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AG Eric Holder said : “If somebody was tortured to death, clearly a crime would have occurred."

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:04 PM
Original message
AG Eric Holder said : “If somebody was tortured to death, clearly a crime would have occurred."
E-mail from Robert Wexler today:


Today, I participated in Judiciary Committee hearings where Attorney General Eric Holder said definitively: “If somebody was tortured to death, clearly a crime would have occurred.”

My confidence in our Justice Department and American justice system was redeemed today while watching and listening to Attorney General Holder. There is now no doubt we are on the proper road toward re-establishing a nation that protects our citizens and respects human rights.

As the New York Times reported yesterday, Lawrence Wilkerson, the former chief of staff to Secretary of State Colin Powell, testified to Congress that more than 100 detainees died in U.S. custody in Iraq and Afghanistan. CBS is reporting that “roughly a quarter of those deaths have been investigated as possible abuse by U.S. personnel.”

Contrary to the story told when the Abu Ghraib photos emerged, we now have sworn testimony to the House of Representatives and the Senate of a systematic and deliberate approval of abusive techniques.

Two weeks ago, my colleagues and I introduced HRes 383 – which would set up a Select Committee with subpoena power to investigate Bush Administration conduct and to issue detailed recommendations on how to reform our national security laws so what happened in recent years – never happens again.

Please help us spread the word – contribute to our outreach here.

I have called on Attorney General Holder to appoint a Special Prosecutor to commence an investigation into torture allegations. This is a vital step toward reestablishing our national security firmly under the rule of law.

Congress -- and every American -- deserve to know what the government has done in their name. More importantly, all of our citizens deserve to be involved in and informed about the debate over the limits of governmental power as we move forward to thoroughly revise our national security laws - including the Patriot Act - to ensure that our nation honors human rights and abides by the law.

Lawrence Wilkenson further stated, “what I have learned is that as the administration authorized harsh interrogation in April and May of 2002 -- well before the Justice Department had rendered any legal opinion.”

Earlier this week, Philip Zelikow, former counselor at the State Department and a trusted adviser and deputy to former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, revealed the Bush Administration instructed him to destroy a memo challenging the legality of the interrogation tactics.

We must immediately appoint a Special Prosecutor and approve an investigative committee with the teeth to get answers. Answers – and more importantly, accountability is long overdue.

More soon,

Congressman Robert Wexler
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you, and this is why
cheney's been seizing the spotlight with the collaberation of the corporatemedia.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. But if 98 somebodies were tortured to death, all bets are off
There's no way these motherfuckers are going to do the right thing without constant, intense public pressure. I really wish I didn't feel that way, but there it is. Damn.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
25. Sarcasm alert... Many more died under Nazi interogation! n/t
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. By Verdict Of Armed Forces Coroners, Ma'am, Some Two Dozen Such Deaths Have Occured
That is common, public knowledge, dating back several years in public prints.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Well then, he's setting himself up to do something about it.
That's the only conclusion I can come to. Sir! :)
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Indeed, Ma'am
And whether intentionally or not, since after that statement, this will be fed to him from more directions than it is safe to contemplate....
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. You bet, I'm sure we'll be hearing about it.
But I don't believe he doesn't know this would create a reaction.

Calculated, imo.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. “If somebody was tortured ...clearly a crime would have occurred."
"Death" isn't need for it to be a war crime.



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spindrifter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Let's take it to a comparison with our own criminal laws.
When death occurs, there may be a crime.
When grievous bodily injury occurs, there may be a crime.
When some bodily injury occurs, there may be a crime.
When no bodily injury occurs, there may be a crime.

Each depends on the totality of the circumstances.

Usually, when the person doing the potential crime is performing an illegal act to begin with, there IS a CRIME.
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
40. True enough...
...but the fact is, when death occurs under interrogation, that draws the line rather starkly, meeting even the high bar drawn by the infamous "torture memos" written by Yoo et al.

So, AG Holder, what are you waiting for? Let's get to it.
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spindrifter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
6. It drives me nuts when some
so-called pundit--conservative, military, whatever, trots out the reference to the 9-11 deaths as the sacrosanct justification for any torturing that we have or may do in the future. We should not be allowing them to get away with it.
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. People are missing the big issue. The fight to fight is getting Dawn Johnson confirmed
The Repukes know this. Until that happens. Nothing will happen on this torture stuff. She is the most important person in the Justice Department.

Liberals should be outraged. Yet I've barely heard a peep.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. What can I do to get Dawn Johnsen confirmed? NT
NT
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Reid is the holdup. Shes already been voted out of committee.
Just bring it to the floor
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. If it was just Reid, don't you think Holder and the prez would ask
him to do something?


:wtf: and that applies to everyone!
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #21
28. Holder said on the Hill last week. How it important for her to be confirmed ASAP
Reid is a wimp. All they have to do is threaten a filibuster. And he puts up no kind of fight. He's suppose to fight for Obama's nominees
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. You blame everything on Reid. Blame it on Holder and Obama.
That's where I'm at.

There's hopefully a method to everyone's madness I'm not getting. You aren't either.
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Oh please. He's the leader of the Senate
Edited on Fri May-15-09 01:43 AM by Thrill
Blame Holder and Obama for him not being able to run his show with 59 seats? Give me a break. Leahy has done his job getting her through committee. All that is left is the pick to be brought to the floor for Cloture and then a full vote. And he has yet to do that. He is the person who schedules the votes.

Blaming Obama and Holder is laughable. Holder was on the hill last week, pleading for her to be confirmed.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
24. Here you go, sign the petition
https://secure.pfaw.org/site/SPageServer?pagename=rjc_doj_nominees&autologin=true&JServSessionIdr010=vizxg23ww1.app305b

In addition to Dawn Johnsen the other DOJ nominees that need to be confirmed are:

David Kris, National Security Division

Tony West, Civil Division

Lanny Breuer, Criminal Division

Christine Varney, Antitrust Division

Ronald H. Weich, Office of Legislative Affairs
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. You rock! Have you tried posting this by itself? I'd rec'd. nt
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Your threads are better received than mine.
My threads plummet.

I've posted this in other threads, trying to explain why things are not happening as quickly as folks want. Some folks pay attention to it and others say I'm just making excuses. You know, Obama should fix everything and do it NOW. *holdingbreathstompingfeet*

If you want to post a thread I'll recommend it. :hi:
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. This doesn't bode well for Supreme Court and other Judge nominees
This is just ridiculous when you have 59 seats.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. I agree, it doesn't bode well for the SCOTUS nomination
and/or any other nomination - judges, the US Attorneys, etc.

Also compare the media reaction or inaction - they screamed when Bush's nominees were blocked - I don't think the dems blocked his nominees from the get go the way the repugs have blocked Obamas.

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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #24
37. Thanks, I signed (NT)
NT
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. thank you
:hi:
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I'm aware, and very outraged. I bet Holder and Obama are, too.
Dems need to challenge a filibuster if that's what it takes. We need her.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #7
23. Not just Dawn Johnsen
There are other nominations that have been stalled, like the head of the Criminal Division (the division of the DOJ that investigates and prosecutes the crimes)

David Kris, National Security Division

Tony West, Civil Division

Lanny Breuer, Criminal Division

Christine Varney, Antitrust Division

Ronald H. Weich, Office of Legislative Affairs

https://secure.pfaw.org/site/SPageServer?pagename=rjc_doj_nominees&autologin=true&JServSessionIdr010=vizxg23ww1.app305b

Normally these posts are filled and then the heads of these divisions help vet the names suggested as nominees for the US Attorneys assigned in the districts in each state.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. merh, that's 2. If you won't compile what's going on, I will. But
thank you for bringing this up, and it needs talking about.

Tonight, maybe not, but tomorrow? YES!
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #29
35. go for it - your threads get the attention this needs
please post away and I'll be there to K&R as needed.

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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
8. Iraqi general Abed Hamed Mowhoush was suffocated to death.
==================================================================================================
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abed_Hamed_Mowhoush


Documents revealed during these proceedings confirmed that Mowhoush was physically abused and met his death at the hands of military interrogators:

"It was inside the sleeping bag that the 56-year-old detainee took his last breath through broken ribs, lying on the floor beneath a U.S. soldier in Interrogation Room 6 in the western Iraqi desert. Two days before, a secret CIA-sponsored group of Iraqi paramilitaries, working with Army interrogators, had beaten Mowhoush nearly senseless, using fists, a club and a rubber hose, according to classified documents."<4>

...On January 21, 2006, an American military jury convicted (CWO Lewis E. Welshofer Jr.,) of negligent homicide in the death of Mowhoush. A military jury ordered a reprimand and forfeiture of $6,000 in pay, and restricted him to his home, office and church for two months.
==================================================================================================

No jail time.

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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. He must be a good upstanding Christian. They restricted him to church, office, home.
Doing Gawd's will in the desert.

Lord, give me the strength to beat this captive Iraqi to death so that I might be a better servant of yours. In Jesus, the Prince of Peace's name I pray. Amen.

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. "No jail time." For this? CIA, Army, Iraqis, who else? Jeebus.
We need to know who thought this was okay, and why it's never been a big deal. No jail time?!

Two days before, a secret CIA-sponsored group of Iraqi paramilitaries, working with Army interrogators, had beaten Mowhoush nearly senseless, using fists, a club and a rubber hose, according to classified documents."
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
15. I predict that it will be the one who tortured
who who will prosecuted. Not the designers. Bush admin's defense will be that the torture went outside the bounds of the guidelines.


I have news for Holder. If some one was tortured (period), clearly a crime would have occurred.
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. hear hear.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
17. Error: You've already recommended that thread.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
19. Many have been tortured to death
And they weren't terrorists.

I won't hold my breath waiting for this or any administration to hold BushCo responsible. The USA I knew and loved is dead.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
22. What folks on DU have failed to realize is, the right is obstructing
justice. They have not confirmed Obama's nominee for the head of the Criminal Division of the DOJ.

One would think you need to have that post filled if you wish to pursue criminal charges against the murderers and the torturers.

Lanny Breuer has been nominated to head the Criminal Division of the DOJ but he has yet to be confirmed.

Sign the Petition to get Breuer and the other Obama nominees confirmed.
https://secure.pfaw.org/site/SPageServer?pagename=rjc_doj_nominees&autologin=true&JServSessionIdr010=vizxg23ww1.app305b


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DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
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deacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
36. Everyone KNOWS there was torture. What we want to know is what
you are going to do about it???

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D23MIURG23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
39. k&r
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