movie. Hell, I even enjoyed the old batman show. BANG! POW! More for laughs then actual entertainment

I guess give it a try if you never watched it.

[WeDidIt]

87. Nostalgia

They make movies about many characters many of us remember fondly from our childhood of comic book reading.

The scripts, cinematography, special effects, acting, plotlines, etc. are so good that the movies end up being enjoyed by a wide range of people who may have never read comic books as a child.

[martymar64]

92. Why is other peoples' tastes in films making you so upset?

Are you stuck in a town with only one theater and you're forced to watch these films because there is nothing else around? There are plenty of other films being made every year in other genres. Some of them are woefully undermarketed, but they are out there if you care to look for them.

But if this is about just you being upset about other people liking entertainment that you consider lowbrow, then nobody can help you with that. People like what they like, you can only control what you like or dislike. Stop worrying about other peoples' preferences.

[eShirl]

93. why you lumping science fiction in with comic books?

why, santa? why?

[JackRiddler]

137. One's a field (or genre), the other's a medium, and the medium can carry the genre...

but never mind. It's the special snob who reads Rocketship Galileo and looks down on Watchmen.

[eShirl]

201. I was being silly, silly

whoosh

[JackRiddler]

234. Ah, me too.

You think I can help it?

;)

[Bluzmann57]

94. Entertainment

Nothing wrong with being entertained. Life can be tough, so sometimes it's nice to escape for a couple of hours with a movie, book, sporting event, or something else. Just because an individual enjoys Batman, etc. that doesn't make them a bad person. Just one who enjoys escapism likely.

[mwb970]

98. Wow. I was going to say I agree, but now I won't.

The orthodoxy here appears to be near 100%. You might as well have gone on Free Republic and started a thread titled "What's so great about Sarah Palin?"

My personal preference is to avoid cartoonish movies (including actual cartoons) that appear aimed at middle-school students. But hey, that's me. To each his own.

:eyes:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

116. There's a huge difference between "I don't care for "cartoonish" movies" and "What's with all these

losers who won't grow up and appreciate real entertainment?"

[JackDragna]

125. Oh no! Someone might CRITICIZE you!

On the internet, of all places! It's like, this might be some type of, uh, forum, where people comment on the news of the day and on the ideas of others!

Besides, the OP's post was hardly criticizing adults for going to see "Over the Hedge." It took potshots at people engaging in cultural activities not nearly as vapid or shallow as the OP would like people to believe.

[mwb970]

160. There's a big difference between "criticizing" and "flaming".

I am seeing a lot of flaming on this thread. It's daunting to express a contrary view in the face of dozens of very intense posts saying the exact opposite.

That's all I meant.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

188. Because the OP is flamey. Post a flamey OP calling people who enjoy comics abnormal...get a flamey

response.

[HamdenRice]

100. Why do adults care about ancient Danish princes (Hamlet) or exiled wizards (The Tempest)

and their monster slaves?

We've always told ourselves fantastical fictional stories.

[bottomtheweaver]

112. Exiled Milanese Dukes

if you want to get technical.

[HamdenRice]

119. Exiled Milanese Dukes with magical powers

I read it a long time ago, but that was a major part of the plot, no? Hence Ariel and Caliban.

[bottomtheweaver]

124. Yep a student of the "liberal arts," but for the sake of parallelism with Hamlet

Prospero was the once and future Duke of Milan. His magical powers are politely euphemized and then at the end abjured, such being the nature of entertainment.

[sarge43]

131. As pointed out by Captain Picard, Prospero also represented

the cultural transition from the Middle Ages to the Renaissance.

OMG, a liberal arts reference in a Trek episode. Mercy, mercy.

There's the Darmok episode which used the Gilgamesh epic as a story line. In case the OP is still around, that is, so far, the oldest story in our literature. It tells of violence, monsters, sex, all that tacky stuff.

[roguevalley]

337. his copy of shakespeare on the ship was a very old copy lent to the

show for the picard character. :)

RV, unabashed and unashamed lifelong trekker.

[sarge43]

342. Ah. Didn't know that.

That must have thrilled Stewart down to his toes.

I can't say lifelong, but I've trekked all its life.

[melm00se]

102. shocking...

I say shocking all this new fixation on entertainment. Isn't it far better to stay fixated on the problems of the USA ad infinitum? never getting/taking a break?

:sarcasm:

This is nothing new...historically, movie attendance increased during down economic times as people are trying to escape from the drumbeat of bad news.

[sarge43]

106. In fact, this is a DU summer ritual.

A popular, money making SF or fantasy flick hits the Octoplex; most DUers like it or not dislike it.

There's some threads, some snarky or insightful comments and then as sure as black flies and mosquitoes, someone starts a thread like this one. Horrors -- low class money wasting brain junk food and The Fall of Western Civilization As We Know It.

Same thing happened last year when The Dark Knight came out.

It has a certain entertainment value, but nothing to take seriously.

[distantearlywarning]

105. This is one of the worst posts I've ever read on DU

I wish I could anti-recommend it.

Two thumbs down, dude, seriously. And who pissed in your Wheaties this morning? :shrug:

[Forkboy]

246. You kidding? This is easily one of small's best posts ever!

Which gives you an idea of the quality involved in the rest of them. ;)

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

261. You're right at least this time he's not throwing a fit over Obama's "arugula garden". nt

[JackDragna]

107. Such stories are our cultural myths.

On the surface, they're just entertainment, which is fine. On a deeper level, such entertainments reflect our hopes, fears and beliefs about the world. Every culture on Earth has had myths and stories that serve this purpose.

Ultimately, however, those of us who enjoy this type of thing often love it for the escapism it brings and have absolutely no need to justify it to you. To quote C.S. Lewis, "Some day you will be old enough to start reading fairy tales again."

[SemiCharmedQuark]

110. Yeah! Imagination should shrivel up and die when you turn 18!

[stray cat]

114. So what are acceptable things for adults to do and think?

Serve the net and post on DU about the movies people watch?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

115. Oh you know...An evening at the gentleman's club discussing Wittgenstein over a game of backgammon

One hand curled around a brandy...

[JackDragna]

118. Sounds like a good evening to me!

Of course, I also watch comic book movies, too. Give me scotch instead of the brandy and you're on. :)

[SemiCharmedQuark]

121. Well hell, let's just get hammered and go see Star Trek

:D

[sarge43]

127. And in the other hand

a fine Cuban cigar hand rolled on the glistening thigh of a cafe au lait beauty.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

164. Or sucking mustard out of the packets.

:D

[SemiCharmedQuark]

173. In the parking lot!

:rofl:

[sarge43]

187. The Wal-Mart parking lot. n/t

[roguevalley]

338. DUzy!

[saltpoint]

123. It's not just about the KAPOWs. There are many discernible delights to

these comic book heroes.

Most of them are a great read for liberals because the characters are banked off the class distinctions in culture. Zorro, for example, is a wealthy land holder who dines with the ruling class by day but by night rides through the land on his black steed to help the poor and voiceless. Pretty cool guy.

Spiderman is actually the nephew of working class folk in Queens. He helps the helpless also but his impulse to help isn't economically paradoxical. He's smart, resourceful, imaginative, and pro-science, plus he has a hot girlfriend. Not a bad combo.

We can play at the gods and goddesses without losing sight of the notion that they are constructs. And meanwhile the constructs are a lot of fun, whether you're 8 or 108.

Long live the super heroes.

[distantearlywarning]

161. And don't forget about V !

Now there's a liberal comic book hero we can all look up to!

[saltpoint]

410. Yep -- I got to see that film in a group of people who initially

didn't want to choose it over other choices, but one of our party was adamant that we go, and she just by god insisted.

So we went.

It turned out that she didn't think it was all that great and we were competely charmed by it. I rate it very high on a lot of levels. Top-notch film.

[TexasObserver]

126. Why doesn't everyone think exactly like you do?!!

That is so rude of people not to share all of your likes, dislikes, and peeves.

How can people be so heartless?

[Orsino]

130. "What does it mean when it seems like virtually every other movie that comes out...

...is based on some obscure niche-market comic-book?"

It means you're not getting to the theater much. Almost no movies come out based on obscure comic books. Few movies released these days are based on popular comic books.

You could keep up with what actually hits theaters here: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/movies/in_theaters.php

[Political Heretic]

132. You're a fool. Only a fool passes absolutist judgement over people's choice of entertainment.

It's not for you to decree what is "adult" and what is "juvenile" when it comes to entertainment. People like to express their creativity and imagination in different ways. Fantasy and the unreal appeal to some because it allows them to dream and experience the joy of a world of "what ifs."

If that's not your thing that's fine, but the fact that but your own accounting many adult, well-educated and intelligent people like it means perhaps its not accurately defined as "juvenile" or "adolescent."

[saltpoint]

133. Almost all the super heroes I can think of are adults, not prepubescents.

There are some who are very young but the general field favors pretty mature folk.

My personal favorites include (but are not limited to!) Dr. Don Blake, a physician in New York City who is lame and walks with a wooden crutch. He himself is lame but he is a skilled physician. A healer.

When Dr. Blake taps his wooden cane it become Mjolnir, the enchanted mallett, and Dr. Blake become Thor.

The issue is not whether that transformation is "real." The issue is that it packs a wallop and injects ancient transformative archetypal juice into our very veins. It's real good stuff and we're drawn to it across many centuries of bones and blood and books.

We're as lame as Dr. Blake. And as immortal.

[dionysus]

135. the most bizarre poutrage i have ever read on DU...

:rofl:

[Political Heretic]

138. PS - its morning now so small's sobered up after another drunken asshole post to DU

I guess it just wouldn't be DU without the drunken ignorant, cl assist, phobic dumbass rantings of someone too old to get a clue and lay off the sauce.

Nice touch with calling Europeans "eurotrash" upthread though small... haven't heard that from anyone other than a teabagger before....

[Raineyb]

140. You're an ass.

Seriously, you took time out of your busy wanking schedule to spew this nonsense why? So you can rain on someone else's parade? And you wonder what enjoying Star Trek says about them? What does this pissy little post pissing on people's interest in certain genre of movies, tv, and books say about you? I'd hang with the Trekkie any day of the week before I'd deign to spend any time with you.

[paulsby]

142. adult entertainment has always included fantasy

fantasy, escapism etc. have been a part of adult entertainment well... forever.

have you studied history, mythology, etc?

every culture i am aware of , from kanaka maoli to vikings, to germanic, to romans, etc. etc. greatly valued legends, fantastic cartoonish characters, etc.

[saltpoint]

147. If super hero-type films are not to your liking, you could post a thread

to solicit recommendations from other DUers for rental options.

Franco Zefferelli's ROMEO AND JULIET remains one of the gleaming masterworks of cinema.

I'd also recommend the Italian film CINEMA PARADISO.

Also the U.S. American films NETWORK, THE CANDIDATE, THE TRIP TO BOUNTIFUL, NASHVILLE, among many others.

Very soon into a reasonably good video rental place you'll find something you like.

[lumberjack_jeff]

149. Why should I care about explaining it to you?

Watch what you want.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

150. No wonder you drink alone.

[NeedleCast]

151. Because it's fun, light-heared and entertaining

It makes me sad for you that you can't see that.

[saltpoint]

154. It seems that adults are not obsessing about adolescent fantasies so much as

adolescents learn through literature (of all kinds) how to be adults.

Comic books and films based on their characters make important ideas and lessons more vivid. There is plenty of action, there is a multitude of color, there are strong women and important minority characters, and the tales told place the normal human heart in the larger universe.

Much is at stake if we want the good guys to prevail over the bad guys.

I think it's worth far more than 10 bucks or so per ticket to assert that notion.

[notadmblnd]

157. I wonder the same thing about baseball, basketball, football and hockey.

:shrug:

[Echo In Light]

162. Sports are closely intertwined w/the prevailing corporate culture ideology

They have such a predominant role in the educational system precisely because they serve to foster irrational attitudes of submission to authority, and promoting the gladiator mentality.

[Raskolnik]

168. Picked last for kickball, were we? n/t

[Echo In Light]

176. Was never interested. Camping, music, and smoking pot were much funner

[onenote]

180. grammar, on the other hand, must have been a drag

[Echo In Light]

183. How so?

[DireStrike]

200. funner / more fun

One is correct and one is not. :hi:

[Echo In Light]

205. Do you actually suppose that strict adherence to grammar is what prompted the poster?

:hi:

[DireStrike]

313. No, I followed the conversation through subject lines

:hi:

Nope, no idea what motivated him. Definitely motivated me though. There was some comparative ajdective that I used a little while ago that doesn't take "er". I forgot what it was, but I was shocked to be told by a group of people that it wasn't a word. Usually I can feel these things. "Funner" just feels wrong to me, but I guess it will be right eventually as well.

[Echo In Light]

314. Correct grammar wasn't the issue, my perspective on the topic was. Hence the veiled criticism.

[TheWatcher]

376. The very fact you would post something like this and even REMOTELY

Think it's relevant or an effective slight shows how little you get it.

:rofl:

[Raskolnik]

402. I calls 'em like I sees 'em.

Animated smiley faces notwithstanding.

[rockymountaindem]

204. "Submission to authority"?

Is that why athletes act like primadonnas so often and why lots of professional athletes routinely violate the rules of their sport and piss off management to such a high degree that they can't find a team that will deal with them for more than one or two seasons (Terrell Owens)? Submission to authority? Please. Sports is about being #1.

[Echo In Light]

209. You're verifying the point: those who are #1 often enjoy the servitude of others

[Marr]

219. I read something Noam Chomsky wrote on the subject of sports.

He seemed to think that sports are a kind morally acceptable space for placing brain power, since we can't analyze our own society objectively without getting criticism. If you listen to any sports call in show, it's hard to deny that people have placed a lot of thought into these stats and can juggle a million variables in making their observations. They're not dumb.

Personally, I think he was just viewing the subject with too much of a bias; assuming everyone would think like himself 'if only'. I think a lot of people just enjoy sports-- simple as that.

[Echo In Light]

228. From what I've read, or seen of him in interviews, no to your 1st, yes to your 2nd

In fact much of what I opined re how sports are used in our society stem directly from his insights.

As to your second point on his listening to call-in sports radio, yes, he says it's proof that Americans are most definitely capable of understanding and retaining detailed info - which serves to bolster the position that intelligence isn't the determining factor as to why Americans generally can't comprehend data about their govt that doesn't fit neatly into their propaganda based, background assumptions ...this of course leads back to the other forms of cultural indoctrination that begin, largely unidentified, early in the school system - such as sports.

It behooves the establishment powers on many levels to have a populace long accustomed to views/values shaped by the specific framework of championing the gladiator mindset, and rallying behind leaders, and their various groups. Such a populace will likely not voice as much moral/legal opposition to crimes of the corporate/state nexus.

[Withywindle]

324. Or golf, which the OP seems inordinately fond of.

Just seems to me like hours and hours of Republicans in ugly pants wandering around an artificial environmental-nightmare lawn trying to keep track of their tiny little white balls.

Why would any adult give a shit about that? :shrug:

[Echo In Light]

328. Ever hear George Carlin's scathing social critique, Golf Courses for The Homeless?

If not, Youtube it

[Echo In Light]

158. As a kid in the 70s/80s, neither Star Wars/Star Trek did it for me, yet I loved science fiction

...and still do

[Echo In Light]

194. Well, to be fair, I did enjoy Star Trek's initial television incarnation...

...but wasn't able to get into the movies or subsequent series

[Raskolnik]

159. Sez a guy posting on an internet messageboard at 12:30 am. n/t

[onehandle]

166. Because sometimes reality sucks. Our imaginations fuel the healing of minds. nt

[Lydia Leftcoast]

169. Because studios are looking for a mass audience, which these days means teenagers

If you want to see good movies, patronize art house movie theaters, film festivals, and the obscure corners of Netflix.

I've attended film festivals, first in Portland, then in Minneapolis, every year since 1986. It's a shame how many well-acted movies with original stories, high entertainment value, and real depth and heart never find a U.S. distributor.

The fact that you can't find a movie without CGI or car chases and explosions is part of the dumbing down of America.

Ever since Star Wars made a gazillion dollars, the studios have been trying to replicate the phenomenon by offering more and more blockbusters and phasing out the kinds of intelligents films that were the norm (alongside the brain candy) in the 1960s and 1970s.

A whole generation has grown up with nothing but big-budget, special-effect spectaculars with little plot and no characterization. A lifetime of seeing only those kinds of movies has destroyed people's abilities to concentrate on anything with depth or meaning.

"I lead such stressful life that I need to escape," is the usual excuse.

What, you think stress was invented in your lifetime?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

185. Do you think meaningless fluff entertainment was invented in yours?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

199. No, but it's crowding out financing for high-quality stuff

Yes, of course there was fluff in the past. Busby Berkeley anyone?

[Raskolnik]

275. Do you believe this was not the case at some point in the past? n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

281. No, of course not

Busby Berkeley was in the 1930s. If you don't know who he is, you need to review your film history.

[Raskolnik]

298. Then your point is not valid.

Ever since Star Wars made a gazillion dollars, the studios have been trying to replicate the phenomenon by offering more and more blockbusters and phasing out the kinds of intelligents films that were the norm (alongside the brain candy) in the 1960s and 1970s.

The ratio of good art to bad is just the same as it was twenty years ago, which was just the same as it was fifty years ago.

[Echo In Light]

190. Agree w/you on movies. Sundance, and IFC show many good ones

[sarge43]

229. All is vanity and vexation of Spirit

Yes, true. Before 1976 no one in the film industry was the least bit interested in filthy lucre, art for art's sake only.

We'll start our survey in those days when every Saturday afternoon I hauled my first flatten popcorn box at the screen of Essexville MI movie theater.

MGM musicals: Many great performances and couple of masterpieces, but on the whole over colorized fluff -- eye cotton candy.

Biblical epics: Such realism, such pandering to the mainsteam, such fear of television

SF bug eyed monsters flicks: Talk about pandering. A little stressed about nukes and commies, Bunky?

The soap operas: Starring the Empress and Queen of Cheese, Joan Crawford and Lana Turner. Made those musicals look like German Expressionism. All together now: Escapism.

Almost forgot: The Greatest Show on Earth, even got an Oscar.

Moving on the 60's

He Who Must Be Named: Bond, James Bond, no escapism there.

That Which Must Be Named: Cleopatra

The pitiful attempt to be hip and with it: We'll start with Myra Breckinridge, then The Sandpiper (Liz took on the Cheese crown) and conclude with The Grasshopper.

Take the best of yesterday and the worst of today and the Golden Age is long gone. Flip and things haven't changed all that much.

"90% of science fiction is crap. 90% of everything is crap." Theodore Sturgeon, SF writer

[Manifestor_of_Light]

433. That was a very good rant!!!

:applause:

:woohoo:

[sarge43]

457. Thanks, but it wasn't meant to be a rant.

Merely an old fart's reminder that the good old days weren't.

[roguevalley]

340. 'good' movie. I hate that. Whatever made you happy for two hours

is a 'good' movie. sheesh.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

359. "Good" in the critical sense.

In the same way that eating a bag of potato chips may not be good for you and lacks any sense of "proper food," while at the same time, it may serve its purpose of easing your hunger.

[aikoaiko]

170. Because not all adults are snobs.

;)

[Giant Robot]

171. I can think of only two things to say about the OP

1) The OP is deliberately stirring up trouble, using all the 50 cent words s/he knows, to denigrate something that s/he knows many folks here love. Usually people call this behavior trolling.

2) The OP is working very hard to be narrow minded. Some people call this behavior idiotic.

My suggestion, since I suspect it is the first, rather than the second, is to ignore this person and continue enjoying whatever it is you want to enjoy, and leave the OP to be the angry old man shouting at clouds (yes that was a Simpsons reference).

I do want to share something a very intelligent friend of mine once said. I respect his opinion deeply in many things, and I am honored to have known him for so many years now. He said once, that he thought the real desire to be rich was that when we are rich we can recreate our childhood better. We could have all the old comic books and toys, get the faster sports car, build the castle of our dreams, etc. And maybe for some, they can play Batman or swing a lightsaber.

[slick514]

172. you had me at....

"...all us normals..."

WTF is that supposed to mean??? Would I be more normal if I knew every baseball-stat for the past century? Or should I be pining for the olden-days when they made "real movies..."?

Anyway, in response to your "can someone explain to me..."-query, here's my attempt: All of the nerds who used comic books and D&D to escape the tortures of puberty have now grown up and are making @#$!-loads of money off of the brains that used to get them atomic wedgies in high school. Hollywood (like everyone else with a product to sell) is looking for demographics that have a lot of expendable income, and is writing films that these folks will pay to see. Supply meets demand and this is what you get.

Hey, but you should actually be grateful for this latest batch of flicks. They've been making horrible (HORRIBLE) comic book and fantasy movies for years, with the sure knowledge that there will always be a section of the fanboi population who will turn out to see their favorite hero in action (and then complain vehemently about how the serial number on the third droid in the first scene was inconsistent with that galactic quadrant's protocol...). At least these have decent acting and great special effects!

If you're complaining because you find these movies to be worthless mind-candy, then I think your real beef has got to be with Hollywood in general, or with our "entertain-me"-culture that just seeks distraction at the expense of intellectual/cultural depth. Now then, if your underlying complaint is simply that it's not YOUR kind of worthless mind-candy, then I've got little sympathy for you... You should have signed up for the high-school D&D tournament when you had the chance...

J.

Oh, hey, but you should really go see the new Star Trek film. Saw it Saturday and was glad to see that there's at least one section of my child-hood that Lucas hasn't managed to horribly mangle. I liked it a lot... (except that one of the cadets in the back of the bar during the fight scene didn't have the proper lapel markings... RUINED the scene! DAMMIT!!! :P )

[Giant Robot]

196. As one of the DU nerds

Welcome!

And I just wanted to share my opinion with you. I don't think the OP wants it explained to him. Many other posters have given wonderful arguments for the need and the normality of this type of entertainment in our, and any, culture. The OP does not care. But good effort on your part, and I agree, maybe if he signed up for D&D he would not be so bitter sitting alone drinking beer at the bar.

[kenfrequed]

174. "We had a slinky once... but we straightened it."

Seriously this is about fantasy and mythology as much as anything. Did you honestly think the travels of Odysseus were doctrinal religious allegories? I understand a need to take most things seriously and I do, I just think in terms of distractions and diversions that these elements of pure fantasy, fancy, and fluff really aren't as harmful as the sort of idiotic 'grown up' forms of entertainment that are considered acceptable. Let me review a few for you.

Survivor- contrary to actual tribal culture which ought to be communal, consensual, and cooperative this show teaches us the merits of cowardice, manipulation, theft, and greed. I can see how much better these values are than a comic book. Never mind the fact that any real tribal culture would collapse if they routinely kicked people off the island.

Top model/American idol/etc- Reality/competition shows. Exceptionalism and Horatio Alger at its finest and perfect recessions/depression viewing. As an element of political and social understanding it flops and fails to even capture the reality it portends to imitate better than even a single episode of Roseanne. We would be better served going to local theatre and seeing local talent than inventing new celebrities to dazzle ourselves with.

(speaking of celebrities) Any Celebrity show/magaizine/"newsprogram"/channel. Mostly designed for so called-adults that want to follow the modern day demigods of design, drama, and debauch. Rather than follow designed stories it seems a lot more important to merely follow every aspect of their lives in idiotic idolatry.

CSI (and its innumerable spin offs and imitators)- The police are geniuses that almost always catch their man/woman/transgendered-dwarf. Technology is god. Warrents and other legal constructs of rights only exist as a diversion to stop the good work from getting done.

Law and Order- The cops are, again, always right. And when they are not amazing prosecuters certainly get it fixed before they go to trial. Defense attorneys never really believe in their clients anyways and sadly just try to obstruct the process of justice.

Cops- Ok well, we admit it, most criminals arent that sneaky or pretty. In fact they are really all rednecks, imbeciles, and low class individuals. They never wear suits and ties and the only times they are white is when they are rednecks.

24 - "Gritty Realistic bullshit"- Unreal and moronic view of intelligence gathering an operations. Teaches us that torture is good, that it works, and that we actually do need to do it.

To be continued...

[ecstatic]

178. hehe... I seriously don't know but am forced to play along a lot of times

That type of movie was very popular at my college and still is with people in my age group. It does nothing for me though--I love sci fi and horror but not the comic book stuff.

[slackmaster]

179. Why would an educated, intelligent adult spend time in nonproductive arguments on an Internet forum?

:shrug:

[Arkana]

182. Because some adults grew up with Batman and Star Trek

and enjoy seeing them remade?

Geez, calm down. Just because you're not a sci-fi or comic book fan doesn't mean other adults can't be.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

184. Because the movies are entertaining, and I like being entertained

I also like playing video games and reading non-fiction.

[smoogatz]

193. Star Trek is The Odyssey.

Batman and the rest of the comic-book super heroes are Beowulf, or Hercules, or fill-in-the-blank. It's actually not just entertainment--that argument is shallow and wrong. What we've got here are archetypes, and we respond to them because they're essential human stories (or we wouldn't respond to them). The fact that we tell them over and over doesn't diminish them, it reinforces them.

[jgraz]

198. You're right. It's much better to spend time posting attention-seeking trolls on teh internets

No seriously, I'm glad we could be here for you. Though next time, you might just try taking your clothes off and dancing in the middle of the street.

:eyes:

[flvegan]

202. My cat's breath smells like cat food.

[bluedawg12]

203. Well said, Joe the plumber. n/t

[hedgehog]

206. Check out this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5629581&mesg_id=5629581

The best fantasy/science fiction is a means to discuss moral issues metaphorically.

[nini]

207. "Like I was at my local bar on Friday night"

Valley girls are even more annoying than those guys could ever be.

:eyes:

[distantearlywarning]

311. And like, omigod, these TOTAL dorks were discussing Star Trek!

I mean, like, don't they have anything better to, like, spend their time on and stuff? As if!

:evilgrin:

[nini]

417. you've got that down

:D LOL

[IdaBriggs]

210. I will attempt to answer your question seriously: Mythology & Storytelling

are documented traditions that are thousands of years old. As we explore the (real) world, our adventures/fantasies have to expand into alternate universes / outer space / alternate-realities-where-magic really works / etc. to create a place where protagonists (heroes) can wrestle with real life / moral quandaries / coping with bad things without obvious 'modern' fixes. Historical fiction can also be a valid setting for these adventures, as in, 'someone died of something that a modern antibiotic would have rendered easily curable', but as our knowledge of the real world grows, creating a literary world with its own set of rules is easier when we want to suspend disbelief.

For example, 100 years ago, the 'average' person did not have a clear picture of 'deepest, darkest Africa,' so Edgar Rice Burroughs was able to utilize the myth of it as a backdrop for an entertaining series about an orphan child (Tarzan/John Clayton/Lord Greystoke) who then had to wrestle with 'what makes a person civilized / how deep does a veneer of barbarian coat the true inner character / what makes a person noble and decent / how does the human heart and brain differ from the animal / what makes a person DECENT / how does environment impact on such concepts as self-sacrifice, courage, and empathy / etc.'

All wrapped up in an adventure tale that has captured the hearts of people for decades, and been retold in visual mediums multiple times, as well as print.

Like any good story, there is the surface of the tale, and then, when you look closer, there is the undercurrent. How does the character change / grow? What choices were made? Who am I, in relation to my environment? How do I feel about the choices the character makes? What choices would *I* make, given the same situation?

As I said, Africa was the great unknown; nowadays, we can easily google the place, and some of the 'mystery' is gone, because we 'know' that apes behave one way, and elephants another, and since Burroughs didn't have the benefit of google, or one hundred years of anthropology (plus he was a screaming racist, which was normal for his society), his 'aliens' were animals which we can now view in the local zoo. He could just as easily have placed his young orphan on another planet (yes, I know about John Carter of Mars - we are talking about Burrough's examination of nature vs nurture with his Tarzan series, thank you!), and that was Africa At The Time -- almost like an alien planet to the average person.

Now, back to your questions about Star Trek / X-Men: one of the MANY reasons they are enduring is because they have built their own layered mythology, based on characters who experience tragedy and triumph. Some of the tales are lightly concealed morality plays (how do we treat those who are different? what makes us 'better' than other people? what is civilization? what is courage? what is self-sacrifice? etc.), with human beings who might look different (green, adamantine claws, working in outer space, gifted with something that sets them apart from normal, etc.) but are REALLY US.

Think about it: you are going about your business, and all of a sudden, WHAM! You are different. You can do something that no one else can do. (See any adolescent walking the road between childhood to adult!) You can walk through a wall, control the weather, survive a fall from a ridiculous height -- fill in the blank, because once that initial moment of freak out passes, now you have to accept the fact you ARE NOT A GOD, and get about the business of living. How do you do that? And honestly, if someone can pick themselves up after having their family killed in front of them (which happens in 'real life'), then maybe a person unexpectedly in a wheelchair, or with a broken home, or whatever the problem is, can find the courage to pick themselves up, too, and if they can then commit themselves to trying to make the world a better place, then double yeah, because its hard to think outside of yourself when you are in pain, which is a pretty standard human condition.

I also think one of the reasons particularly bright people love these stories is because they deal with being different. If one accepts the fact that an IQ of 100 is 'normal' (50th percentile), that means half the population is above that number, and the higher the intelligence factor, the lonelier a person can be. As one wise person once said, 'its not how smart you are that counts, its what you do with it,' and the fantasy heroes with special abilities are just like us (only thinly disguised). Sometimes its easier to relate to the villain, and that is okay, too. We can intellectually explore the ideas, then put them aside while we deal with the real world, and that is fine.

For the Star Trek fan, there is also another bit: just like we know Africa today, or are still exploring the world under our seas (thanks to the inspiration of tales of mermaids and submarines), the idea of space travel as a normal part of the job is inspiring to some of our greatest minds. Yes, there are difficulties in the mechanics of it (E=mc2), but once one moves past the obvious problems, one begins to work on the solutions, until a probe exploring Mars (which looks nothing like Burroughs envisioned, by the way) seems plausible, and then normal. A space shuttle is nothing, and a space station is acceptable. Our writers and readers and storytellers have already been discussing some of the problems small crews will have as they deal with the new normals (small spaces, unexpected problems, and people with real personalities who don't always get along), and those of us in the know already understand that once we get past the mechanics of space travel, we will still be people -- and we will be the ones who define who a person is.

People can be white, or black, or green with pink polka dots. They can be hetero, homo, or multi sexual beings. They may believe in one god, or a thousand. Their ideas of family and how to treat each other may be the same, or different.

Either way, we will be richer for the knowing.

In the meantime, our imaginations will continue to ask the same questions we have been asking and answering for millenia.

Who are we? How did we get here? Why are we here? What makes us unique/special/different? What is courage? What is self-sacrifice? How should we behave?

Who are we, anyway?

End Note: For more information, I highly recommend reading any work by Joseph Campbell, including "Hero with a Thousand Faces," and my personal favorite, "The Power of Myth." Plus, of course, seeing the latest Star Trek and X-Men: Wolverine movies! LOL! :)

[Echo In Light]

211. Theodore Sturgeon's More Than Human

http://www.sfsite.com/08b/mth87.htm

[madmom]

212. Why do you choose to go to a bar and drink? That's kind of juvenile in my opinion.

[redqueen]

262. Succinctly and perfectly put. (nt)

[dmallind]

280. How is an activity expressly denied to minors juvenile? NT

[madmom]

295. Acting juvenile and being juvenile can be two different things.

[NYCGirl]

213. I'm recommending a film to watch that will explain it to you:

Sullivan's Travels (1941), written and directed by Preston Sturges

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sullivan%27s_Travels

[RufusTFirefly]

220. Good recommendation! I know the film well. n/t

[NYCGirl]

223. It's one of my favorites, and pretty much says it all. NT

[RufusTFirefly]

226. I'm very fond of it too, although it's really one of the oddest Sturges films

Some pretty disorienting shifts for people expecting a movie with a single tone and tempo throughout.

[NYCGirl]

232. That's one of the things I love about it. I can't remember any other film that

makes the lurch from outrageous comedy to dark tragedy and back again so successfully. It's genius.

[RufusTFirefly]

237. Agree in all respects. But I think it confounded general audiences.

Note how he moves incrementally from fantasy to "reality" and then back again.
The first trip to the rail yards is still fake. The second not so much.

[NYCGirl]

242. I pretty much adore everything Preston Sturges did. even "The Sin of

Harold Diddlebock"

[RufusTFirefly]

250. Then you may enjoy "Between Flops"

Between Flops

Sturges led a pretty colorful life.

[NYCGirl]

253. Thank you. Haven't read that. There's a very good PBS docu on him in the

American Masters series.

[bridgit]

214. 'Superman on the Couch' Explores American Psyche

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1980072

[johnaries]

215. It's called "allegory".

Personally, I learned more about morals, social conciousness, and the human condition from Scince Fiction than I ever did from the Bible.

[Kansas Wyatt]

218. I do not care anymore.

Then again, I'm not trying to relive my childhood either.

[Lerkfish]

225. um.... I'll overlook the fact that your OP is needlessly insulting

and give you several good answers:

1. These movies are usually better written and produced than many other current movies (unless you considered Beverlly Hills Chihuaha a masterpiece)
2. Its escapist fare during a very difficult time in the country. In short, they are fun to watch.
3. As a Visual Artist, I appreciate the design, special effects and visual style of these movies.
4. The comic book or movie deals with mythic themes on the same level as any opera or greek tragedy. Often themes of who we are as human beings and what that means can be very thought provoking and transforming. The Start Trek series was the FIRST medium to deal with race relations, women's rights, and other important issues at a time when the rest of the world was still fighting against civil rights


and, I gotta say, for someone who prattles on about "adult" and "juvenilla" your OP is the most dripping with adolescent angst I've seen in a while "oh why do other people like things that I do not? How dare they? I"m going to throw a tantrum!!! I'm going to hold my breath!!!"


jeez, just face it that people have different tastes in entertainment. I, for one, don't enjoy "reality" television, nor american idol, but I don't judge people that do, I just note that we like different types of entertainment. You should learn from my example.

[Dogtown]

230. "Drunk bewails straights involved in trivia..."

WHO's obsessing?

[SeattleGirl]

231. What's a "normal"?

:wtf:

[Mythsaje]

233. Because geeks rule the world.

Seriously--we elected one to the Presidency. Try to keep up. I'm sure you're unaware that Trek has a huge liberal bias--a near utopian future universe where the "fleet" is primarily devoted to diplomacy and exploration rather than imperial expansion and war? The X-Men comics and, to a much lesser degree, the movies, explored the concepts of prejudice, alienation, and abuse of power. Very anti-authoritarian, very subversive. Comic books are an epic variation of speculative fiction that have finally come into their own. Stuff that we were reviled and mocked for enjoying when we were young has now completely taken over. Get used to it. You ain't seen nothing yet.

Or, to put it another way, we really don't give a shit whether you "get it" or not.

Or to quote David Lo-Pan: "Because you, Mr. Burton, weren't put on this world to get it."


You rather remind me of the ignorant barbarians who used to ask me "what good is reading all that sci-fi and fantasy going to do you later in life?"

Hell, I don't know. I ended up an author. That's good enough for me.

[Giant Robot]

317. I don't really have anything to add to your post

I just wanted to give you a high five for a quote from Big Trouble in Little China.

:toast:

[Mythsaje]

401. A slight misquote, I think now,

but a worthy attempt.

It just fit too well.

[Giant Robot]

403. I'll try to watch it to see

I remember the line as what you wrote, except it was not a contraction. I believe he said, "were not" is all.

[wolfgangmo]

235. You mean as opposed to something relevant and deep

Like sports?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

239. Thanks for the laugh, George Will.

You going to get all upset over grown ups wearing blue jeans too?

[RedCappedBandit]

240. Why the hell do you care

how some random person spends two hours on a Saturday afternoon?

[MicaelS]

243. I'm 51 years old

And you sound like adults circa 40 years ago. "What are you reading that crap (science-fiction) for?" In other words, you sound like a reactionary old fart. :puke:

[kpominville]

245. One Word - MYTHOLOGY

Those are examples of modern mythology, which we as a society use to tell our stories and convey our lessons.

Read "The Power of myth" by Joseph Campbell for a better understanding of why myths are so important to society.

[Forkboy]

248. Nice post, Grandpa.

[redqueen]

249. Have you done this yet?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5631361

Just curious.

[Xenotime]

254. Agreed. There is so much more important things to discuss than junk such as that.

[KitSileya]

255. Wow, you're historyless, aren't you?

Ever since St. Thomas More's Utopia, science fiction has been one of the most critical literary genres there is. You cannot write science fiction without making a comment on today's society. Wolverine harkens back to Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, or the Modern Prometheus with its theme of medical experimentation. Star Trek was a slice of everything that was good (Federation=UN, for example) with a comment on many of the immediate issues of the day.

In fact, science fiction is the literary genre for critique of society, and when it's darn entertaining to boot? Win-win situation, if you ask me.

[NYCGirl]

259. The op doesn't believe

in the "win-win" scenario.

[BuelahWitch]

257. After being forced to watch X-Men2 6 times for a job a few years back

my attitude towards that series changed drastically-for the better. There's much more than just CGI and action in the stories if you look for it. I will either go see Wolverine (if it's still in theaters when I'm not broke) or rent it on Netflix when it comes out on DVD. I'm not a sci-fi fan per se, but I enjoy the films and the characters of the X-Men series.
Perhaps what the OP hates so much is all the hype behind these big movies. It gets tiresome after a while. Don't notice it as much since I don't have TV anymore, but I used to hate it too.

[Dappleganger]

267. Superheroes=Ancient mythological stories

My take on this is that the world of superheroes are equivalent to the mythological stories of years ago, where people needed to dream up heroes to help them escape from the realities of the world (or dream a little). As someone else posted earlier, new CGI technologies now make it possible to bring these stories to the big screen.

Yes, some people may seem obsessed to those who don't care about it while others really are obsessed. However, as a parent who is also a long-time Trekker with teens now--I *loved* going to see the new Star Trek movie and seeing the looks on the kids' faces. It was a fun time of bonding and then had a great discussion afterwards.

If you don't like that's ok, but there are a hell of a lot of smart people who DO. Some of those 'adolescent obsessors' have made some significant contributions to our society (mobile phone, computers, bio-medical devices, etc.).

[Trailrider1951]

272. WTF? Get your nose OUT of my recreation!

Look bubba, when I have had all I care to take of the bullshit this world can dish out, Trek is my refuge. And as for my "pre-pubescent super-heros", here is a picture of two of them:



Both of whom wrote far more about the human condition than YOUR pathetic little posts. :P

[AspenRose]

273. Wasn't "V for Vendetta" originally a graphic novel?

Nothing juvenile about that subject matter.....

I've also seen graphic novels based on the 60s TV show The Prisoner.

That's some deep, high-falutin' stuff there.

[nadinbrzezinski]

274. Because we cannot spend all our time in the depth of politics

also if you care to pay attention you'd realize that this popular culture is also a mirror to our society

Hell, X=Men, you know what it was partially about? Civil Rights.

Batman... the divisions between the rich and the poor, and how the poor are victimized. It was also about a broken justice system, and the great depression.

Star Trek... boy you really have never examined it, depending on the period, you had conversations about civil rights, the Vietnam war, and of course the advancement of women, not to mention across, the failure of capitalism. (Fer the record they broke the time line so severely that they could redo the whole series and I doubt several episodes would be done)

Oh and I am just scratching the surface of this. At least Batman is not the modern hero who goes to war and gosh darn it, is the same person. Here we are talking about a man who suffered a great trauma as a boy.

Oh and Lord of the Rings... total war and modern life.

I am sure you have never really paid attention to what those things say about us, and the mirror they project. Given I produce some of that shit I have noticed this with the new media... it is classic imperial media... where you too can go to war, do some heroic shit and never ever be touched by it. Modern media truly treats you like a child, but many of the things you are being critical off, are dealing with real serious shit.

[roguevalley]

343. explored racism, first interracial kiss. Nichelle Nichols was asked

by Martin Luther King not to leave the show because she was a role model for black kids, some of whom are astronauts and presidents.

[nadinbrzezinski]

362. Yep, but hey it is just juvenila

for the record it also covered the cold war and pushed some of our imperial policies, but of course I am alluding to many papers written on the genre.

I have to say, some folks really have no clue about what THAT popular culture says about us. Compare that to oh... Eureka, entertaining shlock, but what it presents is an ideal world so far removed from reality it is not even funny.

Now BSG.... that was serious shit, and all but an american story, in the modern sense that is.

[DatManFromNawlins]

277. Because Oscar winning movies...

Are normally boring, sepia-colored pieces of crap created and filmed specifically to win the hearts and minds of faux- and quasi-intellectuals in the entertainment industry.

Some of us actually want to enjoy the movies we watch.

No matter how badly you want it to be otherwise, movies are entertainment first, art a very, very distant second.

[Taverner]

279. It's better than boy-meets-tractor love stories

IN Soviet Union, tractor DOES YOU!

[TheWatcher]

282. And the "Normals" wonder why we giggle and laugh at them so.

Please, just go watch the fucking Playoffs and swill some cheap beer, or one of the other "mature" mating rituals you think is so important, and just fuck off.

Your Post is so bereft of anything useful or relevant it doesn't even deserve a response.

Smalll is a perfectly fitting name for you.

It's been a while since I've seen a mind as small as yours.

I'd be so amused if you visited OUR local bar.

We'd kick your ass and not even smear our eye-liner.

:rofl:

[Ishoutandscream2]

286. Yes, we are a bit more immature. But that's okay

I want to stay young as long as possible. Let me go back to my youth and enjoy those things once again. It's no crime, and they make me happy.

[dysfunctional press]

292. talk about your appropriate screen names...

you couldn't have been more spot on with your choice of one. :thumbsup:

[DFW]

293. An old (as in 86) friend of mine invented half of those characters

At age 86, he still has fun with them, even though he has mostly moved on to other projects.
He still gets bit parts in the films made with his characters. If he's not too old to enjoy
his creations at age 86 (he'll be 87 this year), than why should we be too old, when we were
the prime audience when they first came out?

[Giant Robot]

330. Not asking you to name drop or anything

But if its who I suspect it is, tell him one internet nerd said thank you. I know this sounds like silly hyperbole, but I really don't know what my life would be like without comic books. I can't imagine me being happy without them growing up. I just thought he should know he made a difference.

[DFW]

412. I will, if you really want. He's still pretty down to earth

And he STILL signs off his emails with "Excelsior!"

In L.A. with me & Mrs. DFW a couple of years ago:

[Uzybone]

473. the great Stan Lee

one of the greatest storytellers of our time.

[DFW]

474. And he's STILL at it

If you visit him at his office in BH, he's busy all day going over plot lines, screenplays, etc.
He's had a great time doing it all his life, why should he stop now?

[Gidney N Cloyd]

339. What a cool guy to know! (not too hard to figure out who you're talking about)

:hi:

[DFW]

413. It's a long story, but yes, I've known him for a few years now.

One of my closest friends in Texas who knew him told me that if I was going to be out in L.A., that
I should have lunch with him. I said, sure, right, Stan Lee would drop everything and have lunch with
some guy he had never heard of. But my friend promised he would set it up, and sure enough, he did. I
see Stan now every time I'm in L.A. (which isn't much any more these days, and I haven't seen him since
last year, but we stay in touch by email). The picture above is in front of his Santa Monica Blvd. office
building.

A friend of mine in London has a foster son who pleaded for an autograph. I asked Stan if he would do it,
and he sent a Spider-Man logo card, made out to the kid's name, and he was happier than if I had just
given him the deed to Buckingham Palace.

[TheWatcher]

378. EXCELSIOR!

:hi:

It's obvious who you are talking about. He IS one of the coolest kids alive. :)

[DFW]

414. And he STILL signs his emails that way! n/t

[proteus_lives]

421. You lucky dog!

If he walked past me, I'd stand up and tip my hat to him.

Please send the best wishes of a life-long True Believer his way.

[DFW]

459. I will!

He's not too proud to acknowledge them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

434. Yep he is pretty down to earth

and missed him in the latest....

Say hi for me... comicon san diego and a minis game, he might remember

[ebdarcy]

475. Can I just say, I really admire your friend?

Geek that I am, I always get a little thrill when I see his cameos. I hope he realizes how much he has contributed to the lives of others.

[DFW]

476. I think he does, although he tends to make flippant remarks about it

Here is an interview he did with some friends of mine who run a collectors' gallery in Dallas:

http://www.ha.com/magazine/images/hm_5_summer08.pdf

Stan's part starts around page 26.

[centristgrandpa]

294. the age of fantasy

Imagination goes a long way especially if one was raised with comic or story books. The technalogy these days make graphics and reality seamless. Thank you Frank Miller, 300 comes to mind.

[Deep13]

296. It's fun.

Lighten up. Nothing gives intellectuals a bad name like humorless, condescending, stick-up-ones-ass snobbery.

[redqueen]

297. I hope everyone posting here has already called to support single payer!

I know this thread is fun and all but please... call today!

[Raskolnik]

299. Why don't you care about Darfur? n/t

[redqueen]

300. The meeting is tomorrow!

We need to show them the level of support ASAP!

:bounce:

[Raskolnik]

301. And global warming is an ongoing threat, which you apparently don't care about either

...along with racial discrimination, homelessness, gay marriage, and under-tipping.

Why don't you care about any of these issues as much as I do?

[redqueen]

305. If you don't want to call, don't!

I can't force ya. Crack all the jokes you want. :hi:

[Raskolnik]

307. And I can't force you to care about all those other issues, either.

If you can sleep at night not caring about any of them, that's your business.

[redqueen]

308. Is there some big meeting on one of those issues going on soon?

I'd appreciate a link if there is!

Thanks! :hi:

[Raskolnik]

310. For those of us that care, it is an ongoing process.

But obviously you don't fall in that category.

[redqueen]

312. LOL

Ok, whatever dude!

Peace!
:hi:

[roguevalley]

345. why are you berating Redqueen? Jeez. Go kick someone else.

[Raskolnik]

350. You could have called your congressman twice in the time it took you to read this sub-thread

and post a response.

Just sayin'.

[roguevalley]

354. and you assume people haven't. killjoys everywhere today.

sheesh.

[Raskolnik]

358. I believe you misunderstand my point.

I believe it is silly, not to mention self-righteous, for a poster to chastise others because they are not discussing the issue that the poster apparently feels should consume the totality of our attention.

[sarge43]

377. FWIW

Along with reading and posting on this thread, I called my senators and chewed on some staffers' legs about Single Payer Health Care, to wit everyone in this country should have the same health care as senators and we military retirees do - free or inexpensive.

I also went shopping, surfed the net for news, fed the birds, did the house work, planted some herbs, mulched and fertilized my roses bushes, read a chapter of The Bedside Baccalaureate and helped the spousal unit inspect his bees.

I haven't shot anyone yet, but the day ain't over. (pop culture movie reference)

Just sayin'

[rch35]

332. are you sarcastic or fucking nuts? nt

[Raskolnik]

349. I believe I was pointing out the holier-than-thou nature of chastising participants

in this thread for not spending 100% of their time focused on the issue du jour.

[redqueen]

397. I didn't chastise anyone... I only expressed my hopes

that people hadn't missed out on what I personally perceived to be THE action item of the day.

If that made you feel defensive, that's on you.

FWIW, I consider it part of our communal duty here to make sure others are aware of these things, because in such a busy forum, those things are easily missed. :)

Peace! :hi:

[Cheap_Trick]

303. Just because I feel you need to be schooled some more...

here's Time Magazine's list of the 100 best English-language novels from 1923 to present:
http://www.time.com/time/2005/100books/the_complete_list.html
(scroll down to the W's)

The Adventures of Augie March
Saul Bellow

All the King's Men
Robert Penn Warren


American Pastoral
Philip Roth


An American Tragedy
Theodore Dreiser

Animal Farm
George Orwell


Appointment in Samarra
John O'Hara


Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret
Judy Blume

The Assistant
Bernard Malamud


At Swim-Two-Birds
Flann O'Brien

Atonement
Ian McEwan


Beloved
Toni Morrison


The Berlin Stories
Christopher Isherwood

The Big Sleep
Raymond Chandler


The Blind Assassin
Margaret Atwood


Blood Meridian
Cormac McCarthy

Brideshead Revisited
Evelyn Waugh


The Bridge of San Luis Rey
Thornton Wilder



Call It Sleep
Henry Roth


Catch-22
Joseph Heller


The Catcher in the Rye
J.D. Salinger


A Clockwork Orange
Anthony Burgess


The Confessions of Nat Turner
William Styron


The Corrections
Jonathan Franzen


The Crying of Lot 49
Thomas Pynchon


A Dance to the Music of Time
Anthony Powell


The Day of the Locust
Nathanael West


Death Comes for the Archbishop
Willa Cather

A Death in the Family
James Agee

The Death of the Heart
Elizabeth Bowen


Deliverance
James Dickey


Dog Soldiers
Robert Stone



Falconer
John Cheever


The French Lieutenant's Woman
John Fowles


The Golden Notebook
Doris Lessing


Go Tell it on the Mountain
James Baldwin


Gone With the Wind
Margaret Mitchell


The Grapes of Wrath
John Steinbeck


Gravity's Rainbow
Thomas Pynchon


The Great Gatsby
F. Scott Fitzgerald



A Handful of Dust
Evelyn Waugh


The Heart Is A Lonely Hunter
Carson McCullers


The Heart of the Matter
Graham Greene

Herzog
Saul Bellow


Housekeeping
Marilynne Robinson


A House for Mr. Biswas
V.S. Naipaul


I, Claudius
Robert Graves


Infinite Jest
David Foster Wallace


Invisible Man
Ralph Ellison



Light in August
William Faulkner


The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe
C.S. Lewis

Lolita
Vladimir Nabokov


Lord of the Flies
William Golding

The Lord of the Rings
J.R.R. Tolkien


Loving
Henry Green


Lucky Jim
Kingsley Amis


The Man Who Loved Children
Christina Stead


Midnight's Children
Salman Rushdie

Money
Martin Amis


The Moviegoer
Walker Percy


Mrs. Dalloway
Virginia Woolf

Naked Lunch
William Burroughs


Native Son
Richard Wright


Neuromancer
William Gibson

Never Let Me Go
Kazuo Ishiguro


1984
George Orwell



On the Road
Jack Kerouac


One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
Ken Kesey


The Painted Bird
Jerzy Kosinski

Pale Fire
Vladimir Nabokov


A Passage to India
E.M. Forster

Play It As It Lays
Joan Didion

Portnoy's Complaint
Philip Roth


Possession
A.S. Byatt


The Power and the Glory
Graham Greene

The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie
Muriel Spark


Rabbit, Run
John Updike


Ragtime
E.L. Doctorow


The Recognitions
William Gaddis


Red Harvest
Dashiell Hammett

Revolutionary Road
Richard Yates


The Sheltering Sky
Paul Bowles


Slaughterhouse-Five
Kurt Vonnegut


Snow Crash
Neal Stephenson

The Sot-Weed Factor
John Barth

The Sound and the Fury
William Faulkner

The Sportswriter
Richard Ford


The Spy Who Came in From the Cold
John le Carre


The Sun Also Rises
Ernest Hemingway


Their Eyes Were Watching God
Zora Neale Hurston


Things Fall Apart
Chinua Achebe

To Kill a Mockingbird
Harper Lee


To the Lighthouse
Virginia Woolf


Tropic of Cancer
Henry Miller



Ubik
Philip K. Dick

Under the Net
Iris Murdoch

Under the Volcano
Malcolm Lowry


Watchmen
Alan Moore & Dave Gibbons

White Noise
Don DeLillo


White Teeth
Zadie Smith


Wide Sargasso Sea
Jean Rhys




Here endeth the lesson.

Class dismembered.

[RB TexLa]

304. Because they like it. Many people have something they enjoy that others might find silly

Sci-fi, boybands, professional wrestling, sports, collectibles, you name it someone thinks it's silly, a waste of time, childish, on and on.

People like what they like.

[Throd]

306. I like to watch drag racing. I also like art museums. Lighten up.

[Seldona]

318. The wisdom of the bar-stool eh?

I'll pass, thanks.

[jgraz]

364. It's definitely stool-related.

[Dorian Gray]

319. Not a fan of X-men

but I love Sci Fi. There is a lot of depth in many sci fi works.

[DainBramaged]

323. I guess you thought being a dickweed in a garden of intelligent people would be fun?

[TheWatcher]

329. Well, How else do you expect Apes to Communicate?

But then again, I should not insult Apes like that.

After all, as Jamie Lee Curtis Once Said, "Apes Read Philosophy Too. They Just Don't Understand It."

I think this idiot is just a few steps below that level of understanding.

[DainBramaged]

382. Great point

I've been a bonehead over the years, but if I don't know shit, I don't know shit.

[YankeyMCC]

327. Yeah all those ancient bards and storytellers

would only tell 'important' stories and the people didn't look for entertainment and meaning in fantastic stories. ;)

[W_HAMILTON]

333. A lot of them grew up with this stuff as kids.

So, seeing it on the big screen, or seeing a new take on it, is somewhat nostalgic for them.

I haven't been to see a movie in years, but if they came out with a remake of Beetlejuice, I'd be there in a heartbeat!

[Undercurrent]

336. I count myself as fortunate that

at the age of 60 I still like to play. I've been a Star Trek fan, and collector of memorabilia for decades. (I'm especially proud of my ST handhelds collection.) I like comics, SCFI movies, and thoroughly enjoy watching LOST on TV. I play frisbee with my dog, have a collection of kids trucks, and like to swing in the old swing under the ceder tree.

Just relax. It isn't hurting you, or anyone else for adults to play.

[ContraBass Black]

341. I think that this post is a joke.

Well played.

[Jennicut]

344. I am a 33 year old woman with two kids who loves comics and the movies based on them

I also love Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter and any thing else that involves using your imagination. Its entertainment, pure and simple. As an adult with two kids sometimes its nice to get away from "real life" sometimes. Besides, I loved comic book heroes since I was a kid. Spiderman was huge in the 80's. My older brother got me into it, reading the comic books and watching the cartoon after school. Its a little piece of childhood that still stays with me.

[rucky]

352. This is why I only watch Adult Films. n/t

[Starry Messenger]

357. I took you off ignore so I could add to the fun here.

My husband told me about this thread. I just want to say

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

I have an MFA from a prestigious private art school and I totally love comics, science-fiction and movies based on both. Juvenilia? I guess Time magazine must be the kiddie papers. :eyes:
http://www.time.com/time/2005/100books/0,24459,watchmen,00.html



Wallow in your sad solitary life of drinking and overhearing conversations that are more interesting than you.

[sarge43]

420. So. What's the story behind that picture?

Looks like the beginning of one great party.

[Starry Messenger]

423. It's from the opening credits of "Watchmen"

The movie adaptation of the graphic novel. The story is set in a world where it is assumed that costumed heroes were a part of US history, so there is a lot of alternative history flashbacks with "vintage" superhero snapshots. There are a lot of cool scenes just in the opening and that's one of my favorite pictures. I just found it today looking for something to illustrate my post and went "squee!". I can't wait until the movie comes out on DVD. :D I saw it twice in the theatre and am now wishing I had gone back for a third helping.

[sarge43]

428. What a great idea. Now I'll have to see it.

I haven't read many graphics. Looks like that's another low brow time waster I'll have to indulge in. Thanks for the heads up.

[Javaman]

360. masturbatory faux intellectualism. nt

[baldguy]

363. "The more complex the mind, the greater the need for the simplicity of play."

The Testament of Kirk on stardate 3025.3, in the Book of Roddenberry, Section 1, Chapter 17, Verse 12.

[Deja Q]

367. Okay, I will take the statue of the Thinker and put a beanie on his head. Or, worse,

saw off David's concrete wiener.

See, I just fucked up two great classics.

'nuff said, I win.

[sarge43]

372. Until you play Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D minor on the accordion,

you just get an honorable mention.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

379. So do you know about Larry Adler?

Famous harmonica player who played Bach.

:rofl:

BTW, I am NOT normal. My tastes in music and art are not normal.

[sarge43]

380. As a matter of fact, I do.

It's not the medium; it's the message.

Normal is so boring.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

389. Normal is very boring.

I have met tons of people who all look the same, drive the same SUVs, watch the same TV shows and movies, watch the pro sports teams, and have the same jobs.

They have not one ounce of imagination or creativity. And it does NOT bother them in the least. There are millions of 'em.

And they love to call the City and gripe about the "sticks in my yard" or the "veneer peeling on the garage door" or the "car in the driveway" or "the poison ivy on the back fence" or "washing the car on the grass" (on MY property) makes THE NEIGHBORHOOD LOOK BAAAD!!

Fucking Nazis.

I moved to the country to get away from Suburban Assholes. :grr:

[sarge43]

395. GMTA

One of the reasons Himself and I settled in the wilds of rural NH where "Live Free or Die" isn't a motto; it's a way of life.

No one gives a rodent's behind what your yard looks like, "'Tain't my business".
It's not a lunched out antique tractor rusting away on the front lawn; it's a family heirloom and a garden centerpiece.

Saturday is the high point of social week -- go to the dump and check out what the summer people have thrown away. "It's our anniversary next month. The old man will love this." Bring the dogs and make an afternoon of it. Corner the Selectman and give him a ration.

Hear some one up the road shout out, "Hey Becky! Were you been? You and Shirley gonna get married when those a-holes in Concord pass that marriage law?"

When the guy selected to play Wolfman at the Clark Trading Post makes front page news.

Watch the yearling moose play tag with the crows around the blueberry bushes.

Normal sucks.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

472. I had to look up GMTA.

Thanks.

Now in my tiny little town of East Jeebus, the pressure to conform is different. It's "Why don't you come to the Methodist Church? We got good preaching."

I'm not interested. Got no use for it. I've done xtianity. Been there, done that, got the trauma.

:banghead:

[Rex]

375. So it upsets you that 'smart', middle class fellas like superfluous minutiae?

Maybe you should worry about your own unimportant idiosyncrasies and not what others are doing/thinking. :eyes:

[InvisibleTouch]

381. And you surely have NO hobbies or interests or passions...

...that someone else, somewhere, doesn't "get"? Would you like them to look down on you for it?

It would be a pretty boring world if we all had exactly the same interests. Get over yourself.

[TheWatcher]

384. No, he lives vicariously through the shitting and urinating on of other people's happiness and

Interests.

It's just so damn "Intellectual."

:rofl:

[Withywindle]

431. I think you're assigning his motives too much complexity.

I think it's just that Trekkies beat him up and stole his lunch money when he was a kid.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

385. Of course he does.

He chugs beers in his tent of hate, spending nights staring helplessly at the distant glow of civilization.

[OHDEM]

388. I never really got into comic books.

I usually read current events or history books and I watch a lot of news including C-Span and PBS, but occasionally I read Bill Maher or Al Franken and watch brain-dead crap.

Sometimes, we all need to take some time and NOT THINK!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

393. So why DO Adults like Professional Sports???

Beats me. :shrug:

[redqueen]

398. I sooooo want to answer that question.

*bites tongue*

[cherokeeprogressive]

409. I think that's an easy one.

In the Game of Life, when you lose, you lose very important things like your job, family, or the ability to get out of bed tomorrow.

In sport, the loser loses nothing of importance other than a little pride. Tomorrow's a new day with a new game. In sport, it's not only possible, but documented that an individual or team ALWAYS has a chance to go from "worst to first". In the Game of Life? Not so much.

Sport is a way to escape from the pressures of daily life by living vicariously.

[Jade Fox]

394. That's a damned good question. nt

[On the Road]

396. Perhaps the People You Overheard Were Being Juvenile,

but I would venture to guess you're missing something. It is true that a lot of comic books are unrealistic or childlike. On the other hand, the best characters are as robust, fully formed, and interesting as in any other genre.

Batman is accessible because adults read the comics as children. But like the best children's fiction, Spiderman transcends the category and offers plenty to interest adults. People respond to the best superheros as archetypes, or perhaps legendary heros. They put the characters in new situations and offer new choices and moral dilemnas. Many of the new-generation movies (like The Dark Knight) attempt to reinvent the characters in a more believable adult world. It may be more difficult to care if you're being exposed to them for the first time

The prevailing view nowdays is that there is no hard line between serious and nonserious literature. The best superheros are riveting characters, and the best stories contain all the complexities of a good novel. There is a reason people find them gripping, even though they may not know the reasons and may even be slightly embarrassed about it.

[Richard Steele]

399. It really BUGS you when other people are happy, doesn't it?

nm

[villager]

400. Let's settle it like the cowboys do:

[walldude]

405. What are you fucking kidding?

Lost pensions. 401K's down the drain, no health care, planet falling part, 2 wars, bank bailouts, swine flu, torture, failing economy, racism, robber barons, corrupt politicians, Limbaugh, Hannity, Cheney, Bush... hell I could do this all day.
Sometimes I like to go to the movies and watch the good guys win for a fucking change.


And the only one "obsessing" is you. The rest of us are just enjoying our escapism. Oh and BTW if you actually knew what you were talking about you'd see that comics aren't just for kids anymore. I had to read through the Watchmen 4 or 5 times and I still haven't peeled back all the layers of allegory.

[JerseygirlCT]

406. Perhaps they have superior imaginative abilities

and enjoy exercising them.

Why does it trouble you so? Is it really less "acceptable" than a bunch of people talking sports? Or even politics?

They were enjoying a conversation about shared interests and entertainment.

And if they're not "normal" in your view, then I'm quite satisfied to be among the abnormal, and a bit concerned about what normal might look like.

[armyowalgreens]

415. Comic book stories are allegories dealing with the human condition...

I like watching them and analyzing the underlying messages. They even have classes at major universities on comic book allegories.

Most comic books really deal with adult content more than kid content.

The action is just the cherry on top.

[ibegurpard]

416. maybe you will understand

when you actually grow up

[Ex Lurker]

424. I'm mildly interested in the star trek movie

meaning I'll probably watch it on DVD. I couldn't care less about the others you mentioned. But to each his/her own. It's their money and their time.

[quiet.american]

426. THANK YOU, SMALLL! I couldn't care less about the "backstory" of Kirk and Spock.

In fact, I really don't want to know. I just want to remember being five years old and grooving to the Star Trek theme, which at that time was available through re-runs on WPIX NY, Channel 11, BEFORE it was corporate-ized into the One Tree Hill "WB11."

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

427. You heard one conversation, and made a value judgement

God forbid anyone ever overhears you discussing something they find inane at a bar or restaurant. Hopefully, they'll post here if they do though.

[smalll]

432. I see what you're saying, but I wasn't really specifically judging the men discussing Batman.

It was just that overhearing these two clearly intelligent and likely successful men discuss Batman so seriously struck me as just one more reminder of the epidemic craze for obscure comic books/science fiction that has been sweeping over the nation in recent years.

Yes, it was an over-heated rant. But every now and then you get a trend that needs to be forcefully condemned. Like Crocs, for example.

I kind of see this comic book/science fiction ascendancy as the Crocs of literary and filmic entertainment. There's nothing wrong with standing athwart bad taste and yelling "Stop!" every now and again. In fact, such exclamations are just good citizenship.

[Warren DeMontague]

440. "now and then"?

Do you do anything else?

[nadinbrzezinski]

447. So what is art? I mean I am proof positive you do KNOW

that the Bard himself was considered a HACK in his days... I know the horror.

And somebody like oh Van Gogh was considered to be in bad taste.

I am sure you knew Picasso was not truly appreciated until late in his life, neither was Dali.

Of course I could go REALLY obscure on you, and suggest you watch some Luis Bunuel movies... that IS art of the 1940s and 50s... and no I don't expect YOU to know who that guy is. Suffice it to say it is NOT sci fi, oh the horror of horrors.

After all Sci Fi does not speak to the human condition, but some books are part of the required readying, see 1984, A Brave New World and Animal Farm. You see what you despise, and yes you despise, is a full commentary on our world and our society. Perhaps you should try to find some scholarly papers on the sociology of Star Trek... yes some people with PhDs have found some amusing things... like its full in-depth commentary on the 1960s, the Empire and civil rights.

Try to open your eyes, ok. And if you really cannot stand it, I get it, not your cup of tea, go to listen to an opera or two, or perhaps the summer music pops (wait those are having music from these movies), and buy a clue. Popular culture has never been popular with the high and flutting in society. But some of it becomes the CLASSICs of latter generations.

[Warren DeMontague]

448. standing athwart bad taste and yelling "Stop!".... you mean William F. Buckley style?

Hey, at least now we know where you go for your inspiration.

well she talks to all the servants
about man and god and law
everybody sez she's the 'brains' behind paw
she's 68, but she sez she's 54...

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

455. What is bad taste?

I'd argue that for the most part, the two recent Batman films are not in bad taste, as was say, the one with George Clooney, Ahnold and Uma Thurman.

Then again, if the two men were debating the finer points of say, The Scarlet Pimpernel, would you object to that because it's roots are grounded in a similar type of mythology? Or is it okay, because it's an old enough story to be considered "literature"?

[sarge43]

471. Science fiction: trash written and enjoyed by abnormals

The man who discovered the Three Laws of Planetary Motion which forms the mathematical foundation for space travel also wrote what is now considered the first true science fiction story.

The man who wrote the first paper describing geostationary satellites that now make global communications possible also wrote masterpieces of science fiction. You may have heard about one while ease dropping -- 2001: A Space Odyssey.

The man who holds the Lucasian Chair at Cambridge University and made breakthroughs in such simple stuff like black hole theory, theoretical cosmology and quantum gravity likes Star Trek so much he asked to play a role in a TNG episode and he did.

If they're abnormal, who wants to be normal.

(You can look up 'em up.)

[Warren DeMontague]

441. I don't mean to alarm you, dude, but you've got a liquid metal terminator in your sig pic.

plus, I like her music, too.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

454. Hey! Don't bring that up.......

....your obsession with cheap action movies/tv is showing!

[Warren DeMontague]

467. I'm an overgrown adolescent, yes indeed.

I'm still pissed that I spent $300 on a Roomba and it doesn't look a thing like Summer Glau.

[Skip Intro]

430. I don't know about those other ones, but Star Trek rocks!

Humanity has set aside it's dark self-destructive nature, overcome racism, capitalism, greed, and injustice, and has instead set its eyes on the unknown that surrounds us all. We purposely venture into the unknown, on a quest for knowledge; on a quest to seek out new life forms, new civilizations - to boldly go where no one has gone before.

How the hell can you have better premise than that?

[Warren DeMontague]

439. C'mon. You know perfectly well you can't STAND these imaginary 'latte types' of yours.

So, then, why do you give a fuck what sorts of movies 'they' want to watch?

Unless it's yet another excuse to drag out the giant axe you have against all the things you hate---



and grind, grind, grind away, again? :shrug:

[TZ]

449. Translation:I don't understand it

Threrfore I must shit allover it to prove my moral superiority to others.elitist snob much? Can't tell ypuvhow many scientists I know who love this stuff.but clearly they don't pass you purity test.here's what I say to you:get over yourself.

[Kitty Herder]

456. Star Trek (and most sci-fi) was never meant for children.

I can't speak to the movies based on comics, although, as dark as some of them are, I don't think they're made for children either. (Comic books and movies based on them aren't my thing, as a general rule, so I don't know much about them and wouldn't presume to judge them. Although I did enjoy The Dark Knight.)

Edited to add: Way to start a flame war. ;) Apparently, we DUers are passionate about our sci-fi and comic books. Er, in my case, just about the sci-fi.

[didact]

460. THANK YOU! I was waiting for you to weigh in on this!! Keep us posted!!

[MicaelS]

462. The standard criticism of progressives is that they feel too much

And think too little. You're just the reverse, you think too much and feel too little.

[Echo In Light]

465. A revealing bit of projection/switcheroo since repubs/fundies buy into state propaganda more than...

...progressives/liberals/leftists.

The charge of relying on emotion instead of FACTS is a favorite right-wing projection precisely because they themselves do exactly that. The flag-wavers, fundies and Bush supports, etc, buy into the most blatant, easily disprovable lies, cover ups, examples of abuse of power, disregard of law/treaties in the name of nationalism (or the euphemistically applied 'patriotism') , and all of those top-down appeals are grounded in the manipulation of emotion: fear. The most effective propaganda appeals to our emotions while masquerading as logic.

[Sanctified]

468. I bet Homer would have pissed you off if you had lived in ancient Greece. n/t

[riverdeep]

469. Damn, who would've thought THIS would be a hot topic?

Usually a thread about sex, male-female comparisons, animal welfare, and a few others, will be a guaranteed flamefest, but now we have to add comic books to the list.

[Avalux]

470. Because real life sucks and fantasy via movies is a reprieve.

I ENJOY a good sci-fi, action, superhero, etc. movie; gets me out of my own head and gives me the chance to feel like a kid again.

It's that simple. What's "us normals" mean anyway?