Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

I am unaware of any situation since Viet Nam when the CIA told the truth.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 10:56 AM
Original message
I am unaware of any situation since Viet Nam when the CIA told the truth.
Their entire history is a ceaseless litany of lies to the American people and to its leaders. Their history also includes a consistent taint of breaking the law and even treason in the pursuit of extreme authoritarianism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
knowbody0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. and we have been programed to believe
they are like James Bond spies, clever, courageous, etc, but most of all INVISIBLE.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Hell, we ran the most "successful" school in the world,
TEACHING our client states how to torture.

We are seen globally as hypocrites on this issue anyway, so equivocating and dodging this issue now that it is open could well ruin whatever international good will Obama had begun to restore.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
knowbody0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I really believe that all of our "secrets" are about to
be exposed. thank technology, the globe shrank, and like a cancer, truth is spreading.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Does any sane person want people "licensed to kill" running around?
Isn't that what Cheney's "assassination squad" was all about?

While I too enjoyed the escapist James Bond flicks ... and Pussy Galore ... the premise is disturbing, to say the least.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
knowbody0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. yeah, I remember
"ya gotta match?"

"Pussy Galore"

dude, the collective spirit is calling, can you feel it? like little sparks igniting all over the planet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bottomtheweaver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Yes -- in fact the Bond movies are basically part of the propaganda.
Even the last two, which are more serious and less cartoon-like than the earlier ones. Here are some of the ideas they all sell:

1. MI6 and CIA - good; Ruskies, commies, and third-world terrists - bad.

2. The ends justify the means.

3. Politicians who want to reign in the spies are corrupt, deceived, and/or out of touch.

4. No one is more virtuous, loyal, or self-sacrificing than spies.

5. The really good spies can't even follow their own rules let alone any law, and shouldn't have to.

6. Etc etc etc.

Even propaganda can be entertaining, and whether Ian Fleming's original purpose was to promote covert operations or not, that's what the Bond books and films do. And I think Fleming was a spy in any case.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
3. Thank you for the dose of sanity. Way too many people are way too ignorant about the CIA.
Jesus Christ people, read some history!

It's just intellectual laziness. There are loads of DUers here who are longtime students of the CIA (myself for 20 yrs), and we know this is PAR FOR THE COURSE.

This isn't "conspiracy theory" territory, the historical facts have been declassified for a long time - people need to acquaint themselves with the facts.

I guess it's just a whole lot easier to take aim at one of our own because some are pissed at her for something else.

Can we get back to the real war criminals and torturers anytime soon?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
8. Harry S Truman brought that up just after President Kennedy was assassinated.
Truman wrote an op-ed for The Washington Post:



Harry Truman Writes:

Limit CIA Role
To Intelligence


By Harry S Truman
Copyright, 1963, by Harry S Truman
The Washington Post
December 22, 1963 - page A11


INDEPENDENCE, MO., Dec. 21 — I think it has become necessary to take another look at the purpose and operations of our Central Intelligence Agency—CIA. At least, I would like to submit here the original reason why I thought it necessary to organize this Agency during my Administration, what I expected it to do and how it was to operate as an arm of the President.

I think it is fairly obvious that by and large a President's performance in office is as effective as the information he has and the information he gets. That is to say, that assuming the President himself possesses a knowledge of our history, a sensitive understanding of our institutions, and an insight into the needs and aspirations of the people, he needs to have available to him the most accurate and up-to-the-minute information on what is going on everywhere in the world, and particularly of the trends and developments in all the danger spots in the contest between East and West. This is an immense task and requires a special kind of an intelligence facility.

Of course, every President has available to him all the information gathered by the many intelligence agencies already in existence. The Departments of State, Defense, Commerce, Interior and others are constantly engaged in extensive information gathering and have done excellent work.

But their collective information reached the President all too frequently in conflicting conclusions. At times, the intelligence reports tended to be slanted to conform to established positions of a given department. This becomes confusing and what's worse, such intelligence is of little use to a President in reaching the right decisions.

Therefore, I decided to set up a special organization charged with the collection of all intelligence reports from every available source, and to have those reports reach me as President without department “treatment” or interpretations.

I wanted and needed the information in its “natural raw” state and in as comprehensive a volume as it was practical for me to make full use of it. But the most important thing about this move was to guard against the chance of intelligence being used to influence or to lead the President into unwise decisions—and I thought it was necessary that the President do his own thinking and evaluating.

Since the responsibility for decision making was his—then he had to be sure that no information is kept from him for whatever reason at the discretion of any one department or agency, or that unpleasant facts be kept from him. There are always those who would want to shield a President from bad news or misjudgments to spare him from being “upset.”

For some time I have been disturbed by the way CIA has been diverted from its original assignment. It has become an operational and at times a policy-making arm of the Government. This has led to trouble and may have compounded our difficulties in several explosive areas.

I never had any thought that when I set up the CIA that it would be injected into peacetime cloak and dagger operations. Some of the complications and embarrassment I think we have experienced are in part attributable to the fact that this quiet intelligence arm of the President has been so removed from its intended role that it is being interpreted as a symbol of sinister and mysterious foreign intrigue—and a subject for cold war enemy propaganda.

With all the nonsense put out by Communist propaganda about “Yankee imperialism,” “exploitive capitalism,” “war-mongering,” “monopolists,” in their name-calling assault on the West, the last thing we needed was for the CIA to be seized upon as something akin to a subverting influence in the affairs of other people.

I well knew the first temporary director of the CIA, Adm. Souers, and the later permanent directors of the CIA, Gen. Hoyt Vandenberg and Allen Dulles. These were men of the highest character, patriotism and integrity—and I assume this is true of all those who continue in charge.

But there are now some searching questions that need to be answered. I, therefore, would like to see the CIA be restored to its original assignment as the intelligence arm of the President, and that whatever else it can properly perform in that special field—and that its operational duties be terminated or properly used elsewhere.

We have grown up as a nation, respected for our free institutions and for our ability to maintain a free and open society. There is something about the way the CIA has been functioning that is casting a shadow over our historic position and I feel that we need to correct it.

SOURCE:

http://www.maebrussell.com/Prouty/Harry%20Truman's%20CIA%20article.html



Ironic, in a way, as the WaPo is the CIA's favorite paper. It is doubtful CIA informed President Truman of that or Operation MOCKINGBIRD.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
9. There was that time early on
I think it was Rumsfeld, speaking on behalf of the intelligence community, who said that the government would be intentionally putting out wrong information and lying in order to confuse and deceive the enemy. He backtracked nearly immediately a couple of days later, but however you try to order the statements, it always works out the same: They're going to lie to deceive the enemy. So, that's 100% true. They didn't identify who the enemy is, so if they lie to us, you can draw your own conclusion and probably be correct.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Who knows when the disinformation practices started,
but under ronnie raygun it was blatantly escalated and directed at the American public in order to conceal the fascists' Iran-Contra, banking, arms and drug dealing and Central American crimes
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. Dick Cheney and Rumsfeld had to set up Office of Special Plans because
they couldn't get CIA intel analysts to fake a pretext for them, remember? I'm no fan of CIA at all but, iirc, that's what happened.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. I think the problem was more that they couldn't get them to lie quite as blatantly
or as quickly and frequently as unka dick wanted, not that they couldn't get them to lie at all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. LOL! You're probably right about Crime in Action. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Very true! It seemed understood, however, there were factions in the CIA. And that Cheney leaned
Edited on Fri May-15-09 01:54 PM by KittyWampus
heavily on career officers to come up with what he wanted or sign on to whatever scenario he presented.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tuckessee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
11. It's not just the CIA.
Has the "military" ever told the truth at any time since WW2?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. It's not just the Pentagram and CIA. It's also FBI. Remember Bruce Ivins?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheMachineWins Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. Misinformation is 90% of it, for sure
Unless a person is watching TV, then it's 100% of it. Nothing but lies, misdirections and invented arguments and tension like a poorly written afternoon soap opera.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
14. there's a difference between the CIA as an organization and individuals willing to blow the whistle
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu May 02nd 2024, 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC