I think ALL the pols have underestimated the repressed anger and frustration over healthcare

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

This issue hits ALL AMERICANS regardless of any type of statistical identification.

Young people fresh out of college and between jobs can't afford healthcare and go naked
The unemployed can't afford healthcare as they choose between mortgage/food or health coverage
The bitter employed have to stay in jobs they loathe due to the benefits
Small businesses fail due to the crushing burden of coverage for small groups
The over employed with 3 jobs working 60 hours a week still have no coverage due to the "part-time" scam that is pulled on them
The under-employed are denied full time hours in order to deny them benefits
The economically over-burdened American is one large medical crisis away from bankruptcy and foreclosure
The people with chronic illnesses are filtered out of coverage due to immoral pre-existing clauses and wait periods

This is a POCKETBOOK ISSUE that hits ALL American pocketbooks except those of the extremely wealthy and those like our very own Reps and Sens who all have government paid healthcare for life and can blithely wash their hands of our "little" lives while they try to figure out how to keep their health industry gravy trains running while still appearing to be "concerned".

[stopbush]

1. Everything you said is true.

[aquamarina]

2. I'd also like to add that being employed should have

nothing whatsoever to do with one's ability to have health care.

[blaze]

3. exactly! nt

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

4. Exactly. It has nothing to do with what should be a basic American RIGHT. nt

[ChairmanAgnostic]

41. more true than ever.

gawd, are things fucked up in our country, or what?
And now they want to block the release of photos?

Is it Obama's intention to piss off his supporters?

[tavalon]

43. Yep, it's a form of indentured slavery

[driver8]

5. Great post -- recommended!

You hit the nail on the head with this one!

[EFerrari]

6. People are losing family members, jobs and homes over this.

You bet those privileged idiots underestimated this.

[Ocracoker16]

7. Excellent Post

How many people have never been ill and had to encounter the American health care system? This is not a special interest topic. Healthcare reform is crucial.

[eridani]

21. Unfortunately, 85% of the population

5% accounts for half of all health care costs, and 15% for 85% of costs. The 85% who account for 15% of the costs aren't expensively sick, are likely to be employed, and don't care if the minority is killed off by unaffordable health care.

[Bluenorthwest]

22. That is only true of the minority who are idiots

that can not understand that we all age, and we are all vulnerable to injury. They also assume that their children will be always perfect, never in need of more than they can afford.

[eridani]

54. It isn't always idiocy. If you don't have health problems, there are plenty of other worries

--amd distractionw that keep you from thinking much about the subject.

[Hepburn]

8. K&R....

...I am of the opinion, and have been so for a VERY long time that:

The right to medical care should NOT be governed by MONEY. It is a right of human dignity!

I have supported socialized medicine for years and years...from the time I was in teens (back in the 1960s) and saw the devastation caused by one of my mother's friend suffering from brain cancer. She eventually died ~~ but the fucking medical bills lived on and took a live of their own. And this was back in the 1960s before the problem became mega magnified over the years.

Fuck insurance companies ~~ they are EVIL...they make a profit off the ill and injured and the do it in the MOST immoral ways possible.

[bvar22]

28. Every other industrialized country in the World agree with you....

...that access to Health Care is a basic Human Right.

Our well paid off "Centrist" Democrats are now telling us that "Americans will just have to settle for less."

[tnlefty]

9. I think that you left out a group.

Insured, but damned near bankrupted because of an illness that required extended, expensive treatment that the insurance company fought against paying for. That's me and my family.

Insurance companies who fight against paying for such simple illnesses as strep throat in children. Physicals, well-baby care? Forget about it. And Blue Cross and Blue Shield in TN has a nasty habit of paying claims then 2 - 3 yrs. down the road after payment, 'perfomed an audit' of what they paid for and charging back to the physician, and it's charged back to the insured.

Oh yeah, I'm sick of BCBS and I would run away from them as fast as I could, if I only could.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

11. You're right. The group you describe is a large one

It's the group that Sicko was all about - the insured and it's still not adequate. The clawbacks you describe are certainly a dirty little secret as is the practice of authorizing something and then saying, sorry, we changed our minds.

There are more clusters of circumstances than could possibly be described in one post or even one movie or one book.We all just live our lives day to day until one day we are irreparably changed forever due to a brush with medical misfortune. Then begins our journey down the path of the insurance jungle.

[tnlefty]

17. Yep. The best that a team of physicians could determine I was in

the wrong place at the wrong time and, wait for it.....breathed. I'm sure that it was my fault as humans who take personal responsibility don't have to breathe.

Let that sink in well, all that I did was breathe and I got a nasty fungal infection (Blastomycosis?). I was misdiagnosed for a year and by the time that I was diagnosed I was in the hospital for pain management and further testing because it was eating up my bones and affecting my heart. From the simple act of breathing.

[Ocracoker16]

15. I am part of that group myself

I have what is supposedly decent insurance. I have BCBS through my mother's employer. Both my mom and I have chronic health problems which require expensive treatments. We feel like we are fighting a war with BCBS. We get atleast 2 or 3 envelopes in the mail from them every day. They are always finding something that they claim they don't cover. Then you have to call them up to find out why, because they just print some several digit code on the statement. They bill you for it right away so that you are forced to fork over large sums of money. Fortunately, you can appeal and you might get the money or some part of it back. However, they make it really hard to appeal and they review your appeal at their leisure which means that it takes along time to get reimbursed. It gets expensive having to pay so much out of pocket even if you think you might get your money back in 6 months.

I am glad that my mother is a lawyer and she understands the language they use. She is also a very persistent person. She spends several hours a week on appealing rejected claims. People shouldn't be expected to understand these statements that use an unfamiliar language and they shouldn't have to give of their limited time to fight the insurance company over bills that the insurer ends up paying back. The red tape is a menace.

[tnlefty]

16. I'm sorry that you and your Mom have chronic health conditions.

I just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and breathed. My bigger point is that the insured pays part of the premium as does the employer and if the greedy CEO's of insurance companies didn't hire people to deny claims so that the greedy bastards at the top could leave with platinum parachutes, then we'd be taken care of when and as needed. It shouldn't take someone with a law degree like your Mom to have health care services. And why should your Mom have to spend several hours per week appealing rejected claims?!!? ::crazy: This is exactly what's wrong.

Take care. :hi:

[RagAss]

19. They're evil....the face of evil itself....they need a "correction".

[annabanana]

10. Also people in horrible, abusive relationships who have "pre-existing conditions"

or other health issues... They are stuck.

[Gold Metal Flake]

12. I haven't even seen one single-payer-related bumper sticker.

Until the demonstrations look like France and happen every day in one city or another, the congress will accept the ins. industry's promised "savings" and it will be business as usual for another 20 years.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

13. I disagree. People are passionate on this issue due to desperation.

It doesn't "just" concern a few million statistically invisible lower income families and individuals. It also concerns many more millions who see themselves as precariously hanging onto that precious "middle-class" label and who make up a large percentage of the voting public. Healthcare is the issue that makes one downwardly mobile with the caprices of nature. It doesn't matter how smart you are,what school you went to, what positions you have held, or what subdivision you live in.

Illness. Accidents. Chronic. Acute. All are "The Great Leveler".

[Fumesucker]

14. Fuck Ralph Nader..

And the single payer horse he rode in on.

:eyes:

[fascisthunter]

25. WTF are you talking about? This Issue is Much Larger than...

any one politician.

[nichomachus]

31. It's not larger than the people

who fund the anti-Nader campaign. You have one group opposing just health care by calling it Socialist and probably the same group attacking it from the other end by appealing to the irrational hatred of Ralph Nader. It's called "playing both ends against the middle."

[fascisthunter]

35. oh... I know

;-)

Just turning the idiocy on its head.

[kenfrequed]

30. What the heck are you talking about?

I am confused. Is this sarchasm, or more stupid Nader-hating?

If you really wanted to banish Nader forever then the best thing you could do is to actually placate those liberal progressives that might be tempted to protest-vote for him. This stupid 'castigate the left' BS fails and backfires every friggin time.

[nichomachus]

32. Unless

you're trying to get things to backfire . . . . . just sayin'

[madfloridian]

18. Excellent post.

To see the committee laugh as doctors are escorted out shows a deep lack of understanding.

[Triana]

20. They sure as Hell underestimated mine...

...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5643857&mesg_id=5643857

[cascadiance]

23. And those who have older relatives/parents with expensive illnesses...

... that even can't provide for all of the costs associated with their care to have a decent life. They see how NECESSARY that medicare is in that instance, or they'd be totally sunk with the expenses that their loved ones are dealing with. Even then, many are almost caught between wishing that their parents/relatives would die so that they no longer have the burden of the expenses of their care, and wanting them to live longer as a loved member of their family.

This affects more than those directly affected by illnesses.

[southernyankeebelle]

24. I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE HAVEN'T -

ORGANIZED A RALLY IN WASHINGTON D.C.. I AM TO OLD NOW BUT THE PEOPLE THAT ARE UNEMPLOYED AND DO NOT HAVE HEALTH CARE SHOULD BE OUT THERE PROTESTING. IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN UNLESS THE PEOPLE GET OUT IN THE STREETS AND FIGHT FOR IT. OF COURSE PEACEFULLY.

[quidam56]

26. See what is deemed, defended and supported in Tennessee as THE ACCEPTABLE STANDARDS OF HEALTH CARE.

http://www.wisecountyissues.com/?p=62

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

27. I Think Most Here Have Far More Overestimated It.

Sure, just looking at responses and threads in GD you'd think the public had its pitchforks out ready to decimate the pols due to single payer etc. But that isn't reality. In reality, even if a tracking poll says many support it, their support doesn't mean activism. They overall probably couldn't care less about which option they're discussing.

Until public perception overall changes and people truly do speak out in mass numbers with enough influence, the whole single payer argument is moot and a waste of time. The public ain't anywhere near that level yet, and it is DU that is by far overestimating the anger than it is pols underestimating it, with all due respect.

[CTyankee]

36. They think they'll get LESS health care with a government program.

We don't need to be regarded as crazy people with pitchforks. We need to say the magic words "Medicare for everyone." One thing the pols do NOT underestimate is how much Americans like Medicare. If we use that for our mantra we'll get lots more support from people. Like Social Security, Medicare is the 3rd rail of American politics...

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

37. Of course that's possible (overestimation) given that this is a Democratic forum

so it's already heavily populated with informed liberal/progressive types, but I never limited my posts/comments to strictly single payer anyway. That's what I would greatly prefer, but I would be willing to compromise with health reform that involves a true "public option" which I think will be the gateway to eventual single payer. The insurance companies themselves have all but admitted that they could not effectively compete with a true public option plan. That is why I am being extremely vigilant to efforts to gut the public option as is happening

Having said all that, Americans in general are not stupid in matters regarding healthcare. Most Americans families have been personally touched by the inadequacies of our present system. If the Congress and Obama try to pass a healthcare reform lite bill, they WILL face a giant backlash. This was an issue addressed over and over both in the primary and in the GE. It was discussed in debates and in Town Halls and for many many people it was THE decisive issue. I personally know Republicans who voted Dem because they felt McCain didn't have a healthcare plan.

Actually, I am pleasantly surprised at how strong the single payer movement is. It's a lot stronger than I would have predicted. But, as I said in the OP, people do care and do get involved with pocketbook issues. You and I will have to wait and see if I've overestimated or if the pols underestimated. Obama and Pelosi said they will have a bill ready for a vote in July and then we'll find out.

[RaleighNCDUer]

44. with all due respect, when the public comes to realize that the

'reforms' they are talking about now won't change a thing, they will be angry.

If DU seems angrier than the general public, it is only because DU is better informed than the general public.

[valerief]

29. The pols know. They don't care. nt

[DU GrovelBot]

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[OwnedByFerrets]

34. I honestly dont think they care if we are angry.

They are beholden to their masters, the corporations.

[BonnieJW]

38. If I hear one more repub

say that we don't want rationed health care like in Canada, I'm going to scream, "WHAT DO YOU THINK WE HAVE NOW?????? Your employer pays a huge chunk for health insurance, you pay the other huge chunk, plus the co-pays, plus the contributions to your HSA and then you need a procedure and you're turned down by the insurance company because it's a) not necessary, b) it's because of a pre-existing condition, or c) it's not covered under your policy. Even people WITH insurance can't get medical care.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

39. I know. They say, "But our healthcare will be rationed and we'll have no control"

That's exactly the case right now. The health insurance companies do the rationing by specifying treatments, oking some, denying others, PLUS they have lifetime caps - what is that if not rationing? They control what doctors you are allowed to see and what hospitals you can go to. So in essence, no one is giving up anything that they haven't already given up long ago!

[Enthusiast]

50. But "they" are speaking with

a megaphone because of a media that is favorable to their position.

Our society has completely ignored the arguments in favor of socialized medicine. Yet a majority now want single payer. Things in healthcare must be fucked beyond belief.

[GreenTea]

40. Absolutely! It's far more stronger & angry than the media that the Dem leaders listen to like sheep

are led to believe....and of course the corporate media is republican owned the same people against single payer Universal Health Care for ALL - paid for with OUR tax dollars....

So what would one expect, except that the corporate media distorting the true anger & pain all over the country and the idiot sheep Dem leaders as always believing that same controlling republican media....pitiful for all of us!

[winyanstaz]

42. I so think its time to march...

We need some leaders on this...a date..a plan..something!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

45. They certainly have

I made a comment on the New York Times website, noting that if you put the comments about health care in the order of Readers' Recommendations, you found overwhelming support for single payer and overwhelming hatred for private insurance companies. I then posed the question of whether the NY Times editorial board was so insulated in the upscale Manhattan bubble that they didn't understand this or whether they were beholden to health insurance companies as advertisers.

They didn't print my comment.

[Beavker]

46. I'm sorry but CNBC disagrees with you.

Wait, are you a Democrat? So yes, they disagree with you. CNBC and Wall Street hates scumbags like the average American.

[defendandprotect]

47. I hope you're right and I hope that DU'ers continue to move on Single Payer -- !!!

IMO, they are resting on the fact that they have always been able to control

Americans with propaganda about how great we are --- how great capitalism is -- !!!

Those days are over --

OTOH, they have made protesting very difficult ---

Keep hammering Democrats -- we do have money and they need it !!!

Fight for the FAIR ELECTIONS NOW ACT -- HR 1826 . . . LEGISLATION IN THE WORKS ...

THEY ARE TRYING TO GET SENATORS AND REPS TO SIGN PLEDGES TO SUPPORT IT --

AFTER THAT, WE CAN GET IRV VOTING AND BUST UP THIS TWO PARTY DANCE!!!

[DatManFromNawlins]

48. Wrong.

Most Americans are gainfully employed and the idea of the government stepping in and taking control of their health care is an idea that is frightening to many.

Some Democrats forget what the major factors were in the Republicans winning control of Congress in the first place.

Hints:

(A) The Democratic congress didn't listen to their constituents because they assumed were entrenched in power, and
(B) the people were scared to death that Hillary was going to alter their health care without their consent, and moved to make sure that Bill didn't have the power to make that happen.

For most Americans, Obama will have to prove to them that the cost of healthcare will decrease from what they currently pay and that they will have the same options currently available to them. He will also have to explain what's going to happen to the jobs of all the insurance salesmen and managers and directors, not to mention a large portion of the medical billing community, because these people will largely be out of work when that happens.

Whichever chief executive attempts to enact single payer will do so at the cost of his own political career, and likely, the political careers of quite a number of his own party members. People are willing to deal with some pain from financial industry fat cats because it doesn't affect anyone they personally know. They aren't going to be willing to see a bunch of people in their own towns disenfranchised.

I'm FOR single payer, but those are the facts.

[Enthusiast]

51. YOU are wrong!

Hillary's proposals were a long time ago. Since then many families have had serious problems due to piss poor insurance or no insurance. The attitude is now completely different. A majority of Americans now want socialized medicine. Go peddle your right wing talking points somewhere else.

[DatManFromNawlins]

53. Step outside the echo chamber, little one.

Hillary's proposals were just as valid back then as they are today.

Are you that fucking clueless to think that no families back then had serious problems due to piss poor or no insurance? What, did you buy your propaganda in bulk at Costco? Do you log on every morning, plug your brain into DU, and put aside all rational thought and expectations?

The attitude back in the 90s is exactly the same today. The average American, today, has private health insurance. The average American today, has a healthy distrust of government. Why is an auto worker's job sacred even though their positions have proven to be untenable, but an insurance rep's job is an acceptable loss? Is it because insurance reps aren't unionized?

You go out and ask the average American if, for exchange for the miracle of socialized medicine, the cost of which is anomalous, they are willing to fire millions of Americans. They'll lose their jobs, possibly their homes, and perhaps even their families, but at least they'll have health insurance, right? Why not turn a recession into a depression overnight? That'll get the people on your side!

It isn't a right wing talking point when it's the truth.

Like I said, I'm FOR single payer. I also think basic property insurance should be single payer so that we can get rid of scams from companies like A**s**** who won't pay for flood damage because a hurricane ripped off your fucking roof and your stuff got wet, even if you had 6 feet of flood water inside your home. I also want a government backed mortgage similar to student loans where you CAN'T lose your home due to unemployment, but MUST pay the loan off.

I want all these things. But I am also willing to talk and listen to everyday people, not just the people on DU who can scream the loudest. I don't give a fuck about spectacle, I care about practicality. And a single payer plan, right now, is completely fucking impractical given the current financial condition of this country. I want to do those things, but I want to do it when the economy can absorb the hit. That ain't now.

If you don't like it? Like I give a shit. That's why we both have a vote. Go waste your time on a fresh mouthbreathing simpleton in a Che t-shirt, because you aren't going to sway me with your pathetic attempt at rationality.

[Enthusiast]

55. Little one? What an ass.

[onestepforward]

49. I agree. k&r

[Kweli4Real]

52. I just had a conversation with a co-worker ...

about healthcare and the 40% premimium increase we will experience July 1st. I told her about HR 676 and she had never heard of it. I explained that it makes no sense for everyone to allow for profit companies to take money out of your check for weeks, months, years, so that if/when they get sick the for profit company can pay the doctor ... why not have the same amount taken out of my check by a non-profit company, e.g., the government, and have them pay the doctor?

Makes no sense that people don't get this.