If This Torture Issue Withers Away, Is It Game Over For All of Us?

[Mr. Ected]

Since 2001, we have had multiple governmental abuses for which we the people have demanded redress. Until now, in spite of our frustration and anger, we have been able to reconcile, in some perverse fashion, the oversight and deflection of these transgressions by pinning them all on the neofascist Bush administration.

If Obama or the DOJ fails to pursue the charges against Cheney & Co. for its admitted and documented torture, is it time to stick a fork in it? I hope, of course, that we are not left to face this conclusion. But if we cannot absolve ourselves of the stain of human rights violations, have we not destroyed the very fabric that distinguishes us from them? Democrats acting like Republicans; Americans acting like the Taliban. It pains me deeply.

[ShortnFiery]

1. Yes, and the next time a Republican wins the Executive Branch, ALL OUTSPOKEN AMERICANS are

potential "enemy combatants."

[deacon]

2. It is not fading away actually. It is being muddled. The depth of the weakness in the obama

administration exposed over torture allegations shows enormous lack of courage.

The very idea, the bullshit concept of moving forward and change comes to an abrupt stop because of this highly ignorant approach.

The reality is quite simple. Deal with it. Don't be a punk. This stuff (torture) happened. Deal with it.

[Echo In Light]

3. That fateful time was up long ago. We're merely playing out the string.

The upshot is, is that eventually it'll likely get bad enough that many of the "necessary illusions" and propaganda-induced perceptions of reality will crack and splinter, and that will by default force many to put their cards on the table and decide exactly who stands where: for and with humanity, or with corporate power/tyranny.

[Lint Head]

4. We actually have COWARDS running the country.

When cowards are leading failure is assured.

Powerful people need to go to jail. People like Cheney do not deserve the respect he is receiving.
Someone needs to disrespect him, to confront him a personally. He should be demeaned and cornered. People are afraid to call him out on his outright lies. His lies have led to the deaths of innocent people.
:dem:

[Mr. Ected]

5. Cheney's Constant Appearances on TV These Days Have Coalesced His Followers

Had Obama led with this discussion, rather than allowing Cheney to frame the argument, he would have added an element of shame and righteousness to the battle.

Now, it's Cheney in the lead, and Obama questioning whether he has enough political cover to pursue prosecution.

This is so typical of the Democratic Party of late.

[ShortnFiery]

8. God FORBID, but if we get hit hard in another terrorist attack, Cheney's loyal followers will

make up the ranks of the 21 Century's SS. :scared: :nuke:

FIRST they will come for the Muslims ... then they will come for the Liberals ... then <perhaps you>?

[Demeter]

12. What? All two of them?

Daughter Liz and Nancy Pelosi do not a movement make. If you could even FIND W, I don't think he'd join that parade, even if they wanted him....

[bdamomma]

15. cowards of the highest degree, can one repig pull Cheney

off his pedestal, why are they so cowardly to confront this POS man Cheney.

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. Maybe because of the CIA's proven capacity for overthrowing

national governments and assassinating opposition?

We may be closer to a military/CIA coup today than at any time since the businessmen's plot of the 30s. Much of the leadership that would back a coup are at threat of criminal prosecution for their activities over the past many years - the LEAST of which is the torture of a few foreigners.

I really think much of the 'go slow' is to stop them from panicking and initiating an attempt at overthrowing the government.

[KharmaTrain]

6. And It's Withering Away How???

I saw it wither in 2004...instead of being a major issue in the campaign, the corporate media gladly absovled the booosh regime claiming a "few bad apples" and led the public demonization of Lindy England and her boyfriend. That was sufficient for them...time to get back to making profits and enabling the regime. Any questioning was considered being "unpatriotic"...ya know "we are at war" (despite no declaration)

There were real journalists like Sy Hersh who was castigated in the media...called a kook and other names, James Risen was "rewarded" for his hard work by having the FBI (and probably the CIA) tapping his phones and trying to bring a case of treason against him. There were others as well such as Jane Meyer and Dana Priest...stories that were ignored by the corporate media.

Remember, the boooosh regime put a huge shield of "Executive Privilidge" that not only put a cone of silence over the actions within the regime, but kept those who were no longer a part of it silent. It wasn't until January 20th that this shiled was lifted and the rumors and leaks that came out about torture began to show up in documentation form...real evidence vs. speculation.

There's more on the way. Not just the Abu Grahrab photos but many other stories and investigations that were done under the cover of "state security" and "executive privilidge" that are now coming to light. The fact that the cheney cabal is so hard at work trying to spin their side of torture is indication that this story isn't fading...if anything, it's going to gain more traction. They're out trying to bat it down now...try to intimidate those they think they can still reach and play jury nullification through the media. If they were so sure this story would fade, they'd come up with another distraction, not keep the focus on who knew and what. It's a desperation game...and one they are sure to lose.

I'm in wait and see mode on how AG Holder and others do act on this matter. There are many chapters in this sad story to play out...and it's not up to President Obama or Holder to be the catalyst. There are ongoing Congressional investigation that can now start moving forward rather than battle subpoeans that were being ignored. There are sure to be law suits, and those could be the most revealing and damaging.

The real sad problem are the polls showing around 50% of people wanting to "move forward"...if this number falls, thus will be a louder call for action, including from the Executive. In many ways we'll probably have cheney to thank as his blunderbuss may be the catalyst for establishing an independent counsel or commission that is needed to start the real investigation and possible prosecutions. It also should prompt international action...war crimes have been admitted to and it's obvious that a true accounting is beyond our partisan political system.

Stay tuned....

[kentuck]

7. It has the potential to split the Democratic Party...

unfortunately. However, it is not a simple solution when you take on the CIA and the former Republican VP. It doesn't matter if we know that justice must be served, it is more of a political hurdle than a legal one. Just ask Nancy Pelosi...

[Demeter]

14. Where Have You Been? The Democratic Party Is ALREADY Split

And the kiss-and-make-up for the election will only last so long.

If you want a true reconciliation within the Party, then the GOP and BushCo especially will have to answer to charges.

[shadowknows69]

9. If justice and full disclosure isn't shown, at least to journalists, on this

Then I think we have finally become the monster we claim we want to destroy.

[cali]

10. no. it's not the end if Obama's admin doesn't prosecute

anymore than it was the end for Spain or France when those countries didn't prosecute their own in the 60s and 70s. From the historical perspective, it's unlikely that there will be prosecutions of bushco under Obama.

[Demeter]

11. It's NOT Withering Away, Never Fear

A veritable tsunami is growing which will wash away the Bush legacy and cleanse the country. Unfortunately, I don't think Obama will be able to surf it. He's rapidly going under already, thanks to Geithner, Summers and Goldman Sachs.

[Mr. Ected]

17. I've Been Let Down So Often, I've Become Extraordinarily Skeptical

I want to give our elected officials the benefit of the doubt, but I must admit, I expect the worst. I pray they prove me wrong.

[sinkingfeeling]

13. Yes. A country without any morals, ethics, or commitment to its own laws, is toast.